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Feinne posted:Law is without any question the only proper choice in any of the modern SMT games (and almost every choice is a Law choice in some of the earlier ones, even the Chaos choice). Finally, someone else who gets it! Everything is Law, the only difference is that one particular side (namely the player side) gets to impose its values on everyone else through force. Even Neutral is guilty of this, if not the most guilty since it has even more bloodshed. What hypocrites. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2011 around 15:23 |
| # ? Aug 7, 2011 15:19 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 12:42 |
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Feinne should change his avatar to actually be Mastema, thus completing these theater of video game philosophy.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 15:23 |
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Don't count your chickens before they hatch, Strange Matter. Feinne's Remiel comment intrigued me greatly, considering the game that Remiel recently starred in has a move named "Holy Dance". (In case the joke is not obvious, the picture my avatar comes from, linked here, should be enlightening.)
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 15:24 |
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Man, gotta catch up on the Devil Summoner 2 thread. I'll probably throw in some passwords if I feel like taking the time to pull out my DS cart.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 15:44 |
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You should do Madrick's Strength choices.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 15:52 |
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Tallgeese posted:Finally, someone else who gets it! Everything is Law, the only difference is that one particular side (namely the player side) gets to impose its values on everyone else through force. Even Neutral is guilty of this, if not the most guilty since it has even more bloodshed. What hypocrites. I mean of course Nocturne is the truest and most obvious example. There are four Law endings, including the one most people would consider the 'good' ending, a Neutral ending where you destroy everything out of useless spite, and a Chaos ending where you do the same thing as the Neutral ending but also decide to work for Lucifer.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 16:16 |
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Any interest in a password generator? I have one over at gameFAQs. The link should still work.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 16:48 |
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You know it is real philosophy when all the terms are defined into something completely meaningless. Truly we are the most blessed of threads.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 17:26 |
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All the mention of Law just makes me think of the really bad Judge Dredd live action movie.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 17:31 |
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Davzz posted:All the mention of Law just makes me think of the Yes, I really think Atlus should bring in Judge Dredd at some point just to finally explain
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 17:37 |
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UberJew posted:You know it is real philosophy when all the terms are defined into something completely meaningless.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 17:49 |
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This law talk just leaves me confused since I actually have little to no experience with mainline SMT.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 18:14 |
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Well in most SMT games my choice tends to boil down to 'You are all assholes and I'm choosing whatever option lets me punch you in the face. Or a Megidolaon, I'm not picky.' Thankfully the more recent SMT games have been better about making people not as big assholes. Let's see if Devil Survivor 2 keeps up the trend.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 18:16 |
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Waffleman_ posted:This law talk just leaves me confused since I actually have little to no experience with mainline SMT. This is a series where even literal angels are classified as "demons". Let's just say that none of the choices are really the best ones for humanity. Except for the one where all the monsters are dead and you have all the demons serving you.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 18:47 |
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I like question 6. You don't often get so practical.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 18:48 |
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RentCavalier posted:This is a series where even literal angels are classified as "demons". Let's just say that none of the choices are really the best ones for humanity. Except for the one where all the monsters are dead and you have all the demons serving you. Isn't "demon" mostly a translation thing? I think the Japanese term is more like "spirits" or something. At least I don't think it has all the connotations "demon" has for the Western audience.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 18:59 |
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The distinction is made a bit trickier because SMT, especially the main SMT games, are all directly built upon Judeo-Christian theology filtered through Japanese sensibilities, so it's sorta difficult to figure out exactly what they're talking about.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 19:08 |
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Feinne posted:I mean of course Nocturne is the truest and most obvious example. There are four Law endings, including the one most people would consider the 'good' ending, a Neutral ending where you destroy everything out of useless spite, and a Chaos ending where you do the same thing as the Neutral ending but also decide to work for Lucifer. I have no idea how the True Demon ending is anything related to Law whatsoever.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 19:11 |
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Ditch the gun and use the knife York's a man's man. He can do fine with a knife with his training. Find a way to do both. This guy has tact and strategy. When things seem bleak, York has the ability to make the impossible possible. Wait as long as it takes. York is equipped with enough rations to double what he was given. Hurry and rescue him. Abandoning allies in the heart of battle? Can't be done, bro. Put him under house arrest. Just to make sure this guy is really legit or not. Yes. Hell yeah it's possible. 
