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Experto Crede
Aug 19, 2008

Keep on Truckin'


I roasted a chicken today, and have saved the bones and fat (Well, the fat which didn't go into the gravy) for a soup, which I'd want next weekend.

What's my best course of action, should I freeze the bones and fat until next week or make the soup now and freeze that until next week? (I'm assuming for some reason the bones/fat need to be frozen to keep fresh).

Any advice would be appreciated!

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Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


Throw everything in a pot (and water and salt) set the oven at 110c, in goes the pot for 4+ hours, take it out when you're ready, and reduce it down untill it has the taste you want. It's fine to leave it in there overnight if you want (doesn't turn bitter).

No need to freeze the stock if you use it within the next week or so.

Reason for oven: you want a slow simmer, and it is easier to hit that in the oven, just below boiling.

Yehudis Basya
Jul 27, 2006

THE BEST HEADMISTRESS EVER

Happy Hat posted:

Throw everything in a pot (and water and salt) set the oven at 110c, in goes the pot for 4+ hours, take it out when you're ready, and reduce it down untill it has the taste you want. It's fine to leave it in there overnight if you want (doesn't turn bitter).

No need to freeze the stock if you use it within the next week or so.

Reason for oven: you want a slow simmer, and it is easier to hit that in the oven, just below boiling.

Yeah, but don't add salt yet. Add it after you've added the stock to whatever dish you want to ultimately prep, otherwise you run the risk of the stock/final dish being too salty.

You could also save the bones in the freezer, and once you've roasted another chicken (or 2 or 3) make a more concentrated pot of delicious stock from all the accumulated bones.

Wahad
May 19, 2011

And when they shun their humanity, we welcome them here.


Anybody got some suggestions on what to do with dragonfruit? I ate one on its own, but wasn't super impressed with the taste.

Harvey Mantaco
Mar 5, 2007

Someone please help me find my keys =(

Hi, I'm looking around for pulled pork recipes but all the best ones I'm seeing seem to use BBQ. I'm stuck in an apartment without a balcony so that's out of the question. I have a slow cooker and an oven... are there any really good pulled pork recipes you can recommend that use either?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

I usually save the bones in the freezer. It's a bit of a mess so I like to make a huge pot and freeze the extra to use later, so I always use multiple carcasses.

Freezing either the bones or the completed stock won't affect the taste so do whatever you feel like, it won't matter.

RazorBunny
May 23, 2007

Sometimes I feel like this.



Grand Fromage posted:

I usually save the bones in the freezer. It's a bit of a mess so I like to make a huge pot and freeze the extra to use later, so I always use multiple carcasses.

Freezing either the bones or the completed stock won't affect the taste so do whatever you feel like, it won't matter.

The only bad thing is when you forget that you've stockpiled a bunch of bones and then you clean out your freezer and discover something like ten carcasses from five species...

I barely had room for any water in my 10-qt stock pot when I finally threw them all in. That was my first experience with truly gelatinous stock, and I was totally confused by it. Now I know that's what it's supposed to do, thanks to this thread in fact!

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

I wish my freezer was that big.

I once made stock from a combination of duck and chicken bits and it was fantastic, I highly recommend it if you have the opportunity.

RazorBunny
May 23, 2007

Sometimes I feel like this.



Some of these were in my kitchen freezer and some were down in the basement freezer, I think it's a 7 cubic foot model. Normally lots of room, but right now it's full of beef.

That batch included several chickens and Cornish game hens, beef bones, a duck carcass, lamb bones, turkey bones, and a whole picked rabbit carcass. It was really good, but it felt a little weird to be combining so many disparate creatures into the mix.

Not too long ago I finally realized that stock was a good way to not waste stuff that had gotten freezer burned. I had a couple of steaks that I had hastily shoved into sandwich bags and then put in the freezer, intending to come back and wrap them better (and forgot about them), and they were burned all to hell. When I finally got enough beef bones to do a beef stock, I tossed them in.

Thankfully I don't often have to worry about stuff being freezer burned, because I've gotten better at packaging it for freezing, but it's good to know it doesn't have to go in the trash.

Right now I have probably 4-6 t-bone steak bones in the freezer, two chickens carcasses, and a bag of pork rib bones that my family picked clean. If you have access to bones from barbecue I really recommend them in stock, the smoky flavor comes across well and it's great for things like chili.

