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Welcome to the Official SomethingAwful Fighting Game Thread IV: Arcade Edition™. Whether you've been throwing hadoukens since '91 or just picked up Street Fighter IV from a bargain bin yesterday, this is your stop for resources and discussions of all things fighting. This thread will (hopefully) be replete with information, so feel free to jump around to whatever interests you. Before I go any further, if you're new to the genre, you might be wondering exactly what distinguishes fighting games from similar game genres, and why it is that people continue to be so passionate about such an ostensibly basic game concept. Fighting games are distinguished from beat-'em-ups in that while beat-'em-ups are cooperative (or solo) efforts against waves of NPC enemies, fighting games are explicitly 1-on-1 competitions. Essentially, fighting games pit players directly against each other in a contest of skill, dexterity, and psychology. You can think of it as a high-speed chess match played with asymmetrical pieces. To win, you will need to thoroughly understand what your fighter is capable of, and figure out the most effective ways to apply that against the player you're facing. This simple dynamic is the genesis of countless emergent strategies, and a deeper understanding of fighting game fundamentals often allows for a deeper appreciation of fighting games in general. Fighting games, far more than any other genre in gaming, are driven by an extremely dedicated community of fans who take it upon themselves to ensure the longevity of their scene. The tournaments that form the backbone of the fighting game scene are, by and large, run by fans, for fans. This year's annual Evolution tournament (often known simply as "Evo") in Vegas was attended by top players from around the U.S., Japan, Korea, U.K., France, China, Mexico, and beyond; it received media coverage from G4, GameSpot, and Destructoid, drew over 2 million unique viewers via live streams of the matches, and played host to new announcements from Capcom and Namco's top producers. Evo was not created by Capcom or Namco to publicize their games; it's not run by GameStop or some "e-sports" league that intends to televise it for profit; it was organized by a small group of guys who simply love fighting games. This is a small, tightly-knit community that paradoxically spans the entire globe, and few people can really say that about their hobbies. For some people, playing fighting games amounts to cracking a beer, picking the coolest-looking character, and mashing buttons as fast as possible until someone ends up winning. There is a place for this, and if this is how you enjoy the game most, then more power to you! But if that's all you're interested in doing, you're probably not reading this thread, so I'm going to assume you're at least a little curious about how more advanced gameplay works. If so, read on. Very loosely put, most fighting games are about two things: controlling space (i.e., limiting your opponent's options via projectiles or hand-to-hand attacks), and pressing your advantage (i.e., taking full advantage of opportunities to deal damage, and maintaining situations that create those opportunities). The best way to get a sense for the basic concepts that drive modern fighting games is to go back to where it all started: Street Fighter II. The videos below, narrated by infamously fighting game guru David Sirlin, are specifically about the basics of Super Street Fighter II Turbo, but the fact is that they generalize extremely well to other 2D fighting games, and more abstractly to 3D fighting games as well. Beginner Tutorial Concepts covered: Controlling space (zoning), normal/special/super moves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4 Intermediate Tutorial Concepts covered: 2-in-1s, combos, cross-ups, pressing the advantage, meaties, reversals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCapuhsOMcg Those are some basic concepts. Additional terms you'll see tossed about in fighting game discussions are listed in the Advanced Terminology section. Let's face it: to the uninitiated, "frames" is a dirty word. It's a common misconception that people who are really into fighting games sit around all day memorizing frame data, and that this encyclopedic knowledge is somehow instantly accessible and applicable in a real match. They don't, and it's not. In truth, having a basic understanding of what people mean when they refer to various types of frames is simply useful in comprehending exactly what you're seeing in a game, and it goes a long way toward making the finer points of fighting games easier to grasp. Reading this summary will make it easier to digest some of the advanced terminology you'll see later, so before you get all huffy about not wanting to bother with that nerdy frame-counting bullshit, just relax for a minute and give it a shot. If you know anything about how