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tuyop posted:Well, I'm pretty sure I'm going to take a debt-free celebration vacation to SE Asia to surf two to three months after the 0 point. Then I'll focus on paying down the car Typically people celebrate doings things after they've done them.
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Aug 19, 2011 23:49
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Tuyop is obviously thinking that when his equity in the car (its salable value) rises to the point where it meets his falling debt on the car, at that breakeven point he is "debt free". Tuyop, that's wrong. You'll only be debt free at that point if you actually sell the car and pay off the loan. Otherwise, you'll be at zero net worth. Being at zero net worth is obviously better than being at negative net worth... but it's sure not cause for celebration.
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Aug 19, 2011 23:53
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Yeah, being debt free means you do not owe anyone any money, not that you owe less than what the car is worth (or house, or whatever).
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Aug 19, 2011 23:54
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man, I'm debt free you guys! drat!
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Aug 20, 2011 00:01
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DuckConference posted:Typically people celebrate doings things after they've done them. I don't know if the car debt thing is such a big deal. He probably needs a car in some capacity, he already has it, it's his "dream car", it's fairly new, he knows the history of it, and the loan is only at 1.9%. By my bromath that means the total interest on his 25.5k car is about 1.8k. Is it really worth trying to pay off the car earlier, just to save a few hundred in interest? Or are we still talking about selling the car to get a better deal?
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Aug 20, 2011 00:03
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Psycho Crusher posted:I don't know if the car debt thing is such a big deal. He probably needs a car in some capacity, he already has it, it's his "dream car", it's fairly new, he knows the history of it, and the loan is only at 1.9%. By my bromath that means the total interest on his 25.5k car is about 1.8k. Is it really worth trying to pay off the car earlier, just to save a few hundred in interest? Or are we still talking about selling the car to get a better deal? The point isn't that he has 1.9%. The point isn't even that he is $7000 in the hole. Or that he is driving it into the ground by putting 40,000 miles a year on it. The point is he is talking about a celebratory debt free vacation at the same time he is $25000 in debt. Also don't let your bromath convince you that 1.9% allows you to buy cars you can't afford, or that interest is the largest expense in car ownership.
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Aug 20, 2011 00:12
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CornHolio posted:man, I'm debt free you guys! drat! Are you debt free using standard math or tuyop math?
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Aug 20, 2011 00:13
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Zeta Taskforce posted:The point isn't that he has 1.9%. The point isn't even that he is $7000 in the hole. Or that he is driving it into the ground by putting 40,000 miles a year on it. The point is he is talking about a celebratory debt free vacation at the same time he is $25000 in debt. So we're just nitpicking his choice of words? To clarify, I don't think he should be driving it either. I'd rather he sold it and got something drivable for $2-5k. But with the lovely deal he'll be getting when trying to sell it ($7k in the hole), the added risk/uncertainty of putting all kinds of miles on an older car, I wonder if it's worth the extra hassle. Zeta Taskforce posted:Also don't let your bromath convince you that 1.9% allows you to buy cars you can't afford, or that interest is the largest expense in car ownership. 100% agreed, I was just pointing out that he wouldn't save much by trying to pay it down as quickly as possible. You guys seem way vigilant about car loans. Do you all pay cash for your cars?
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Aug 20, 2011 00:29
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Not so much his choice of words. More their order. He can do whatever he wants with the car. And keeping it has it's advantages, like you and he has mentioned. But it also has it's costs. And one of those costs is no large vacations to other continents until its paid.
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Aug 20, 2011 00:35
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Psycho Crusher posted:I don't know if the car debt thing is such a big deal. He probably needs a car in some capacity, he already has it, it's his "dream car", it's fairly new, he knows the history of it, and the loan is only at 1.9%. By my bromath that means the total interest on his 25.5k car is about 1.8k. Is it really worth trying to pay off the car earlier, just to save a few hundred in interest? Or are we still talking about selling the car to get a better deal? Right, but he said he was going on a vacation when he was debt free, and then in the next sentence mentioned that after that, he'd pay off the car. The point everyone is making is that he is not debt free until the car is paid off too. We are saying don't go on an "I'm debt free!" vacation until you truly on debt free, and that includes the car loan being completely paid off.
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Aug 20, 2011 00:40
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Zeta Taskforce posted:Are you debt free using standard math or tuyop math? tuyop math. He's prettier than me so I trust his math (and it gets me out of debt quicker)
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Aug 20, 2011 01:00
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Psycho Crusher posted:You guys seem way vigilant about car loans. Do you all pay cash for your cars?
