|
Thordain posted:One time I saw Qing China's war with the Heavenly Kingdom last for 20 years despite the Qing having 200 divisions to the Kingdom's 1. Eventually I got curious enough to switch over to Qing to discover that every single division had one soldier in it. The sieges took HILARIOUSLY long. Well, that's certainly the archetypal example of a paper tiger.
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 08:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 06:32 |
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:Maybe a way for the conservatives to keep the order in glorious Anatolia will be to deal with that mad man claiming to be the ruler of some place called Azerbaijan. It is of paramount importance that we do this for the future stability of our great republic, there is even the added bonus that we get to liberate the people of Aleppo from their oppression under the monarchist yoke.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 15:40
|
|
|
It appears that Russia has changed from a Democracy to a Bourgeois Dictatorship, but a revolution hasn't happened. Can someone explain?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
Bourgeois Dictatorship in Victoria 2 terms is, if I recall correctly, the game's strange(ly inadequate) way of trying to distinguish between an actual liberal democracy and something resembling Revolutionary France at its most radical. They're what happens if you get a successful Anarcho-Liberal revolution (which are a really dumb addition to the game).
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:06
|
|
|
I...think they were ported over as one. It can't be a revolution, Anarcho-Liberalism isn't on yet and a revolution would have dismantled their sphere, letting us go free. Wiz, could we hear the Kadet party's positions? I want to know what our masters are all about.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:08
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:I...think they were ported over as one. It can't be a revolution, Anarcho-Liberalism isn't on yet and a revolution would have dismantled their sphere, letting us go free. I'm fairly certain that in the first V2 update Russia was a democracy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:16
|
|
|
Yep:Wiz posted:The greatest power of its age, Russia is a Liberal Democracy whose territory stretches from the Baltic to the Pacific, and whose influence is felt across Europe and Asia. An economic giant and the most formidable land power in the world, it seems as though Russia is poised to make the 19th century a Russian century.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:20
|
|
|
Hm. I'm guessing there's been some interesting Russian domestic politics we've been missing. Perhaps the Kadets have become more radical since Pressburg, cracking down on anti-revolutionaries and setting up an organisation similar to the Okhrana.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:33
|
|
|
But... but what about the romantic situation of the former heir to the Tsar (whom I think ruled for a few months, maybe?) becoming the new President. Can't we please have that as canon up to that point, even if this descent into dictatorship happened later?
Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:41
|
|
|
Readingaccount posted:But... but what about the romantic situation of the former heir to the Tsar becoming the new President. Can't we please have that as canon? It probably did happen, initially. Maybe he died or was killed later...that would have happened 30 years ago now. I'm not sure how Russia works now in terms of game mechanics: the Cadets are clearly a Liberal, not an Anarcho-Liberal party. A 100% Liberal upper house is going to be passing political reform after political reform...if it is a dictatorship, it won't be one for long.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 17:44
|
|
|
Readingaccount posted:But... but what about the romantic situation of the former heir to the Tsar (whom I think ruled for a few months, maybe?) becoming the new President. Can't we please have that as canon up to that point, even if this descent into dictatorship happened later? Can't we have the heir of Tunga (hopefully not as awful as him) be our President? Maybe we could get Aleppo back as part of the deal!