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 19:46 |
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Azure_Horizon posted:I have no idea how the True Demon ending is anything related to Law whatsoever. That's the Chaos ending. The ending where you just destroy Kagutsuchi and thwart the Vortex World's rebirth is the closest thing to a Neutral ending, whereas all four endings where the Vortex World actually creates a new world are Law endings no matter what sort of world is created because the creation of a new world is Law's only objective in Nocturne. Yes, even the one where you support the sort-of Reason that restores the world to the way it was before the Conception, because even if it's not a proper Reason as far as Kagutsuchi is concerned the Vortex World is perfectly willing to reform in that way. Azure_Horizon posted:Oh, jeez, I misread your post. My bad! Ain't no thing. Until I really thought about what was going on I wouldn't have really gotten how there was a Law ending at all in Nocturne. Feinne fucked around with this message at Aug 7, 2011 around 20:40 |
| # ? Aug 7, 2011 20:34 |
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Feinne posted:That's the Chaos ending. The ending where you just destroy Kagutsuchi and thwart the Vortex World's rebirth is the closest thing to a Neutral ending, whereas all four endings where the Vortex World actually creates a new world are Law endings no matter what sort of world is created because the creation of a new world is Law's only objective in Nocturne. Oh, jeez, I misread your post. My bad!
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 20:37 |
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Tallgeese posted:This man speaks the truth. It is severely difficult to justify any ending but Law's on an objective level. However, once emotional attachments enter the picture, the waters of intellectual thought become significantly more murky. Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to depict Gin's ending as a bad outcome on the whole. Rather, it's... a non-outcome. Law is naturally the best path for any Rawlsian thinker, although its precise outcome is left vague in Devil Survivor (if memory serves, it's something about man living in fear of god and lies or wrongdoing disappearing), and Atsuro's, Naoya's and Yuzu's endings are terrible on the whole. I'd like, for once, to see Chaos depicted as the desire to free the miserable from the oppressive private, public and international power systems under which they suffer. In that sense, we'd be shattering order (justifying its depiction as Chaos) for the sake of the chronically downtrodden. I barely played any of Strange Journey, but if Jimenez is the figurehead for Chaos, I'm almost certainly going to vote law.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 20:49 |
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LightningKimba posted:Ditch the gun and use the knife York's a man's man. He can do fine with a knife with his training. This except change the first one to Remain hidden. York hiding from the raincoat killer was a huge key moment of the game and came up numerous times.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 20:58 |
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Strange Matter posted:I don't know what the outcome of these answers are, but I know what Francis York would do! Going with this also.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 22:14 |
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Frankly, I've never really had much affection for the LAW/CHAOS/NEUTRAL dynamic in most SMT games. Nocturne has three established philosophies, one neutral philosophy, and two "other" outcomes which are essentially you abandoning the world and letting it fester forever, either as a servant of Lucifer or as a slavering, mindless demon. In this way it was a lot more interesting, as each philosophy had its own followers, gods, and doctrines, and everything seemed a lot less black and white. I always go neutral by default simply because when I played Nocturne, my viewpoint was "my god, this is horrible, look at what has happened to the world" and all I really wanted to do was to make everything the way it was again--especially once my "friends" started trying to kill me. It also helps that Neutral is usually the toughest route to take and thus the most rewarding. Also the route where you punch the most gods. I play SMT games for one reason, and that reason is to maximize my god-punching quota, so...natch.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 22:59 |
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RentCavalier posted:Also the route where you punch the most gods. I play SMT games for one reason, and that reason is to maximize my god-punching quota, so...natch. You punch all those gods, plus Metatron and Lucifer, on the True Demon path, which is the one I've always taken.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2011 23:57 |
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Luisfe posted:Demonica OS: "You are piloting a helicopter to refuel. En route, an ally under attack requests help. You can help him, but it will take your remaining fuel, and it will be difficult to leave afterward. Other pilots have also received the distress signal, but you are closest to his position." Does anyone else find that third option totally absurd? If you're low on fuel and he needs immediate help, why in the world would "land and wait" even cross your mind as a useful idea? Are you just trying to get a good video of his fiery death on your cell phone for Youtube or something?
