Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«91 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Kaleidoscope
Sep 8, 2007

The Internet makes me dizzy.


What are "Ultimate Comics"?

Wikipedia posted:

Ultimate Comics is an imprint of books published by Marvel Comics, featuring re-imagined and updated versions of the company's super-hero characters, including Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Avengers, and the Fantastic Four. The imprint was launched in 2000 with the publication of the series Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate X-Men. The characters have new origins, freeing them from the sometimes convoluted back-histories of the original versions. The universe has been designated as "Earth-1610" within the Marvel Multiverse, which comprises an infinite number of alternate universes.

A lot however has happened in the past ten years and the Ultimate Universe has become just as complex as normal continuity books in some ways. Terrible writers, long delays and a characters that lacked significant differences from their original counterparts made this re-launch necessary to keep the line relevant and interesting. Where as before Ultimate characters were generally just heroes retooled for a 21st century audience there are far more radical changes now to keep the stories significantly different than what you'll likely see in normal Marvel Universe books. It's also probably worth noting that the The Ultimates have had a very obvious influence on Marvel's movie interpretations.

Here's What You Missed...
NOTE:If you want to catch up yourself you should read Ultimate Comics: Doomsday;Ultimate Comics: Avengers vs. New Ultimates; Ultimate Spider-Man: The Death of Spider-Man and Ultimate Comics: Fallout


Peter Parker, a newly-turned 16 year-old from Queens and of course Spider-Man, is dead. Killed by Norman Osborn, the Green Goblin (a far more literal goblin in the Ultimate U) after taking a bullet meant for Captain America, while defending his family, May Parker and Gwen Stacy, and friends, Johnny "The Human Torch" Storm and Bobby "Iceman" Drake. It's worth noting that outside of a few exceptions death bears a greater sense of permanence in the Ultimate Universe than your average super-hero comic.


Nick Fury (whom in the Ultimate U bears an uncanny resemblance to Samuel L. Jackson) has resumed control of S.H.I.E.L.D. and The Ultimates (The Ultimate version of The Avengers) after previous head, Carol Danvers, lost Spider-Man and fell to a coup by Gregory Stark (Tony's blonde, more ambitious and now deceased twin brother). Though content to be back in his old seat Fury blames himself for the death of Peter Parker.


Of the remaining Ultimates, Tony Stark has been invited to take his brother's seat in a secret society of the wealthy elite who desire to shape the world in a more favorable manner. Steve Rogers, who also blames himself for the death of Peter Parker, is AWOL. Bruce Banner is undergoing hypnotherapy treatment courtesy of Jean Grey Karen Page at the request of Nick Fury. Thor remains one of the Ultimates and Hawkeye has seemingly left the team but remains an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.


The Fantastic Four have disbanded. Reed Richards decided humanity was not using science completely to their benefit and attacked the Earth. After being defeated he was left drifting in space but has now found his way back and formed a new collective for a presently unknown purpose. Johnny Storm is grieving the loss of his friend Peter Parker with Kitty Pryde and Bobby Drake. Susan Storm is engaged to a no-longer-rocky Benjamin Grimm.


Mutants have been revealed to not to be a genetic anomaly as previously believed but the failed result of one of the United States governments many attempts to recreate the Super Soldier Serum that created Captain America. Pietro Maximoff is attempting to regain his deceased father's former role as perceived leader of mutantkind.

What's Next:
There are four titles that are kicking off the re-launch of Ultimate Comics:


The Ultimates
Written by Jonathan Hickman (Ultimate Comics: Thor; FF; Secret Warriors; S.H.I.E.L.D.; The Red Wing)
Illustrated by Esad Ribic (Uncanny X-Force; Loki; Silver Surfer: Requiem; Sub-Mariner: The Depths)

Hickman has received a lot of praise as of late and is worthy of all of it. He's brought back a lot of interest to the 'Fantastic Four'/'FF' with his long-form story-telling and did a pretty fantastic job of wrapping up 'Secret Warriors'. The first issue is out and it's already looking to be a fantastic start with a lot of momentum. Captain America is missing; Nick Fury is struggling to maintain control as head of S.H.I.E.L.D. despite only just getting it back having to deal with Asgardians and the new super-powers of the EU and Reed Richards makes his move with The Children of Tomorrow.