video game sprites or animation work, you're probably well aware that any given move you're seeing on screen is comprised of multiple frames of animation. Exactly how many frames depends on how fast the move is, whether the game runs at 30 or 60 fps, and so on. For fighting games to function on a technical level, each move has to have some hard-coded properties for what each frame of the move represents: in the header above, if Ryu is just starting to perform a punch, should he mysteriously damage the other player if they're standing next to him? Of course not; the damage should occur when his fist is extended, and the punch (or rather, the hidden hitbox representing the punch) actually connects with the opponent on the screen. The frames of animation leading up to Ryu's fist actually hitting his opponent, then, can be thought of as "startup" frames; they're the frames that happen after you've pressed the punch button, but before Ryu is in a state wherein the opponent will actually be punched. The frames during which Ryu's fist is considered an active, damaging object are the "active" frames. And the frames after Ryu's punch is completed, during which he is recovering from his attempted attack, are "recovery" frames. Not so painful, is it? So, when you see numbers representing frame data, what you're really seeing are the following:
Attacks that leave you with frame advantage on block/hit (or at least, a small enough disadvantage that your opponent has no guaranteed way of damaging you) are generally considered "safe." Attacks that leave you at a severe disadvantage on block/hit are considered "unsafe." This means that you shouldn't be throwing out unsafe moves unless you're sure they'll hit in your current situation, else your opponent gets a free opportunity to punish you for the mistake. Because of the emphasized nature of blocking and punishment in 3D games, you'll often see frames discussed more heavily there than you might in Marvel or Street Fighter. In a game like Tekken, it is somewhat useful to know which of your character's moves will come out quickly enough to punish blocked moves from your opponent, and looking at punishment guides (which use frame data) is sort of a cheat sheet for seeing what those moves are. However, even in this case, learning which moves are useful for punishing mistakes is something you can absolutely learn intuitively by simply playing the game; memorizing numbers is never a necessity. Canceling - Canceling refers to connecting one move to another in a way that reduces the recovery frames of the first move, and usually allows you to combo moves together that otherwise would not be fast enough to connect to each other. It's most often used in the context of connecting a normal to a special move, or a special move to a super move, and is done by simply inputting the next move before the current move is done being performed. The most common notation for cancels when talking about 2D fighters is "xx," so if you see a Ryu combo that reads c.MK xx hadouken xx shinkuu hadouken, you would press down + medium kick (which is called "forward kick" in Street Fighter, just to confuse you) for the crouching MK, then cancel it into a fireball by performing the quarter-circle forward and punch while your kick is still going, then cancel that into his super fireball by doing the super fireball input while Ryu is doing the first fireball. If canceling didn't exist, Ryu would be standing there recovering from his first fireball for way too long to throw a super fireball and have it connect as part of the same combo. Canceling normals into each other is the basis for chain comboing, which is discussed below. "Chains" vs. "Links" - A chain combo is a string of moves wherein the beginning of one move in the string cancels the recovery frames of the previous move; i.e., the moves "chain" together smoothly and are done simply by pressing one button after the other, usually with fairly even timing. Conversely, links are sequences of moves wherein each move has to completely finish its recovery animation before you can do the next move in the string. This often means that more precise timing is required, because you're left with a pretty small window during which your opponent is still "reeling" from the previous hit (i.e., they're in hitstun) while you perform the next move in the sequence. Games with a stronger emphasis on chain combos include Darkstalkers and Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Street Fighter IV more strongly emphasizes links. Tekken has a mix of each, technically speaking. Damage/Hitstun Scaling - Because of the huge damage potential that combo systems create, many games institute a sort of proration system to put limits on what is possible through combos. Damage scaling refers to the gradual decrease in damage that your attacks do as your combo gets longer, so a hard attack done as the 5th hit of a combo does a lot less damage than it does when it's