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Hey, welcome to SA, Kazerad. You don't seem like the type to get particularly upset over valid criticism or "I hate what you like / noooo stop liking things" type stuff so I don't think any warnings about some of the people here are necessary.  Kazerad posted:Oh, I lead them on. I lead those guys on like you wouldn't believe. Being able to troll your readership seems like a pretty useful skill. Taking a setup in an unexpected direction is pleasantly surprising, because it shows you're generally not tempted to go for low-hanging fruit or blatantly pander to your fans.
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Aug 1, 2011 15:41
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Kazerad posted:He just doesn't think I can do it. He doesn't think I can pull off My Little Portal. My Little Portal, My Little Portal A-ahhh-ahhh-ahhhhhh I used to wonder what Portals could be Until you shared their magic with me Testing Chambers, turret guns Companion cubes with hearts drawn on Physics puzzles, they're no easy feat And gratuitous cake references make it all complete You have My Little Portals... Did anyone tell you the cake is a lie?
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Aug 1, 2011 16:47
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idonotlikepeas posted:My Little Portal, My Little Portal Not in the last 5 minutes, no.
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Aug 1, 2011 17:45
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Kazerad posted:a post. Speaking of control over the narrative, one of my favorite bits was how the magic fire started as a visual pun, then became a recurring gag, then an actual plot thread. Was that planned from the beginning or inspired by comments? Well played regardless!
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Aug 1, 2011 18:09
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Volmarias posted:Not in the last 5 minutes, no. It is, you know. It is a lie. Also, Kaz, welcome to Something Awful. You may wish to check out a few other threads if you have the time: * The MSPA thread because lord knows coming from the MSPA forums you couldn't possibly have seen enough discussion of MSPA yet. * The Comics Shop Talk thread, which is where comic authors discuss the process of working on comics with each other. A few medium-to-large names in webcomics drop by from time to time; it's a good place to pick up tricks and ask for advice. * The webcomic readers thread, which picks up discussion of all comics that don't have their own threads (and perhaps should have been where the Prequel discussion went, but this thread pulled it out of the MSPA thread more effectively, I think).
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Aug 1, 2011 18:36
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Huh. Kazerad showing up in the thread wasn't something I anticipated. Well, I guess I'll pull a flip-flop and post a little criticism that I didn't really feel the need to make an MSPA account for: I feel like we're not seeing enough of Katia's personality, specifically what she's like when she's drunk. Right now all we get are her taking a drink, a blackout, then her waking up. This is good for comedy purposes along the lines of "oh, look at this strange situation you've woken up in you little scamp!" But as a result, we basically only see her when she's a quivering neurotic mess trying to make up for mistakes we never saw. So our view of Katia is skewed heavily towards her sober side, in which she's nice and helpful but has a string of bad luck. But for Quill-Weave and other characters, the other half is when she's drunk and trashing a house. So when those characters react accordingly, the audience can't help but feel like Katia always deserves a second chance when maybe she actually doesn't. I think it's important to see her fail in a way that's not adorable and unintentional.
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Aug 1, 2011 22:41
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Thi is my default question when i see people putting lots of effort into fan work, but whatever. You obviously have some measure of writing talent here, so why a fanwork? Sure, its a guarantee of readership, but I can't help but feel you're wasting potential by riffing off of other peoples work so much.
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Aug 2, 2011 00:05
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Zenzirouj posted:Huh. Kazerad showing up in the thread wasn't something I anticipated. Well, I guess I'll pull a flip-flop and post a little criticism that I didn't really feel the need to make an MSPA account for: I feel like we're not seeing enough of Katia's personality, specifically what she's like when she's drunk. Right now all we get are her taking a drink, a blackout, then her waking up. This is good for comedy purposes along the lines of "oh, look at this strange situation you've woken up in you little scamp!" But as a result, we basically only see her when she's a quivering neurotic mess trying to make up for mistakes we never saw. So our view of Katia is skewed heavily towards her sober side, in which she's nice and helpful but has a string of bad luck. But for Quill-Weave and other characters, the other half is when she's drunk and trashing a house. So when those characters react accordingly, the audience can't help but feel like Katia always deserves a second chance when maybe she actually doesn't. I think it's important to see her fail in a way that's not adorable and unintentional. I dunno man then you go down the road of bashing on the alcoholic that's legitimately trying to change and I don't know. Chemical dependencies are a hell of a thing. That just doesn't seem classy.
