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Wiz posted:Also, I really need a flag for Kangsu. Well, since it isn't a Chinese led state, you can't just default to a Chinese character. However, since they did in fact conquer Shaanxi, they could base the capital in Xi'an, and have the flag based around what would be an incredibly glorified monument, that being the first mosque ever built in China, the Great Mosque of Xi'an. That mosque has stood since 742, so I'd wager the Muslim Timur successor would rally around it to bolster the local support of his cause. Plus towers make cool flags. That, or you make a flag written in Sini, the Chinese calligraphy script style for arabic. I don't know how historically ancient the script is, but it could also make a good flag assuming you find someone able to do it. I'd also argue that Ningxia is a far weaker capital, as Shaanxi/Xi'an has a far more storied and romantic history and landmarks relevant to Islam. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Sep 4, 2011 |
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Sep 4, 2011 04:31
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Pakled posted:My new favorite country is Dali. Dali isn't actually all that new, since it existed as an independent kingdom that was eventually conquered by the Ming. It makes sense that a early fallen Ming would see a second Kingdom of Dali rise again in this warlord period. Their interests might be less "unify China" however since that's a very outlier state in China. Also Buddhism was their main religion so I hope this reflects in this resurrected state, as it's only had 150 years of cultural shift and probably didn't have much Chinese investment considering Timur's interest in taking China.
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Sep 4, 2011 04:38
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Wiz posted:I was thinking of it more strategically really - placing your capital right on the border of all those Chinese states that hate your guts might not be the best idea. They did it in the Civil War in the USA with Richmond, and many other times. Heck, even in Chinese history you could argue Beijing's existence as the main capital was a poor one, thus why Southern China was ruled out of Nanjing and other various outlier "capitals". Sometimes people will forsake intelligence for glory. And Kangsu's purpose is ultimately to conquer the rest of China, not just stop there.
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Sep 4, 2011 04:40
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Ogianres posted:Does Kangsu get an immediate government upgrade if they unify (enough of) China? I'd wager they'd need Beijing and the core coastal region to make the conquest complete. How are you planning the Chinese unification events to work? China shouldn't be divided for the entirety of the EU3 timeline, it would be almost silly since no warlord period lasted that long. (Although I could see a few outlier states stay independent such as Dali and what not.)
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Sep 4, 2011 04:48
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Out of curiosity, where did you pull the name Kangsu from?Wiz posted:They can form Qing. Interesting dynasty name choice as Qing means essentially "clear" but I would prefer the character for "Zhen" 真 as it can mean truth and is used by the Chinese for Muslim institutions, which is 清真， or literally "clear truth." Since it's a Muslim founded state, spreading the "truth" would be a dynasty cornerstone I'd imagine. Save the Qing for the Manchus, I'd say. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Sep 4, 2011 |
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Sep 4, 2011 04:52
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Patter Song posted:I like the idea of having several unification routes. One would be the Manchus: if the Manchus hold both Beijing and Nanjing, they become the Qing and get a ton of cores. One would be an ordinary Chinese state, and...own and core Beijing, Nanjing, Guangdong, and something else, become "China," gain cores on all China? The third would be a nomadic Muslim thing and would reform the Yuan Dynasty. Well, you could have the generic state if it formed after a certain period just be literally "The Middle Empire/Kingdom" if it was Han based and they didn't want to adopt a character to their dynasty, (aka full of themselves.)