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 18:18
|
|
|
Maybe the lack of actual fighting their reactionary enemies made the Russians cracking up on suppressing any kind of internal revolt. Wouldn't be the first time that a post war regime lashes out against internal enemies simply because they suddenly have the resources.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
e X posted:Maybe the lack of actual fighting their reactionary enemies made the Russians cracking up on suppressing any kind of internal revolt. Wouldn't be the first time that a post war regime lashes out against internal enemies simply because they suddenly have the resources. This is probably pretty much what happened. Apparently if a democracy in V2 abolishes voting it devolves into a dictatorship friendly to the ideology of the ruling party. I guess the Kadets just got tired of internal opposition? To me that actually raises more questions than it answers: I have never seen a democracy in V2 decide to abolish voting on its own before.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
Pretty interesting from a story perspective though. This isn't exactly the same Kadets party of OTL, especially since the real Kadets were formed in 1905. However 60% of Kadets were nobles, so perhaps the same is true for the Kadets here. Maybe the upper cabal of the party judged that after the huge conflict that ended with Pressburg, in order to retain control of the country in the face of internal opposition in the Duma and in the populace, it was judged best to suspend elections and place all power in the Revolutionary Council.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2013 22:38
|
|
|
Readingaccount posted:But... but what about the romantic situation of the former heir to the Tsar (whom I think ruled for a few months, maybe?) becoming the new President. Can't we please have that as canon up to that point, even if this descent into dictatorship happened later? Because people seem not to care too much about game mechanics other than me... CANON In 1828, General Iosif Mansurov was doing pretty well for himself. He successfully The problem however is that Russia is now being divided between two opposing camps. Mansurov was the leader of a moderate faction (the Conservatives) who claimed that the Revolution was "over", that Russia has finally overthrown the last of the feudal order and now Russia should focus on spreading the Russian enlightenement abroad. However, a radical faction (the Kadets) argued that the revolution is still not yet over and that there is still oppression within Russia that had to be purged. Though the Kadets never went so far as to attack Mansurov's own tolerance of "reactionaries", they still called on the Russian ruling class to "truly implement Mark Beketov's vision, as outlined in The Manifesto". Iosif Mansurov, after some deliberation, tried a desperate tactic to heal the rifts within Russian society and marginalize the Kadets. He strongly endorsed a protégé of his, Aleksander Shermentev, to be the next ruler of Russia. Shermentev was well-known for being an ex-claimant to the Russian Tsardom, who dramatically renounced his claim in a show trial organized by Mansurov. In return for amnesty, Aleksander Shermentev would serve as an administrator for Mansurov's government. Aleksander was both competent and a prominent member of the Russian aristocracy. Mansurov gambled that his prestige would serve to provide national unify Russia and undermine the Kadets' popularity. In the Winter of 1828, Aleksander Shermentev won his election on a very narrow vote. Many Kadets argued that what Mansurov did was nothing less than a betrayal of the Revolutionary spirit of meritioracy, while Iosif Mansurov himself called the election the Second Shermentev Restoration. Mansurov pointed out that it was the Shermentev royal family that had led Russia to economic and social prosperity, but the family soon became corrupted with power and failed to adopt the revolutionary spirit. Now that Aleksander Shermentev had "learnt the proper revolutionary traditions", he was fit to gain power. The election was a shock to the Imperial Russian exiles, who had lost hope that a Shermentev would ever again rule Russia. Many of these exiles returned back to Russia to help consolidate Shermentev's rule, and a few of these exiles had dreams that the Shermentev family would continue to rule Russia long after Aleksander's death, only as democratic leaders instead of autocratic kings. In Spring 1828, Aleksander Shermenetv carried out Mansurov's last wish by declaring war on Germany. Mansurov thought that this would be a quick war that would end by Christmas with the liberation of Berlin and the re-establishment of Revolutionary Germany. This war would not only make Russia a global power, but it would also give Aleksander something to boast about in future election campaigns. Mansurov was a very wise man who made a lot of good decisions. This was not one of them. By the time of the Peace of Pressburg in 1833, Shermenetv's popularity was nil. War exhaustion kicked in, and many pro-Kadet riots broke out in urbanized areas. Though Russia had did expand its geopolitical influence, it failed in the main goal of overthrowing the German monarchy. Most of the Russian victories were attributed to the Russian generals on the warfront, not to a hopelessy inept royal brat who is only good at shuffling papers. Still, Shermenetv did plan on eventually retiring and handing power off to a protégé...but he was murdered right after he returned back from Pressburg. The murderer, in the standard Russian tradition, murdered himself after doing the murder. However, suspicion fell on the Kadets, and their erstwhile leader, Lev Mikulnski. Lev eventually intimidated enough delegates to vote for him to become next leader of Russia. Lev Mikulnski thought that his asssassination plot would allow the Kadets to seize control over Russia. He was right. He thought that Russian democracy would still survive. He was wrong. Though the Kadets were never in any real danger of being overthrown, continued unrest by the pro-Shermentev conservatives fueled paranoia withink the Kadet ruling class. Lev Mikulnski's plans to "further the revolution at home" also proved very unpopular, but instead of reversing them, Lev Mikulnski only doubled down on them and blamed all opposition on a vast, anti-revolutionary conspiracy. So it was inevitable that the Kadets would be "forced" to declare a "state of emergency" and suspend all democratic elections, allowing Lev Mikulnski to become the supreme dictator over a bourgeois dictatorship until all remenants of the old order can be purged. The liberal idealism that motivated the Kadets still exist, but it became twisted. The Kadets still love the idea of liberal democracy, but believed that that true liberal democracy can only really exist once all elements of conservatism are extinguished. Otherwise, the conservatives can simply plot to hijack democracy from within and halt or roll back liberal reforms. After Lev's death by natural causes, the Kadets soon bicked on who should succeed him. They eventually decided on a power-sharing agreement, and the Revolutionary Council would be formed, consisting of seven well-known revolutionaries, who will focus their efforts on implementing the Manifesto.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2013 14:48
|
|
|
Brilliant write-up, thanks for the effort-post!
Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Nov 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:I...think they were ported over as one. It can't be a revolution, Anarcho-Liberalism isn't on yet and a revolution would have dismantled their sphere, letting us go free. When an extremist party (reactionary, anarcho-liberal, communist, fascist) gets elected and average militancy is not low, an event can fire where the government abolishes the constitution and establishes a dictatorship. It is most probably meant to simulate events such as burning of Reichstag and its aftermath. It happens quite rarely, though - at least with NNM.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
Gantolandon posted:When an extremist party (reactionary, anarcho-liberal, communist, fascist) gets elected and average militancy is not low, an event can fire where the government abolishes the constitution and establishes a dictatorship. It is most probably meant to simulate events such as burning of Reichstag and its aftermath. It happens quite rarely, though - at least with NNM. Yes, but there isn't an Anarcho-Liberal party yet, so that can't be it either. Also, bravo to Servant for a perfectly working explanation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2013 17:38
|
|
|
Yeah, props to servant for the neat write-up, it's really nice to see people trying to create 'believable worlds' if you will and I'm kinda flattered you used my 'Revolutionary Council' idea, even if it is fluff.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2013 19:08
|
|
|
Is DarkCrawler still doing his "Sultans of Azerbaijan" writeup? Because we totally need a "Presidents of Anatolia" continuation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2013 20:43
|
|
|
A very happy Crusader Kings 2 Hanukkah to everyone!
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2013 04:36
|
|
|
rlloyd3 posted:A very happy Crusader Kings 2 Hanukkah to everyone! Mazel tov!
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2013 16:58
|
|
|
rlloyd3 posted:A very happy Crusader Kings 2 Hanukkah to everyone! That's more of a Passover pic. Hannukah is "My Divine Emperor Who Is A Manifestation Of The Gods: Jewish Zealots have rebelled in the province of Judea."
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2013 17:10
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:That's more of a Passover pic. Hannukah is "My Divine Emperor Who Is A Manifestation Of The Gods: Jewish Zealots have rebelled in the province of Judea." But which Jewish Zealots?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 23:50
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:But which Jewish Zealots? Hopefully not the United Judean People's Front.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 23:55
|
|
|
Kavak posted:Hopefully not the United Judean People's Front. Pfft, they're not nearly as bad as the People's Front of Judea.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 23:56
|
|
|
Serperoth posted:Pfft, they're not nearly as bad as the People's Front of Judea. Splitters!
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2013 02:09
|
|
|
Wiz posted:Concerned about this development, Jahan renews the old military alliances with Russia. Also, regarding Persia's conquests in Arabia-- do they have cores there, or is stark ambition the only thing driving that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 21:27
|
|
|
Ofaloaf posted:I apologize for the woefully late question, but this has been bothering me for a few updates and I likely missed an earlier answer-- why did the flag change that way? I thought the blue-white-green tricolor was the Republican flag and the flame-on-black one was the Monarchist flag, if year-old flagchat is anything to go by (it probably isn't). I'm going to guess the Tricolor was our Dictatorship flag variant and the Black one is our default flag variant. And is Anatolia the only tag for Azerbaijan or are Anatolia and Azerbaijan two separate tags?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 22:26
|
|
|
theblastizard posted:I'm going to guess the Tricolor was our Dictatorship flag variant and the Black one is our default flag variant. I'd guess that if there is an Azerbaijan in there that its the name if the country is a monarchy, I had a communist revolution as the US in Victoria 2 and the name changed to "People's Republic of America".