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Aug 2, 2011 00:58
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Captain Oblivious posted:I dunno man then you go down the road of bashing on the alcoholic that's legitimately trying to change and I don't know. Chemical dependencies are a hell of a thing. Yeah. I'm fine with never seeing what she does while drunk. I took the black-out-fade-in to show her losing complete control of herself. Could have a bit of it shown from the POV of Quill-Weave, but I'm fine with most of it being done off-screen so the audience can fill in the horrible details in their own mind. Such as what the 'pineapple and yo-yo trick' is.
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Aug 2, 2011 01:21
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Hurray thread! I'm glad it was made, I've been watching the Homestuck thread, but replying to Prequel chat there always seemed off-topic. One of my favorite little things about this update was the X splitting in half when she took out the boss apple. 
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Aug 2, 2011 02:26
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Shame that didn't really happen, though. (I still think the MSPA forums are rather bad, insofar as it marks everything as read if you leave and come back. I don't want to read every single thread at once, board!)
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Aug 2, 2011 02:29
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LtStorm posted:Yeah. I'm fine with never seeing what she does while drunk. I took the black-out-fade-in to show her losing complete control of herself. Could have a bit of it shown from the POV of Quill-Weave, but I'm fine with most of it being done off-screen so the audience can fill in the horrible details in their own mind. Such as what the 'pineapple and yo-yo trick' is. Oh sure, there never needs to be more exposition on the pineapple trick or her deviant sexual escapades, I just think that if she goes into drunk mode again it might be good to have some of that shown. Then again, when I actually imagine it, it pretty much just looks funny. So my idea kind of falls apart.
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Aug 2, 2011 02:34
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Zenzirouj posted:Oh sure, there never needs to be more exposition on the pineapple trick or her deviant sexual escapades, I just think that if she goes into drunk mode again it might be good to have some of that shown. Then again, when I actually imagine it, it pretty much just looks funny. So my idea kind of falls apart. She's a blackout drunk pyromancer supposedly heading toward a town that is inevitably destroyed by fire in the game that this story is based on. Imagine that.
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Aug 2, 2011 02:41
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Tardstar posted:Wow, what's your problem? It's just that this comic is bankrupt of any sort of creativity or value. That's all.
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Aug 2, 2011 06:19
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EvilKosh posted:It's just that this comic is bankrupt of any sort of creativity or value. That's all. Well, I guess we should repossess everything bought with the extensive loans of valuable creativity that can't be repaid then. Dibs on Gro-Upp's abs of holding.
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Aug 2, 2011 06:51
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Kgummy posted:(I still think the MSPA forums are rather bad, insofar as it marks everything as read if you leave and come back. I don't want to read every single thread at once, board!) Uhh, it shouldn't do that. Do you have an account?
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Aug 2, 2011 06:52
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EvilKosh posted:It's just that this comic is bankrupt of any sort of creativity or value. That's all. Hmm. That's a rather sweeping generalization. And fairly trivial to demonstrate as false. Creativity is a subjective term and easy to get bogged down in, but value is fairly simple to demonstrate. Like most other comics, the primary value here is entertainment. While you personally may not be entertained by the comic, it is clear that others are (some have even said so in this thread). Therefore, it has value. If you'd like to have a discussion about the structure or merits of the comic that is an actual discussion, that seems reasonable; even the author has come here to respond to others doing that. If you plan to just periodically drop by to remind everyone else that it sucks and they should stop having fun, I would respectfully suggest that your time might be better spent regrouting your bathtub or issuing cryptic proclamations to an alien race in furtherance of your hidden long-term agenda.