Hawkeye
Written by Jonathan Hickman (see above)
Illustrated by Rafa Sandoval (Ultimate Comics: Doomsday; Avengers: The Initiative; Incredible Hercules)

A four-issue mini-series and Hickman's other Ultimate Comics project. He has however proven himself equally capable of working in the short-form with the goon approved 'Ultimate Comics: Thor' and his current creator owned work 'The Red Wing'. Ultimate Hawkeye began as something of a hybrid of 616 Hawkeye and Bullseye. He favors a bow but claims to never miss with any projectile. He began as a relatively fun character in Mark Millar's 'The Ultimates' that became borderline suicidal and awful in Jeph Loeb's 'Ultimates 3' and beyond after his wife and child were killed by the first Black Widow. This appears to be a return to the original personality the character once possessed however. Hawkeye is given a covert mission by Nick Fury to retrieve a serum designed to create new mutants.


X-Men
Written by Nick Spencer (Morning Glories; Iron Man 2.0; Spider-Island: Cloak & Dagger)
Illustrated by Paco Medina (Deadpool; New Warriors; X-Men)

Spencer is still something of an unknown quantity. His creator-owned work 'Morning Glories' is pretty love-it or hate-it, 'Iron Man 2.0' gets fairly lukewarm reactions and his work on 'Secret Avengers' is mostly reviled. The recent 'Spider-Island: Cloak & Dagger' tie-in is great however and the previews of 'Ultimate Comics: X-Men #1' are looking good so it's easy to remain hopeful. The world is in a panic over the recently revealed news that mutants are man-made. This book looks to revolve around Iceman, Kitty Pryde, The Human Torch, Rogue and son-of-Wolverine, Jimmy Hudson. Quicksilver looks to be the likely antagonist.


Spider-Man
Written by Brian Michael Bendis (seriously? umm...Ultimate Spider-Man; The Avengers; The New Avengers; Dark Avengers; House of M; Secret Invasion, etc.)
Illustrated by Sara Pichelli (Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man [Vol. 1]; X-Men Pixie Strikes Back; Runaways)

What was once the surest bet of the Ultimate line Spider-Man is now the biggest mystery. Peter Parker is dead but there is a new Spider-Man by the name of Miles Morales, a 13(!) year-old from Brooklyn. He is half black/half Puerto Rican which has caused a great deal of controversy for the Fox News crowd. He also appears to have a slightly different power-set than Peter Parker did with a Spider-Woman-esque sting and the ability to turn cloak himself. Not much is known about his origins or what the story will be but it has been revealed he will receive some advice and guidance from Aunt May and Gwen Stacy and will face some familiar Spider-Man rogues. Regardless of your feelings towards Miles or Bendis this is probably the most newsworthy of the Ultimate Comics relaunch.

Link to the previous thread

Kaleidoscope fucked around with this message at Aug 27, 2011 around 02:29

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kaleidoscope
Sep 8, 2007

The Internet makes me dizzy.


One year later, the state of the union is weak: Washington D.C. is a crater, the majority of the America's leaders killed in an strike by Reed Richards and his City; mutant-hunting Nimrod Sentinels control the American Southwest that has been abandoned by what's left of the US government; Texas has seceded from the union and Peter Parker is still dead.

