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myron cope
Apr 21, 2009

This is going to end badly for the owners. Very badly.


Kekekela posted:

Hockey 102 - NBA refugees welcome

I would change the title to this if, you know, I could change the title.

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Dangerllama
Nov 16, 2007



Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:

Hi hockey goons. I'm one of your hoops refugees. Multi-sport posters may remember me for rooting for such assholes as The New York Yankees and The LA Lakers. My entire qualification for being a hockey fan is winning my fantasy hockey league a few years back despite never watching a game or knowing anything about hockey, thus infuriating the Canadian that ran the league. I haven't picked a hockey team yet, but I bought Gamecenter and NHL '12 and have been getting into the swing of things. And I watched Caps-Preds tonight and it was pretty rad.

Since I don't have a team yet, what teams have good announcers/broadcasting teams? I use sports for background noise and I like having a good announcer on.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Chicago. Eddie Olczyk is an awesome color guy. Best play-by-play is Doc Emrick by a loving mile, but I believe he only does games on Versus. Same goes for Mark Lee, who does play-by-play for the Western Conference on CBC.

Vigilance posted:

Colorado Avalanche: Their announcers get ridiculously excited over even minor good plays. It's very amusing. They sound like a couple of people who are seeing hockey for the first time.

God I wish this weren't true.

Stan Kroenke owns both the Avalanche and the network they broadcast on, Altitude. They also make the cameramen zoom way in because y'know...people don't give a poo poo about how the play unfolds; they just want to watch sweet stickhandling moves.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 17, 2007

I can't wait to feel your love...

So that I can take it away


Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:

Hi hockey goons. I'm one of your hoops refugees. Multi-sport posters may remember me for rooting for such assholes as The New York Yankees and The LA Lakers. My entire qualification for being a hockey fan is winning my fantasy hockey league a few years back despite never watching a game or knowing anything about hockey, thus infuriating the Canadian that ran the league. I haven't picked a hockey team yet, but I bought Gamecenter and NHL '12 and have been getting into the swing of things. And I watched Caps-Preds tonight and it was pretty rad.

Since I don't have a team yet, what teams have good announcers/broadcasting teams? I use sports for background noise and I like having a good announcer on.

You really can't go wrong with any team, even the bad teams are fun to watch because the league is enjoying a good amount of parity lately. I'd suggest just trying to catch as many games as possible via Versus, NHL network, or streams and find which team you find exciting to watch. Announcers will grow on you over time regardless of whatever team you pick.

As a homer plug though I would like to suggest the Boston Bruins, since you seem to root for teams everyone loves to hate. The Bruins-Montreal Canadiens rivalry is one of the best and oldest in professional sports and those are always fun games. Here's an example of a good one from last season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRniqIVzCzk

not shown in the video is the line brawls in a game which featured 164 penalty minutes, multiple fights, etc

Also Tyler Seguin owns bones and is 19 years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-1NTOObtgg

Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at Nov 17, 2011 around 07:45

Perdido
Apr 29, 2009

CORY SCHNEIDER IS FAR MORE MENTALLY STABLE THAN LUONGO AND CAN HANDLE THE PRESSURES OF GOALTENDING IN VANCOUVER


Dangerllama posted:

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Chicago. Eddie Olczyk is an awesome color guy. Best play-by-play is Doc Emrick by a loving mile, but I believe he only does games on Versus. Same goes for Mark Lee, who does play-by-play for the Western Conference on CBC.

Mark Lee is loving terrible.

To add on to the Hawks broadcasters, Pat Foley is pretty awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iviLY1RvNc

Bullshit the way he went out.

m3talh3ad
Jan 28, 2005


ElwoodCuse posted:

You can't get them yet from anyone, so I'd advise signing up for emails from the NHL and maybe the Penguins too. They'll let you know the deal about public tickets. Minnesota hosted last year and made their ticket announcement in late April.

Thanks for the replies about the draft. Is there just a general news letter that I could sign up for that you're talking about?

Also, since it is a bachelor party there will be much more fun to be had than sitting and watching the draft, even though the bachelor himself follows hockey much more closely than I do. We're all Caps fans so going to Pittsburgh will be fun. And most of us are Ravens fans too, so that makes it double our pleasure.

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004


What counts as a "scoring chance" when they're showing team stats?

Dangerllama
Nov 16, 2007



Kekekela posted:

What counts as a "scoring chance" when they're showing team stats?

