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Darth Windu
Mar 17, 2009

by Smythe

Pakled posted:

I always make decisions in CK the same way my ruler would based on his personality traits. If he's cold and cruel, he'd beat the poo poo out of his kids when they did something wrong (or perhaps have a servant do so). A wise and just king would try to instill those virtues in his children. A lazy, arbitrary king basically ignores his realm, and he only rides out to battle when his kingdom is in a state of total upheaval with vassals breaking away and poo poo (basically when he has no other choice).

The best thing about being a vassal is being able to send your king to war for free. Battlefield events are fun and dangerous!

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sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd
Hey guys, it's time for a:



So the Archiving of Crete is finally getting back into gear. I've got all of Wiz's updates (Sims and Suebia included), and I'll be editing those in the coming days, but I need your help! So much of the thread was based on the inter-update periods, and it would be a shame to lose them. On the other hand, to straight transcribe the thread would be pointless. The answer?

Tomn posted:

Note: "Pre-session discussion" denotes everything from the last update down to the beginning of the legislative session. The session itself is of course everything during the actual legislative session. "Post-session discussion" denotes everything after the bill is put up for final voting up to the next update.

The pre-session discussion for this session was, unsurprisingly, largely pointless, consisting mostly of people signing up for the new LP, along with a little banter about Populists destroying Crete and how to stop them. At this stage, it should be mentioned, the Senate Rules were rather different from the modern form - the ruling party (militarists for this session) needed to begin legislation, after which all other parties proposed riders. Legislation needed four co-sponsors from any party to pass, and only one rider, the first to gain 4 co-sponsors, were allowed per party (except the militarists, who got two.) Further, it was possible to completely annul another party's rider, rendering it wholly null and void.

The session itself was, by modern Cretan standards, quite uneventful, with most of it taken up with confusion over Senate procedures and some light argument over the Populist rider. Things kicked off by waiting around for the militarists, who were apparently mostly asleep. Wiz responded with a snap judgment allowing all parties to vote for legislation at any time, at which point the voting and co-sponsoring began. Again, this was a fairly gentle session - the biggest argument was over the Populist proposal (Ali Alkali) to make all admirals Populists, which was opposed first by a Religious proposal (BklynBruzer) banning Populists from the position of Censor, and more directly by a Militarist proposal (bunnyofdoom) to directly annul the Populist proposal. Seeing as Bklyn's proposal was useless without former Populist leaders, it was ultimately withdrawn and replaced by a more practical and useful rider. The entire argument was VERY mild by modern standards, mostly being gentle chiding on both sides with little heat to them. Incidentally, Sniper4625 can be spotted midway through pointing out the usefulness of a legislative summary and the current lack thereof, in which one may spot the seeds of his future as Sniperius Speakerid, Speaker of the House.

The Final Bill -

Civics (oystertoadfish, Father of Cretan Democracy) - Pass "Sponsorship of Privateers" Special Law
Religious (Sniper4625) - Motion to set up trade route for iron
Militarist (bunnyofdoom) - Motion to set up trade route for wood
Mercantilist (Eiba) - Minimum naval force limit set to 90%
Populists (Ali Alkali) - All admirals must be populist - annulled by Militarist rider (bunnyofdoom)

Bill PASSED

Post-session debate was again quite mild, most people congratulating each other on having produced quite reasonable legislation while the Populists grumbled (gently) about their rider having been annulled, though not apparently bearing much real ill-will for it. Voting was predictable, with everyone but most of the Populists voting for the bill and the Populists voting against. The biggest news was Wiz choosing to change the Senatorial rules, to no objections. The changes were: Eliminating annulments, allowing co-sponsors only from the same party as the proposed motion, eliminating the idea of "riders" vs "bills", and removing limits as to how much legislation can be suggested (though he did retain the right to choose which proposal went into the final bill). The idea of "most co-sponsors denotes which proposal makes it into the bill" does not appear to have surfaced yet. Wiz also mentions the possibility of introducing Party Icons next session. Thus ended the first (and quite dull) session.

Notable Quotes

Eiba: "That was crazy, but I'm quite happy with how it turned out."

Scant Consolation: "My congratulations to my fellow members of the Civic party, and to the senate as a whole. May this be the beginning of a glorious tradition of ignoring the populists and obstructing them at every turn."

A Pale Horse: "Seriously though, its all in good fun. This is going to be an awesome LP no matter what happens. Lets all try to remember its a game on the internet."