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Sep 4, 2011 05:01
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Tomn posted:If we have "Nan Han", where's "Bei Han"? Just because a state names itself South Han doesn't mean there needs to be a North. The Warlords don't divide themselves to be sperglords, they name themselves whatever they please. Example: The Jin Dynasty is a rename harking back to the glory days of the Manchu led Jin dynasty that conquered the Beijing area during the Northern Song period. The Wu is naming themselves after the Romance of the Three Kingdoms Wu. Really, only Dali (which isn't even truly "Chinese" at this point) Kangsu (Naming itself after what the Mongolians heard it get called by Uighurs) and Wuyue are named after what they actually "are". The rest are just glorified states Kanthulhu posted:Yes. As for the "Zen" part I hope you mean Zhen. Reveilled posted:Regarding the unification tag for China being Qing, and whether that would be appropriate for Kangsu, couldn't you just call the unification tag "China"? I think Wiz is making different dynasty tags depending on who founds it. Qi, Qin, Wu, and the "single character" states have no reason to change their names if they form a new united dynasty. Dali would never form a dynasty historically speaking as they are a backwater nation that has no real desire to conquer all of china, itself being an isolated mountain kingdom that isn't as cold as Tibet. (Basically they're a Tibet that got sinicized during the Ming period). Kangsu would need one since it wouldn't make sense for itself to call it after the geographic location. Manchu taking China would become Qing, like normal history dictated. I'd suggest if Nan Han united they'd also have a special character name for them, as the Nan Han would be a Canton ruling dynasty, and Wuyue would be a Wu people ruling dynasty. Their names are both based on ethnic groups and not a "dynasty period" name as most dynasties take up. But these southern dynasties wouldn't exactly be a big change from say a Ming, Song, or Tang period, so they wouldn't really be changing much. I can think up names if we want to be big spergs about it. edit: Wuyue I forgot was in fact a Kingdom and one of the oddest things a Chinese ruler ever did, where they combined two old dynasty names and made theirs. I think Wuyue keeping its name even if they united all of China would be a good thing. Basically, China as a political entity and not a dynasty should not happen until Victoria unless they somehow westernize as the Chinese had no reason to think any other system was better considering how well dynasties did for them for hundreds of years, as they were always at worst regional powers in an era where regional powers was the best you could be. I'd say this for the union tags until westernization: 1) Kangsu forms Zhen, a Muslim Turkic ruling class 2) Manchu forms Qing, a Manchu ruling class (normal history) 3) All non-multi character states (excluding Wuyue) do not name change and form a Confucian led Han ruling class 4) Nan Han forms a Cantonese led ruling class that would change the name to merely a second "Han" since I find that hilarious and glory-seeking. 5) Dali would also need a single character name just in case we want a buddhist led state. 6) The Mongol Khanate reforms the Yuan. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Sep 4, 2011 |
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Sep 4, 2011 15:17
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Kanthulhu posted:Whatever it is that you typed before. I don't speak Chinese. Fair 'nuff. Although a Buddhist nation naming itself Zen would be like something out of an anime 
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Sep 4, 2011 15:25
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Dibujante posted:If islamic mongols conquer China it will not be China - the notion of a celestial empire with roughly the borders of China is a strongly confucian one - thus, the Manchu had the cultural framework to take over the throne. Islamic conquerors, unless they had been already sinicized, would be more likely to take over as much of China as they could and append it to their existing empire, a la the Mughals. After a while, though, they might become sinicized and declare themselves to be a celestial dynasty. It's not a given though. The Yuan did it. And considering Kangsu is led out of Shaanxi (Xi'an, one of the most historically and culturally important chinese cities) and has no non-"chinese" territory, I'd imagine that they would already be partially sinicized. If another muslim did it? Then your idea works great. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Sep 4, 2011 |
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Sep 4, 2011 15:35
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Tomn posted:I admit that my knowledge of Chinese dynastic naming systems is pretty poor, but if they can name themselves whatever they please regardless of geographical merit, why go for the Southern Han in particular instead of the Han? There's a lot more glory attached to the latter, after all. Is the Han itself just too sacrosanct to be taken by anyone but the unifier of China? I actually agreed with you there, the "Han" would be a good name. Or many other names harking back to old southern dynasties. Or they could just be strange and make their name a combination of two dynasties through together, like Wuyue. Sometimes though, the empires did follow geographic/location conventions, it was just rare and usually for a reason not similar to this. The Song Dynasty for example was even eventually called Southern Song when they lost their capital and moved it south.
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Sep 5, 2011 16:38
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Something is awesome about Azerbaijan, Khwarzim, and Azerbaijan taking on the pagans of the Golden Horde. When you win, please make sure that Astrakhan is freed and protected. I don't want the jews in Azerbaijan, but we can befriend (exploit) them for money in the future in our "tributes" (Meaningless wars of bank draining) Also, Kangsu is the rightful controller of the Zhen Dynasty. 
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Sep 17, 2011 22:47
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Rejected Fate posted:Yesssss, glorious trade... No heretical jew is a friend of the Azeris. We clearly must liberate (subjugate) them as our vassal for all that delicious money. Especially since we have no core on the COT and I don't want our trade to tank this early.
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Sep 17, 2011 22:51
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Rejected Fate posted:Perhaps we can give them some breathing time and then when they are sufficiently liberated we can educate them under our enlightened rule. That would surely be more profitable. For them, I mean, obviously. Of course. We must contain them, as there are many pagans that don't even follow the true god around them. If we don't, their heresy might spread.
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Sep 17, 2011 22:56
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theblastizard posted:So Kangsu is in our culture group? They're uighurs and muslims so yes.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:09
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Kavak posted:What's all this "Capture Astrakhan" stuff? Looking at our comparative forces, we'll be lucky to get out with a white peace. Do not question the right and might of the Celestial Emperor of Zhen.