Divided We Fall


Here's the current line-up of Ultimate Comics:

The Ultimates (DWF begins at #13)
Written by Sam Humphries (Our Love Is Real; Higher Earth)
Illustrated by Billy Tan (Shadowland, New Avengers: Secret Invasion)

Losing Hickman is a bad sign for this title. He did a fantastic job of breathing life back into the Ultimates but his storyline with Reed Richards and The City wrapped up a bit too quickly. However, Humphries has been working with him to ensure a smooth transition so it may be prudent to remain optimistic. Issue #13 at least is a strong start to the new storyline: Captain America returns, Iron Man has a new set of armor and the Ultimates will reunite to take back America


X-Men (DWF begins at #14)
Written by Brian Wood (DMZ; Northlanders; Conan the Barbarian; The Massive; Demo; X-Men [yeah the 616 version...he's doing both])
Illustrated by Paco Medina (Ultimate Comics: X-Men) & Reilly Brown (Cable & Deadpool; Prince of Power)

Real talk: Nick Spencer's twelve issue run on Ultimate Comics: X-Men was a mess. No storyline was given enough attention constantly moving from character to character between issues. Spencer brought back bad characters (or maybe he didn't?) with seemingly no reason or explanation. He raised dozens of questions without answering one of them. Wood however is doing his damnest to bring the focus back down to Kitty Pryde and her group of runaway mutants. Seeing sentinels as the responsibility of the "X-Men" Kitty and Co. are heading to the southwest to see what good they can do.


Spider-Man (DWF begins at #13)
Written by Brian Michael Bendis (Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man; The Avengers; New Avengers; Avengers vs. X-Men)
Illustrated by David Marquez (Fantastic Four: Season One; The Magdalena)

Have you enjoyed Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man so far since the relaunch? If so then you'll probably continue enjoying it. Not much has changed here. There is no indication Bendis will leave the title anytime soon, Sara Pichelli is no longer doing the art full-time (not that she ever really was) but David Marquez is no slouch and picks up the slack nicely. It's unknown what his role will be in "Divided We Fall" but it appears as though he'll be working with The Ultimates.


Spider-Men
Written by Brian Michael Bendis (see above)
Illustrated by Sara Pichelli (Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man)

In a move they swore would never be done, the 616 standard Marvel continuity universe and the Ultimate universe are crossing over. Courtesy of Mysterio, Peter Parker has found himself in a universe where a younger version of himself died protecting the ones he loved. This won't be a series for action or a great deal of plot but rather development of Miles Morales as the new Ultimate Spider-Man and tying up some loose ends with Spider-Man's extended cast resulting from "The Death of Spider-Man".

Kaleidoscope fucked around with this message at Jul 29, 2012 around 08:14

Blind Sally
Jan 9, 2007

Jim's now a Blind Cave Salamander!



I know some people have been feeling some reservations towards these books, but I'm personally really excited/hopeful for the Ultimate Universe at this point. This relaunch appears to be damage control for the continuing crap that was Ultimatum, but it looks to be shaping up to be awesome.

I mean, everything interests me. Not since Ultimates V2 have I been interested in an Ultimates book. (Also, Hickman ignoring Loeb's Thor-backstory and getting back inline with the original one is the best thing ever). Reed as the new "Doom," though set up pretty obviously, has huge potential and is a great idea. For that matter, the whole planet knowing mutants are just genetically alter humans is a rad idea and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes next. I'm even pumped for Ultimate Spider-Man. Sure, I was bummed by his death. It felt like so many story opportunities were lost: Doc Ock becoming more of a mentor figure to Peter, continued adventures of the super-hero half-way house, Peter's Ultimate training, etc. But after Fallout and our introduction to Miles Morales, I have faith that Bendis can keep the comic interesting.

My renewed interest in the UMU is also timely, because the DCU relaunch has really soured me and so now keep up without going completely broke.

Sarah Barracuda
Jun 24, 2007



I've read a number of the earlier Ultimate universe books and thought they were great, but by the time I picked them up, the line had become pretty dire-looking. I only ended up sticking with Ultimate Spider-Man.