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Aug 2, 2011 07:13
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idonotlikepeas posted:Also, Kaz, welcome to Something Awful. You may wish to check out a few other threads if you have the time: Dolash posted:Oh hey, it's the Kaz. Love your work on the MSPA forums, man. I poked around a bit for the Nestbound stuff (my art never got any better) and am really enjoying Prequel - why, I mistook you for an actual cat writing from your personal experience with racist feline puns. ShineDog posted:Thi is my default question when i see people putting lots of effort into fan work, but whatever. You obviously have some measure of writing talent here, so why a fanwork? Sure, its a guarantee of readership, but I can't help but feel you're wasting potential by riffing off of other peoples work so much. Like you said, the biggest advantage is a guarantee of readership. When you write fanfiction, you automatically get some readers from the thing you're "riffing off", and it also makes you a lot more likely to get further readers from that fandom. A lot of beginning writers don't understand this; they write heartfelt and entirely original material and then wonder why nobody notices it. Fans don't just appear out of nowhere; you have to acquire them. Fanfiction is a fairly easy way of doing so. That said, it's rarely a "sustainable" writing career, and it definitely has disadvantages. For instance, I can't legally sell merchandise or compilations or anything, at least pertaining to Bethesda's characters. But as a temporary move, it is incredibly advantageous. If I moved on to an original project after Prequel, I'd likely take my 3000+ readers with me. To be honest, what I'm doing right now is basically the authorial equivalent of powergaming. I'm writing MSPA/Oblivion fanfiction that makes sense without having read MSPA or played Oblivion. This means I get a pretty big stipend of MSPA and Elder Scrolls fans without really driving anyone away. I also get a steady stream of furries, and do so without driving the 4chan people away (since apparently Khajiit is not furry to them). So while I am doing a fanwork, I'm doing it very efficiently, have made an effort to bring my own flair to it, and have mostly mitigated the drawbacks. It's been a fun opportunity for me to experiment with tactical techniques like this. Haledjian posted:Speaking of control over the narrative, one of my favorite bits was how the magic fire started as a visual pun, then became a recurring gag, then an actual plot thread. Was that planned from the beginning or inspired by comments? Well played regardless! Zenzirouj posted:Huh. Kazerad showing up in the thread wasn't something I anticipated. Well, I guess I'll pull a flip-flop and post a little criticism that I didn't really feel the need to make an MSPA account for: I feel like we're not seeing enough of Katia's personality, specifically what she's like when she's drunk. Right now all we get are her taking a drink, a blackout, then her waking up. This is good for comedy purposes along the lines of "oh, look at this strange situation you've woken up in you little scamp!" But as a result, we basically only see her when she's a quivering neurotic mess trying to make up for mistakes we never saw. So our view of Katia is skewed heavily towards her sober side, in which she's nice and helpful but has a string of bad luck. But for Quill-Weave and other characters, the other half is when she's drunk and trashing a house. So when those characters react accordingly, the audience can't help but feel like Katia always deserves a second chance when maybe she actually doesn't. I think it's important to see her fail in a way that's not adorable and unintentional. I admit I'm probably not going to show Katia while she's drunk, at least any time soon (and definitely not from her point of view). The biggest factor here is just that I'm a huge fan of half-told stories. Think along the lines of Hemmingway's famous six-word piece: "For sale: baby shoes, never worn.". Not only does it tempt readers to fill in the blanks on their own, but the very lack of details says something about the narrator character and his/her attitude about the situation. Slutcat Adventures isn't exactly Hemmingway, I'm aiming to operate off the same basic principles. From what other characters say, you can make pretty accurate inferences about what Katia did/how she acted. The fact that she rarely pursues these details on her own says more about her character than I could by actually showing the events. (Though of course, an advantage of this writing medium is that if enough people seem to share your opinion, I can just show Katia drunk and pretend it was planned all along. I mean, if I can fit it smoothly in without breaking anything else.) EvilKosh posted:It's just that this comic is bankrupt of any sort of creativity or value. That's all. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 07:25
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Kazerad posted:If you can go into details I would love to hear it. Creativity is a word that is thrown around very haphazardly, and few people really explain what they mean by it. This especially bothers me with artists, who I swear seem to view creativity as a synonym for randomness. Well I'll pop in too. You're copying Hussie's drawing and animating style and you're using Oblivion's characters and world setting. You said it yourself you've efficiently gathered fans from elsewhere, but you haven't, really. Hussie and Bethesda did all of that work for you. Creativity is what you use to try and create an original thing, and that wasn't even on your agenda it seems like. :/ There's more to making something than internet readership.