the 1st hit of the combo. Similarly, hitstun scaling is a gradual reduction in the amount of recovery time your opponent has after each hit. The latter is basically a failsafe to help prevent infinite combos from emerging, since eventually your opponent will recover so quickly from being hit that further comboing becomes impossible. There are mixed opinions about this mechanic in the fighting game community. You may also see these terms referred to as hitstun deterioration, proration, reduction, decay, etc. Option Selects - An option select is a situation in which one input (or set of inputs) can result in multiple outputs, depending on which output is best for the situation. Example: in Street Fighter IV, throws are broken by inputting light punch (LP) and light kick (LK) at the same time when your opponent attempts to throw you. By pressing down-back + LP + LK while on defense, you create an option select: down-back blocks low, so if your opponent is in the middle of an attack (standing or low), the game engine ignores your LP and LK inputs in favor of blocking the attack. If your opponent attempts to throw you, the LP + LK input will break the throw. If your opponent does nothing, the game engine prioritizes the crouching (down-back) and LK inputs, and your character will do a c.LK, which is usually a very quick/safe move. The term is a bit obtuse, but you can see in this situation that one set of inputs results in three different "options" to select from. Resets - A reset is when you intentionally drop a combo to create an opportunity to start a new combo. This is done to maximize damage output by connecting 2 (or more) combos rather than just one complete combo -- i.e., it's better to do 4 hits of a 5-hit combo, reset, and get another 5-hit combo than to just land 5 hits in the first place. This is especially true of games that have severe damage scaling on longer combos, like Marvel vs. Capcom, since you're "resetting" the damage and hitstun scaling. The risk, of course, is that any time you drop a combo, you give your opponent an opportunity to block or escape further damage, so the most effective resets are those that are done unexpectedly, or in ways that are very confusing/difficult to escape. Throw Breaks, Techs, and Softening - "Teching" a throw refers to inputting a command in anticipation of your opponent's attempt to throw you (or as part of an option select) that results in you reducing the damage taken from the throw. In some games, you can break out of a throw completely and avoid any damage from it altogether. Other games only allow you to "soften" the damage from a throw, rather than breaking it entirely. This is typically done the same way a break would be done in other games; it simply varies based on what the commands for throws are in a particular game. Throw softening also usually allows you to recover from the throw quickly, rather than suffering a full knockdown. Super Turbo and the Darkstalkers series both use throw softening rather than throw breaks. If you have questions about other terms you've seen, or something isn't explained well enough here, feel free to ask in the thread. Street Fighter V [Thread] Mortal Kombat X [Thread] Killer Instinct [Thread] Pokkén (sorta) [Thread] Guilty Gear Xrd [Thread] Tekken 7 Tekken x Street Fighter (lol j/k) Other Skullgirls [Thread] Ultra Street Fighter IV [Thread] Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 [Thread] Tekken Tag Tournament 2 [Thread] Injustice: Gods Among Us [Thread] Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate [Thread] Persona 4 Arena [Thread] Street Fighter x Tekken [Thread] King of Fighters XIII [Thread] News/Blog/Stream Sites iPlayWinner - Various fighting game news and a few guides, forums, and glossary. Also home to TeamSpooky, which is the east coast's premiere livestream source and arguably the most popular stream for fighting games. EventHubs - Mostly a good source for news; they sometimes get tidbits of information about upcoming games before anyone else. Level|Up - The west coast's biggest livestream source. Game-Specific Sites Shoryuken - The biggest resource online for Capcom fighters. Plenty of terrible human beings post here, but so do plenty of top players, and there is a lot of useful information to be found. Tekken Zaibatsu - The biggest Tekken community site online. Again, lots of awful people, but also many excellent players. If you're getting into Tekken or want to learn more about a character, start here. Dustloop - Great resource for Guilty Gear and BlazBlue guides, for beginners to experts. Click on "Frame Data" at the top to access the guides -- it's a misleading link title. 