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Just picked up the two-volume set of The Book of the Long Sun for $6 at a used book sale in the Princeton Public Library. I'm wondering if I should re-read the Book the New Sun series first before I dive into this? I read the latter about seven years ago and really enjoyed it, but I feel like you need to re-read it to get a better sense of what's really going on. Also I never read The Urth of the New Sun.
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May 18, 2014 12:40
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New Sun is only tangibly related to Long Sun. They don't need to be super fresh in your mind or anything. Not saying you shouldn't reread them, just that they aren't a necessary prerequisite. Urth is entirely skippable, and according to your temperament is either a brilliant coda or sloppy trash that sheds a ugly light on New Sun. Proceed at your own risk.
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May 18, 2014 15:32
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Yeah, you could really read The Long Sun without ever having read The New Sun. The New Sun is more directly related to The Short Sun, which follows on from The Long Sun (I actually enjoyed The Short Sun more than The Long Sun, although I like both).
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May 18, 2014 15:42
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I wish the cover art for The Short Sun series wasn't so terrible, I'm really vain with my books  The covers make it look like some cheap generic fantasy.With the exception of the New Sun (which I've now read three times I think), I usually read Wolfe in the summer. Maybe it's the way time feels to slow down in the heat. Last year I read the Long Sun, Fifth Head and assorted short stories; then Latro before that. I think this year I'll just have to get over myself and pick up the Short Sun.
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May 19, 2014 12:02
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otterley posted:I wish the cover art for The Short Sun series wasn't so terrible, I'm really vain with my books Long Sun in particular really benefits from being read in summer while New Sun was great autumn-winter reading. If you aren't reading things in the appropriate climate, you're doing it wrong.
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May 19, 2014 16:24
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So why did some people suggest that Green and Blue are...err, actually Severian's Urth? Horn-Silk can only go to see Severian once he's been there with the sleeper who took him the first time. If Urth=Blue, how come that was necessary? Is the dream travel temporal-space travel as well? How does that fit into the technology we know about from the New Sun? I'm really curious about this point.
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May 19, 2014 20:16
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Barto posted:So why did some people suggest that Green and Blue are...err, actually Severian's Urth? This theory is disfavoured amongst the fandom, to my recollection. I'm sure there's some long post on the Urth mailing list setting out explicitly why, but I can't remember any specifics. Beyond sane knolls posted:Long Sun in particular really benefits from being read in summer while New Sun was great autumn-winter reading. If you aren't reading things in the appropriate climate, you're doing it wrong. This is really dumb.
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May 19, 2014 20:54
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I live in Florida so I can't read New Sun until I move to a colder climate
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May 19, 2014 21:01
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The Urth mailing list is full of crackpot theories and spurious reasoning. It's a shame really. It could have been such a good resource.
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May 19, 2014 23:09
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Bear Sleuth posted:The Urth mailing list is full of crackpot theories and spurious reasoning. It's a shame really. It could have been such a good resource. Has anyone read stuff like Solar Labyrinth - analyses of The Book of the New Sun?
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May 19, 2014 23:49
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Ugh, Home Fires is really, really bad. Picked it up from the library and I'm 75 pages in...no reason to go on.
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May 24, 2014 12:38
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sebmojo posted:Yeah, I know it's probably a minority opinion. But I find that past a certain date Wolfe books became largely devoted to people telling each other the plot and I find that super dull. I only find the splendid baroque ambiguity that I like in the earlier ones. That's it in a nutshell. Home Fires is constructed largely with dialogue - terribly written, cringe-worthy dialogue. And the plot is just not interesting.
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May 24, 2014 12:41
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Argali posted:Has anyone read stuff like Solar Labyrinth - analyses of The Book of the New Sun? As far as book based analyses the only thing I have picked up was a copy of "Lexicon Urthus". Nice to be able to use it as reference material if I forget anything.
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May 25, 2014 12:02
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There's a lengthy interview with Wolfe here: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/529431/a-qa-with-gene-wolfe/#comments Looks like the old guy is on his way out. 
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Jul 31, 2014 09:08
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Neurosis posted:There's a lengthy interview with Wolfe here: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/529431/a-qa-with-gene-wolfe/#comments gently caress...  Considering how dedicated he's always been to Rosemary it is a bit of a shock that he's lived this long without her. Still, as sad as I am to see him going I'm also glad that he gets to return to the woman he cares so much for. It is going to be a colder, simpler world with both Wolfe and Pratchett on their way out. I've been reading both of them for most of my life and I just can't imagine not having any more of their work to look forward to.
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Jul 31, 2014 10:21
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Neurosis posted:There's a lengthy interview with Wolfe here: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/529431/a-qa-with-gene-wolfe/#comments That was a bummer of an interview. I found particularly sad the part where he says he cant read for more than 15 minutes cause his eyesight is so bad...