Terrormisu
Mar 28, 2007

Will you sign my copy?

Harvey Mantaco posted:

Hi, I'm looking around for pulled pork recipes but all the best ones I'm seeing seem to use BBQ. I'm stuck in an apartment without a balcony so that's out of the question. I have a slow cooker and an oven... are there any really good pulled pork recipes you can recommend that use either?

http://www.goonswithspoons.com/Pulled_Pork

it tastes like magic.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Wahad posted:

Anybody got some suggestions on what to do with dragonfruit? I ate one on its own, but wasn't super impressed with the taste.
I don't think there's anything about dragonfruit that a kiwi isn't better at, other than maybe looking cool

Harvey Mantaco
Mar 5, 2007

Someone please help me find my keys =(


I'm on the case!

Going to make this, the GWS slaw recipe and serve them in a thing waffle wrapped into a cone shape.

Wahad
May 19, 2011

And when they shun their humanity, we welcome them here.


Steve Yun posted:

I don't think there's anything about dragonfruit that a kiwi isn't better at, other than maybe looking cool

I thought as much. However, I'm stuck with one (it was a gift) so I'll need to eat it one way or another.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

I made some real mac and cheese tonight, very basic. Bechamel sauce with cream instead of milk, melted in the cheddar, spiced, mixed with the pasta and baked a bit. It's all right but I like the sauce creamier and smooth. When I was a kid my mom would use velveeta to do it, but I'm hoping there's a different method using some sort of actual food instead. Any ideas?

Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at May 21, 2012 around 11:25

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Wahad posted:

I thought as much. However, I'm stuck with one (it was a gift) so I'll need to eat it one way or another.

I like them eaten out of hand with a spoon after its been refrigerated. Even if the taste is watered down the texture is nice

Alternatively, throw it anywhere you'd put a kiwi, like on shaved ice or a pie

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at May 21, 2012 around 12:19

Yehudis Basya
Jul 27, 2006

THE BEST HEADMISTRESS EVER

RazorBunny posted:

The only bad thing is when you forget that you've stockpiled a bunch of bones and then you clean out your freezer and discover something like ten carcasses from five species...

I barely had room for any water in my 10-qt stock pot when I finally threw them all in. That was my first experience with truly gelatinous stock, and I was totally confused by it. Now I know that's what it's supposed to do, thanks to this thread in fact!

How is this a bad thing?

The first time I made a beef stock, it was gelatinous. I thought I had made inedible poison. I even posted in GWS (probably this thread) asking about my "beef jello". I literally had no idea that stock could and should be gelatinous, it just fundamentally never occurred to me.

Truthfully, I've never been able to get a gelatinous poultry stock. Maybe I'm not using enough bones? I'm going to skip the root vegetables next time, freeing up space in the pot for more carcasses.

RazorBunny posted:

That batch included several chickens and Cornish game hens, beef bones, a duck carcass, lamb bones, turkey bones, and a whole picked rabbit carcass. It was really good, but it felt a little weird to be combining so many disparate creatures into the mix.
Good lord, this is part of heaven.

Yehudis Basya fucked around with this message at May 21, 2012 around 13:15

Canuckistan
Jan 14, 2004

I'm the greatest thing since World War III.


How do I get a nice dark rich gravy with a beef stew? Mine always comes out light.

Color and richness has to come from browning the meat, right? My normal method is to coat the beef cubes in flour and brown with oil then deglaze with red wine after the final batch is done. I imagine my problem is that I'm not browning my meat enough.

How do you brown multiple batches of cubes without the previous fond burning? Deglaze after each batch or is there a simpler trick?

For stock I use an instant beef stock from a beef base paste.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

Yehudis Basya posted:

Truthfully, I've never been able to get a gelatinous poultry stock. Maybe I'm not using enough bones? I'm going to skip the root vegetables next time, freeing up space in the pot for more carcasses.

I've only gotten it if I am using three or more chickens at once (my stock pot isn't huge) and reduce it a bit. Chicken stock usually won't turn into jelly, but I find that soup broth does. Probably because it's been reduced more, and I always have pasta and potatoes in it so those help thicken things.

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



Grand Fromage posted:

I made some real mac and cheese tonight, very basic. Bechamel sauce with cream instead of milk, melted in the cheddar, spiced, mixed with the pasta and baked a bit. It's all right but I like the sauce creamier and smooth. When I was a kid my mom would use velveeta to do it, but I'm hoping there's a different method using some sort of actual food instead. Any ideas?