I grabbed Ultimates this week and was very pleased. I like Reed's new aesthetic, am interested in seeing what direction Tony's taking, and thought the pacing overall was great. I could almost feel Fury's migraine as it gets progressively worse.

And...they made Jamie Braddock Captain Britain? Is it weird that this is probably one of the biggest reasons I'll be back for more next month?

No need for reality-warping powers or torture or resurrecting dead siblings. I just really really want to see a character like Captain Britain turning into something akin to crazyass Runs-Around-in-His-Undies Jamie.

Even without him though, I'd still continue to buy the book.

invalid user
Nov 15, 2006

Shit's expensive, bro. Plus, fuck Lurdiak.


I really like how Kaleidoscope phrased things about Spencer and X-Men in the OP. He's kind of an unknown and this seems to be the ballsiest stuff he's written (note that I've never read Morning Glories). So it could be terrible, but there's still that chance that this could prove to be his breakout work in Marvel. The plot is ballsy and his willingness to embrace Jimmy Hudson is actually intriguing rather than an immediate turn off.

I'm looking forward to this because it's the Wildcard. We kinda know what to expect from the other 3 comics at this point.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

'sup?


invalid user posted:

I really like how Kaleidoscope phrased things about Spencer and X-Men in the OP. He's kind of an unknown and this seems to be the ballsiest stuff he's written (note that I've never read Morning Glories). So it could be terrible, but there's still that chance that this could prove to be his breakout work in Marvel. The plot is ballsy and his willingness to embrace Jimmy Hudson is actually intriguing rather than an immediate turn off.

I'm looking forward to this because it's the Wildcard. We kinda know what to expect from the other 3 comics at this point.

As much as I love Wolverine, seeing Jimmy front and center of that X-Men issue made me groan. Still, I'm willing to check it out.

Kaleidoscope
Sep 8, 2007

The Internet makes me dizzy.


I want to remain optimistic about all the books. Partially because I've been a fan of the Ultimate U for awhile and partially because I'm concerned that if this re-launch doesn't pan out Marvel will just can the Ultimate line entirely and reboot the 616 Universe DC style in time for Iron Man 3 or something.

If anyone really wants a crash course in getting caught up all you really need is the Fallout books. They do a great job of setting up what is the new status quo. I would still recommend The Death of Spider-Man series though. Doomsday is pretty meh even if it's events did have fairly big ramifications.

And yeah after reading The Ultimates #1 I would highly recommend it to anybody. Very good pacing, I love Ribic's art and Reed Richards & The Children of Tomorrow are looking like an interesting plotline. Really pumped for the the new direction this series is taking.

Deadpool
Apr 28, 2002

"It's a fourth wall thing."



Kaleidoscope posted:

and reboot the 616 Universe DC style in time for Iron Man 3 or something.

This will almost certainly never happen.

TheJoker138
Jan 1, 2008

The Clown Prince
of Crime


Deadpool posted:

This will almost certainly never happen.

I would have said the same thing about DC 6 months ago. Then again, the people running Marvel don't appear to be a group of drooling retards like those running DC.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

TheJoker138 posted:

I would have said the same thing about DC 6 months ago. Then again, the people running Marvel don't appear to be a group of drooling retards like those running DC.
They'd have to be incompetent to do so, Marvel's never felt the need to reboot their continuity and DC's done it a half dozen times, but for some reason people can still enjoy Marvel comics without having to worry about how Reed and Ben Grimm fought in WWII or how Tony Stark fought in Vietnam.

TheJoker138
Jan 1, 2008

The Clown Prince
of Crime


DynamicSloth posted:

They'd have to be incompetent to do so, Marvel's never felt the need to reboot their continuity and DC's done it a half dozen times, but for some reason people can still enjoy Marvel comics without having to worry about how Reed and Ben Grimm fought in WWII or how Tony Stark fought in Vietnam.