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Sep 17, 2011 23:21
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Guys I just realized this. Outside of Constantinople not under a domain the orthodox world is reunited by land with Cherson's conquests.
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Oct 1, 2011 02:25
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Who is Cherson throwing their hat in with? Honestly this is an incredibly interesting scenario for the various things happening in this world. The Byzantine successor states are all having their own politics, being held together tentatively by Armenia, the tolerant power that has a streak for reclaiming it's old territories and reclaiming it's days of glory over all Armenians, most importantly Antioch and Yerevan I'd imagine. The greek states meanwhile are unable to take back Constantinople, instead slowly building their power up, while Cherson stews in lands not its own over subjects not necessarily greek as they look North to possibly grow so their deluded emperors can claim a new roman empire. China is in a state of total war, states allying with others and factions fighting as the states get eaten with others, while the Uigher armies, boosted by Timur's tactics, want a piece of the pie, with Kangsu and Qurighar looming from the west. The Iberian peninsula was split into war over control, with Aragon and Castille working against the Reconquista for their own glory of being "the true enders of Islam in Iberia" with Al-Andalus in a precarious position. Aragon currently has the upper hand but they are one revolt away from a Castillian uprising and another 100 years of in-fighting and a divided Iberia. Kabul meanwhile is striking terror into northern India, but instead of going for the throat is taking control and the loyalties of the gurka forces before it forms it's own grand empire. Miss any other interesting stories?
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Oct 1, 2011 16:03
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Wiz posted:I don't think anyone really takes issue with the fact that Europe is the main focus of a game called Europa Universalis, it's more the blatantly lazy/orientalist poo poo like grouping half of Asia into one culture group or Africans not knowing what horses are. Speaking of Asia, Kangsu looks to be the leading state in China, and Ikko-Ikki continues to grow as well. I kind of want Morocco to colonize SOMEWHERE in the New World though, and hopefully Netherlands can get in on it soon as well. Bulgaria also is looking pretty strong. Also I see Iceland has begun colonizing Greenland.
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Oct 5, 2011 18:57
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 A and A
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Oct 6, 2011 02:10
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Is it just me or is colonization happening WAY too fast? It's only 1550 and we already got a lot of the new world taken over. This tech speed range is kind of ridiculous.
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Oct 7, 2011 05:09
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 I love centralized bureaucracy!
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Oct 12, 2011 05:17
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Patter Song posted:If the Cabinet owes its existence to Servant, clearly the result of passing it must be Wiz taking Servant's advice. Tempted to change my vote.
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Oct 13, 2011 00:17
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This thread is slowly becoming corrupt.
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Oct 13, 2011 00:33
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Wiz posted:Guys, 2-3 diplomats a year is not a crippling handicap. More diplomats is nice, but it's not the end of the earth to just have a few diplomats. Stop influencing the vote! This is the wheels of democracy turning.
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Oct 13, 2011 01:09
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Wiz changed Mali's colors a few times thus the random color changes. It was always Mali.
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Nov 23, 2011 08:06
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SlothfulCobra posted:I still don't quite understand how China has managed to keep a broad range of cultural groups under its sway, but aren't most African countries in the same boat as middle eastern ones in that their current borders are just something that the great powers slapped on there with no regard to actual ethnic differences? China had the benefit of a united writing system and the eventual fusion of all cultures because of it. It's pretty homogenous now compared to India, for example.
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Jan 11, 2012 08:52
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Honestly the population centers would probably be far more "islamicized" since that's where all the ruling class live. The peasants would still hold onto their folk beliefs in the countryside, whereas in the cities the Confucianized Islam minority would live. They'd be a majority in their concentrations, but a minority anywhere else. Also the south would have a very poor islamic tradition, whereas the capital (and holiest city for Zhen) would be the epicenter.
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Jan 11, 2012 23:02
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Patter Song posted:Seriously, Morocco is tough for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that even though you have a few good provinces, the lovely desert drags you down a lot. Furthermore, Castille, Aragon, and Portugal all have a serious hardon for invading North Africa that only begins to calm down when they have a New World to keep them busy...you will be at war with one or more of them by 1410. There's very little good land in neighboring Algiers to expand into (though Tunis, the capital of Tunisia, is a fantastic province). You also have stupidly close access to Brazil which can generate some pretty delicious provinces as well as first dibs on any of the good African colonies. Also Zhen Dynasty is really all up to however Wiz writes it. There are a lot of Chinese analogs he can easily pick throughout history to make it however he deems best.
