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Wildtortilla posted:I'm 1.75 hours into this with a figheter who uses maces and a rogue who uses bows.. from all this talk I feel like I made two huge mistakes. Bows are fine it's just super annoying that you don't autopickup spent ammo when you're using enchanted stuff.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 05:33 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 23:24 |
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Maces aren't terrible, really! I just got two mace options roughly the same time, one very very accurate but roughly equal in power to my best dagger, and the other is like an atom bomb with no targeting. The biggest problem I have with maces is that they're slow as poo poo, which has seemingly led to a rather large xp gap between my fighter and my other characters.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 05:50 |
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Maces work just fine, you'll find some /great/ maces later on, don't you worry. I presume the -20 Accuracy one is the Ogre's Mallet. It's... OK, but you'll find more accurate stuff later that will deal about just as much damage. Or less, but make up for it by being more accurate.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 05:53 |
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Yeah, that's the one. I switched back to my Warhammer because it's about half the weight for sooo much more accuracy. I'll stick with maces, then! Didn't want to start pumping points into Swords and make my fighter really anemic. 
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 05:57 |
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Yeah, the real way to go that I've witnessed is to focus on one weapon, and not ten of them per characters. It didn't seemed to me that enemies had particular resistances or weaknesses to certain types of weapons, so feel free to specialise in one type. For example, my Human Fighter used Swords exclusively, my Minotaur used Axes and my Rogue used Daggers. My fighters had Athletics and Armour(Enough for Heavy Armour Proficiency for my Human, enough for Light for my Minotaur). My Rogue had enough for Reach attacks with daggers. It worked pretty admirably. It's also pretty smart, I've found, to rush for the first attack skill in a weapon's tree. They REALLY increase your damage potential. It's also worth noting that the stats increases you get in the weapon trees applies to you even if you're not using the weapon -- that's only for the weapon skills like Parry or Chop. My Mage used Fire Magic all over the place and I regret nothing about it. Fireballs, hell yeah. When he wasn't fireballing things, he poked them with a Spear.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:01 |
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Cosmic Afro posted:I'll admit that my Rogue that was specced into Assassination and Daggers was rather holding it's own rather handily with the rest of the fighters, all comfortable in the back. I'll also agree that ranged weapons are really, really kind of rare to justify speccing into them. Going to agree with this, with one of the rare daggers and only focusing in assassination and daggers my rogue could easily out damage my sword and board guy and mace minotaur (when he ran out of energy). The fast speed and the fact that you can bypass protection along with triggering 3X damage back stabs makes them a beast. Also you do find some awesome maces later. One in particular Is called Icefall Hammer and requires a 14 skill in Mace, it has a 35 attack power and it can freeze guys. It is awesome.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:03 |
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What about unarmed fighters/rogues? I was trying an unarmed evasion tank just to see how it works (seems ok, but I just hit level 4) but someone said that unarmed blows at later levels, this true?
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:07 |
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If it blows later on, it's not showing any sign of it on floor 6. The unarmed/evasion combo is something I'm doing myself and that character's only rarely ever hit, and hits almost as hard as my mace guy with identical accuracy and far greater speed.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:09 |
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I found a flail on one level, too. Given I'm not running a mace fighter, but it counted as a mace weapon. I'd say try to find more secrets, but that's me.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:12 |
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I'm really enjoying the game. The puzzles are great, combat is pretty good and I absolutely love the lighting/atmosphere. Having no random elements really, really bothers me though and when I finish it I can't see myself ever replaying it. In my eyes there is no fun in it once I know how to beat the puzzles/secrets, especially since the game dictates exactly what loot I get and when.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:27 |
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Rookersh posted:Don't know if you still read this thread j-peeba, but constructive feedback stuff for you! Throwing weapons are great and are everywhere. Double throwing, rapid fire, with mega crits. And you get all your ammo back all the time. Plus there's a ton of bombs for harder situations. Everything else was pretty spot on though.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:45 |
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Xik posted:I'm really enjoying the game. The puzzles are great, combat is pretty good and I absolutely love the lighting/atmosphere. Having no random elements really, really bothers me though and when I finish it I can't see myself ever replaying it. In my eyes there is no fun in it once I know how to beat the puzzles/secrets, especially since the game dictates exactly what loot I get and when. It's the weakness of going the hand-crafted design for everything vs. the more technically challenging Diablo-esque random elements.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 06:46 |
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Getting surrounded by skeleton spearmen is bad news, but my motley crew is very lucky and beat some bony faces. I thought I hated this game at first, but I figured out how the flanking dance of death works and now it is rediculous fun!