8WayRun - Community site for Soul Calibur, if you still play that for some reason. VFDC - The aptly-titled Virtua Fighter site. Mizuumi - Wikis and information for basically all the poverty-rear end fighting games (Arcana Heart, Melty Blood, other anime fighters). Stick Stuff Shoryuken: Tech Talk - This is the section of SRK's forums dedicated specifically to joysticks and controllers. There are lots of useful threads here, including guides on modding your stick, various places to purchase replacement parts, and suggestions on what sticks to get. Focus Attack - Stick part supplier. Lots of options, competitive prices, and fast shipping. Probably the best place to start when you're looking for the basics (buttons, stick components, etc.). Paradise Arcade Shop - A married couple based in Hawaii, these two have very quickly become a popular source for stick hardware. The husband has come up with some innovative solutions to common issues with custom sticks, and they even do cute stuff like including chocolate-covered macadamia nuts with every order for all you fat hambeast goons out there. Art's Hobbies - Art is a member of the Shoryuken community who has built a small business for himself doing custom stick art prints and acrylic orders for people who want to modify their sticks. He is a really nice guy and he does fantastic work, so if you want to do something cool to make your joystick your own, you should check out what he can do. Amazon - Yep, you can even get stick parts here these days. IRC #goonsgarden on SynIRC - The place to go if you're looking for a match with goons who are as bad at fighting games as you are. This is the primary hangout for SomethingAwful's fighting game illuminati. Short answer: This one. Long answer: Shoryuken Purchasing Guide As for this thread, try to adhere to the following friendly guidelines:
Have fun! Brosnan fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Apr 7, 2016 |
# ? Aug 25, 2011 06:58 |
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# ? Apr 24, 2024 06:22 |
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~Reserved~
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 06:59 |
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This is like the best OP I have ever seen. Brosnan is like a role model to me, now.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:03 |
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For 'Coming Soon' you might wanna add Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:03 |
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Brosnan that OP is terrific.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:04 |
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Where's Arcana Heart 3???? Where's Chaos Code????
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:05 |
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dj_de posted:Where's Arcana Heart 3????
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:06 |
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dj_de posted:Where's Arcana Heart 3???? I was kind of hoping you'd call this thread the Fighting Game Thread 4rd Fiesta but I guess this works too.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:10 |
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Cat Machine posted:Mortal Kombat too!! Was gonna post this. Awesome OP, Brosnan!
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:10 |
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It is a great OP but discussion about Kayo Police should probably be in the get the gently caress out section.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:12 |
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Soul Calibur 5. Also thanks for making a new thread since I'm too busy to ever update the old one.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:12 |
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Lessail posted:It is a great OP but discussion about Kayo Police should probably be in the get the gently caress out section. What? I would say discussion related to the Best Commentating Ever would definitely belong here!
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:16 |
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Holy poo poo, this is one of the best OPs I've ever seen for a thread. Hey, quick rundown, JMcrofts just left the SkullGirls team, is anybody else here still working on it? I'm just curious.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:35 |
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Mad about ggpo because i don't have $300 to play Third Strike <> anyway naisu oppu bros-kun
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:44 |
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Seems a good a time as any to get back into fighting games. I've been playing BB:CS recently and now I've got 3rd strike, which I had never played before. I haven't gotten a rating better than a B yet, but I'm really enjoying it... seems like there are a lot of new players who I can figure the game out with though, so its all good.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:48 |
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Why do people assume if you don't like the new popular games you don't like anything since SF2?