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Aug 1, 2014 02:27
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One of Wolfe's lesser known works: According to eBay anyway.
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Sep 14, 2014 14:47
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I'm glad I found this thread; I've read a few Gene Wolfe books recently, but don't really have anybody to talk about them with. I read "Free Live Free" not so long ago, and once I got to the end, felt like re-reading it right away. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing; I got the point of what happens to the four main characters, how they are given what they truly want, but it turns out to be (mostly) non-satisfying, and so at the end they get what they want after - a chance for a do-over. It's just that I didn't really get the wanna-be film noir detective and the horny novelty salesman until after they get what they want; they were opaque to me as characters, and I want to see if the whole thing becomes clearer now that I have this insight. Also: I finished book of the Long Sun recently. Quick question: is the link between the long sun and new sun the fact that *Typhon*, stand-in for Satan, is who constructed the Whorl in the first place? If so, having the tempter of
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Oct 20, 2014 02:18
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm glad I found this thread; I've read a few Gene Wolfe books recently, but don't really have anybody to talk about them with. Read the Short Sun. It is better than the Long Sun and makes the connection more explicit.
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Oct 20, 2014 06:30
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm glad I found this thread; I've read a few Gene Wolfe books recently, but don't really have anybody to talk about them with. Any thoughts on the ending? I remember being quite puzzled by it. quote:Also: I finished book of the Long Sun recently. Quick question: is the link between the long sun and new sun the fact that *Typhon*, stand-in for Satan, is who constructed the Whorl in the first place? If so, having the tempter of I think this is explicit, but just in case yes, Typhon buit the Whorl when the Old Sun suddenly faded, which he mentions in Sword. Why the gods are him and his family... I dunno. Also it's pretty clear that Severian is not Christ.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:44
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House Louse posted:I think this is explicit, but just in case yes, Typhon buit the Whorl when the Old Sun suddenly faded, which he mentions in Sword. Why the gods are him and his family... I dunno. Also it's pretty clear that Severian is not Christ. iirc the gods are him and his family because he basically uploaded their consciousness into the spaceship and gave them admin access. It also sounds like he was kind of big on being worshipped as a god back in the book of the new sun
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Oct 20, 2014 15:34
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Severian is certainly Christ-like. I'm having trouble seeing Typhon as a pure stand in for Satan. He's a tyrant and meglomaniac for sure, but otherwise???
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Oct 20, 2014 15:49
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I'm writing a total modification of Angband based on a combination of the Solar Cycle and Soldier of the Mist series.
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Oct 20, 2014 15:50
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Bear Sleuth posted:Severian is certainly Christ-like. I'm having trouble seeing Typhon as a pure stand in for Satan. He's a tyrant and meglomaniac for sure, but otherwise??? The Typhon as Satan allegory is to Satan's temptations of Christ in the New Testament. On top of the giant "mountains" Typhon offers Severian control over Nessus and all its territories so long as Severian swears fealty to him. Severian responds by literally casting him down. This is essentially Christ's last temptation where Satan takes him to the top of a mountain and offers all of the world's kingdoms if Christ worships Satan. I don't recall Typhon having any connection to the Megatherians though.
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Oct 20, 2014 17:39
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e:fbBear Sleuth posted:Severian is certainly Christ-like. I'm having trouble seeing Typhon as a pure stand in for Satan. He's a tyrant and meglomaniac for sure, but otherwise??? Well, when Typhon and Severian meet, the thing is note for note like when Satan temps Christ in the desert, save for when Severian kills Typhon by snapping the neck of the creature Typhon's head is usurping. But maybe Christ was a unreliable narrator, too The Christian allegory becomes very thick when in the Urth of the New Sun. Severian becomes literally the redeemer of humankind, passing the tests the angelic alien extra-dimensional god-race sets. Once this race is satisfied humanity is over its brutal and cruel ways, the Alien race sends a white hole to earth; nullifying the Black hole problem the sun had to stifle the growth of the human race. Of course, this change is the apocalypse in the proper Christian sense. Y'all may be familiar with the Apocalypse as the end of all things, or some sort of crazy bullshit rapture scenario. Apparently, properly speaking, the Apocalypse is when Christ returns to earth and imposes a fundamental new order to things, making the world just. Of course, you gotta tear down a temple if you want to build a new one, and Severian's world as he knows it is completely destroyed by the shift in gravity when the White Hole arrives, as are (nearly) all the people in it. House Louse posted:Any thoughts on the ending? I remember being quite puzzled by it. I actually didn't have any problems with the ending; thematically I felt it all went together. I think it also helped that at some point I figured out time travel was on the table, as I remember the scene when they fly in the B-17 as confirming my suspicions. The fact that the four main characters realize they were wrong in the end, and got what they wanted from the old man at the very end - a second chance - put the four main characters back in time to the start of the book stronger and better than they were before. I apologize if that does not make much sense. It's been a while, and I just donated blood (now there is an excuse--)
