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Mishaco posted:Just curious and not exactly disagreeing with you; but why doesn't the M9 make a particularly good combat pistol? It passed all the indurance trials; in fact it passed the original XM9 trials and the XM10 trials and even passed the retrials which lead to the M92F to M92FS upgrade. Yes it did have a critical fault but that was corrected early on and seems to have done the job. Furthermore, honestly, pistols are not major players on most battlefields today. All of your above points are valid and well taken. I can not dispute the M9's reliability and will say that the 92FS represents a solid pistol all around. Whoever states that the platform is lacking in any way is failing to recognize the solid service record the M9 has built and continues to build. However, the open slide design should be done away with; it might help balance the pistol perhaps and maybe add to reliability (instead of leaving the locking block lugs exposed to environmental elements). Furthermore, and this is not a fault of the 92FS at all, the 124 gr. FMJ NATO loading is perhaps the worst loading for a 9mm service pistol. I love the 92FS. I own one myself. They are accurate firearms. They are also, because of the open slide...very aesthetically pleasing which gives it a few points in my highly unscientific reasoning. As a police pistol, it is an excellent choice. As a combat handgun, it has disadvantages related and unrelated to its mechanical design.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 08:11 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 00:43 |
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Mishaco posted:Just curious and not exactly disagreeing with you; but why doesn't the M9 make a particularly good combat pistol? It passed all the indurance trials; in fact it passed the original XM9 trials and the XM10 trials and even passed the retrials which lead to the M92F to M92FS upgrade. Yes it did have a critical fault but that was corrected early on and seems to have done the job. Furthermore, honestly, pistols are not major players on most battlefields today. Ah this question, it opens up a gigantic can of worms in the military community that almost always develops into retarded arguments about stopping power. The real problem is the M9 has been shoehorned into roles that a PDW like a HK MP7 or FN P90 are more suited for and well it performs in those roles poorly. There is nothing inherently wrong with the M9 design but it is getting a little aged and if it gets replaced then it will take less than 60 days for a litany of complaints from soldiers about how lovely the XM-whatever that replaces the M9 is and how they should have never switched. Basically what happened when the M9 replaced the M1911.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 10:39 |
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Chemystery posted:All of your above points are valid and well taken. I can not dispute the M9's reliability and will say that the 92FS represents a solid pistol all around. Whoever states that the platform is lacking in any way is failing to recognize the solid service record the M9 has built and continues to build. However, the open slide design should be done away with; it might help balance the pistol perhaps and maybe add to reliability (instead of leaving the locking block lugs exposed to environmental elements). The big complaint with the US military is that overhand manipulation of the slide can lead to activation of the safety and/or decocker, which is very undesirable. That and the problems with the M9 slide failures still do happen - albeit uncommonly - and it did not make a good impression. If they can make a DAO version of the 92A1 I think they would have a strong shot at the contract, though, my guess is s&w will take tihs one. What is wrong with 124gr FMJ NATO vs any other possible 9mm load for military use? Expanding ammunition is out, keep in mind.... 124gr NATO is loaded to +P pressures I believe, i think with a muzzle velocity of something like 1200-1250fps? I can't think of a better 9mm load for military use myself. To make it ideal would just involve popping a Speer Gold Dot bullet in there instead of ball but that's not on the table.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 13:12 |
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I can understand about trying to make a pistol fit into a role it was never meant for. Because tehre is no real SMG any longer you go from an M4 carbine all the way down to an M9 pistol. I know what you are saying about the M9 getting a bit aged..after all its 30 years old. That said, in 1941, no one was thinking of replacing the M1911A1. In fact, most of those people who disdain the M9, would prefer to go back to the M1911 which is just crazy. I am sorry, but a stock milspec M1911 just isn't that great today and has several disadvantages. Americans always seem to keep wanting bigger bullets: 5.56mm vs 7.62mm and .45 cal vs 9mm. Hell, when it first came out, 7.62mm NATO was critized for not being as good as .30-06. It would be interesting to know more about how other modern militaries feel about their service sidearms.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 17:50 |
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Mishaco posted:I can understand about trying to make a pistol fit into a role it was never meant for. Because tehre is no real SMG any longer you go from an M4 carbine all the way down to an M9 pistol. I know what you are saying about the M9 getting a bit aged..after all its 30 years old. That said, in 1941, no one was thinking of replacing the M1911A1. In fact, most of those people who disdain the M9, would prefer to go back to the M1911 which is just crazy. I am sorry, but a stock milspec M1911 just isn't that great today and has several disadvantages. Americans always seem to keep wanting bigger bullets: 5.56mm vs 7.62mm and .45 cal vs 9mm. Hell, when it first came out, 7.62mm NATO was critized for not being as good as .30-06. British troops I talked to hated their Powers but loved their P226's.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 18:29 |
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Less bickering and mo' berettas She can manipulate my slide any day   
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 18:58 |
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I joined the Beretta club today  Beretta 92FS   Last image - is the furthest right magazine a knockoff? It doesn't have the Beretta trademark and has a different bolt on the bottom. The only wear on the frame is visible in the second picture: the BE in Beretta and the A in USA are both faded. Also the nighsights are dead but who cares.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 19:38 |
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You didn't say it was a Vertec 
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 20:00 |
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thermobollocks posted:You didn't say it was a Vertec Oh you don't like new school? 