Well Marvel has sliding time, which DC can't seem to figure out. So now Tony fought in Desert Storm instead of Vietnam, and such. Except the Punisher. He still ages, but just gets de-aged by turning into an angel with a magic trenchcoat, or a frankenstein monster, every now and then.

Micgael
Aug 8, 2007

"Gimme a kiss."

Have they explained how if Peter Parker was a Reed Richards caliber scientist who invented webbing Miles Morales is swinging around on the cover? Organic webs?

Kaleidoscope
Sep 8, 2007

The Internet makes me dizzy.


Micgael posted:

Have they explained how if Peter Parker was a Reed Richards caliber scientist who invented webbing Miles Morales is swinging around on the cover? Organic webs?

They've explained almost nothing about Miles so far and it would seem like even he doesn't fully understand the range of his powers yet.

Jetfire
Apr 29, 2008


"Personally I'm thrilled to piss off Glenn Beck." - Axel Alonso

muscles like this?
Jan 17, 2005

BOGGLE?



Micgael posted:

Have they explained how if Peter Parker was a Reed Richards caliber scientist who invented webbing Miles Morales is swinging around on the cover? Organic webs?

Peter didn't technically invent the webbing, he just finished a formula that his father created.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



Maybe this is more appropriate for the old thread? I was kicking around a comic shop earlier today and found a bunch of issues of Ultimate Spider-Man. Now I have never read any of the Ultimate comics and Spider-Man has always been one of my favourites so I took a look and the release dates were from 2010.

Sooooo was there an Ultimate reboot a couple years ago, or a Volume 2 put out that I never heard about because I don't read a lot of comics?

Not that this matters a ton since Pete's dead

anticake
Nov 5, 2004



Yeah they rebranded the Ultimate line from Ultimate <Insert Title> to Ultimate Comics: <Insert Title>. You probably would not find low numbered back issues of the original series in someones back issue boxes. At least a couple years ago the first few issues were going for some change.

Micgael
Aug 8, 2007

"Gimme a kiss."

I found the trades I bought in high school in a drawer the other day and was pretty happy. Then I reread the first trade and two of the pages had become unbound. Cruelest fate.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


I read Ultimate SpiderMan in trades (I have all of them so far) and I really enjoy the series.

I hope it stays as good with the new Spidey.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003

He's AWESOME!


Aces High posted:

Not that this matters a ton since Pete's dead
It actually matters a lot because they are still good stories.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



Endless Mike posted:

It actually matters a lot because they are still good stories.

I'm not saying they weren't the few that they had there I really liked. I think in 15 minutes I read issues 8-12 and thought "I haven't had this much fun reading Spider-Man since I was 8" mainly because back then I didn't know a lot about continuity and the fact that there are SO many crossovers now I'd have to spend a fortune to read the whole drat 616 series.

Why I said it doesn't matter is because that now that Pete's dead there won't be any more stories about the guy I grew up loving to read about, although I'm sure Myles will do just peachy in Pete's shoes

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003

He's AWESOME!


Aces High posted:

Why I said it doesn't matter is because that now that Pete's dead there won't be any more stories about the guy I grew up loving to read about, although I'm sure Myles will do just peachy in Pete's shoes
I was going to comment on how there's lots of books that at least include Peter if not outright starring him, but then I realized that you just might be young enough that you grew up on Ultimate Spider-Man.

Bitchin Kitchen
Jun 2, 2006
Capital!

23 years old here and Ultimate Spider-man was my first Spidey book. Ultimate Fantastic Four is the only Fantastic Four as far as I'm concerned.

Deadpool
Apr 28, 2002

"It's a fourth wall thing."



Bitchin Kitchen posted:

23 years old here and Ultimate Spider-man was my first Spidey book. Ultimate Fantastic Four is the only Fantastic Four as far as I'm concerned.

You're missing out on the 616 FF which has been quite great. You should read all of Hickman's run on it. Waid and Millar too. And I normally don't recommend reading anything by Millar.

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.