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Aug 2, 2011 07:38
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Creativity can mean more than just originality. While it's somewhat derivative by nature, it can still be creative to explore different themes and ideas in existing settings. No one will ever call it great art, but it can be interesting.
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Aug 2, 2011 07:50
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Kazerad posted:A few years ago I would've agreed with you fully, but my views on fanwork have shifted pretty drastically over time. The fact is, I've come to realize that fanwork is actually a very efficient choice depending on your current goals. I noticed this thread and I wasn't going to post in it, but this is a dangerous line of thinking and I really have to advise against thinking this way as a creator. You're leaning interest in your creative ventures heavily on a creative crutch built by other people over many years, and that absolutely will color the sort of readers you get. If you told the same story with a different, original coat of paint do you think you'd see the same immediate level of interest from people? If the answer is no, can you really say it's the heart of your story that's pulling people in and not brand recognition? And this is strictly talking about reader interest, without getting into creative issues of learning how to build your own world from the ground up vs. borrowing a pre-made setting. What actually pulls people into your comic makes a big difference in what quality of reader you have or how loyal they are, and it can hurt you years down the road or whenever you shift into an "original" project. How sturdy is the foundation you're building for yourself? A front-loaded draw using established properties to hook readers isn't necessarily proven-stable in the long term, and can easily read as a false positive. You're effectively limiting the reach of your audience not by how far your own work is carrying you but by how big the pool of interest you're drawing from happens to be. Because again, would they be here if you had your own brand on the cover? You yourself said people make original, heartfelt work and no one notices, but with all the vibrant, original stories appearing on the webcomics scene in the past few years that's a proven temporary condition. quote:If I moved on to an original project after Prequel, I'd likely take my 3000+ readers with me. Der-Shing Helmer did a lot of Avatar fanwork before moving on to original creative ventures, but I think it was the actual creative essence of The Meek that really drew people to what she's doing. Are there any other success stories this actually worked for? Building an audience takes time. It takes years and years of working in obscurity before you build a strong enough product to stand on its own two legs and people take notice, and then people accuse you of "coming out of nowhere". You're clearly creative but you're making huge, dangerous assumptions and get-reader-quick reasons for your choices, and I can almost certainly say when you stop feeding them the name-brand sauce that brought them in they're not guaranteed to stick around.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:00
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As someone who had a lot of fun with Oblivion I'm really enjoying this. It's like I'm reading MSPA only the creator isn't an insane rear end in a top hat and there aren't a million characters dropping textdumps everywhere. So, you know, keep the absence of those things up I guess!
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Aug 2, 2011 08:03
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A Tasty Burger posted:As someone who had a lot of fun with Oblivion I'm really enjoying this. It's like I'm reading MSPA only the creator isn't an insane rear end in a top hat and there aren't a million characters dropping textdumps everywhere. So, you know, keep the absence of those things up I guess! I wasn't aware that Andrew Hussie was an insane rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:52
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Didnt you know? The MSPA thread has a detailed analysis of Hussie's comedy formspring answers, leading to the diagnosis of pychopathy and assholism.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:58
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SynthOrange posted:Didnt you know? The MSPA thread has a detailed analysis of Hussie's comedy formspring answers, leading to the diagnosis of pychopathy and assholism. Plus, somebody met him at a con once.