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2013 23:04
|
|
|
theblastizard posted:I'm going to guess the Tricolor was our Dictatorship flag variant and the Black one is our default flag variant. 'Nother flagchat question-- is the Star of India a workable royal/colonial symbol for Italian India? Like, if that gets spun off as a dominion, would something like  work for it, or is that too derivative of British India? I don't think I saw any Italian Raj designs earlier on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 16:35
|
|
|
Italian Raj? Flagchat Ho!  What? It's not an empty post, I'm just not good at making flags, but 'Italian Raj' just sounds so awesome, millennia of Imperial history intertwines... so thus actually encouraging flagchat for once. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
The Star of India comes from the insignia of the Order of the Star of India, a chivalric order created by Queen Victoria. I'd think it'd be believable that the Italian King created a similar order. It does have the english words "Heavens guide our light" on it, but it's pretty small and I don't think people will notice that much. As such I think it would be appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
Germany and Russia being on the same side in this Romanian business is pretty interesting. I suppose Germany is supporting Hungary for the same reason the Russians are: it doesn't want an Italian aligned Romania. What'll be interesting to me in the medium term is how the status of Bavaria as a Great Power plays out. They are the weakest Great Power by a long way, and the fact that they're a Great Power at all seems to be a relic of the static 'there are always 8 Great Powers' mechanic. Being sandwiched between the 3 very scary powers of Germany, Italy, and Russia must be no fun for them. With Germany certain to have designs on Bavarian land, if not wanting to annex Bavaria itself, and Russia's intention on dominating the Balkans, I wouldn't be surprised if Bavaria became very friendly with Italy. As Burgundy probably doesn't have much love lost for Germany, they might be a Bavarian ally too. Indeed, an Italian-Bavarian-Burgundian triple alliance seems likely to neuter the threat of Germany, and such an alliance would also mean that Russia would have to seek an ally in Germany in any major war. That alliance would probably still give the upper hand to Italy-Bavaria-Burgundy in a major war because Germany would lose her armies before Russia could mobilize her own. But I digress, we are far too far away from the era of Great Wars to be entertaining such ideas. No doubt Bavaria will quietly and ignominiously drop from the Great Power list and become an irrelevance by the late 19th century.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 16:50
|
|
|
I'm guessing they'll play a role kind of like a blend of the Ottomans and the Low Countries in terms of being an occasional spoiler in international politics, popping up on to the GP rolls periodically to intervene in crises and otherwise being a center of foreign diplomatic gaming. This will probably last for the first, oh, 20-30 years, until growing immigration drives the New World states to the point where they can industrialize and start to make the rankings, aided by however territorial gains shake out across the pond. After that, maybe we'll see an Anschluss situation, by which I mean that Bavaria will properly consume Germany.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 22:11
|
|
|
 Chapter 5: The World of 1850 Anatolia of 1850 is a changed place from 1836. Though it looks identical on the surface, the internal changes are many and varied.  It has gone from a liberal, militaristic dictatorship to a stable republic, dominated by the landowning classes but invested in economic progress.  The nationalist strife plaguing the country has been surpressed for the moment, replaced with social organization for political and economic rights.  The economy is also stable and the Kral government's policy of cautious industrialization has seen some limited success, though the high illiteracy rates among the working population is making it difficult to staff factories, particularily in minority dominated states.    The population remains divided culturally, religiously and politically, though the liberal movement is beginning to regain strength after its utter defeat in previous elections.  The world too, has changed greatly. As European Great Powers have been fighting among themselves, Britain has been engaged in a program of industrialization and colonization, expanding its armies and navies to the point where it has risen from obscurity into seemingly the strongest power in Europe. Russia, Italy and Germany, exhausted from endless wars, have begun to fall behind economically and militarily, and the once so invincible Russian army is no longer looking so invincible.  It is in this context that Britain has chosen to test its new position by challenging Russia, and with both states eager to assert their power against the other, a diplomatic resolution is looking unlikely.     