You can go the modernist cuisine route, which use sodium citrate to keep the sauce emulsified. What you end up doing is dissolving the sodium citrate in a small amount of liquid (the Modernist recipe uses water and beer) then adding in your cheese...much more than you would in a bechamel based sauce. This gives you a sauce that is mostly cheese, and you can even boil without it breaking. You are essentially making processed cheese. But since you get to choose the cheese you start with, it's actually good processed cheese. I think their recipe calls for gouda and cheddar, but you can use whatever works for you.

Their recipe also calls for iota carageenan, but you can make a stabilized cheese sauce without it. My wife likes to make "alfredo sauce," which is basically a cream sauce with parm. Using a little sodium citrate, we were able to get the smoothest sauce she's ever made.

Cavenagh
Oct 9, 2007

Grrrrrrrrr.

Grand Fromage posted:

I made some real mac and cheese tonight, very basic. Bechamel sauce with cream instead of milk, melted in the cheddar, spiced, mixed with the pasta and baked a bit. It's all right but I like the sauce creamier and smooth. When I was a kid my mom would use velveeta to do it, but I'm hoping there's a different method using some sort of actual food instead. Any ideas?

I've been using the Blumenthal version with great success. It's naturally somewhat adapted, as I'm not going to hollow out a cheese to serve it and the cheeses he uses just don't magically appear in my fridge when I want to make one. But the technique works very well, giving me smooth creamy cheese sauce I want in a mac. I also suspect it's possibly healthier then the Bechamel route.

Phummus
Aug 4, 2006

If I get ten spare bucks, it's going for a 30-pack of Schlitz.

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

My wife likes to make "alfredo sauce," which is basically a cream sauce with parm. Using a little sodium citrate, we were able to get the smoothest sauce she's ever made.

What would you guess is the ratio of sodium citrate to cream?

RazorBunny
May 23, 2007

Sometimes I feel like this.



Yehudis Basya posted:

How is this a bad thing?


Not "bad" so much as "inconvenient" because of the aforementioned trouble fitting everything in the stock pot. Plus the fact that it was taking up a huge amount of real estate at the back of my freezer and I didn't realize it.

I've been able to get a decent gel out of chicken carcasses, using 3-4 chickens worth. Are you including the chicken skin in the mix? I also let mine reduce a fair bit - usually I only get about three quarts out of an initial ten quarts of bones and water.

We jokingly referred to the mixed batch as "whole farm stock" and it was pretty awesome. I made the best risotto of my life with that stuff.

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



Phummus posted:

What would you guess is the ratio of sodium citrate to cream?

It's actually the ratio of sodium citrate to cheese that matters, I believe. And I think it's 3%. But when we do the alfredo sauce, I just put in a teaspoon or so.

Phummus
Aug 4, 2006

If I get ten spare bucks, it's going for a 30-pack of Schlitz.

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

It's actually the ratio of sodium citrate to cheese that matters, I believe. And I think it's 3%. But when we do the alfredo sauce, I just put in a teaspoon or so.

I did alfredo this weekend and of course it broke (I let it get too hot).

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

Also this was the first time I've done a bechamel and it was almost like a solid mass when I added the cream. Is it supposed to do that? It could still be poured but it was really really thick, it probably would've made a decent glue. You could swirl the pan around and the sauce would float like a solid mass, kind of reminded me of an omlette.

Doh004
Apr 22, 2007

Mmmmm Donuts...

Too much roux?

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



You should give this stuff a shot. You'll be able to boil the sauce even without ill effects. PF can probably go into detail as to how it works, but it binds with the calcium or something and works its magic. All I know is her sauce used to always be grainy because parm is very difficult to melt smoothly. But a little of this stuff, and it's a whole new game.

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



Grand Fromage posted:

Also this was the first time I've done a bechamel and it was almost like a solid mass when I added the cream. Is it supposed to do that? It could still be poured but it was really really thick, it probably would've made a decent glue. You could swirl the pan around and the sauce would float like a solid mass, kind of reminded me of an omlette.

If you made a roux, you really shouldn't be using cream, just milk. The roux has all the fat you need. I tend to add a little milk and whisk until mostly smooth, then add more. If you add the milk too fast it can be hard to get all the roux incorporated. If you add it too slowly, you end up with a giant gluey blob that looks kind of like mashed potatoes that is really hard to incorporate. With practice you will learn how quickly to add the milk while you're whisking.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

Doh004 posted:

Too much roux?