Bitchin Kitchen posted:

23 years old here and Ultimate Spider-man was my first Spidey book. Ultimate Fantastic Four is the only Fantastic Four as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for making me feel even older than usual.

Edit: I'm sure it won't help, but this is a good explanation of why Fantastic Four #50 really was Awesome: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/...natomy-classic/

prefect fucked around with this message at Aug 28, 2011 around 23:20

Kaleidoscope
Sep 8, 2007

The Internet makes me dizzy.


Seriously. Hickman's FF is one of the best Marvel books running right now IMO. Really looking forward to seeing where he's going.

I enjoyed Ultimate Fantastic Four but that was mostly only because of Reed. I loved his obsessive nature and the way people around him would react. I hope he lives up to the potential as a big tier threat to the Ultimates. Early previews indicate he makes the Asgardians mortal which I suppose is pretty significant act. I never really cared for suicidal Ben and now that Johnny is appears to be with the X-Men I could really care less what happens to Sue & Ben.

TheJoker138
Jan 1, 2008

The Clown Prince
of Crime


Kaleidoscope posted:

Seriously. Hickman's FF is one of the best Marvel books running right now IMO. Really looking forward to seeing where he's going.

I enjoyed Ultimate Fantastic Four but that was mostly only because of Reed. I loved his obsessive nature and the way people around him would react. I hope he lives up to the potential as a big tier threat to the Ultimates. Early previews indicate he makes the Asgardians mortal which I suppose is pretty significant act. I never really cared for suicidal Ben and now that Johnny is appears to be with the X-Men I could really care less what happens to Sue & Ben.

Ben hasn't been suicidal, or even the Thing, since the beginning of Ultimate Enemy. I really want to see what they do with him and Sue now, myself.

muscles like this?
Jan 17, 2005

BOGGLE?



Since we've seen that Gregory Stark was somehow able to replicate Peter's powers (in UA vs NU) I'm wondering if that might have something to do with how Miles got his.

Bitchin Kitchen posted:

23 years old here and Ultimate Spider-man was my first Spidey book. Ultimate Fantastic Four is the only Fantastic Four as far as I'm concerned.

Thirding or whatever the Hickman run on FF. It has some really great bits.

Edit: In further thinking I was wrong on something.

muscles like this? fucked around with this message at Aug 29, 2011 around 01:41

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



Endless Mike posted:

I was going to comment on how there's lots of books that at least include Peter if not outright starring him, but then I realized that you just might be young enough that you grew up on Ultimate Spider-Man.

Never bought a comic in my life actually, I just read at stores mainly. Hence why Amazing Spider-Man was what I grew up reading, because both my brother and my cousins had a lot of the 80s and 90s issues, I didn't get into the series big time until a couple years ago, then I learned how terrible the originals from the 60s were; I mean I've seen webcomics with better writing than some of the originals for Spider-Man and X-Men and the like

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

¿Quién, siendo amado,
es pobre?


Aces High posted:

Never bought a comic in my life actually, I just read at stores mainly. Hence why Amazing Spider-Man was what I grew up reading, because both my brother and my cousins had a lot of the 80s and 90s issues, I didn't get into the series big time until a couple years ago, then I learned how terrible the originals from the 60s were; I mean I've seen webcomics with better writing than some of the originals for Spider-Man and X-Men and the like

This is it. The worst opinion about comics anyone has ever had.

invalid user
Nov 15, 2006

Shit's expensive, bro. Plus, fuck Lurdiak.


Aces High posted:

Never bought a comic in my life actually, I just read at stores mainly. Hence why Amazing Spider-Man was what I grew up reading, because both my brother and my cousins had a lot of the 80s and 90s issues, I didn't get into the series big time until a couple years ago, then I learned how terrible the originals from the 60s were; I mean I've seen webcomics with better writing than some of the originals for Spider-Man and X-Men and the like

Can you elaborate on what precisely was so bad about the originals from the 60s were? Is this a knock on golden age plots in general? The dialogue used back in the day? The vastly different paper and art styles?