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Aug 20, 2011 01:12
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Zeta Taskforce posted:Not so much his choice of words. More their order. You're right. I just looked over everything again, and I have full confidence that he could probably be 100% debt-free, AND fully own a car (albeit a shittier one), within 2 years from now. I heed to your superior bromath.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:25
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tuyop posted:I have about 200 in savings right now. This is terrible, and should scare the living poo poo out of you. You're an adult, not a teenager with a pizza delivery job. Tuyop, have you read Zaurg's thread? Because while I know you've read Cornholio's, Zaurg is probably more your style what with the 'I made a budget but then I spent money beyond it anyway. Oh well' approach that you both seem to share. You need to get over that mindset, pronto. Edit: added thread link. Breetai fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 01:37
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Yeah, oops. I guess I kind of want to celebrate the end of my student loan and credit card debt.  I guess that's a no-no eh?
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Aug 20, 2011 01:37
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Celebrations that cost lots of money are inappropriate things to do when spending lots of money is a bad idea financially. You can celebrate things without spending lots of money, though. In fact, inexpensive celebration is clearly a life skill you need to obtain. I think you should strive to celebrate and take satisfaction from any achievement, if doing so is psychologically important to you; everyone needs to congratulate themselves from time to time. Just... not with big expensive vacations. Of course, you do get to decide what the priorities are in your life. When you've paid off your card and your student loan, and have only a car loan left, and you're right-side-up on your car, you can decide which is a higher priority: keeping your car, or "trading down" (sell it and buy something much cheaper) and using the cash for something else. In other words, there is an opportunity cost to owning something expensive, and that's the opportunity to own or do something else with that money. Maybe you'd rather go on vacations than have a nice car. If you can't afford both, you have to decide what the priority is.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:48
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Breetai posted:This is terrible, and should scare the living poo poo out of you. You're an adult, not a teenager with a pizza delivery job. To his credit, he had a lot more fun getting into debt than Zaurg did. And he's in better shape. And eats heartier. And as far as I know has no growths coming out of his foot. He probably gets laid WAY more often too.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:48
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Breetai posted:Tuyop, have you read Zaurg's thread? Because while I know you've read Cornholio's, Zaurg is probably more your style what with the 'I made a budget but then I spent money beyond it anyway. Oh well' approach that you both seem to share. I highly recommend the Zaurg thread too. Oh the wacky antics of Zaurg and his "keep up with the Joneses" wife!  One word: Wonderhangers. Seriously, read it though. It's a fun thread.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:53
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I should be clear of course that creating false-binary choices for yourself is also a problem. When all the debt save the car is paid, you have more than just the choice of "keep the car" or "sell it and go on vacation". For example, another choice is "sell the car and put some money into retirement", or "sell the car and put some money into savings", both of which would be financially responsible choices that might well serve you better in the long run. Also you were asking what emergency budgets are for earlier. They're for emergencies. Especially unforseen emergencies. The key thing about unforseen emergencies is that you can't forsee them. So listing forseeable emergencies kind of misses the point. Humans throughout history have found themselves caught up in all manner of tragedies, great and small, and a very large fraction of them can be alleviated or mitigated through the awesome power of cash money. But if you'd like an example that's not in the categories you mentioned: how about "a family member or dear friend of yours is in trouble and needs your help"? Those of us with good safety nets (medical insurance, family, government-run social services that are actually solvent, etc.) might (depending on your personal philosophy) feel that we have a responsibility to contribute to that network of safety-nets ourselves. Not merely through paying taxes or joining the military, but also through the informal networks that are often just as critical; family and friends and even neighbors and strangers sometimes need your help, and it's awesome to be in a position to provide it. Especially by not spending every spare dime (or toonie or whatever) you earn on self indulgence.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:55
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He's got problems even budgeting for things that aren't emergencies. Money that you expect to spend on something on a regular basis should be considered, so that you don't go "whoops forgot about that bill that I only see once a year." $26/month for haircuts and $5/month for XBL should be in there ahead of time. If you rip through a pair of boots every year or whatever, budget for that too. Have sex with the lady? Set some money aside for condoms/birth control pill/a calendar and a red Sharpie (and file it under "Entertainment").
