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Trykt
Jul 30, 2000

Still training..
I'm not really mad lain today just seemed like a good day to tell you to keep your lovely opinion to yourself!

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The Balance Niggy
May 11, 2001

tane wave

Trykt posted:

I'm not really mad lain today just seemed like a good day to tell you to keep your lovely opinion to yourself!

My opinion... is the best one. :smug:

But honestly... no really...


What do people think of ratio matches? I am not singling this out to TTT2's flaming debate about it, or the 2d genre that has a few of these. To me, it seems incredibly hard to balance and doesn't work well that often. It certainly looks like it won't work well in TTT2.

Electric Crayon
Jul 20, 2004

Oh, it's you!
If you wear a David Ortiz shirt I will judge the gently caress out of you because it's really loving lame to wear a t-shirt based on some fighting game player guy. Same thing if you wore a shirt with Fatal1ty or whoever-it-is that's good at Starcraft.

Here's what I know about Ortiz:
1) He's good at fighting games and beat my booty with Vega in ST like 9 years ago.
2) I think he might be gay (not sure, please confirm).

I'm not sure being good at fighting games is a good enough metric for me to worship you by wearing your own branded apparel. Maybe it is for some people. Some people like to pierce their balls. I do not.

Six Of Spades
Oct 24, 2010

"...That too is according to my calculations."
I guess people supporting Ortiz could take a page from his book and dress up for the events. I for one would love to see a the cattiness of fashion communities meet the cattiness of fighting game communities. Or just fewer people wearing sweatpants.

Electric Crayon
Jul 20, 2004

Oh, it's you!

Dane Cook Torrent posted:

What do people think of ratio matches? I am not singling this out to TTT2's flaming debate about it, or the 2d genre that has a few of these. To me, it seems incredibly hard to balance and doesn't work well that often. It certainly looks like it won't work well in TTT2.

Ratio matches seem to be hard to balance and always amplify the difference in tiers. I do not think they are good ideas. Just look at CvS2, the balancing on that game was bonkers. Roll canceling alleviated it somewhat, but still, Sagat/Cammy/Blanka reigned supreme. It kind of stifled the game.

Except for a Ratio 4 K-Groove Zangief, because that poo poo was fun. Your opponent makes so much effort to hurt you with their ratio 1 cammy or blanka or whatever and then you enrage and Atomic SPD them for 80% damage. So fresh.

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


Electric Crayon posted:

If you wear a David Ortiz shirt I will judge the gently caress out of you because it's really loving lame to wear a t-shirt based on some fighting game player guy. Same thing if you wore a shirt with Fatal1ty or whoever-it-is that's good at Starcraft.

David Ortiz is a baseball player.

The Balance Niggy
May 11, 2001

tane wave

Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

David Ortiz is a baseball player.

It's an intentional mistake I think, so that people can draw comparisons?

The Balance Niggy
May 11, 2001

tane wave

Electric Crayon posted:

Ratio matches seem to be hard to balance and always amplify the difference in tiers. I do not think they are good ideas. Just look at CvS2, the balancing on that game was bonkers. Roll canceling alleviated it somewhat, but still, Sagat/Cammy/Blanka reigned supreme. It kind of stifled the game.

Except for a Ratio 4 K-Groove Zangief, because that poo poo was fun. Your opponent makes so much effort to hurt you with their ratio 1 cammy or blanka or whatever and then you enrage and Atomic SPD them for 80% damage. So fresh.

This sounds like it has not gone well indeed. Does anyone else see it the same way?

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -
jesus christ lain wave are you trying to break a posting record or something

The Balance Niggy
May 11, 2001

tane wave

Broken Loose posted:

jesus christ lain wave are you trying to break a posting record or something

No, I'm trying to break your bank account! *buys a stick of gum* Eat it!!

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Electric Crayon posted:

Ratio matches seem to be hard to balance and always amplify the difference in tiers. I do not think they are good ideas. Just look at CvS2, the balancing on that game was bonkers. Roll canceling alleviated it somewhat, but still, Sagat/Cammy/Blanka reigned supreme. It kind of stifled the game.