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Aug 2, 2011 09:26
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The Worst Unicorn posted:Well I'll pop in too. You're copying Hussie's drawing and animating style and you're using Oblivion's characters and world setting. You said it yourself you've efficiently gathered fans from elsewhere, but you haven't, really. Hussie and Bethesda did all of that work for you. Creativity is what you use to try and create an original thing, and that wasn't even on your agenda it seems like. :/ There's more to making something than internet readership. Don't get me wrong; I'm not speaking against originality. I do, however, think it is harmful to believe that more originality is necessarily better. Originality is a very powerful but potentially dangerous tool in any creator's repertoire. By definition, it's an avoidance of existing ideas. When people view this as something they need to maximize, it leads to nonconformism for the sake of nonconformism. Sometimes, existing ideas (or aspects of them) simply work well for your purposes and you should use them. No points are awarded for reinventing the wheel. In fact, it's worth noting that when something is praised for its originality/creativity, it's rarely based on the quantity of originality, but instead its placement. To use an overused video game example, Portal was often lauded as being "original", despite the fact it used conventional FPS controls, Valve's existing source engine, and the setting from Half Life 2. Or as another example, while I'm hardly a Brony I respect Lauren Faust's creativity in extracting a surprisingly coherent pony society from a line of Hasbro toys. These are both examples of very small quantities of originality intelligently placed in existing frameworks. I'm using Andrew Hussie's style and Bethesda's setting, but I would argue that I am introducing unique aspects as well. Anyone who has played Oblivion or read MSPA can attest that my story is a lot different from either. The originality is there, somewhere in the middle, not readily overt but perhaps made stronger by its unusual context. It's definitely not everyone's thing, but it seems to work out okay. I'm all for the intelligent application of originality, but given my present goals I don't think Prequel's setting and art style are the right place for it. Reiley posted:Der-Shing Helmer did a lot of Avatar fanwork before moving on to original creative ventures, but I think it was the actual creative essence of The Meek that really drew people to what she's doing. Are there any other success stories this actually worked for? Building an audience takes time. It takes years and years of working in obscurity before you build a strong enough product to stand on its own two legs and people take notice, and then people accuse you of "coming out of nowhere". You're clearly creative but you're making huge, dangerous assumptions and get-reader-quick reasons for your choices, and I can almost certainly say when you stop feeding them the name-brand sauce that brought them in they're not guaranteed to stick around. I recognize your concerns but think you underestimate the power of a large readership. They are more than simply a number; they are a mass of individuals, each one with his or her own reason for reading. I watch where they come from, and analyze how these numbers fluctuate with every page that is posted. Whenever possible, I monitor reader opinions and how they differ from every corner of the internet. Themes emerge; people begin to fall into relatively distinct camps of why they read/don't read. It's valuable to recognize that the author-reader relationship goes both ways; if a single critic is valuable learning tool for an artist, a consensus is priceless. When the time comes to move on to my next project, I'll probably lose some readers, yeah. But I also suspect that by then I'll know enough about their motivations that I'll be able to draw most of them along with me. Even if I lost every single one or did my next project under a new identity, I think I've learned enough from my current batch that I'd be able to hit similar readership numbers in a month or two. tl;dr version: I agree it's dangerous, but I think the payoff is worth it. edit: Look at me, I'm talking about statistical analysis and creativity theory when I should be making a catgirl cry. I blame all of you for delaying the update by being interesting. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 10:31
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This thread's got some sharp elbows. We should find our footing when there's another update to talk about. I'm curious to see how Katia handles the mudcrabs - is she capable of crab-murder, or will their adorable crabby faces stay her hand?
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Aug 2, 2011 10:58
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Dolash posted:This thread's got some sharp elbows. We should find our footing when there's another update to talk about. I'm curious to see how Katia handles the mudcrabs - is she capable of crab-murder, or will their adorable crabby faces stay her hand? After all, they're horrible creatures.
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Aug 2, 2011 11:02
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Kazerad posted:I recognize your concerns but think you underestimate the power of a large readership. They are more than simply a number; they are a mass of individuals, each one with his or her own reason for reading. I watch where they come from, and analyze how these numbers fluctuate with every page that is posted. Whenever possible, I monitor reader opinions and how they differ from every corner of the internet. Themes emerge; people begin to fall into relatively distinct camps of why they read/don't read. It's valuable to recognize that the author-reader relationship goes both ways; if a single critic is valuable learning tool for an artist, a consensus is priceless. Derivative work is by no means uncommon on the internet. What is uncommon, however, is people who deal and lean so heavily on fanwork rising to stand peer among other creators who built their readerships without putting someone else's sticker on their package. That you believe you'll be an exception using one party's visual style and another party's intellectual property to sell your story is certainly interesting , and I wish you the best of luck. However, I will strongly advise against telling people the reasons you're using fanwork to build an audience like you have in this tread, since your reasons provided all sound manipulative and ethically bankrupt.
