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Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Ashenai posted:

I like 3D graphics a lot more, when they're clean and competent. I like MvC3, SF4, and Tekken graphics more than almost all 2D fighters.

Congrats on hating good art.

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Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
It all depends on what you grew up with, I guess.

I can follow pretty much any 2D game instantly (although Skullgirls is mindfucking me because of the lack of borders on characters), but put me in front of any 3D fighter with garish hit sparks all over the place and I get lost.

One of the many reasons I don't enjoy SF4 at all is because I can't even tell just by looking where the hell moves are supposed to be hitting.
Somehow I had less of a problem with MvC3, but even still that game has tons of dumb hitboxes in general.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
I thought discussion of Smash was banned for being off-topic?

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
If CvS3 is made, get the loving Ultimate Match team to do it, not Dimps.

That's all I ask.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

PalmTreeFun posted:

After about 20 years, finally someone puts a proper tutorial in a fighting game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G12yIXwpFVA

:colbert:

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Doesn't matter what the name is, it would still be 10x better than anything that Dimps could make.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Shock Trooper posted:


Mars loses to every projectile charcter in FHD, but the Clown matchup is so retardedly bad. Wish I had a video of just how lame it is.

Close enough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDqTFPIwJic

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
This is definitely the kind of commentary that mixes the best of both worlds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itcT5uCxXY8&feature=relmfu

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

JesusLovesRonwell posted:

The problem though is that, in fact, Killian's argument is wrong. There are barriers to entry, so to speak, even if they're not the same, or as extreme. There is an economic barrier if the equipment you need is expensive.

You don't necessarily need a $150 Arcade stick, and the original article was written back in the late 90's when arcades were still around and it only cost $0.50 per play.

quote:

Another barrier is competition.

With internet play, that's even less of an excuse now than it was 10+ years ago.

quote:

The single most significant barrier to entry though, is time.

The amount of time it takes to get decent at newer fighting games like SF4 and MvC3 is no where near the amount of time it would take to get to reach the same level in chess or sports like basketball, which were the games Seth was actually using for comparison.

quote:

What if someone wants to play these games, but is mentally incapable of doing so?

That's why the Smash competitive scene still exists.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

JesusLovesRonwell posted:

Also, if you spent 6+ hours a day playing basketball, you'd actually be pretty good at it, believe it or not.

No, I actually wouldn't. There are plenty of physical limitations I have (myopia, astigmatism, flat feet, and just not being born with the genetics to be a 6'9" lean muscled freak of nature) that would prevent me from ever stepping foot on a professional basketball court and competing on the same level as Kobe Bryant or LeBron James in any way, shape or form.
It's not just a matter of time.

Contrarily, there's nothing stopping me from going to EVO and competing on the same level as Justin Wong or Daigo other than being able to afford a plane ticket to Las Vegas. Even still at major tournaments I have actually been able to make, I am competing on the same level. Am I going to place Top 8? Am I going to knock Justin out of Marvel? Most probably not, but I am still given the opportunity to. (I actually HAVE won games against Justin Wong...in KOF XI, not exactly SF4 or Marvel, but hey...)

That what Seth means about the lack of barrier for the FGC. Every player who enters the pot at major is treated exactly the same, other than seeding sometimes, but even still you have to win matches, and you have to avoid losing twice.

Compare that to the NBA. I can't exactly drive to Michael Jordan's office and ask him to give me a chance to go on the court because I've been practicing 6 hours a day.
Or compare that to Chess, even. I can't go up there and compete with the grandmasters with no rankings or points to my name.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

JesusLovesRonwell posted:


Serious question: wouldn't your myopia and your astigmatism kind of hurt your ability to play fighting games too?


Not really; my depth perception problems aren't a hindrance when playing a video game because it's on a flat 2-D screen. In fact, I'm actually better at playing zoning, poking and projectile characters because while I'm terrible at execution I can judge 2-D space well. In fact, that's how I beat Justin in KOFXI (I main Jyazu, of course).

Meanwhile, trying to shoot a ball at a hoop in 3-D space while trying to judge the distance of the arc I need is a real problem for me now as I've gotten older and my eyesight has gotten progressively worse.

I actually used to be a decent shooter (I remember in my first year of little league I was the team MVP for my passing and shooting skills) before I developed astigmatism, but way before that I discovered I liked pizza as much as basketball so around 8 years old or so I turned into a fatty-fatty-fat kid and my semi-successful little league basketball days were over.

As for Chess, I do play online, but only against the CPU. I actually haven't tried playing against someone else offline or online, despite studying and practicing for a few hours a week over the past few years...so I guess in chess I would be the equivalent of the training mode warrior who's too chickenshit to go to tournaments for whatever reason :(

So yeah, back to the point, while I can't say there are absolutely NO barriers to the FGC, I believe Seth's argument is that it is still way more accessible than traditional sports and games, and even most other competitive video games (Starcraft).