Wikipedia defines it as a shot from inside "the house", which sounds about right.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 17, 2007

I can't wait to feel your love...

So that I can take it away


Kekekela posted:

What counts as a "scoring chance" when they're showing team stats?

It's pretty much up to the discretion of whoever is keeping track of stats and is kind of hard to actually quantify. Basically from my (feeble) understanding it's a shot that had a good chance at being a goal if it hadn't been for the goalie making a big save, like a save off of a breakaway for example.

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

I always thought a scoring chance didn't even need to be a shot on goal.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Tonight's starting lineup is
brought to you by Satan.


ElwoodCuse posted:

I always thought a scoring chance didn't even need to be a shot on goal.

My definition of a scoring chance is whether or not my heart rate elevates in anticipation of the play resulting in a goal.

Sometimes you just know when it's a good opportunity, and there's no clear way to define it.

Anders
Nov 8, 2004

I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you


Just a quick question about making an ice rink. How cold does it have to be before you spray on water? Were currently having 0 C to -2 C for at least a few days. Is that enough?

mcvey
Aug 31, 2006

Jesus Christ I had to change this turd of an avatar. Oh yea I'm really good at CS:GO so listen to me as I team flash you.

Anders posted:

Just a quick question about making an ice rink. How cold does it have to be before you spray on water? Were currently having 0 C to -2 C for at least a few days. Is that enough?

Outdoors? No definitely not. Here they usually wait until there's a solid week of -15C~ weather.

Anders
Nov 8, 2004

I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you


mcvey posted:

Outdoors? No definitely not. Here they usually wait until there's a solid week of -15C~ weather.

That's what I thought

... I just want to play again soon. I even bought new gloves.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Tonight's starting lineup is
brought to you by Satan.


You only need some snow and temperatures slightly below freezing to start your ice.. as long as it gets to that -15C point at night, you should be okay to flood it. Even if it warms up a bit during the day it should remain skatable.

cucka
Nov 4, 2009

TOUCHDOWN DETROIT LIONS
Sorry about all
the bad posting.


http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=h...orName=Skruller

I'll just leave this fuckity abomination here.

Vital Signs
Oct 17, 2007

bump-bump...bump-bump...bumppppppppp......


Screw all of you. If Datsyukian isn't a word, I don't know what is.

HooverDam
Aug 16, 2004



What sort of rules does the NHL have pertaining to the Ice surface?

The reason I ask this is the following:

Growing up in PHX I never really got into hockey but I'm ostensibly a Coyotes fan. I don't want them to move in large part b/c they just built that nice new arena and that would just seem lovely. I was hoping that if they ever get the ownership thing worked out that maybe as a way to increase interest in AZ would be to have Phoenix host an upcoming Winter Classic.

A winter classic in the desert--hogwash you say?! Well I was thinking they could play it at Chase Field, where the D'backs play. The entirety of Downtown PHX is served by a "district cooling" system called NRG. It allows for an outdoor man made ice skating rink at an outdoor downtown shopping center. I was thinking they could use it to create an ice surface at Chase Field and play a game with the roof and panels open.

Anyhow, its definitely a gimmicky idea, but I think making a big event/party sort of thing like that would be important for grabbing the attention of this particular fan base. Its a fair weather fan base made up of transplants anyhow, so I feel like teams have to go more out of their way and be extra creativity, especially for a sport thats more at the margins in this region like Hockey.

myron cope
Apr 21, 2009

This is going to end badly for the owners. Very badly.


I think if the NHL really wanted to have one in Phoenix they probably could. It would definitely have to be a night game, but after last year I think they may be going to night games anyway. The biggest problem would be TV ratings. Nobody would watch. They'd have to play the Red Wings and even then nobody would watch. That's why they have had the Pens in it twice already, and now the Flyers twice. They go for big market(not necessarily true I guess) teams with a lot of fans across the country, and/or big rivalries they can market.

HooverDam
Aug 16, 2004



^I guess I didnt think about it from a National TV perspective, I as being selfish/thinking locally. I just know its going to take a lot to make the Coyotes even close to relevant. It would be nice if PHX could secure NHL All Star weekend, it was supposed to happen a while back but that got hosed up.

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

The NHL once played a preseason game outdoors in Las Vegas and the Stars and Wild were considering a preseason game at the Houston Texans stadium before giving up for financial reasons. I don't think it would be a problem ice-wise to have a game outside in Phoenix.

myron cope
Apr 21, 2009

This is going to end badly for the owners. Very badly.