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Aug 2, 2011 11:31
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Ugh I don't want to continue this discussion but can we save "manipulative and ethically bankrupt" for something other than a webcomic? Maybe it's good to discuss these topics but it's not going to be easy to ratchet down to mudcrab-chat once the tone of discussion becomes "is this comic creatively and ethically void?"
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Aug 2, 2011 11:50
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Just chiming in to say I've never been able to get into or understand MSPA (nothing against people who do, I've just never "got" it), but this little Elder Scrolls fancomic is pretty fun. Don't care if it's derivative or unoriginal or whatever I just like reading it.
Iprazochrome fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 12:00
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Dolash posted:Ugh I don't want to continue this discussion but can we save "manipulative and ethically bankrupt" for something other than a webcomic? Maybe it's good to discuss these topics but it's not going to be easy to ratchet down to mudcrab-chat once the tone of discussion becomes "is this comic creatively and ethically void?" Maybe people find that more interesting than "hey those are some mudcrabs alright!" and that's why they post about it! Also nothing is stopping mudcrab-chat. whats your favorite kind of mudcrab?
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Aug 2, 2011 12:47
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I'm considering the fact that the webcomic creator has popped up to completely justify the making of a new thread.  In all seriousness though, great to have you here. How far have you planned ahead? I don't want details of course, just curious about how much of the storyline you have in mind, and how much you're willing to railroad if you have to. Edit: My favourite mudcrabs are the ones that are more fearsome than me. I've never met one, but everyone says they're out there! SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 12:48
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Varinn posted:Also nothing is stopping mudcrab-chat. whats your favorite kind of mudcrab? The ones that sell you stuff!  Although I never did find that sneaky bastard. 
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Aug 2, 2011 13:15
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Varinn posted:Maybe people find that more interesting than "hey those are some mudcrabs alright!" and that's why they post about it! Honestly, those very mudcrabs near Anvil are my favorites. Spent a lot of time powerskilling off those guys. The legionnaire has good taste.
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Aug 2, 2011 14:30
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Is it ok to just say the comic is well drawn and interesting? I mean the source material may not be original, but the story itself is certainly creative within the framework being borrowed from. I like it 
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Aug 2, 2011 15:16
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The Worst Unicorn posted:Well I'll pop in too. You're copying Hussie's drawing and animating style and you're using Oblivion's characters and world setting. As for stealing from Oblivion, the game itself is hardly an exemplar of unique and original fantasy settings. It's got elves and orcs lifted wholesale from Tolkien, dudes in armor with swords, mages that cast spells, lizard people and furries that I'm pretty sure are plentiful in Dungeons and Dragons. It's a character-driven story much more than a plot-driven one, so he could easily change the names of the species and locations and it would work just as well. But if he's fishing for readers then why bother? Kazerad posted:I recognize your concerns but think you underestimate the power of a large readership. They are more than simply a number; they are a mass of individuals, each one with his or her own reason for reading. I watch where they come from, and analyze how these numbers fluctuate with every page that is posted. Whenever possible, I monitor reader opinions and how they differ from every corner of the internet. Themes emerge; people begin to fall into relatively distinct camps of why they read/don't read. It's valuable to recognize that the author-reader relationship goes both ways; if a single critic is valuable learning tool for an artist, a consensus is priceless. This type of thinking about fanbases is always interesting to me, especially in terms of trying to game the internet, which a lot of people who really want to haven't figured out how to do yet. I make rap songs. About a month ago I put one out about My Little Pony, as kind of a joke, and it quickly shot up to about 100,000 listens, between Youtube and Soundcloud. I was hoping people would stick around and listen to the less gimmicky stuff on my Soundcloud (I even tried to capitalize on it by including a "bonus track" in the pony song download), but for the most part that hasn't happened--my other songs are