Shiki Dan fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Nov 18, 2011

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

redmercer posted:

If we can get away from the drama for just one second, does anyone have a decent link for a sort of "jargon encyclopedia" of fighting games? I've been playing them for twenty-odd years now and I still don't know exactly what the gently caress you people are talking about with your footsies, pokes and meaties.

This is the old-school dictionary. A lot of newer terms from the post-SF4 era aren't included, but it's a good start:

http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sfterms.html

quote:

footsies - subset of zoning focusing primarily on close range normals, where the most common goals are to knock the opponent down and set up crossup opportunities

meaty - causing an attack to hit midway into its attack duration in order to decrease the period of time between impact and the natural end of the attack, giving the opponent less time to recover before following up with another attack; most commonly performed after a knockdown

poke - safe mid or long range attack

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Why is it still called Tekken "Tag" Tournament if both players can pick solo characters???

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
The only reason I can see that happening is that VF is insanely bitter that Tekken went with SF to the prom so it hooks up with Tekken's fugly little sister in futile hopes of making it jealous.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

washow posted:

Why do you guys think that 3d fighting games never really took off in the US? Everyone is crazy into 2d stuff like SF and mvc series but there are tiny followings for games like tekken and vf (compared to 2d games).

Funny, because until SF4 came about, every 3D fighting game in the US kicked the rear end of any 2D game all day, erryday.

Even still, SF4 didn't sell THAT much more than Tekken 6, Soul Calibur 4, and MK vs DC.
Marvel vs Capcom 3 sold less than pretty much every major 3D fighter release of the past decade, even VF5 and DoA4.

Marvel and SF get more entrants at tournaments, true, but that's more to the credit that most of tournament scene in America was established by Capcom and Capcom players. Or perhaps the fact that for whatever reason 3d fighting fans seem to include greater numbers of casual players.
I know for a fact I could find a greater number of overall Tekken/SC players in my city than Marvel and SF4 players, but for whatever reason the 3d players just don't travel or show up for tournaments.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

dj_de posted:



Apparently Capcom, Namco and SEGA are going to be making some kind of game together. There appears to be a decent amount of recent FIGHTING GAME characters presented so far.

Uh, there's only Ken, Batsu, Jin, Akira, and Bahn as ORIGINAL fighting game characters.
Seems to be a hell of a lot more RPG/Action-Adventure characters, so SRPG like Namco X Capcom seems to be a safer bet.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Uh, in business, not even meeting 70% of your sales goal IS a bomb.

Not to mention, Capcom has only SHIPPED 1.4 Million SFxT units, not SOLD.
If VG Chartz is to be believed, even with a generous 10% margin of error, the game hasn't even SOLD 1 Million units yet and retailers like Wal-Mart have already dropped the price down $20 to get it off their shelves.

So yeah, less than 50% of your produced units selling at full retail price is a pretty big loving bomb.

EDIT: Gammatron 64, you're from North Carolina too?
I can assure you that SFxT is not a big thing ANYWHERE in this state.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Jmcrofts posted:

Yo ST people

Anyone have experience in the Gief-Fei matchup? I'm having a really hard time as gief and i'm looking for pointers. Particularly is there anything I can do if he corners me and does chicken wing, cl.hp xx chicken wing repeat? Lariat gets stuffed clean and CW, cl.HP seems to be a tight blockstring so I can't 360 or anything. Thanks!

Fei players pretty much relish fighting Gief because he's probably Fei's only undisputed REALLY good match-up.

If the Fei player knows his stuff he's probably using the RH Chicken Wing since it has the least recovery, but I'm pretty sure it leaves him closer for SPD.
After you block the 1st CW, close HP xx CW is guaranteed to be safe but after that you can guess.
If he tries another close HP, Gief's crouching LP will beat it clean (Fei Close HP has 4 frame start-up, Gief's crouching LP has 3 frame start-up), but really if you can get Lariat out, you should be able to get SPD out (both are zero frames).
CW and Flame Kick are both airborne from the 1st frame though I think. Any time Fei walks up to continue the blockstring after (CW, cl. HP xx CW) you should be ready to SPD him.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Top player bias isn't endemic just to London or even just one country.

Hell, a few years ago we had a fairly large state tourney that was held up for over 2 hours because Justin Wong and Marn went to lunch and then the MALL right smack dab in the middle of brackets.
No, they weren't DQed either.

I also remember Final Round tournaments back in the days where 3rd Strike and MvC2 were the main event games where, at the very minimum, 90% of the DC converters provided by staff would be stolen every year until the BYOC rule was finally implemented.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
What? No Street Fighter the Live Action Movie in the set????

At least they forget that Street Fighter Alpha Generations exists, and rightfully so.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
CvS2 Online Edition, and they should base it off the balances of EO, and then balance it even further.

The hardcore CvS2 community would poo poo all over it, of course, but gently caress 'em.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
No, you see EO was bad because RC was great for balance because it made everyone in the game competitive.

*Everyone uses A-Blanka/Sak/Cammy/Claw/Dictator for the next 6 years*

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Sade posted:

CVS2 is actually pretty boring and slow without roll canceling.