HooverDam posted:

^I guess I didnt think about it from a National TV perspective, I as being selfish/thinking locally. I just know its going to take a lot to make the Coyotes even close to relevant. It would be nice if PHX could secure NHL All Star weekend, it was supposed to happen a while back but that got hosed up.

I think the Draft/ASG are very possible. Although the Draft isn't going to bring in fans, really. The ASG might help I guess.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Tonight's starting lineup is
brought to you by Satan.


Winter Classic is chosen more on a teams' market size than issues with getting outdoor ice.

Technology would make the ice possible, it's been done before.

sba
Jul 9, 2001

I LIKE HERTLS

xzzy posted:

Winter Classic is chosen more on a teams' market size than issues with getting outdoor ice.

The first one was in Buffalo, which is not the hugest market in the world.

Granted it was a "trial" thing. but the whole idea came from the Sabres organization.

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

sba posted:

The first one was in Buffalo, which is not the hugest market in the world.

Granted it was a "trial" thing. but the whole idea came from the Sabres organization.

And the NHL in all their wisdom tried to keep it from happening

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

HooverDam posted:

What sort of rules does the NHL have pertaining to the Ice surface?

The reason I ask this is the following:

Growing up in PHX I never really got into hockey but I'm ostensibly a Coyotes fan. I don't want them to move in large part b/c they just built that nice new arena and that would just seem lovely. I was hoping that if they ever get the ownership thing worked out that maybe as a way to increase interest in AZ would be to have Phoenix host an upcoming Winter Classic.

A winter classic in the desert--hogwash you say?! Well I was thinking they could play it at Chase Field, where the D'backs play. The entirety of Downtown PHX is served by a "district cooling" system called NRG. It allows for an outdoor man made ice skating rink at an outdoor downtown shopping center. I was thinking they could use it to create an ice surface at Chase Field and play a game with the roof and panels open.

Anyhow, its definitely a gimmicky idea, but I think making a big event/party sort of thing like that would be important for grabbing the attention of this particular fan base. Its a fair weather fan base made up of transplants anyhow, so I feel like teams have to go more out of their way and be extra creativity, especially for a sport thats more at the margins in this region like Hockey.

It could be done. They have a small outdoor ice rink in downtown Phoenix this year. I imagine that Chase Field would be a better fit than the Cardinals stadium and you'd want to keep the roof open, since closing it would defeat the purpose of the Winter Classic. It could work for attendance, since we already have a lot of tourists out here for the bowl games, but I'm not sure if it would have the same mystique as an outdoor cold weather game at a place like Fenway Park or even a new stadium like Target Field.

Capt Murphy
Nov 16, 2005



Pretty drat helpful thread this one. I've been watching hockey casually for a few years, mostly the playoffs because playoff hockey is amazing. It was actually a random Stars playoff game my freshman year (2002) that went something like six OTs that got me hooked. I've been trying to get more into the sport by following the Caps since I went to undergrad in DC and still live here. I felt like a terrible bandwagon fan at first until I saw them continually lose in hilarious fashion in the playoffs and realized they fit in well with my teams (from Houston originally.) I managed to get to one of the AHL finals games last year when the Aeros made it and that experience was loving awesome.

Anyhoo all that said, I'm still struggling to get into regular season hockey. I think part of the problem is that offense just looks like organized chaos to me. I'm wondering if there are some things I can focus on or stuff to really watch during games that will help me understand offensive play. I get the rules for the most part, but I want to understand what it is teams are doing going forward.

Minister Robathan
Jan 3, 2007

The Alien Leader of Transportation

Capt Murphy posted:

Anyhoo all that said, I'm still struggling to get into regular season hockey. I think part of the problem is that offense just looks like organized chaos to me. I'm wondering if there are some things I can focus on or stuff to really watch during games that will help me understand offensive play. I get the rules for the most part, but I want to understand what it is teams are doing going forward.

In a large part it is organised chaos. Each player on offence has a spot where they ideally will be, but there aren't all that many set plays because hockey is largely a game where you're reacting to what is around you. The closest to set plays you get are off faceoffs where the defence has to react to the offence quickly. Of course, once a team has a pp, they have a lot more time to set up, so you'll see set plays in that case.

The transition game actually has a lot of set plays, but you'll really only see them on power plays because thats the only time there's enough time to set up the exact play that's been drawn up. Otherwise, the forecheckers are there to either pressure the puck carrier into making a less good choice, or the back guys are plugging up the neutral zone to also prevent the desired play from happening.