Will Russia retain its position of dominance over the upstart Britons, or will British steam and coal prove the power of wealth over population once and for all? The future is uncertain.      With conservatives currently holding all the power, the Upper House of the Senate - The Shura - has been regaining some of its powers in recent years, acting as a sort of guiding body for the government that represents the interests of Anatolia's landed elite and wealthy capitalists. Thus, the Kral government's n response to the diplomatical crisis about to erupt in Europe is to assemble this body for an advisory vote on Anatolia's future actions. There are three principal items on the agenda... Question 1: Economic Policy Anatolia's experimentation with industrialization has so far been a modest success, but to achieve more substantial economic gains Anatolia will need to invest in infrastructure, literacy and economically liberal policies, undoubtedly leading to increased liberal influence. Is this a price worth paying for the sake of economic progress? Option A: Rapid Industrialiation, Anatolia must industrialize as quickly as possible Option B: Slow Industrialization, industrialization should continue but at the current, slower pace Option C: No Industrialization, industrialization should be stopped altogether Question 2: Social Policy As a Republic, Anatolia currently greatly favors the entrenched elite. This results in considerable social unrest among the disenfranchised classes, and the problem will only get worse if we continue to educate the population in the interests of industrialization. What, if any, reforms should be taken in response to this problem? Option A: Rapid Reform, open up the government to the middle classes as soon as possible Option B: Slow Reform, reform voting rights only as necessary to prevent too much unrest Option C: No Reform, keep things as they are Question 3: Foreign Policy For the first time since the Revolutionary Wars, Russia is in a position of relative weakness. This offers Anatolia the chance to shape its own foreign policy. Option A: Pro-Russian, we should tie our fortunes to Russia and remain their loyal ally so that they can protect us Option B: Armed Independence, we should try and get out from the Russian sphere and avoid entanglement with the Great Powers altogether, relying on a strong national defense to protect us Option C: Expansionism, we should seize the opportunity to militarize and begin expanding into the territory of our weaker neighbours, with the ultimate aim of becoming a Great Power ourselves 24 hours will be allowed for the vote. No vote changing, but if two or more options are very close I will take that into account for the final result and probably make some kind of compromise. Note: The more democratic Anatolia becomes, the less weight these decisions will carry, and the less Shura votes will be held in the future. Finally, I have the next two weeks off, so I'm gonna do my best to stop dragging my feet and wrap up V2, after which I am considering going into DH if I get some help with the more tedious bits of the conversion. Will keep you posted there. Wiz posted:Pick one answer on each question. The answers aren't absolutes, Armed Independence doesn't mean we'll never start a war, particularly if we go more democratic and a militaristic party gets into power. Wiz fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2013 17:12
|
|
|
A, A, C. Mostly because with great wars looming on the horizon and a potential jump to DH, I want to see the Anatolian Republic with the capability to make some noise. This is the age of large-scale war, so let's prepare for that Kriegswirtschaft.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
A, A, B.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2013 17:25
|
|
|
I'm in favor of the Alphabet solution-- A, B, C, regarding questions 1, 2 and 3. Industrializing is the only way to survive, but rapid economic changes are inevitably going to force some political changes, just because of a rapidly growing labor force. There's no need to go full democracy, though, so let's offer only what reforms are necessary as time marches on. Regarding the third question, Aleppo's continued existence is an affront to Anatolian pride and it must be destroyed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 06:32 |
|
|
Q1. Economic Policy: A Anatolia must industrialise if it is to be more than a mere Russian puppet. Q2. Social Policy: B The Kral have guided us well so far but gripping too tightly to power is the best way to lose it. Liberalise where necessary but don't rush. Q3. Foreign Policy: B Anatolia must forge it's own destiny. But it cannot do so without eliminating the last deluded remnants of Azerbaijan's feudal past. Damascus and the regime there must be utterly crushed if we are to build a modern state. Ferrosol fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Dec 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2013 17:27
|
|