TheJoker138
Jan 1, 2008

The Clown Prince
of Crime


I like some of the old 60's stuff (not as much as I like the really early stuff from the 30's), but what kills me is the repetition. A character will say what they're going to do, think what they're going to do, and then it will say it again in the yellow box, and then show them doing it. It seems like they hadn't really gotten the idea of "show, don't tell" down yet.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

and then we'll have pancakes to celebrate and I'll be like EURGNOMEHREUGN.



invalid user posted:

Can you elaborate on what precisely was so bad about the originals from the 60s were? Is this a knock on golden age plots in general? The dialogue used back in the day? The vastly different paper and art styles?

Well it's not so much an issue with the plots, I mean I expect kinda silly plots from comic books and honestly I didn't have any problems up until whenever there was an issue involving a girl in trouble. Betty Brant's brother dies because of Spider-Man, George Stacy dies because of Spider-Man and all the while Pete just goes into retard mode and doesn't try to explain the situation.

What I don't like is that these women are supposedly written as level-headed yet as soon as the poo poo hits the fan they act like the dumbest bimbos ever. It was with Gwen that I hated this the most because she appears the be the most level-headed of any of the characters and I get her freaking out but if Pete really loved her, he'd have realised that he was going to have to tell her eventually that he was Spider-Man.


Now maybe I'm wrong, and this made for good drama back then, but in this day and age it seems like the most terrible cliches thrown in because they wanted to make sure Pete could never win and they wanted to make his life hell. It feels like they couldn't figure out a more creative way to create conflict and drama.

That and like TheJoker said, there was sooo much repetition, it actually got to the point where I would skim whole issues because they wouldn't be saying anything important, just reiterating what was already known and said earlier, and that again smacks of lazy/terrible writing

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.


Aces High posted:

Now maybe I'm wrong, and this made for good drama back then, but in this day and age it seems like the most terrible cliches thrown in because they wanted to make sure Pete could never win and they wanted to make his life hell. It feels like they couldn't figure out a more creative way to create conflict and drama.

If it's a cliche now, it's probably because the Spider-Man character was so unusual and popular when Lee/Ditko/Romita et cetera were doing it.

Kelp Plankton
Aug 5, 2007

My CoX will forever blast giant streams of liquid!



Aces High posted:

Well it's not so much an issue with the plots, I mean I expect kinda silly plots from comic books and honestly I didn't have any problems up until whenever there was an issue involving a girl in trouble. Betty Brant's brother dies because of Spider-Man, George Stacy dies because of Spider-Man and all the while Pete just goes into retard mode and doesn't try to explain the situation.

What I don't like is that these women are supposedly written as level-headed yet as soon as the poo poo hits the fan they act like the dumbest bimbos ever. It was with Gwen that I hated this the most because she appears the be the most level-headed of any of the characters and I get her freaking out but if Pete really loved her, he'd have realised that he was going to have to tell her eventually that he was Spider-Man.


Now maybe I'm wrong, and this made for good drama back then, but in this day and age it seems like the most terrible cliches thrown in because they wanted to make sure Pete could never win and they wanted to make his life hell. It feels like they couldn't figure out a more creative way to create conflict and drama.

That and like TheJoker said, there was sooo much repetition, it actually got to the point where I would skim whole issues because they wouldn't be saying anything important, just reiterating what was already known and said earlier, and that again smacks of lazy/terrible writing

When I was reading through a big archive of the 60s Spiderman comics, I found it helped me to understand them a lot if I read the letters pages. You get more of a sense of exactly what's new about Spiderman(people are actually like "holy poo poo, spiderman is making MISTAKES? he loses fights? this is so new this is amazing") and you can understand that, while it doesn't necessarily hold up today, those earlier issues are all definitely something that was very new and different at the time.