And it's boring and slow even with roll canceling. What's your point?

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

inthesto posted:

It's my understanding that KoF has a similar pattern where grapplers tend to be consistently good across games, but somebody who has actual knowledge about the games should be the one to comment on that.


That's really character-dependent. It's not so much that KOF's system favors grapplers as it is that it has good characters that just so happen to be grapplers.

As in, SNK grapplers aren't typically big, lumbering, sloppy giants like Hugo or Zangief.
Some are even tiny compared to most of the roster (Ramon, Hinako).

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Abel is based off of SNK grapplers. Except not done quite right.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Elephunk posted:

But yeah, Johnny was my first and only character for a long time when we first started playing this on modded PS2 with X2, Reload, and Slash in High School (oh god I'm old :psyduck: ).

You weren't in college when GGX2 came out??? You're a young'un.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

KingShiro posted:

:laffo: Maximilian got bodied by Romneto in MvC2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9BQVwXt-U

I wonder exactly what version of MvC2 was it that Max actually played for 10 years. Because apparently it wasn't the same MvC2 everybody else was playing.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
All of the secret characters are selected by Negative Edge.

For MR. N you need to hold both Dive and Kick and then release.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Macksy posted:

Out of curiosity, what is the big difference between kof 12 and 13? Last year at evo time 12 wasn't in the lineup and when I asked about it people poo poo all over it, but now it's hype as gently caress.

About as big a difference between Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance and Mortal Kombat 9?

...Seriously?

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Brosnan posted:

So I think ironic stick art has pretty much been done to death at this point.

Not until somebody does a Family Matters and Step-by-Step stick.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

NecroMonster posted:

I'm not totally sure that Guilty Gear is a better game, tho it does have the better character designs. P4a does basically everything that guilty gear does,

:stare:

Is...is this an actual opinion that exists???

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Akuma was always hardbanned in ST.

What chumbler is talking about are "softbans" (which aren't really bans at all) and O. Sagat is the quintessential example of that.

The only modern example I can thank that would probably be similar is Phoenix towards the very, very end of the lifespan of vanilla MvC3. There was never any "softban" for Phoenix but it was very nearly reaching toward it.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Broken Loose posted:

I remember a really hilarious tournament where Akuma wasn't banned, but if you hosed up the code you got stuck with whichever character you ended up with.

Usually the player who messed up the Akuma code got the Brown-colored Ryu.
Which basically led to people equating someone using Brown Ryu as a "lovely Akuma".

Brown Ryu specifically has his own card in SNK vs Capcom Card Fighters DS because of this.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

dj_de posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs-EBzWAFQ

All this KI talk reminded me of the only KI thing I have ever watched

Well, I guess that finally explains to me why Mike Z thought re-stand combos were a good idea in Skullgirls...

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Consoles are dead in Japan. Game is still doing very well in Japanese arcades and will sell fine on console in Europe and NA.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Antillese posted:

"Consoles are dead in Japan" is the kind of well-researched and objective analysis I come to the fighting games thread to read!

Are you serious?
Are your feelings really that hurt by the fact a certain category of hardware is not producing profit at a level you expect in a certain country on this Earth?

Look at any Japanese sales chart for the last 3 years. Take note of how many million sellers have been on DS or PSP rather than a console. Check any random week and see how many Top 10 sellers are from the DS/PSP.
Take a look at the most successful franchises in Japan and how many have completely moved away from consoles and are supposed on portable systems only (Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts).

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

AndyElusive posted:

I think we'll all be a lot happier if we assume that SFxT will end up awesome and wont turn out to be Ono making GBS threads all over the place and needlessly trolling everyone continuously over Twitter for months until release.


Yeah...doesn't work for me.

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
That's not the final list:
http://shoryuken.com/2013/01/08/evo-2013-details-game-lineup-get-your-game-to-evo-and-road-to-evo-events/


Capcom vs. SNK 2
Dead or Alive 5
Divekick
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +R
Injustice
Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code
MLP: Fighting is Magic
PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale
Skullgirls
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Smash Bros. Brawl

Are the only ones on SRK with links for donations.

I have no idea why they even bothered with Smash after previous fiascos. Even if it wins, the game would be a logistical nightmare.

The donations links for Melee and Brawl are even mixed up right now :lol:

Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine
Divekick is the only game, besides GG and CvS2, that I would actually be happy to see win.

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Shiki Dan
Oct 27, 2010

If ya can move ya toes ya back's fine

Fishmonkey posted:

Can the collective will of the Bronies overcome Sony's marketing budget? :ohdear:

Based on the marketing they spent for PSAS, I think even the Melty community would overcome Sony's budget.

quote:

By the way, I really hate the idea of companies being more or less overtly allowed to buy their game into Evo. Are they actually tracking donation sources and trying to keep that from happening, or are they okay with it because no one will complain as long as it's for charity?

At least it's actually OVERTLY admitted now.

Plus at least some of it will actually go to charity. Probably. I mean, it's not like they're going to be transparent about it. Or accountable.

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