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Jan 12, 2012 04:24
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Raldan posted:That's funny, I played Morocco for my first real game (where I didn't play a lovely nation that gets conquered in 10 years). I did surprisingly well. I suppose Castile and Aragon were more concerned with infighting instead of invading Africa. When they did decide to invade, they tended to beat down on Algiers or Tunisia instead. The only big problem I had was having an initially weak navy. Given a decade or two to build a navy up, I felt I was pretty invasion proof, and had some ability to colonize Brazil. Wouldn't taking Portugal be a better "first step"?
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Jan 12, 2012 05:21
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Can the East Asian nations have tag stakes on the west coast regions? It's almost never going to happen but it's nice and doable in game mechanics without cheesing to hard by a player. Especially with Korea/Japan/China.
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Jan 12, 2012 18:49
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Hyord posted:Excuse me you ignorant savages, but if Mexico gets to keep its name on account of being a derivative of "Mexica" which is Nahuatl for "Aztec" or something like that, then Canada should definitely continue to be called some derivative of "Kanata" since that is the First Nations' (or indigenous peoples') word for "settlement"/"village"/"land." That implies that the religious Norwegian zealots would have cared when they really only care about one person. Their lord and savior Dr. Tough posted:I don't think that Kanthulhu was being serious... This. Also yeah I think the answer was obvious and just used in argument to show how silly changing everything's name is. The Manchu and Mongolians give us an excellent precedent for writing the plausibility of Zhen. Honestly Zhen is the most "radical" yet "normal" simulation we've probably gotten. It just required Timurid to live a little longer and prey on the weakened Chinese state at the time. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 14, 2012 |
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Jan 14, 2012 19:45
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Mirdini posted:Just binged on this LP over the past two days and I have to say amazing job Wiz, it's been a pretty great read. While I'd read the KoJ LP a while ago on the LP archive I've never read the Hohen LP so I suppose that's going to keep me busy for another few days. Shame I can't really contribute to the current flagchat since I'm artistically incompetent, but I'm definitely looking forward to the next Shura council (and heck the next update before then). Suggestions on good flag ideas if descriptive are always welcome. I helped with making the Zhen dynasty flag despite having very little photoshop abilities. (I just told them the character to use)
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Jan 20, 2012 20:46
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How did Zhen lose a lot of its non-Chinese Southeast Asian holdings but gained a few more Chinese provinces? Also go Khmer!
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Jan 24, 2012 19:43
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Will these renounced claims matter if/when a new Armenia tries to rise up during Vicky? Also looks like Zhen and Ikko-Ikki are picking up the remaining pieces now. Also Poland took all the Baltic, and Burgundy almost has everything it needs to be purple France. Cherokee lost some land  C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 02:52
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What do the Khazari Jews think of us? If there is a really huge revolt I hope they take over and then the Jewish Khazars, the long holders of our money, will finally be in power.
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Jan 25, 2012 02:57
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Wiz posted:Because I didn't make separate tags for Portugese vs Spanish Peru. I know it's a little silly but it's the only place where two countries will revolt into the same tag, just bear with it. Can you give the Cherokee back that part of Mississippi. Cherokee seriously have the ugliest of borders. Also Zhen calling a war a jihad seems so wrong to me. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 03:58
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Pakled posted:The division of Japan between the more xenophobic, aristocratic northern part and the more outward-looking, mercantile southern part seems like an interesting mechanic. I hope it lasts into Vicky. Date has lost a lot of its provinces and is now pretty badly outnumbered since the northern provinces are bigger and less resourceful. They'll be gone way before Vicky. 5% of the population controls 100% of our CoTs. Occupy Astrakhan.
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Jan 25, 2012 05:28
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Is it just me or has this mod given us some really pretty final borders? Europe only has Bulgaria looking like a mess. The new world is in revolt so that is expected. East Asia is wrapping up nicely. Really the ugliest places are just Africa and Southeast Asia. Wiz, what do you plan to do with Africa? Are you just going to grant all the colonial powers there small strips of land? Also Ethiopia left a tribal government yet?
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Jan 26, 2012 21:00
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Hey Wiz, what exactly is Dali now? They don't even control their traditional homeland anymore.
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Jan 26, 2012 21:10
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Wiz posted:On Ikko-Ikki, let's try to remember that countries are not frozen in time just because they're Japanese. The present country with almost four hundred years of republican tradition and development has little to do with its 15th century buddhist sect roots. Hey Wiz, what exactly is going on with Dali? Do they even control any of their original people anymore?
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Jan 27, 2012 05:38
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