My favorite letter was someone complaining about how JJ was too mean and it was going to keep them from picking up more issues if this guy doesn't straighten up and be nice! How dare he be so mean.

Bulgaroktonos
Aug 24, 2010

by Lowtax


I think it's worth noting that the sixties SM comics--indeed, most of the sixties Marvel line--are better read not only as part of a "Silver Age", but as part of the nascent countercultural zeitgeist. Most Marvel authority figures of the sixties were reactionary assholes--which was revolutionary, I think. Take the two major figures of the DC Silver Age: The Flash and the Green Lantern. Barry Allen more or less works for the pigs, while Hal Jordan is a military test pilot, and is, in effect, a pig of a different sort. Meanwhile, Spider-Man is constantly being chased by the cops, while the military chases the Hulk around the southwest US. They're very much of their time and place.

Straight Outta CompUSA
Sep 29, 2004

THAT'S NOT A BALD SPOT!! that's just where my cat was eating my dandruff

I finally got caught up on Ultimate Spider-Man today in preparation for this relaunch, and I gotta say I'm really torn! Part of me hopes Peter stays dead since the Ultimate universe is supposed to have a lot more of a permanence when that kind of thing happens, but after reading the issues with Aunt May's halfway house I really don't want that to be over. I was huge into Ultimate stuff a few years back but they lost me when Jeph Loeb decided to poo poo all over the whole line. Now I wish I had stayed on with Ultimate Spider-Man at least. It seems there's a pretty good precedent to bring him back, he's got the same formula as Osborne right and he's come back from the dead so many times. Also they never resolved the fact that Peter had like Symbiote junk in his blood way back in the Symbiote Wars arc did they? Symbiotes are pretty unkillable maybe that's how he'll be back?

That said I am really excited to see what Bendis does with Miles too, especially considering that so much of the later USM stuff was about how Parker was too young to be Spider-Man. How is anyone possibly gonna let this 13 year old go at it? Aunt May should take over the Professor X role and start a new school for gifted youngsters or something. I hope there's a lot of supporting cast carry-over in this new run because man that was the thing Bendis had done best, every character was just fantastic.

I haven't bought any comics since Ultimatum and Infinite Crisis totally alienated me and this Ultimate relaunch and the New DCU have me itching to follow something like ten titles if I can afford it.

TheJoker138
Jan 1, 2008

The Clown Prince
of Crime


Anyone else read Ultimate Hawkeye? It would have been better if the first third of the issue wasn't just "Previously, in The Ultimates..." I wonder what the ramifications of the SEAR virus that eliminates the human capacity to activate the X gene is going to be. I wonder if they're going to be dealing with that in Ultimate X-Men at all, mainly, and if so, it makes me really happy that we're going to have a totally cohesive universe going here.

invalid user
Nov 15, 2006

Shit's expensive, bro. Plus, fuck Lurdiak.


Do the baddies in the two Ultimate comics remind anyone of the first bad guys from the initial Authority run?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

Ever have one of those day?

Bulgaroktonos posted:

I think it's worth noting that the sixties SM comics--indeed, most of the sixties Marvel line--are better read not only as part of a "Silver Age", but as part of the nascent countercultural zeitgeist. Most Marvel authority figures of the sixties were reactionary assholes--which was revolutionary, I think. Take the two major figures of the DC Silver Age: The Flash and the Green Lantern. Barry Allen more or less works for the pigs, while Hal Jordan is a military test pilot, and is, in effect, a pig of a different sort. Meanwhile, Spider-Man is constantly being chased by the cops, while the military chases the Hulk around the southwest US. They're very much of their time and place.

That is actually how the hulk got famous. Kirby was doing too many comics and decided to cut back, and decided to stop doing the Hulk wince it was the lowest selling one. A while later there was a poll of the most popular counterculture figures and some how The Hulk got on it also Kirby got a letter from a college dorm and the Hulk was going to be the mascot, so they brought him back.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«91 »