Except for a Ratio 4 K-Groove Zangief, because that poo poo was fun. Your opponent makes so much effort to hurt you with their ratio 1 cammy or blanka or whatever and then you enrage and Atomic SPD them for 80% damage. So fresh.

Has the game changed so much? I thought eventually it balanced out to A groove Dictator and Blanka being tippity top tier, with another strong A-groover like Sakura filling in the odd spot for your team.

Either way, though, nobody ever picked the ratio 2/2 or 3/1 two character or ratio 4 single character setup. It just wasn't worth it given the massive amount of damage something like a good custom combo or raged K-groove super would do even from a ratio 1 to a ratio 4, and the negligible amounts of health that winning a round granted. Not to say that it wasn't a good game, but ratio juggling was definitely not a part of competitive play, other than "where should I put my ratio 2 character?"

Sort of like how eventually half the grooves in the game became nonviable for competitive play as well.

AnonSpore fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Apr 27, 2012

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007

When I posted the Ortiz EG shirt I had no idea it would result in an entire page of fussing about how lame it would be for anyone to buy it and wear it, like anyone who would actually buy or wear any kind of FGC branded shirt would give a poo poo about what another bunch of FG players think about them and their fashion sense.

Cus you know that's what's important in these fighting game scenes: your threads steez.

Electric Crayon
Jul 20, 2004

Oh, it's you!

Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

David Ortiz is a baseball player.

I don't give a poo poo if he plays baseball too!

Electric Crayon
Jul 20, 2004

Oh, it's you!

AnonSpore posted:

Has the game changed so much? I thought eventually it balanced out to A groove Dictator and Blanka being tippity top tier, with another strong A-groover like Sakura filling in the odd spot for your team.

Either way, though, nobody ever picked the ratio 2/2 or 3/1 two character or ratio 4 single character setup. It just wasn't worth it given the massive amount of damage something like a good custom combo or raged K-groove super would do even from a ratio 1 to a ratio 4, and the negligible amounts of health that winning a round granted. Not to say that it wasn't a good game, but ratio juggling was definitely not a part of competitive play, other than "where should I put my ratio 2 character?"

Sort of like how eventually half the grooves in the game became nonviable for competitive play as well.

Yeah, exactly! Ratios didn't matter because everyone would just do the 2-1-1 setup. Anything else was suboptimal.

I kind of stopped following the game after 2004 because I could finally get people to sit down and play SF3.

Nerokerubina
Jun 7, 2007

I think swords are neat. Do you think swords are neat?!
I remember one dude at Socal Regionals was wearing a John Cena shirt can we agree to mock him before we mock fg shirt people.

null_user01013
Nov 13, 2000

Drink up comrades

Broken Loose posted:

jesus christ lain wave are you trying to break a posting record or something

The shitposting fighting game crown is a tough one to win, but look at him go!

PunkBoy
Aug 22, 2008

You wanna get through this?

Nerokerubina posted:

I remember one dude at Socal Regionals was wearing a John Cena shirt can we agree to mock him before we mock fg shirt people.

Hey at least Cena had that awesome fake screenshot of Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

Bleep
Feb 7, 2004

AxeManiac posted:

The shitposting fighting game crown is a tough one to win, but look at him go!

Lain Wave is one of the most knowledgeable and experienced posters in this thread but hey he takes contrary stances to provoke discussion so I guess he's a bad poster?

El Estrago Bonito
Dec 17, 2010

Scout Finch Bitch
Shockingly (since that place is such a cesspit) Shoryuken actually got a company with a decent graphic designer to make their shirts. In fact Kineda probably makes some of the only nerdy shirts I like.

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
does anyone know what arcade hosts the topanga cup?
I have business in Japan coming up and I want to get destroyed by top japanese players all day.

Uncle Kitchener
Nov 18, 2009

BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
Yo, Brosnan, when are you gonna start up that Tag2 thread?

scrooger
Feb 26, 2006

Nerokerubina posted:

I remember one dude at Socal Regionals was wearing a John Cena shirt can we agree to mock him before we mock fg shirt people.