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 07:26 |
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Bows are awesome. I played on hard and specced my rogue completely wrong (wasting maybe 15 skill points in assassination for no good reason), and the doubleshot from the bow or xbox tore enemies to shreds. At the end I had 22 arrows and enemies would die before they even got to me. My fighters with their magic swords and shiney armor just kinda stood there like big dumb minotaur idiots. Eventually I started enchanting all the arrows with my mage who had a tonne of mana from watching the archer make pincushions all over the place.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 07:29 |
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It's been a few days, I've made it down to level 10 with my second party, and I really do enjoy this game. It ain't perfect, but it sure is enjoyable. There have been a half-dozen instances where I'll get stuck and have to look online for a hint (only to find that I was trying to do the right thing and failing) and a few puzzles that were more frustrating than fun (the DDR dance against the three spitting statues was the worst one for me, followed by everybody's nemesis - the pitfall-button-mash room where you get Nex.) Magic is unwieldy and given the rapid-fire speed my mid-level mage is able to cast spells at, trying to maintain more than one in a party would be impossible. I do like that at this level, my characters all hit so rapidly and consistently that I can stunlock a lot of creatures. I just fought my first two lichs, and they only managed to take me to half health. I went with an Unarmed Light-Armored Lizard and Sword-Wielding Heavy-Armored human up front. The sword user only attacks slightly slower than the unarmed guy with similar points in their respective skills, and does a bit more raw damage - but the unarmed seems to crit more often, unless I'm imaging that. The rear of the party is a minotaur bowmaster and a lightning-bug mage. The minotaur really does rule the group as far as damage goes, consistently hitting for twice (or more) the damage of either of the fighters per round, and firing nearly as quickly as they attack. Volley + the crossbow is a lethal combo. The mage is less impressive, but exceedingly useful. I'd be tempted to omit a mage from future parties in lieu of another rogue, except that Fireball is incredibly useful outside of combat. Also, the Orb of Radiance is a must-have. I'm currently dual-orbing it and it feels good. A wishlist for the editor? The capability to: expand class and species choices; randomize dungeon generation with fewer puzzles and more hack n' slash; expand available loot; greatly increase the variety of enemies; add spells and skills; and offer more environments. Give me those things and this game could compete with Dungeon Crawl as my go-to time waster between other games.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 07:33 |
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Beat it last night after staying up enormously too late several nights in a row. Such a great game. Found all the treasures and opened all the iron doors! I forget the floor it was on, 8 or 9 maybe, but I love the bit where there's a wooden door in an area with four floor panels that you think will clearly make it open, and then you weight them all down and wait patiently at the door but all the freaking walls raise and you get ambushed. Really like all the bits that toy with expectations like that. I just loved all the puzzles in general. I have been breathlessly evangelizing this to all my friends.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 07:40 |
