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Gamest Mook posted:lol This gem from another of his posts: quote:Remember folks, if you're getting your butt kicked by Chun Li or Yun in 3rd Strike: Online, it's not the game's fault. It's your fault for not parrying enough.
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Aug 31, 2011 16:20
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Secondly, high level play requires you grind muscle memory. I think this is bad because I don't find it to be fun and I don't have a respect for it like I do for reaction time, strategy, or reading. Why wouldn't the game be better as a whole if this wasn't a prerequisite to serious competitive play? Can you name some real time games you think are interesting at a 'serious' competitive level? Grinding muscle memory is a fundamental part of the ones I can think of (FPS, RTS, Fighters) and I'm not sure how you can separate it from reaction time like that either. Being able to do poo poo more quickly and perfectly than the other guy is always going to be a big advantage in games of sufficient pace - if you don't have respect for this ability then stick to turn based games or something. I don't want to make an 'esports' argument but nobody would complain that soccer is alienating because being the best at it requires you to basically dedicate your life to physical and technical training outside of matches. Why should it be different for video games? Of course there are degrees here: Starcraft 2 is hugely less demanding than Starcraft 1 mechanically, and this has probably contributed to its popularity in the west, but top competitive play still requires muscle memory and motor skills that the majority of its fanbase will never reach and they know it. I think what you really want for accessibility is for new players to be able to reasonably quickly execute something that looks to them a little bit like what the best players do - even if its not truly the same and a lot less efficient because they're bad that's ok. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 00:07
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Well it is for me I'm awful at these games I just like to watch them then play them frustratedly for a bit!
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Oct 24, 2011 00:14
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Eyeballing distances is one of the last things I would put on a list of things that drives newcomers away from table top wargaming. I also think you don't quite understand that repetitious grinding is a huge part of what looks like "great reactions" to the casual observer. You might respect the obscure combo more but that also means the player spent time in training mode practising a very specific combo in a specific setup and I don't see how this is any more attractive an idea to new players than getting a BnB down. It's the same in any fast paced competitive activity - a great reaction time is very much based upon practising things until they are absolutely second nature, do-it-without-thinking actions. Do new players think practising the timing and spacing of a key anti-air normal is much more fun than getting a tight BnB down? I kind of doubt it, but it's just as important and there's very little you can do to reduce the execution requirements. Cat Machine posted:It's interesting that you bring up soccer players, because any kind of professional athlete will spend hours, days and weeks perfecting their execution when it comes to passing a ball, taking a shot, making a tackle or anything else. I brought it up to be fair. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 01:37
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FIFA is planning to reduce the pitch size by a factor of 10 and institute 15 minute halves because fitness and athleticism are barriers to the popularity of the sport. Goalkeepers have been replaced by a 4+ saving throw.
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Oct 24, 2011 05:01
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Fenn the Fool! posted:If chess had pieces that weighed hundreds of pounds you'd have to work out in order to play; I don't think anyone here would say this sounds like a good idea. If chess can be an interesting and strategic competitive game with the limitations of a turn based system and without any barrier to entry, then surely a game played in real time can also stand purely on the merits of strategy and reaction time. Chess pieces arbitrarily weighing a lot is a barrier to playing the game at all. Street Fighter is not hard to play - it might be hard to play well but that isn't the same thing. Execution requirements are not "padding", they are a defining feature of real time games. Games with high execution requirements have their viable strategies defined not just by theory but by what is physically possible, likely, and reasonable. Imagine playing tennis by simply having each player declare what they do in response to each other - it makes no sense because the execution requirements of covering a court, controlling the racket and ball define the game. Similar rules apply for real time video games - in a game of any pace and length you simply can't play the perfect strategic game, and your ability to out-think your opponent is only one facet of matching each other's ability to play the game as a whole. It goes further than just making stuff difficult to do, particularly in the tougher games you have to start making choices that you wouldn't in a 'perfect' game. This is not a failure of the game, it's actually a feature of the strategic framework. I honestly think you don't understand the fundamental differences in appeal between turn-based and real time games. Some people enjoy the unique features of the latter, maybe give Yomi a go instead? Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 07:32
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Fenn the Fool! posted:I completely disagree, I'm asking that muscle memory be removed from the games because given two players I'd rather see the one with game-kowledge, reflexes, and strategy win over the guy who has the muscle memory to hit one frame links and FADC's. These are pretty much inextricably linked and I find it amusing that you keep talking about how great reflexes are while using only turn based games as examples. edit; separating them only makes sense if the game is very slow indeed or the execution requirements are on the level of having a button to DP, a button to DP FADC in to combo, a button to "execute footsies" whatever that would do, etc. Fighting games actually have a pretty great basic control scheme that allows for a lot of different options to arise from just a few controls and I'm not sure how you think you could change execution requirements enough to separate reflexes and muscle memory without altering this greatly too. Not even Smash Brothers manages that IMO. Broken Looses's post about input design higher up on the page is really great. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Oct 24, 2011 |
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Oct 24, 2011 07:47
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If FG were as big as basketball competitively you probably wouldn't be able to go play in the same bracket as Justin Wong either. They're competitively accessible in that respect only because the scene is small enough that allowing anyone who wants it in to the main tournament is not a logistical impossibility.