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 00:09 |
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Update tomorrow since PNGout takes like 2 hours to process a batch of 150 images. Or something. Maybe I should tweak the settings some more. Edit Or today due to unexpected intestinal distress preventing sleep. Yeah. That. Luisfe fucked around with this message at Aug 8, 2011 around 05:12 |
| # ? Aug 8, 2011 04:04 |
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LightningKimba posted:Ditch the gun and use the knife York's a man's man. He can do fine with a knife with his training. Don't know if voting is still allowed, but change the last answer to continue to watch him for now. We may have our suspicions, but we're going for a tight case and we don't want to draw attention to the fact that we're on to him. Besides, we'll be missing out on excellent opportunities to do let him do ourselves a favor (by giving us more evidence).
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 04:17 |
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Update 3 Knives shall be used to ambush the enemy. Unless it breaks, of course. THat would be terrible.  York shall focus on the task at hand, he shall not deviate at the moment.  Waiting as long as possible, but bailing out if it cannot be done anymore.  Of course he would help! It's the right thing to do after all.  Blah.  It's not that it will succeed, it's that it CANNOT fail. Not while York is there.  Demonica OS: "The supposrt type best suited to your tendencies is determined to be technical support."   "But do not let that daunt you. You have your Demonicas, and what's more, you have iron wills!"  >"You can now check any documents you have on file. A new document has been added to the mission log: Schwarzwelt Investigation Team Demonica Alignment Mission Log" >"New information has been added to the mission briefing for Demonica"  Let's see what that is all about.  There it goes, that is York's status screen. His highest stat is Magic, and he nulls Expel. That's good. It's not Masakados-good of course, nothing is that.  "1: Extensible applications. Both the main app and its functions vital for the investigation, as well as the Sub Apps, are expandable. 2: Battle Optimization. The Demonica optimizes its performance based on the user's experience in battle. This optimization provides the user with improved physical performance. 3: Adjustable Equipment. Users may add weapons, armor or accesories for even more flexibility. Note: Your Demonica's key growth area is Magic."  Fourth wall breaking? What of my immersion? MY IMMERSION IS RUINED NOW. Now if you excuse me I will just go and play New Vegas instead.   "Organization: Personnel are split between four next-generation transports, each equipped with plasma shields and the ability to travel by both land and air. Ship 1: The Red Sprite Will act as central command for the general operation. Ship 2: The Blue Jet Will provide military support for the other ships Ship 3: The Elve Staffed with many scientists, it will be the mission's investigative core. Ship 4: The Gigantic Also provides military support."  The game also possesses ingame achievements. Those are always fun.  Right now, York only possesses a single skill, Fire Shot. Eventually we will see many, many different skills. Also, notice that the money is undefined. There is zero, yes, but of what currency?  And now we see the layout of the Deck area.   "So you volunteered, I hear? Heh... Me, I only signed on to this gig for the money. That's all. For all we know, the brass at the Joint Project are sending us out as meat shields. And I'm sure you have no idea what I'm talking about. Semper fi, right? Heh..." It would be rude not to, after all. This is the choice that will be taken, but the results of both will be shown.  "I have this thing abotu not getting too friendly with people before a risky mission. When the crunch comes, you may need to leave a comrade behind for the sake of the mission." "Yeah... Let's not get too friendly. No telling whether one of us might need to leave the other to die for the sake of the mission... You still want something from me? I got nothing else to say to you, man." Let's see if this suited-up fellow is slightly less assholish about everything.  Strike Team: "I feel like there's no mission I can't accomplish with this thing on. Hah, listen to me. I better look over the briefing notes before I get too lovestruck with the thing. I can view those in the Documents folder in the Mission Log, right? Isn-t this your first time using the Demonica, too? You really should check this stuff out."  Back to the command area.  Monitor Crew: "There's a rumor going around that there's intelligent life in the Schwarzwelt. The drones we sent in ahead of us were destroyed "in a manner inconsistent with accidents." ...Well, it's just a rumor. Our job is to find out the truth."  Well, that is what the Strike Team member said.   "I'll explain... When human activity exceeds the world's natural capacity, and the balance of energy topples... A corrective reaction occurs. It's simplest to think of it as Earth's antibodies attacking humanity. Dr. Hammerschmidt's theory involved a prediction... He believed another dimension would appear, one where intelligent life dwelled. Now the Schwarzwelt has appeared, proving the existence of other dimensions... And the destruction of the drones implies the possibility of intelligent life inside... Or so some are saying. I'm still wondering if it's actually true..." "... Not committing one way or the other yet, mm? It may not be possible to reach a conclusion based on my rather simplistic explanation, but... Quibbling over evidence and proof is everything for us scientists. You haven't been trained for it. I am sorry to have imposed on you with such a strange question." That was the choice taken, let's now see what the other two responses would've said.  "I am not one to draw conclusions without sufficient evidence, but... If there are intelligent beings in there, I most certainly intend to proceed with caution." "Yes, that's what most normal people would say. It's hard enough trying to enter the place, let alone conceiving of anything living in there... We shouldn't come to conclusions until we've seen something with our own eyes." And then it is just a question of exploring the other two areas. Afterwards, an announcement is received. That announcement and the next events will be posted in the next update.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 06:55 |
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I remember thinking the starting was pretty slow when I first played it. My opinion hasn't changed much upon reading this parts of the LP.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 08:08 |
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So we got Magic type huh? I always found it weird that gun abilities are tied to Strength in this game. In previous SMT games with guns it was always stat-independent (except perhaps Agility for going first in a round.) I wonder why they didn't use Magic instead, since that would be the more natural thoughts of anyone who's ever played RPGs before.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 08:17 |
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Gore is an excellent commander and charismatic leader. I am certain that with him supporting us, our mission will succeed, no matter what threats come our way.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 08:22 |
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Davzz posted:So we got Magic type huh? They're actually air-propelled guns that need to be pumped before firing, and this entire sequence is just the imagination-induced illusion of a kid in his mum's SUV on the way to the snow with his friends. They'll be having a toy shootout with halloween masks on.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 12:41 |
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RentCavalier posted:Gore is an excellent commander and charismatic leader. I am certain that with him supporting us, our mission will succeed, no matter what threats come our way. So how messy a death do you think he'll have? We talking something you can take care of with a mop or do we need to break out a hose?
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 13:39 |
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I guess it could be worse than us having the magic-type Demonica. I'm not sure how but it could be worse. Maybe we could have gotten a broken one that levels down. I'm pretty sure that Magic is the only stat that will actually make a fight HARDER on us later for being high. Strange Matter posted:The difficulty imposed upon us by our technical limitations will only make our ultimate success that much more virtuous. Fitting that this ordeal would be all the more challenging due to our own hubris. Feinne fucked around with this message at Aug 8, 2011 around 14:09 |
| # ? Aug 8, 2011 13:55 |
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The difficulty imposed upon us by our technical limitations will only make our ultimate success that much more virtuous.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 14:03 |
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I got Luck and Speed topping out my playthrough. The MC basically became an item vending machine for the demigods I was lugging around.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 14:17 |
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Pureauthor posted:I got Luck and Speed topping out my playthrough. The MC basically became an item vending machine for the demigods I was lugging around. I'm pretty sure using items automatically makes you first in turn order.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 14:33 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 12:42 |
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Magic is basically the second-best Demonica set-up, because the Vitality, Agility, and Luck Demonicas are terrible. Magic at least has magical durability and good MP, so it can make up for its relatively lower physical damage by hitting weaknesses more often. The fact you use attack items really well is a bonus, I guess? Strength is the best, but you can end up kind of squishy that way.
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| # ? Aug 8, 2011 14:36 |
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