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Aug 20, 2011 03:27
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If you want to go surfing why don't you take a bus to the coast and just camp and surf? It would cost like nothing for a week.Psycho Crusher posted:You guys seem way vigilant about car loans. Do you all pay cash for your cars? Rich people have the luxury of walking in to a store and buying something they like at face value with zero negotiation. Although that's actually just a made-for-tv stereotype as it's normally poor people that do this. cowofwar fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 04:03
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cowofwar posted:If you want to go surfing why don't you take a bus to the coast and just camp and surf? It would cost like nothing for a week. Yeah I live in Canada. First, the surf is poo poo even at the best spots on the east coast. Second, the water is 2-8 degrees all year round. I've surfed here a bunch and it's not worth buying a wet suit for the quality. Have you guys read the thread? I haven't gone over budget this month at all, despite my 50 dollar xbl splurge and 13 dollar haircut. I saved for the boots in May when I bought them. Pretty old news. I'm more interested in long term financial decisions. I really don't think I'm exposed to enough risk to justify a huge emergency fund, regardless of what Dave Ramsey says. I've been in the army for five years and every expense that's come up due to multiple injuries, including a week long hospital stay in a private room, was paid for. My family has four people in it and I'm estranged from one of them and they live a three hour drive away. If I have to move to Edmonton, I'll save a couple of grand for an emergency plane ticket, but right now, can't see it. For retirement, one way or another I'm going to get a nice government pension. The military one is sick, like 80% of your ending salary, and a teacher one is similar. Do I need to save for retirement?
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Aug 20, 2011 04:34
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tuyop posted:For retirement, one way or another I'm going to get a nice government pension. The military one is sick, like 80% of your ending salary, and a teacher one is similar. Do I need to save for retirement? Depends, do you think the pension deal will be anywhere near that sweet 35 years from now? (it won't). Do some reading about the number of people that are retiring in Canada in the next 5-10 years and the sort of shape pension plans will be in. In 2030 they estimate just 3 workers for every retiree in Canada. That's down from 6 workers per retiree in 1980. To keep the big pension funds solvent, the fund managers can (and will) do a few things. None of them are good for you- cut benefits, increase minimum retirement age or raise premiums. You bring up teachers, which is a great example of how hosed things are - in 1970 there were 10 teachers paying into the pension plan per retired teacher. Now there are 1.3 teachers per retired teacher. (Ontario teachers) I know this poo poo and don't even have a pension plan (other than my own considerable nest egg which I manage myself). You're at the back of a very long line and I would not count on the helpings of prime rib to be cut so thick by the time you get to the front. I wouldnt even count on it being prime rib - more like ground chuck. Act accordingly. Saltin fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 13:12
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Other "emergencies" you aren't prepared for: car repairs, getting engaged, getting married, etc. Those things can cost lots of money and an overall savings fund can help lessen the blow when they pop up.
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Aug 20, 2011 15:12
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I wouldn't call getting engaged or getting married an emergency. I mean hopefully you know in advance when those are coming so you can plan accordingly.
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Aug 20, 2011 15:38
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CornHolio posted:I wouldn't call getting engaged or getting married an emergency. I mean hopefully you know in advance when those are coming so you can plan accordingly. That's why I listed "emergencies" in quotes. It's not an emergency, but it is an expensive life event and why it is a good idea to have money in the bank.
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Aug 20, 2011 16:58
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CornHolio posted:I mean hopefully you know in advance when those are coming so you can plan accordingly. Counterpoint: Zaurg deliberately getting his wife pregnant while unemployed, and later budgeting $100 per month for a newborn. Just because it's a known event doesn't mean that people will plan accordingly regardless.
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Aug 21, 2011 03:05
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That pension poo poo is terrifying. Guess I'll start contributing to an rrsp at 25! I think I get what you guys are saying. Should I be satisfied with a 1000 dollar checking balance for emergencies right now while I'm paying down debt? But yeah. I will not get married. My girlfriend and I are very much against having children. My life is very simple and low-risk. In five years of living on my own I have never had an emergency that needed six months of expenses saved up. (except when I couldn't find a job in first year university and lived off of 2500 savings for a year.)
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Aug 21, 2011 03:56
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The only way outta debt is to go deeper into it; I suggest you buy a fixer upper in a bad neighborhood...
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Aug 21, 2011 04:47
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tuyop posted:Should I be satisfied with a 1000 dollar checking balance for emergencies right now How much is your health insurance excess?
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Aug 21, 2011 09:43
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Nam Taf posted:How much is your health insurance excess? Nothing.  and army so I have no prescription cost either.
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Aug 21, 2011 13:12
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tuyop posted:I'm more interested in long term financial decisions. I really don't think I'm exposed to enough risk to justify a huge emergency fund, regardless of what Dave Ramsey says. In a way you should be thankful that BFC seems to quote Dave Ramsey a lot more than Suze Orman. She tells people to have an 8 month emergency fund before they start paying extra on debt. I think that's overkill. But yeah, it's good to have a $1000 buffer, but maybe in a savings account that is accessible but not quite as accessible as your checking.