See? Concise, entertaining, easy to read. Think you can do something like this? Choose a session, 3-50. All are welcome!

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Sep 30, 2011

Magrov
Mar 27, 2010

I'm completely lost and have no idea what's going on. I'll be at my bunker.

If you need any diplomatic or mineral stuff just call me. If you plan to nuke India please give me a 5 minute warning to close the windows!


Also Iapetus sucks!
I might do a session or two. I'm torn between that one where Merry Marauder showed up to vote at the last minute and that one where you miscounted the votes and sent a wrong bill to the floor.

Kem Rixen
Aug 6, 2007

With this turnip I am become death, the destroyer of worlds!
That's a really neat way of doing it. Should make it much much easier to read for an archived version since the thread, even when it was new, was very hard to slog through sometimes. I might do one or two if I have some time, I'd need to review the sessions better. Have to make sure my Hebeists are included.

The Saurus
Dec 3, 2006

by Smythe

Magrov posted:

I might do a session or two. I'm torn between that one where Merry Marauder showed up to vote at the last minute

MERRY MARAUDER! :argh:

I was actually just reading over some of my glorious victories in the old thread, so I may do one of those.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost


Chapter 8: Vicious Cycle (1460 - 1470)

Muscowy attacks the Golden Horde at the start of the new year, triggering declarations of war on the Golden Horde from Qurighar and Cherson as well.


Back in Europe, the Bohemian Emperors continue to advance their positions by successfully creating the Reichsregiment, an Imperial governing body intended to strengthen the Empire as a whole.


Aram continues to build up the infrastructure of Azerbaijan, investing in markets and trade depots all over the country.


After three years of invasion from all sides, the Golden Horde is almost completely occupied by its enemies. Realizing the futility of further resistance, the Khan surrenders unconditionally and the victors take whatever spoils they desire.


Muscowy seizes a huge territory of Russian and Tartar lands...


... Qurighar takes the Horde's easternmost possessions...


... and Cherson seizes its Crimean lands, manydoubling the size of their territory in one fell swoop.


In 1465 war comes to Azerbaijan once more as Armenia declares war on Syria, and Aram feels forced to honor his alliance with the Syrians, hoping that they will be able to bear the brunt of the Armenian and Greek invasion.



This quickly proves a vain hope, as Armenian and Greek troops swarm over the Syrian border.


Other Armenian troops advance East into Azerbaijan, and Emin Sabiri meets them with the Azeri army. Aram has ordered him to fight defensively and under no circumstances advance into Armenian lands.


At first this strategy is successful, and numerous defeats are dealt to Armenian and Greek armies invading Azerbaijan.



Eventually however, numbers begin to tell, as manpower runs low and the losses in battle become harder and harder to replace. Finally a Nicaean army attacks Tabriz and routs the Azeri army.


Emin pulls back to the interior, raising mercenaries and fighting desperately to hold on to the provinces not already occupied by the enemy.



Forced to flee Tabriz and hide in the mountains, Prince Aydogdu falls gravely ill from exposure in the cold mountain climate. For a while he is close to death, but survives thanks to the attentions of the royal physician.


By 1468 almost the entire country is in enemy hands, and there is nowhere left to retreat to.


However, Syria has proven more resilient to enemy invasion and before the enemy armies can deliver the final blow to Azerbaijan, war-tired Armenia decides to make peace, taking Van from Syria and Georgia from Azerbaijan.


As one conflict ends, another begins. The Pope has excommunicated Italy for warring with Burgundy, and the King of Italy, rather than accept the humilation and try to make amends with Rome, has chosen to install a Pope of his own in Modena with the support of a handful of Cardinals. With two Popes now reigning in Italy, the Catholic Church is divided and for the moment, noone knows which Pope to answer to.


Cherson proves unable to hold on to its vast conquests as Crimean rebels declare independence in Zaporozhia.


Two consecutive defeats against Armenia has convinced Aram that Azerbaijan must invest more in its own defense, and he invites fortification experts from Greece to help create a new chain of forts on the Armenian border.



To get his mind off the shameful losses, he indulges in mysticism, inviting Sufi mystics and philosophers to practice their ways in Azerbaijan.


Azerbaijan appears trapped in a cycle of defeats, less and less able to defend itself against its stronger neighbour with each territory lost.

Can anything break this vicious cycle?