No one can beat the guy at some major who's name was 'as i lay dying' and he came on stream wearing a norma jean shirt.

moron izzard
Nov 17, 2006

Grimey Drawer
I think a lot of them would be cooler without the dumb words on them.

FossilFuelUser
May 8, 2004
Global Warming

scrooger posted:

No one can beat the guy at some major who's name was 'as i lay dying' and he came on stream wearing a norma jean shirt.

300 pound guy wearing an ICP shirt playing MTG.

moron izzard
Nov 17, 2006

Grimey Drawer
<cabbagepots_giantess_shirt.jpg>

Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled :twisted:
Lipstick Apathy

scrooger posted:

No one can beat the guy at some major who's name was 'as i lay dying' and he came on stream wearing a norma jean shirt.

I think John Cena and ICP are on a different level of embarrassing than Norma Jean.

uncleKitchener posted:

Yo, Brosnan, when are you gonna start up that Tag2 thread?

Er, sorry, I'll get on that soon. Was wrestling with how complete it needs to be, since neogaf already has a sort of disgustingly thorough Tekken thread for people who are specifically interested in its mechanics.

Bleep
Feb 7, 2004

Brosnan posted:

Er, sorry, I'll get on that soon. Was wrestling with how complete it needs to be, since neogaf already has a sort of disgustingly thorough Tekken thread for people who are specifically interested in its mechanics.

Which devolves into discussions about character art and how cool Lili/Asuka are and what if they were my girlfirned and I could spend time with my favourite Tekken girls have you guys seen my Alisa statue I think she is really cute.

Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled :twisted:
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah I don't actually read neogaf because I figure that's what happens. I actually think their Tekken thread has a ton of unnecessary information that's just going to overwhelm people who are just starting out (like why the gently caress would someone need to know the name of every different crumple stun or knockdown position or whatever?), but I also don't really want to totally reinvent the wheel because it would take a year to write the drat thing.

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008

On the moon... they don't make Neo Kobe Pizza.

You could always do multiple posts, so you could have the OP be like all the basics, features, simple mechanics and be like "Okay now if you're ready go read the next post" where it's all more complex features. So people who just want to find out when they can buy it and the stuff that's in it can read that, and those who want to get more into it can read further.

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

One Nation, Under God.
No-one reads any of that stuff beyond the first week, if then, and all the simple obvious questions that you address in the OP will get asked again and again no matter how easy it is to find the answers.

Now that you mention it, I was waiting on a release date for VF5FS before I made a thread, but I just realised they probably aren't gonna have a date until a few days before release, Maybe I should knock one out in the next day or two.

Uncle Kitchener
Nov 18, 2009

BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
You can always reserve an extra post to put all the extras there, Brosnan.

bleep posted:

Which devolves into discussions about character art and how cool Lili/Asuka are and what if they were my girlfirned and I could spend time with my favourite Tekken girls have you guys seen my Alisa statue I think she is really cute.

I take it you've never been on a DOA forum.

The Balance Niggy
May 11, 2001

tane wave

Brosnan posted:

Yeah I don't actually read neogaf because I figure that's what happens. I actually think their Tekken thread has a ton of unnecessary information that's just going to overwhelm people who are just starting out (like why the gently caress would someone need to know the name of every different crumple stun or knockdown position or whatever?), but I also don't really want to totally reinvent the wheel because it would take a year to write the drat thing.

Well, there are two types right? Inescapable and escapable... might help them to learn the ones they can escape with F or whatever. I know we learned through just looking at them but everyone wants to jump in head first with all mechanics now.

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

One Nation, Under God.
VF5:FS just got announced for Evo, $15k pot. Cool.

The Rokstar
Aug 19, 2002

by FactsAreUseless

PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

VF5:FS just got announced for Evo, $15k pot. Cool.
That's pretty crazy considering it's not even an official game. I'm assuming it won't get any coverage on the main stream but I wonder how much of it will get streamed by side streams.

Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled :twisted:
Lipstick Apathy

Dane Cook Torrent posted:

Well, there are two types right? Inescapable and escapable... might help them to learn the ones they can escape with F or whatever. I know we learned through just looking at them but everyone wants to jump in head first with all mechanics now.

I think that's a useful thing to know, but for example, they list, describe, and give examples of all of the following types of juggle starters (most of which have names that whoever wrote the thread just made up anyway):

Orthodox Juggle Starter
Upward Thrust
Wild Flip
Projectile Propulsion
Half Barrel Roll
Skyward Eruption
Light Projectile Propulsion
Backflip
Flair Trip
Half Cartwheel
Multi Cartwheel
Split Trip
Regular Bounce
Bounce to Flip
Knockdown Recoil Juggles
Grapple Juggle Starters
"Character Specific"

Then, they go on to do the same for the following types of stuns:

Double Overstun
Stagger Hit
Flop Stun
Crumple Fall
Crumple Fall Stun
Crumple Stun
Block Stun
Guard Stun
Minor Stuns
Orientation Stun


This is completely extraneous bullshit to have in a thread about learning how to play a game. If someone who's interested in getting into Tekken sees all this crap and thinks they actually have to know it before they can get into the game, they're going to run screaming in the other direction, and I wouldn't blame them. I'd still rather forward people to TZ and the NeoGAF thread for the nitty-gritty of the mechanics, but with a pretty major warning to, uh, not read it too hard.

Bleep
Feb 7, 2004

Brosnan posted:

[Crazy list of Tekken character states]

I started playing Tekken about a year ago and I have never heard the names for most of these things. The animation systems are pretty clear and understandable so I would think learning through experience like I did would be better than learning a crazy list of crazy phrases. When you see a character launched in the air or flopping over it's clear what that means and you will quickly learn what you can do from the variants of these states.

Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled :twisted:
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah, nobody is going to know what the gently caress you're talking about if you ask whether d/f+2 does crumple stun or crumple fall or crumple fall stun. I don't know why they bothered indexing all this crap.

The Balance Niggy
May 11, 2001

tane wave

Brosnan posted:

I think that's a useful thing to know, but for example, they list, describe, and give examples of all of the following types of juggle starters (most of which have names that whoever wrote the thread just made up anyway):

Orthodox Juggle Starter
Upward Thrust
Wild Flip
Projectile Propulsion
Half Barrel Roll
Skyward Eruption
Light Projectile Propulsion
Backflip
Flair Trip
Half Cartwheel
Multi Cartwheel
Split Trip
Regular Bounce
Bounce to Flip
Knockdown Recoil Juggles
Grapple Juggle Starters
"Character Specific"

Then, they go on to do the same for the following types of stuns:

Double Overstun
Stagger Hit
Flop Stun
Crumple Fall
Crumple Fall Stun
Crumple Stun
Block Stun
Guard Stun
Minor Stuns
Orientation Stun


This is completely extraneous bullshit to have in a thread about learning how to play a game. If someone who's interested in getting into Tekken sees all this crap and thinks they actually have to know it before they can get into the game, they're going to run screaming in the other direction, and I wouldn't blame them. I'd still rather forward people to TZ and the NeoGAF thread for the nitty-gritty of the mechanics, but with a pretty major warning to, uh, not read it too hard.

I'm not sure what the gently caress the motivation behind this is but I'm really glad I didn't jump on the NEOGAF bandwagon... hooly poo poo. I'd just send people to TZ

Uncle Kitchener
Nov 18, 2009

BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
No Tekken player I've met uses most of those terms anyway with the exception of things like crumple stun and gut stun, so there is little point in remembering them.

Also, no one should go to the NeoGaf thread for any actual gameplay info. You're better off looking into the TZ character strategy threads.


VF5FS and TTT2 are high on my list of games to play this year. I've pretty much given up on DOA5 being a good game and Team Ninja and their publishers have hosed themselves over releasing on the same month as Tag2.

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SpaceBees
Jul 12, 2008

It cost me an arm and a leg to get into this club!
How many goony goons are going to EVO?

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