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Nov 18, 2011 12:00
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So let me get this straight Zand, Soul Calibur's bonus unlockables are terrible game ruining things but Smash's intrinsic items and levels being so bad you have to turn them off is a-ok did I get that right
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Nov 29, 2011 09:36
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Spaceship Zero posted:But at any rate, no customization is allowed in either in competitive play. I'm just saying that claiming SC4 is bad because it has customization and a dumb single player focus while saying Tekken is rad is silly, when it has the same stuff and it doesn't ultimately matter in either case. Not to mention there are sooooo many more reasons why SC4 is bad. Zand's statements were entirely about his expectations of each game not their actual content so naturally it's silly if you try and take what he wrote as any sort of real comparison of games.
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Dec 1, 2011 05:48
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I'm just laughing because the nurse's outfit immediately made me think of Ivy and then I found out her name is Valentine is that on purpose?
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Dec 16, 2011 05:18
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40 OZ posted:"She looks like a SLUT!" That's some serious projection.
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Dec 16, 2011 16:37
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40 OZ posted:Which is a really weak charge that really means nothing in terms of "Is this game antifeminist?" None of that is operating in a vacuum though. Do you know anyone who expected the new Mortal Kombat to be a paragon of feminist ideology? Are you amazed when they don't grumble that much about Mileena? People are grumbling more about SG presentation because the idea of a fighting game developed by and for fighting game fans sounds great, they may like the sound of the mechanics and how it's progressing, and then they find out that the presentation of the characters is frankly more than a little embarrassing (not to everyone, but again I have no idea how you'd be surprised at people taking issue with panty shots or that nurse outfit). They're new characters in a new game, not reoccurring ones that frankly everyone has probably accepted will never be any good. That you think this difference is something to do with religious fundamentalism smacks of a ridiculous level of defensiveness.
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Dec 16, 2011 16:46
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Why don't you take it to the Minorities in Gaming thread or the Positive Portrayals of Women thread then? I'm willing to believe that you're sincere in your wish to discuss it but your "She looks like a SLUT!" post really made it look like you weren't interested in an actual discussion.
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Dec 16, 2011 17:09
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I just realised the skullgirls page has character measurements lmao VVV You puppetmaster
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Dec 16, 2011 17:17
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Van Ishikawa posted:Skullgirls character designs absolutely have an element of pandering and male gaze to them but I don't find them exceptionally awful compared to other fighting game female characters. Of course they're not, I don't think anyone reasonable would claim that. I don't agree with complaints that they're too anime or anything either for the record. There's quite a bit to like about their designs as well as some stuff I think is unfortunate.
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Dec 16, 2011 17:22
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With all the magic and technology in fighting game universes you'd think they could invent some sort of sports bra.
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Dec 22, 2011 07:02
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Gamest Mook posted:aaaaaaaaaa 42 hit combo is "meaningful" lol
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Dec 22, 2011 15:48
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 06:29 |
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Elephunk posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-seBa6u6qQ This is really great.
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Jan 19, 2012 01:03
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