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 07:51 |
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Broken Loose posted:Holy poo poo, this is one of the best OPs I've ever seen for a thread. Oh dang. What happened? Also the OP is amazinig gg
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 08:12 |
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OP owns.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 09:04 |
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OP is "sick", "dope" and "hype". Awesome job! Xlyfindel posted:Seems a good a time as any to get back into fighting games.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 09:26 |
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washow posted:Oh dang. What happened? He's just going back to school or something so he's not in the area anymore??? But he's still playtesting builds IIRC good job Brosnan
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 09:33 |
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Okay, good, JM was super cool to me at Evo while I hung around Skullgirls all the drat time and didn't want to think he was fired for murdering a supervisor or something scandalous. Skullgirls kinda owns and I really want that game to come out in a timely fashion.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 09:59 |
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S-U-P-E-R posted:didn't want to think he was fired for murdering a supervisor or something scandalous
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 10:27 |
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Reading this OP takes less effort than smacking a baby! You should link that stick image to amazon or somewhere so we can find it easy AXE COP fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Aug 25, 2011 |
# ? Aug 25, 2011 10:38 |
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That's one nice OP.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 10:41 |
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dj_de posted:Pretty sure he was just like a summer intern or something ^^ this. I'm still getting new builds and I'm still gonna demo the game at a few events in the future (season's beatings maybe?). quote:Okay, good, JM was super cool to me at Evo while I hung around Skullgirls all the drat time and didn't want to think he was fired for murdering a supervisor or something scandalous. Skullgirls kinda owns and I really want that game to come out in a timely fashion. Thanks! Luckily I removed all DNA evidence from the scene before the cops got there.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 12:57 |
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I think its finally time to get rid of my crappy HORI EX2. Does anyone have anything bad to say about the Q4?
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 13:51 |
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Jmcrofts posted:(season's beatings maybe?). Cool do that it's the only one I can make this year.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 14:28 |
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Gamest Mook posted:Why do people assume if you don't like the new popular games you don't like anything since SF2? Because video games in general have a culture (probably helped along by marketing) where anything more than two or three years old is so ancient that people are bewildered by the idea of playing it. See also the reaction to sprite-based games in the 3D era, even when the sprites look much better aesthetically.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 15:06 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Because video games in general have a culture (probably helped along by marketing) where anything more than two or three years old is so ancient that people are bewildered by the idea of playing it. See also the reaction to sprite-based games in the 3D era, even when the sprites look much better aesthetically.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 15:44 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Because video games in general have a culture (probably helped along by marketing) where anything more than two or three years old is so ancient that people are bewildered by the idea of playing it. Until Capcom starts charging a monthly subscription fee like WoW, yeah, they want you to keep buying games
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 15:45 |
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You should list https://www.testyourmight.com for MK9. It's got character specific forums and guides, and is an invaluable resource. VVV poo poo it's down? I never had problems before VVV Prince Reggie K fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Aug 25, 2011 |
# ? Aug 25, 2011 15:47 |
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Prince Reggie K posted:You should list testyourmight for MK9. It's got character specific forums and guides, and is an invaluable resource. *when their server is up
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 15:48 |
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This is my first time actually paying attention to the FGC (despite playing them my whole life) and now I'm looking for people to play SSFAE:PC with! I want to eventually go to tourneys and stuff like that, but I'm still kinda scrubby. Add me for quick points! GFWL: Jerkllandong1st
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:14 |
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That OP rules. Now you must answer my question. Where the gently caress can I get a matte top panel for my TE. After over two years I finally want to break the gloss top in half for its constant collection of sweat and grime and humidity.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:23 |
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MLIOOBE posted:That OP rules. Make one. Krylon paint and a drywall sanding pad. Take you a couple days but it'll do.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:29 |
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Is there any likelihood of HDR coming to the PC, or am I stuck with GGPO Super Turbo until the end of time? I'm a little surprised Capcom isn't doing much to keep their most beloved game alive.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:35 |
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Brannock posted:Is there any likelihood of HDR coming to the PC Nope!
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:42 |
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Brannock posted:Is there any likelihood of HDR coming to the PC, or am I stuck with GGPO Super Turbo until the end of time? I'm a little surprised Capcom isn't doing much to keep their most beloved game alive.
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:42 |
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Question Mark Mound posted:I'm sure I broke a blood vessel once when I overheard some people say that BlazBlue looks like a SNES game. Well, Gundam Wing: Endless Duel was hella pretty..
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:51 |
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# ? Apr 24, 2024 06:22 |
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I think the OP needs at little description of what "canceling" means. It felt like for a little while the MK thread was nothing but "What does xx mean" and "ok so how do I do it."
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# ? Aug 25, 2011 16:51 |