Wiz fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Oct 7, 2011

The Saurus
Dec 3, 2006

by Smythe
Great work on picking tolerance for heathens as our NI guyz!

Tempted to say we should just give it up, try to get Azerbaijan killed ASAP and get the mod released sooner rather than later.

Kainser
Apr 27, 2010

O'er the sea from the north
there sails a ship
With the people of Hel
at the helm stands Loki
After the wolf
do wild men follow

quote:

I realize that it's just a game mechanic that picks a random HRE province, but I find it hilarious that Burgundy would be OK with the emperor holding a diet in their territory to increase the strength of the empire :v:

Oh, and glorious Cherson :byzantium:

e; And yeah, we sure have a lot of heathens to be tolerant to now guys, way to go.

e2; Azerbaijan should just join in the next time Muscowy decides to beat up the Golden Horde piņata.

Kainser fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 30, 2011

iLurk
Jul 25, 2007

Who wants to get PREGNANT?!?

The Saurus posted:

Great work on picking tolerance for heathens as our NI guyz!


Because the other two idea's would of helped us so much more?

Looks like Russia is going to be forming soon!

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd
Yeah, good voting, guys.

Come on Azerbaijan, just pull one of your patented "flee across the worlds".

The Saurus
Dec 3, 2006

by Smythe
^^^ If only we had kept our black sea port, we could have invaded the Aztecs and made home in the new world.

iLurk posted:

Because the other two idea's would of helped us so much more?

National bank would have allowed us to mint more with no consequences, which could have been used to bribe our enemies, or obtain a strong second ally, or raise more mercenaries.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Nth-ing the "man, Humanist Tolerance sure was useful".

Any chance we can switch ideas, at least if the next king is a little less of a pussy? With all the territorial losses, the stab costs should be tiny.

Re: Battle of Alania, how come you fought the Thessalonians with a bigger army, an equally skilled general, on the defensive in presumably mountainous territory and still lost (and ate a ton more losses and WE than them)? Tech inferiority, a huge morale difference, or both?

NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Sep 30, 2011

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Kainser posted:

e; And yeah, we sure have a lot of heathens to be tolerant to now guys, way to go.

We're tolerating them from afar :colbert:

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


The Saurus posted:

Great work on picking tolerance for heathens as our NI guyz!

Tempted to say we should just give it up, try to get Azerbaijan killed ASAP and get the mod released sooner rather than later.

And not get a mod for Victoria 2? I don't think so. <:mad:>

Garenas
Sep 12, 2006

Nice Joystick

The Saurus posted:

Tempted to say we should just give it up, try to get Azerbaijan killed ASAP and get the mod released sooner rather than later.

This is the dumbest post, but the fact that people are thinking like this makes me want to encourage Wiz to release the mod before finishing the LP because, unfortunately, it's not having the effect of making people focus on the LP rather than focusing on the mod, it's making people wish the LP was over sooner.

seal it with a kiss
Sep 14, 2007

:3
No you see when we get annexed maybe we can convince the Armenians how great human tolerance is!

Popy
Feb 19, 2008

Off to Iceland...

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

NihilCredo posted:

Nth-ing the "man, Humanist Tolerance sure was useful".

Any chance we can switch ideas, at least if the next king is a little less of a pussy? With all the territorial losses, the stab costs should be tiny.

Re: Battle of Alania, how come you fought the Thessalonians with a bigger army, an equally skilled general, on the defensive in presumably mountainous territory and still lost (and ate a ton more losses and WE than them)? Tech inferiority, a huge morale difference, or both?

I won the Battle of Alania. The reason I took more losses was just bad dice rolls.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Garenas posted:

This is the dumbest post, but the fact that people are thinking like this makes me want to encourage Wiz to release the mod before finishing the LP because, unfortunately, it's not having the effect of making people focus on the LP rather than focusing on the mod, it's making people wish the LP was over sooner.

OK, how's this: If I get annexed, I'll sit on the mod for 3 months before releasing it.

That should nip any calls for defeat in the bud.

Darth Windu
Mar 17, 2009

by Smythe
National Bank would not have helped at all, you people don't know poo poo about this game.

Brutus Salad
Nov 8, 2009

Best buddies forever! :3:
Wiz posted some better Japan maps in the IRC if anyone wanted to see them :
Start:

Current:

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Darth Windu posted:

National Bank would not have helped at all, you people don't know poo poo about this game.