Cycling down low is probably the closest thing there is to a set play you'll see at even strength, where one guy gets the puck, starts moving, then dishes a short pass to another guy, usually in the corner still. The idea here is more to keep possession than try to score, although cycling does often lead to poor coverage which will eventually lead to a scoring chance. Since the interference/obstruction crackdowns have came down, there's a lot less need to do a "pure" cycle these days (ie., 2-3 players keep the puck in the corner for a long time by moving and making these short passes), so it definitely looks more and more like organised chaos. The point of offence in hockey is to try and get a man free, get the d to react to him, one way or another, and score from this imbalance.

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

"Everybody relax. I'm here."


The dump and chase is organized offensive chaos. Instead of getting the puck stripped from you when you try to get into the offensive zone, you dump it in past the D and hope to outwork them for the puck, either outskating them or outmuscling them near the boards.

From there you usually pass it to one of the other forwards and start what's known as the cycle, aka all those boring passes where people yell "SHOOOOOOT! Shoot the puck!"


Then there's skating it in, where you literally skate the puck into the offensive zone. Defense tries to force the offense to the outside along the boards, since it offers a worse shot and runs them out of room. Offense will 1) try to pass it across to an open teammate 2) Get into a battle along the boards when the offense and the D eventually collide 3) Try to do something to get to the inside of the Defense, or 4) drop pass to a teammate coming up behind them. The hope is that the defense is out of the way of the offensive player who came up from behind.

[NOTE: This is just my view of how things work and what I see.]

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Tonight's starting lineup is
brought to you by Satan.


Pro hockey is all about tricking the opponent into making a mistake. There are a number of offensive schemes that teams use to try to improve the chances at opening a hole in the defense, but these can be pretty hard to spot unless they're pointed out to you, or you watch a lot of hockey.

The catch is that defenses are extremely good these days at avoiding being tricked. Many times, offensive plays don't get a chance to develop because a defensive player breaks it up.

But when a defensive player does screw up, it quite frequently results in a goal (or at least a shot on goal) because offensive players are really loving good at exploiting weaknesses.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

BEST IN THE WORLD

It's really just like basketball or soccer. Offenses try and find an open man with the puck so that that guy can shoot it in a good scoring area and hopefully generate a chance. There are wrinkles, of course. Sometimes players take shots from terrible angles and these shots have little chance of going in. In those situations, the player is taking the shot either because he feels he lacks options and doesn't want to turn the puck over, or because he is hoping the goalie will bobble the shot and give up a rebound opportunity. This is different from soccer where you would almost never see a player shoot from a bad angle if they can avoid it because in soccer it's so much harder to get possession back. Hockey has a much smaller playing surface and less players. It's less of a risk to shoot from a bad spot.

Other times teams will cycle the puck and it will be confusing because it looks like they don't even care about generating a shot but the cycle is all designed to get the other team's defenses moving and hopefully to cause a player on the other team to make a mistake and miss coverage, which will lead to a passing lane opening up and/or a shooting lane opening up for the offensive team. The one caveat to cycling is that hockey teams often have defensive lines as well. Usually these are the third and fourth lines on a hockey team. These players will cycle the puck but sometimes will be more concerned with simply maintaining possession of the puck than creating a scoring opportunity, as these lines are not focused on scoring goals as they generally lack the offensive skill and creativity to do so. Their goal is simply to prevent their own team from getting scored on, and possessing the puck for long periods helps them do that.

On the powerplay, things are different. Powerplays pass the puck around with the extra open space with the goal of two things: either to create an odd man situation, preferably a two on one down low, or to get the puck to another offensive player in order to take a quick one-timer which if executed properly will result in a quality shot on net.

Hockey is all about passing lanes, or seams as you will sometimes hear them called. Almost everything done offensively is with the goal in mind of opening up these lanes in order to get the puck to other teammates in good scoring spots.