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 20:11 |
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Bigass Moth posted:Oh you don't like new school? 
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 20:21 |
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That third magazine might be a Mec-Gar based off my casual glancing of the baseplate. Mec-Gar's are great magazines and unless its a promag or an eagle magazine, it should be just as reliable as the factory mags.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 20:48 |
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Chemystery posted:That third magazine might be a Mec-Gar based off my casual glancing of the baseplate. Mec-Gar's are great magazines and unless its a promag or an eagle magazine, it should be just as reliable as the factory mags. Thanks. I'm not worried about it or anything, it seats just as well as the others. If it gives me any trouble at the range I'll be sure to note it.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 20:57 |
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Bigass Moth posted:Thanks. I'm not worried about it or anything, it seats just as well as the others. If it gives me any trouble at the range I'll be sure to note it. Look for some M's around the magazine body. Mec-Gars are pretty solid work.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:06 |
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thermobollocks posted:Look for some M's around the magazine body. Mec-Gars are pretty solid work. the markings read "M D S CAL 9 PARA - MADE IN ITALY"
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:21 |
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Mec-Gar mag spotted!
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:22 |
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Bigass Moth posted:I joined the Beretta club today Seconding the "you didn't say it was a Vertec." Also, the lettering may have been filled in by the previous owner; I've never seen a Vertec with the lettering like that. 
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:31 |
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What do you guys have against Vertecs exactly?
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:32 |
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Bigass Moth posted:What do you guys have against Vertecs exactly? You misunderstand. Vertechood is a bonus.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:34 |
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infrared35 posted:You misunderstand. Vertechood is a bonus. Can you explain why? I'm very happy with my purchase and hopefully it feels as good shooting as it does holding.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:35 |
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Bigass Moth posted:Can you explain why? I'm very happy with my purchase and hopefully it feels as good shooting as it does holding. It's got a thinner grip, it's got a light rail, and it's got a swappable front sight.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:41 |
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I know that I just didn't realize it was such a better option. Guess I did get a good deal huh? 
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 22:09 |
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Kommienzuspadt posted:overhand manipulation of the slide E: Actually I've never understood any of the gross motor skill thing behind slide racking. I have fingers long enough to reach up and flick the slide stop on my PX4. Why is trigger manipulation something I am expected to perform under stress, but moving my thumb like a half inch or less is gently caress OH poo poo gently caress? Operating Rod fucked around with this message at Sep 16, 2011 around 22:51 |
| # ? Sep 16, 2011 22:48 |
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Dynamic Economy of  ™
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 23:19 |
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Conservation of Angular Potentiation.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:40 |
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Operating Rod posted:Second retarded question: why would anyone ever rack a slide overhand instead of slingshot? I find it more comfortable/natural to slingshot...maybe I've watched too many action movies or my hands/wrists are just retarded.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:45 |
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iyaayas01 posted:I find it more comfortable/natural to slingshot...maybe I've watched too many action movies or my hands/wrists are just retarded. Same here. I hate doing the overhand thing, especially with a Beretta. 
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:50 |
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Bigass Moth posted:What do you guys have against Vertecs exactly? I just dislike the grip angle.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:08 |
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I've always been a fan of the 92FS, if for no other reason than Riggs and Lethal Weapon viewing during my formative years. I have a (hurr) Taurus PT100 in .40 which has been great but I want a Beretta in 9mm and of the Riggs' era. Is there any particular sub model or designation I should look for or avoid?