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Since everyone else seems to be sperging about their characters, I'll give a quick rundown of my party as well. Human swordswoman. Traits are Skilled and Aggressive, skillpoints mostly in Swords and Armors, obviously favouring protection over evasion. Also enough Athletics to get the smaller food consumption rate. She's very well armoured with full steel and chitin by now, and hits really hard with her kickass sword. Not surprisingly she was the only one who survived the Fighter's Challenge.  Lizard axeman. Tough and Evasive. Skill focus on Athletics, then Axes, with enough Armors to get light armors on. More evasion-oriented, which I'm afraid is getting somewhat less effective. Although I do wonder if he'd be even more hosed if he was also protection-oriented, because there's just barely been enough good heavy armor for one character. Regardless, he's still kicking rear end just fine, since I've found enough good axes to keep him truckin'. Human rogue. Skilled and Agile. I didn't really study the exact effects of stats when I started, so I just piled dex on him because it's usually the rogue thing to do. I also started out not really knowing what to make of him and unsure what would be the most useful, so his skillpoints are a bit spread out, except that I did make a beeline for the back row melee perk in Assassination. He's been alternating between the crossbow and a dagger/shurikens combo, though since I found the Assassin's Dagger, it's mostly been the latter and I've been pumping more points in the dagger skill as well. He does pretty respectable damage, certainly a lot more than some scrub with a spear would. Insectoid mage. Aura and Skilled. Mostly Air and Fire magic, though he also has enough points in the other schools to have all elements covered, damage-wise. More in Earth than Ice, and since I found an Earth-magic boosting staff, poison bolt has been pretty drat effective actually. Which reminds me, have people actually done any testing on which enemies other than skeletons are poison reistant? Because the poison bolt has worked just fine on pretty much anything I've lobbed it at so far; spiders, ogres, fireball assholes, crabs. And it seems to be more mana-efficient than fireball, plus easier to cast anyway. As a sidenote, someone mentioned the character portraits looking like somthing from Master of Orion 2, which I found pretty funny because my bug mage's name is Klackon.  So to summarize, I created my party without giving much thought to optimization, just based on gut feelings, and it's been working fine so far. The next time I play the game I'll probably streamline the skill choices somewhat, and try out some new "builds" for variation, but overall I don't feel like there's anything to "fix" with my current setup.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 08:46 |
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I've found mages pretty lackluster overall, freezing enemies with ice bolt is nice but they're so drat squishy and once everyone is rocking various 'attack faster' specials you definitely lose some attacks from inputting spells while kiting. I think I might try a 2 taur (meatshield / missile rogue) / 2 lizard (EV tank / backrow dagger rogue) no mage group next.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:00 |
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Okay how the hell do you get out of level 3 in a way that isn't Slimetown, because Slimetown is looking like a dead end?
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:21 |
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Shanty posted:Okay how the hell do you get out of level 3 in a way that isn't Slimetown, because Slimetown is looking like a dead end? The stairs down are in the room with the save crystal (on the other side of that pit).
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:29 |
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Tamba posted:The stairs down are in the room with the save crystal (on the other side of that pit). Yes, that's... Not very helpful?
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:39 |
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Has anyone figured out where infinite food is in the caverns (level 10)?