Capt Murphy
Nov 16, 2005



Thanks guys really helpful stuff. I don't have much trouble following the puck so I think I'll start to pay attention to movement away from the puck and how the defense is moving/shifting. My soccer understanding grew exponentially when I started to pay attention to movement off the ball and I think a similar approach will work here. I didn't know what cycling was before so that makes a lot of sense now.

uinfuirudo
Aug 11, 2007


Vigilance posted:

Other times teams will cycle the puck and it will be confusing because it looks like they don't even care about generating a shot but the cycle is all designed to get the other team's defenses moving and hopefully to cause a player on the other team to make a mistake and miss coverage, which will lead to a passing lane opening up and/or a shooting lane opening up for the offensive team. The one caveat to cycling is that hockey teams often have defensive lines as well. Usually these are the third and fourth lines on a hockey team. These players will cycle the puck but sometimes will be more concerned with simply maintaining possession of the puck than creating a scoring opportunity, as these lines are not focused on scoring goals as they generally lack the offensive skill and creativity to do so. Their goal is simply to prevent their own team from getting scored on, and possessing the puck for long periods helps them do that.

A good thing to remember is the cycle can be used to tire out opponents and force them into icing the puck so the best line can get in against the lower lines and gain goals.

The second thing is that this leads to the strategy of taking shots into the mass of people in front of the goalie. Since the cycle takes a bit of time they are also trying to get the goalie to lose sight of the puck before shooting at where he isn't.

I think that maybe it would be a good idea to talk about the teams and why you should or shouldn't support them.

marioinblack
Sep 21, 2007

Truer words have never been spoken


uinfuirudo posted:

A good thing to remember is the cycle can be used to tire out opponents and force them into icing the puck so the best line can get in against the lower lines and gain goals.

The second thing is that this leads to the strategy of taking shots into the mass of people in front of the goalie. Since the cycle takes a bit of time they are also trying to get the goalie to lose sight of the puck before shooting at where he isn't.

I think that maybe it would be a good idea to talk about the teams and why you should or shouldn't support them.
Another thing a constant cycle does is force an impatient team to go after the puck carrier and possibly trip/hook/slash/etc him and give the cycling team the powerplay. Long possessions in the offensive zone leads to penalties quite often.

Lawnie
Sep 5, 2006

That is my helmet
Give it back
you are a lion
It doesn't even fit


I didn't realize you were still using my very early explanations of some things. And if you want to appreciate offensive hockey, look at incredibly creative players like Patrick Kane and Pavel Datsyuk. Those are a couple guys who can put the puck in incredible places in many situations you would never expect them to.

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004


Do skaters wear some kind of padding on the sides of the upper body? Because otherwise, jesus christ, the way the lay down in front of shooters to block shots seems like it would be some super painful/rib breaking poo poo.

SubCrid TC
Feb 10, 2004

Believe.

Kekekela posted:

Do skaters wear some kind of padding on the sides of the upper body? Because otherwise, jesus christ, the way the lay down in front of shooters to block shots seems like it would be some super painful/rib breaking poo poo.

If they're doing it properly, the goal is to take the shot in the shinpads.

Normally when a player gets injured on a shot block it's because he misread it and took it on the foot or took it a bit above the knee after the shin guard stops.

The only padding on the upper body is usually the shoulder pads which incorporate some upper body padding as well. A few guys who play in the crease a lot wear extra armour on their backs to take some of the pain out of cross checks to the back.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004


drat..I swear when Hedman lays down it looks like he's trying to get one right in the ribs half the time. I guess being seven feet tall makes it tougher to gauge or something.

Dangerllama
Nov 16, 2007



The stuff they wear in the pros is ridiculous. See these pads for a baseline of what you can start to get at the top end.

Watch 24-7 Flyers Rangers and take note of the gear they're wearing in the locker rooms. The guys that make their money going down on shots look like they're prepping for riot control.

Related: I think the #1 reason that concussions are getting worse and worse every year is because of the absolutely massive amounts of padding players are allowed to wear in today's game, eliminating the repercussions of going into guys at full speed with their bodies. Disallow large shoulder and elbow caps and I think you'll see concussions drop, if at the cost of other injuries.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006

Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.

-Robert F. Kennedy on Being a Minnesota Sports Fan

Think of it like medieval armor in a way. Its largely protective but any point where joints have to bend there are usually openings and what not where you can get hit. Elbow pads for example generally have some sort of forearm protection but there is usually some sort of gap between where the glove ends and the forearm protection begins. It depends though.

The shoulder pads I wear are thin as hell and it is basically an inch thick piece of foam so if a fast shot goes high and hits me in the gut its going to hurt really bad.

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xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Tonight's starting lineup is
brought to you by Satan.


The elbow guard / glove gap wasn't always there.. once upon a time players wore longer gloves that left little to no gap.

Gloves got shorter for comfort, I assume. But it does make for nasty injuries when a guy gets stepped on.

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