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:17 |
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Assuming you get a beretta model that is pre-FS (i.e. fixed slide) such as a 92SB or 92F, the added bonus of it not being the mainstay of 99.99999% of other beretta owners with 92FS will leave you with a unique and simply awesome pistol. As far as the slide flying off and hitting you in the face...I doubt that will happen. Honestly, get whatever you find as a good deal. Want to be special? Hunt down a 92SB or pre FS variant.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:22 |
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Sten Freak posted:I've always been a fan of the 92FS, if for no other reason than Riggs and Lethal Weapon viewing during my formative years. I feel you are obliged to only shot cop killa bullets out of this gun when you get it. I don't think there's anything too complicated about Riggs' gun; I would just look for a straight 92F.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:23 |
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I took my vertec shooting today. Very nice low recoil and good follow up shots. Only negative is that loading the magazine is obnoxiously difficult, by far the hardest mags I've loaded of all the pistols I've fired.
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| # ? Sep 24, 2011 20:58 |
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iyaayas01 posted:I feel you are obliged to only shot cop killa bullets out of this gun when you get it. 
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| # ? Sep 24, 2011 21:01 |
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Bigass Moth posted:I took my vertec shooting today. Very nice low recoil and good follow up shots. Only negative is that loading the magazine is obnoxiously difficult, by far the hardest mags I've loaded of all the pistols I've fired. Let me guess - ten-rounders?
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| # ? Sep 24, 2011 21:30 |
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infrared35 posted:Let me guess - ten-rounders? Yes, the springs must be made of adamantium. Do factory 15 round mags fit flush? Bigass Moth fucked around with this message at Sep 24, 2011 around 23:56 |
| # ? Sep 24, 2011 23:13 |
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Bigass Moth posted:Yes, the springs must be made of adamantium. They look just like the tens when they're in the gun - they're "flush" and they have that same kind of floor plate. The tens are just pinched in at the sides so you can't fit as many rounds in. If you're in a position to (legally) get some fifteens, the best ones are factory mags (of course) or Mec-Gar or MGS magazines. Both of those are identical to the factory mags but are usually a little cheaper. Sometimes places like CDNN will have good deals on used mags. Just don't be tempted by the $7 Eagle mags unless it's strictly a range gun and you're willing to take chances on whether they actually work or not.
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| # ? Sep 25, 2011 01:28 |
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Bigass Moth posted:Yes, the springs must be made of adamantium. I know IR35 will probably tisk at this but here you go, dude. I just snagged some 30 rounders, but the 20 rounders and 18 rounders are also tits. If you live in a 10 rounder only state, ship it in as a rebuild kit
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| # ? Sep 25, 2011 06:15 |
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Chemystery posted:I know IR35 will probably tisk at this but here you go, dude. Those are good mags (Mec-Gar and MGS) and the prices aren't bad. If anything's out of stock there, check with Top Gun Supply. And don't forget to see what CDNN has. And while you're there, check their specials page. Sometimes they'll have free shipping or they'll be throwing in goodies for orders over a certain amount, or they'll give you a magazine pouch for every pair of mags you buy, etc. As a matter of fact, it just so happens that they have free shipping on Internet orders $50 and up, plus Beretta factory 15-rounders are on sale for $17.99 each. infrared35 fucked around with this message at Sep 25, 2011 around 12:10 |
| # ? Sep 25, 2011 12:03 |
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infrared35 posted:They look just like the tens when they're in the gun - they're "flush" and they have that same kind of floor plate. The tens are just pinched in at the sides so you can't fit as many rounds in. If you're in a position to (legally) get some fifteens, the best ones are factory mags (of course) or Mec-Gar or MGS magazines. Both of those are identical to the factory mags but are usually a little cheaper. Sometimes places like CDNN will have good deals on used mags. Just don't be tempted by the $7 Eagle mags unless it's strictly a range gun and you're willing to take chances on whether they actually work or not. Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know.
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| # ? Sep 25, 2011 13:35 |
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Beretta makes factory 17s for 92s now.
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| # ? Sep 25, 2011 13:43 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 00:43 |
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Mad Dragon posted:Beretta makes factory 17s for 92s now.  my wallet is so thin dawg don't tell me these thingsHoly frijoles those 17 rounders are about twice as expensive as the 15s. No thanks 
Bigass Moth fucked around with this message at Sep 25, 2011 around 14:55 |
| # ? Sep 25, 2011 14:10 |
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