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Aug 21, 2011 17:45
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Dingleberry posted:The only way outta debt is to go deeper into it; I suggest you buy a fixer upper in a bad neighborhood... Until I do that I'm just throwing away money on rent, amirite?  Well, camping report. I spent literally $0 on this trip. Unless you count the 15 bucks I spent on meals and coffee that I probably would have done anyway if I didn't go. We just pitched a tent on the RV site that the girlfriend's family was on and nobody noticed or said anything. So, camping, y'all.  It also reduced the time between maintenance needed on my car I guess, because the site was about 500km away. Edit: I just noticed that the gas station charged me 91.18 to fill up last week. I bought 40 in gas and nothing else. They must have charged me for someone else's gas, I was on the phone and I didn't notice  . That loving sucks. I'm going to talk to them tomorrow and see if I can get the receipt and dispute it, but I'm not very optimistic.Also, has anyone else noticed that mint.com is having trouble accessing some banks? tuyop fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 21, 2011 |
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Aug 21, 2011 20:17
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tuyop posted:I spent literally $0 on this trip. Unless you count the 15 bucks I spent Absolutely follow up on the gas. Ideally they can give you a receipt (especially if you used a rewards card or anything like that). You can also try a charge back as a last ditch effort, but hopefully it won't come to that.
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Aug 21, 2011 23:19
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tuyop posted:They must have charged me for someone else's gas, I was on the phone and I didn't notice Don't be rude. You deserve it. Stop talking on your phone and interact with the person behind the register.
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Aug 22, 2011 12:24
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Nam Taf posted:Don't be rude. You deserve it. Stop talking on your phone and interact with the person behind the register. Yeah I worked at gas stations for five years. I've given people refunds for charging the wrong gas before. It'll probably need a manager though.
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Aug 22, 2011 13:16
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tuyop posted:Yeah I worked at gas stations for five years. Then you should know how rude it is to talk on your phone whilst someone serves you. I don't really care either way if you can get the refund, I'm just saying it's rude and to stop doing it.
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Aug 22, 2011 13:27
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Nam Taf posted:Then you should know how rude it is to talk on your phone whilst someone serves you. I don't really care either way if you can get the refund, I'm just saying it's rude and to stop doing it. I was usually reading a book or playing DS or something while serving people, so I really didn't give a gently caress. It's a gas station. I'm starting to think that BFC is uptight about more than just money. Edit: mint.com is pissing me off. I've been using the mobile app to enter in cash purchases to get an even more accurate view of where my cash is going, and hopefully bring the 160/mo down to 80 or 40. It's supposed to automagically split your ATM withdrawal with the 2 bux you spent on coffee or whatever, but it doesn't! I'm just going to split it myself for now, but that is a pissoff. Also, I have a large balance in my grocery budget for this month. On the 13th I spent 50, lots of meat that was on sale and stuff, and it lasted me all week so last week I spent like 14 on produce only. I took out another 50 yesterday for groceries, which is the idea with a budget, but now I have like 85 for this week in groceries, which will probably go the same way, two weeks worth of meat and a few days of produce. This balance is just going to grow, but I'm not sure I can keep up 80-120 spent on groceries every month so I don't think I should budget less for groceries. What's the usual thing to do in this situation? Just wait until the envelope has like 300 in it and throw it into savings? tuyop fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 14:24
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tuyop posted:This balance is just going to grow, but I'm not sure I can keep up 80-120 spent on groceries every month so I don't think I should budget less for groceries. What's the usual thing to do in this situation? Just wait until the envelope has like 300 in it and throw it into savings? At the end of every week (or two), whatever excess you have immediately put it on your debt. Don't let it sit around because it will be tempting to spend.
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Aug 22, 2011 18:08
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Well this is embarrassing. The 91.18 at the gas station was 51.18 for gas and 40 cash back for this week's (the camping trip's) cash spending. I'm an idiot. Can anyone recommend any good (Canadian) personal finance blogs? Edit: More embarrassment. In doing some budget maintenance, I realized that I forgot to categorize that wireless card (45), postage for some letters (3.33), field cigarettes (77), and the ebay payment (16) into a certain category and just put them on my debit card. The total is 142. I know I'm breaking even on these things because I was under in gas and groceries (by 112 so far this month), but they should all be accounted for in a category (cash, grocery would be a stretch), and as it is I just feel awful for breaking my budget. You can all yell at me now for not understanding the whole thing and being worse than some kind of comical super-villain like Rupert Murdoch. Edit 2: I bet most of you guys are organized in other areas of your life as well. While my professional stuff is kept very well filed away and stored, having three people living in this place is tight and I was wondering if I posted shots of our room or something if anyone would be familiar with any cheap storage and organization solutions... tuyop fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 19:18
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