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:43 |
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Shanty posted:Yes, that's... Not very helpful? Solve puzzles;reach that area? If you're wanting a full walkthrough you should specify.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:45 |
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I'm stuck on level 5. I got past the room of pits and grabbed the ornate key at the end of the branch. Killed all the monsters that come out of the walls but the way I got in is shut off and despite searching all over for a hidden switch I can't find any way out. What am I missing? e: nevermind I figured it out Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2012 around 10:01 |
| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:50 |
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Dragonrah posted:Solve puzzles;reach that area? Well I mean I kind of feel like I'm out of puzzles? That area is the only area I haven't gotten to on this dungeon level, it seems like. I am asking for hints regarding this particular puzzle, is what I'm saying. I've found the Spectral Relay and it's not doing a whole lot for me, but I'm assuming that's what I want to be messing around with? Here are the options that I have available to me that seem like they might be a part of the puzzle that get me to the stairs leading down from Level 3: 1. The pressure plate by the spectral relay which makes a head shoot a blue bolt I am sure there are other things that I can do, but I have not noticed them on my six or so treks back and forth between that and the crystal room. So what I'm asking for is hints along the lines of "Have you looked in the north east corner of the dungeon?" "Have you considered what the button by the spider eggs does?" "Have you tried placing something in the cog by the relay?" I mean just basic pointers.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 09:56 |
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Yes, you need to mess around with the spectral relay to continue. Solution: Let the blue bolt hit whatever is opposite to open the door
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:06 |
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What's this about slimes? Apparently I've completely missed an entire floor.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:10 |
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Tamba posted:Yes, you need to mess around with the spectral relay to continue. Thanks! But okay so what if something is blocking the blue bolt? Like a portcullis. I guess what I'm asking is where do I go to open the portcullis that is blocking the blue bolt's path. It's like Invisiclues up in here.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:16 |
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Shanty posted:Thanks! But okay so what if something is blocking the blue bolt? Like a portcullis. I guess what I'm asking is where do I go to open the portcullis that is blocking the blue bolt's path. If there's a pressure plate on the other side of that gate. Drop something in there. I can't quite remember, sorry.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:17 |
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Dragonrah posted:If there's a pressure plate on the other side of that gate. Drop something in there. I can't quite remember, sorry. Nice, it always fails to occur to me that you can do that, for some reason. You're a real prince, thanks!
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:19 |
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That level 7 or 8 checkerboard puzzle was an effing breeze. So surprised when I got an achievement for it!
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:26 |
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Ahahaha, well I got to level 4 and my dumb rear end got cornered by the fly agaricmen and three party members died, so now my minotaur is battling through this nightmare skeleton dungeon, solving puzzles by brute force and finding scrolls he probably can't even read.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 10:48 |
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Shanty posted:Ahahaha, well I got to level 4 and my dumb rear end got cornered by the fly agaricmen and three party members died, so now my minotaur is battling through this nightmare skeleton dungeon, solving puzzles by brute force and finding scrolls he probably can't even read. Well you can always go back up the stairs and rez at the crystal. Unless you think thats cheating or something.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 11:03 |
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Kuntz posted:Well you can always go back up the stairs and rez at the crystal. His Minotaur considers your lack of faith an insult.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 11:19 |
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Kuntz posted:Well you can always go back up the stairs and rez at the crystal. Im reasonably sure if you go down the main stairs on level 3 you cannot get back up there after the mushroom men spawn and attack you the portcullis behind you drops I may be forgetting something but I would just reload the save before they died... That may be to easy a solution for some people though
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 11:40 |
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Kuntz posted:Well you can always go back up the stairs and rez at the crystal. Haha, naw, I basically just considered it a complete wipe and tried to see how far I could get on my one raging minotaur. Turns out two scrolls and then I basically got bored dancing around skeletons and went back and resurrected the rest of my party. Now I'm stuck on time and tide and I just want to smaaash something.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 11:48 |
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Shanty posted:Haha, naw, I basically just considered it a complete wipe and tried to see how far I could get on my one raging minotaur. I'm pretty sure Time and Tide is light spoiler:a timing puzzle Dragonrah fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2012 around 11:58 |
| # ? Apr 15, 2012 11:55 |
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Man, prancing around crabs never gets old.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 12:22 |
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etalian posted:It's the weakness of going the hand-crafted design for everything vs. the more technically challenging Diablo-esque random elements. The quality of the puzzles makes me think that true randomization would probably be almost impossible. Things like the size of each level, the layout, the enemies, and to some degree item placement could be randomized. Each puzzle has an inherent logic that seems like it would have to be considered by a person, unless it was just a carbon copy of something you've already solved.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 12:26 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 23:24 |
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Makepeace posted:Im reasonably sure if you go down the main stairs on level 3 you cannot get back up there after the mushroom men spawn and attack you the portcullis behind you drops I may be forgetting something but I would just reload the save before they died... That may be to easy a solution for some people though Nah, you can go back up after you unlock the door.
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| # ? Apr 15, 2012 12:41 |
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