Seriously, this. It's not like I chose defeat over minting, there's just only so many mercenaries you can buy, especially with half the country occupied.

MadPierrot
Nov 4, 2009

we are all dead men on leave
I think most people voted for Humanist Tolerance because it was a refreshing change of pace from dull powergaming and/or Islamic Fascist Mordor. I highly doubt anyone actually thought that it would make us best friends with Armenia or the Greek states.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.
Fun Shoe

seal it with a kiss posted:

No you see when we get annexed maybe we can convince the Armenians how great human tolerance is!

They already have both Humanist Tolerance and Ecumenicism. The Armenians will tolerate the gently caress out of you.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe

Wiz posted:

OK, how's this: If I get annexed, I'll sit on the mod for 3 months before releasing it.

That should nip any calls for defeat in the bud.

As someone who's just watching and enjoying this, thank you.

Jimmy4400nav
Apr 1, 2011

Ambassador to Moonlandia
So wait, we don't tart the game with level 1 forts? No wonder thongs haven't been going so well. Well not that we can actually fortify stuff, I think we might be able to do better now. At least now we can scorch the earth and let our foes wither on the vine as they foolishly try to take our lands :hist101:

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

quote:

e2; Azerbaijan should just join in the next time Muscowy decides to beat up the Golden Horde piņata.

If our King wasn't basically the biggest wimp I would have. My fingers were itching to take Astrakhan.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Jimmy4400nav posted:

So wait, we don't tart the game with level 1 forts? No wonder thongs haven't been going so well. Well not that we can actually fortify stuff, I think we might be able to do better now. At least now we can scorch the earth and let our foes wither on the vine as they foolishly try to take our lands :hist101:

All provinces have fort level 1 even without any forts built. Level 1 fort built = fort level 2 total.

I've majorly nerfed Scorch Earth, so you can't use it as an instant win button.

Slow Loris
Nov 7, 2005

Please sir, may I have some more?

MadPierrot posted:

I think most people voted for Humanist Tolerance because it was a refreshing change of pace from dull powergaming and/or Islamic Fascist Mordor. I highly doubt anyone actually thought that it would make us best friends with Armenia or the Greek states.

Exactly this. If you're playing EU3 to win, you're doing it wrong.

Jimmy4400nav
Apr 1, 2011

Ambassador to Moonlandia

Wiz posted:

All provinces have fort level 1 even without any forts built.

Ah, so does this mean we get to fortify even more or do we have to wait for fort level 2?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Ah, so does this mean we get to fortify even more or do we have to wait for fort level 2?

Yeah, a province with a level 1 fort built will have fort level 2.

The Saurus
Dec 3, 2006

by Smythe

Slow Loris posted:

Exactly this. If you're playing EU3 to win, you're doing it wrong.

Playing it to survive is fairly common, though. Maybe if we get annexed Wiz can just do handsoff updates for us anyway. One of the best parts of paradox LPs is all the crazy poo poo the player doesn't even have a hand in anyway.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the hEnd
Also, if you're interested in writing summaries, let me know so I can add you to the list

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART
Aram's been useful for his reforms, but what we really need right now is his more military-minded heir to come to power to take back our rightful clay (and also Astrakhan).

Cowcatcher
Dec 23, 2005

OUR PEOPLE WERE BORN OF THE SKY
Poor Serbia got kicked back to square one

What's that other country in Bosnia?

Talas
Aug 27, 2005

Who's colonizing the Caribbean? Portugal?

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

Not even EU3 can prevent Azerbaijan from getting continually kicked in the nuts.

In 50 years we'll probably end up in India or something.

meatbag
Apr 2, 2007
Clapping Larry
Oh no, one lost war, whatever will we do!

Tolerance is great, and it will pay off in the end. :colbert:

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Cowcatcher posted:

Poor Serbia got kicked back to square one

What's that other country in Bosnia?

Muscowy (somehow)

Talas posted:

Who's colonizing the Caribbean? Portugal?

Yep, Portugal is colonzing the Caribbean and Atlantic Isles, Morocco is colonizing the African coast.

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Rejected Fate
Aug 5, 2011

And we're back to square one again. Blast.

One day, Armenia! You think you can take our ancient enemy from our boots? Never. We will rule the South Caucasus.

We must consult Allah himself to guide us. From the use of plant life, a symbol of Allah and his creative nature. And we shall burn this plant life and smoke it, as we are the land of eternal fire.

Sufi Mysticism, ho!

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