hovering in the mid-to-low hundreds. I did get somewhere between 50 and 100 subscribers off it, but most of them have pony avatars and I wouldn't be surprised to see them dropping off when they realize I'm not gonna make any more songs about their favorite cartoon. So, 3000 readers is pretty substantial, but there's usually a fanbase bell curve where the vast middle is occupied by people who don't really care that much. If you're going to try to get them to follow you anywhere I wouldn't count on more than 10% or so actually following through with it (although that 10% will inevitably be devoted as hell and probably spread your new poo poo around as much as they can). That said, your comic has pretty broad appeal, and the format you're using definitely promotes some personal investment in the product, so who knows! Internet popularity is crazy poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2011 15:37
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Bolian Blues posted:Just chiming in to say I've never been able to get into or understand MSPA (nothing against people who do, I've just never "got" it), but this little Elder Scrolls fancomic is pretty fun. Don't care if it's derivative or unoriginal or whatever I just like reading it. I find MSPA waaaaaaaaaay too self indulgent to read, but this doesn't, yet, have that problem. It's far more approachable. As for Ethically bankrupt? Well, it's certainly mercenary as all hell, but seeing the Author actually has some reasons for this beyond "WOW IT'S SO GREAT IT'S THE BEST I'M GONNA WRITE ABOUT DR WHO BECAUSE I LOVE IT" makes me happier about the whole thing, mercenary or not.
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Aug 2, 2011 16:02
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Kazerad posted:Don't get me wrong; I'm not speaking against originality. I do, however, think it is harmful to believe that more originality is necessarily better. Originality is a very powerful but potentially dangerous tool in any creator's repertoire. By definition, it's an avoidance of existing ideas. When people view this as something they need to maximize, it leads to nonconformism for the sake of nonconformism. Sometimes, existing ideas (or aspects of them) simply work well for your purposes and you should use them. No points are awarded for reinventing the wheel. Well. . . yeah, I guess doing something original is 'dangerous' in the sense that not everyone will like it. But that's it. I think that reader interest is not the best gauge to the success of a work, I mean look at DeviantArt. Some people will favorite and convince themselves that they actually love anything that has Sonic in it without even really looking at it. If you don't put any Sonics in there you've got no guarantees, but at least you'd know they actually liked something you did if it gave them any pause. Haledjian posted:Is this really so terrible? Scott McCloud made a big deal out of how the internet was going to change the way we read and interacted with comics, but most webcomics are still doing the x-weekly box-of-panels format. The MSPA format is one of the first I've seen that genuinely could only ever exist online. It's pretty compelling in that regard. It's a great idea, of course people are going to copy it, especially within the insular community of its forums. Some might even be better than the original. Isn't that how music genres get made? Oh no, I'm not talking about the CYOA format, which is already an established genre and nobody really owns that. I'm just put off by this guy's efforts to make it look just like something Hussie drew. The actual drawing style doesn't have any impact on this particular genre. All said I do appreciate that you came here for discussion, Kazerad. I'm not meaning to argue for you to turn the direction of Prequel around or anything, it just got me thinking.
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Aug 2, 2011 16:16
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Reiley posted:Derivative work is by no means uncommon on the internet. What is uncommon, however, is people who deal and lean so heavily on fanwork rising to stand peer among other creators who built their readerships without putting someone else's sticker on their package. That you believe you'll be an exception using one party's visual style and another party's intellectual property to sell your story is certainly interesting , and I wish you the best of luck. However, I will strongly advise against telling people the reasons you're using fanwork to build an audience like you have in this tread, since your reasons provided all sound manipulative and ethically bankrupt. If the terms manipulative and ethically bankrupt are terms you feel comfortable throwing around with something as trivial as "gauging audience areas of interest and how to engage them" then I...I think you might want to get out in the real world. I literally guarantee people are doing poo poo that actually warrant those terms, you'd do well to have a better frame of reference.
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Aug 2, 2011 16:30
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