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Oct 20, 2014 23:32
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I thought Severian just punched in the face of Typhon's slave. In retrospect, I always thought that Typhon's suspended animation seemed kinda...ghetto. I mean he had a giant space empire and was able to make a giant world ship, so sewing your head to one of your lackeys seems kind unfitting for a godlike evil emperor.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:02
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Levitate posted:iirc the gods are him and his family because he basically uploaded their consciousness into the spaceship and gave them admin access. It also sounds like he was kind of big on being worshipped as a god back in the book of the new sun Yeah, but the question is why, because that's pretty pathetic, isn't it? I'm thinking of Tolkien's comment that Sauron was trying to take over Middle-earth because he was too spiritually stunted to imagine anyone wanting to do anything else. Nebakenezzer posted:I apologize if that does not make much sense. It's been a while, and I just donated blood (now there is an excuse--) It certainly is. What puzzled me was the very last scene where they all get together and the fortune-teller says the group that will change America is now complete. That pretty much came out of nowhere for me. Bear Sleuth posted:Severian is certainly Christ-like. Not really. Although he has some Christ-like aspects his relationship with the figure of Christ is more complex than that. Sometimes he seems like a parody, especially earlier on when he's less moral. Although he does bring the New Sun in the end, any of the Autarchs were able to choose to take the test, the winning condition is just "having a high chance of bringing the New Sun", I think, it's not the end of the world but a new chance for the survivors (and presumably kills indiscriminately), and the gods of the new world are Severian and his court, not the god of the Commonwealth. I think. The Urth of the New Sun was pretty confusing.
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Oct 21, 2014 03:13
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House Louse posted:It certainly is. What puzzled me was the very last scene where they all get together and the fortune-teller says the group that will change America is now complete. That pretty much came out of nowhere for me. I had forgotten about that. Setup for a sequel?
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Oct 21, 2014 03:52
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Does anyone have some sort of summary of events for The Book of the New Sun? I've worked out what I think happens in it but I'd love to confirm my theories.
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Jan 13, 2015 17:09
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I'm not sure there is a "canon" summary to be honest. Interpretation is a big part of it. edit: Hell, people can't agree on when Severian is lying and when he's telling the truth. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 17:17
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Is it bad that every time I see this thread get bumped I get scared that Gene Wolfe died
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Jan 13, 2015 18:43
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anilEhilated posted:edit: Hell, people can't agree on when Severian is lying and when he's telling the truth. I don't think Severian knows it, either.
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Jan 13, 2015 18:46
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systran posted:Is it bad that every time I see this thread get bumped I get scared that Gene Wolfe died I do it too. Also expecting news that Pratchett will die soon too.
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Jan 13, 2015 19:28
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anilEhilated posted:I'm not sure there is a "canon" summary to be honest. Interpretation is a big part of it. This feels like you're overthinking it quite a bit. The book is vague, but it's hardly inscrutable. I'm not finding any simple and comprehensive summaries, Saki. Why not post your conclusions and see if people here agree?
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Jan 14, 2015 03:36
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systran posted:Is it bad that every time I see this thread get bumped I get scared that Gene Wolfe died I saw 6 posts here and thought exactly this.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:00
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Neurosis posted:I saw 6 posts here and thought exactly this. Same here. I met Wolfe at DragonCon last year and he looked pretty rough, even considering his advanced age. That was an awesome panel, though, because he basically trolled an entire room full of people that expected him to talk about his books. Instead we got a brief biography that stopped right as he started selling stories professionally. In retrospect I think that was actually better because the Sun books have been out for a long time and he's probably said everything he can possibly say about them.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:23
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Bear Sleuth posted:This feels like you're overthinking it quite a bit. The book is vague, but it's hardly inscrutable.
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Jan 14, 2015 08:48
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A brief Wolfe profile has gone up in the New Yorker. It's hardly anything familiar with him wouldn't know, but he opens up a little about his wife's Alzheimer's and death in 2013.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:13
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Good article. Only problem I had with it is that Latro is clearly not hallucinating unless you doubt absolutely every entry at which point the story becomes straight up meaningless.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:57
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Neurosis posted:Good article. Only problem I had with it is that Latro is clearly not hallucinating unless you doubt absolutely every entry at which point the story becomes straight up meaningless. Nah, it wouldn't be meaningless. It would just be Hellenic Don Quixote, which is still a ton of fun.
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Apr 25, 2015 20:05
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