I dunno, that's why I ask. I used about two tablespoons of butter, equal amount of flour, then added a cup of light cream and it turned into clay. I probably ended up adding another half cup of cream trying to thin it out but it wasn't really getting me anywhere so I just started melting in the cheese.

Going through it in my mind again I think I shouldn't have baked it, it seemed about what I wanted when I mixed it up in the pan before going in the oven. I feel weird putting this much thought into mac and cheese but it's bothering me that I can cook all these complex dishes and something this simple went totally wrong.

And all the precious, expensive cheese I put into it. Oh god.

Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at May 21, 2012 around 14:34

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



One of the problems with that kind of sauce is even if it's smooth in the pan, when you bake it it heats up, boils and breaks.

For a traditional cheese sauce, I would use 1 tbsp each butter and flour per cup of milk. Sounds like you did double that, plus used cream instead of milk.

And seriously, if it is how you want it without baking it, just put crumbs on top and slap it under the broiler for a minute.

Very Strange Things
May 21, 2008


Grand Fromage posted:

I made some real mac and cheese tonight, very basic. Bechamel sauce with cream instead of milk, melted in the cheddar, spiced, mixed with the pasta and baked a bit. It's all right but I like the sauce creamier and smooth. When I was a kid my mom would use velveeta to do it, but I'm hoping there's a different method using some sort of actual food instead. Any ideas?

If your brain shuts off when Flash Gordon Ramsay starts talking about chemicals you can go the dumb-guy route like me and just mount in some cream cheese or other soft cheese at the end. A soft port cheddar might be nice and isn't quite as trashy as velveeta.

Also, last time I made a cheese sauce like that, I actually included the boiling of milk step that I'd always disregarded in the past and it came out MUCH better. I think that's in the Blumenthal link.

It sounds like you're willing to try the "right" way, though. I guess my post is for other slobs like me.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

*RONK, RONK*
Make that three rard-boiled eggs.


Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

You can go the modernist cuisine route, which use sodium citrate to keep the sauce emulsified. What you end up doing is dissolving the sodium citrate in a small amount of liquid (the Modernist recipe uses water and beer) then adding in your cheese...much more than you would in a bechamel based sauce. This gives you a sauce that is mostly cheese, and you can even boil without it breaking. You are essentially making processed cheese. But since you get to choose the cheese you start with, it's actually good processed cheese. I think their recipe calls for gouda and cheddar, but you can use whatever works for you.

Their recipe also calls for iota carageenan, but you can make a stabilized cheese sauce without it. My wife likes to make "alfredo sauce," which is basically a cream sauce with parm. Using a little sodium citrate, we were able to get the smoothest sauce she's ever made.

You can also get an equivalent effect by grating 4 oz of cheese and whisking it with 5 ounces of evaporated milk and half a tablespoon of cornstarch.

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



I tried that once, I think I got the recipe from serious eats. It was ok, but still wasn't as smooth as I thought it should be. It's also a much higher liquid to cheese ratio than the modernist way of doing it.

On the plus side though, most people have corn starch and evaporated milk. It's likely the best way to go if oyu don't want to buy chemicals.

pnumoman
Sep 26, 2008


fatherdog posted:

You can also get an equivalent effect by grating 4 oz of cheese and whisking it with 5 ounces of evaporated milk and half a tablespoon of cornstarch.

It does indeed give an equivalent effect, but I believe that it doesn't support as much cheese intensity as the sodium citrate route. It's good if you just want a very creamy sauce, but if you want an intensely cheesy AND creamy sauce, sodium citrate is the poo poo to use. But I like intensely cheesy sauces; for most people, the evaporated milk and cornstarch route will probably be cheesy enough.

Jay Carney
Mar 23, 2007

If you do that you will die on the toilet.


I do both methods, and don't think the seriouseats evap'd milk way matches the citrate way if you choose to go all the way in making the cheese concoction into american cheese-style slices. It just doesn't set as properly as the citrate, but is good for something like mac and cheese where you are trying to avoid the bake/break conundrum.

WAMPA_STOMPA
Oct 21, 2010


Help me GWS. I remember reading a good-lookin chili recipe in here a long time ago, but I can't find the thread. I think it was a mod challenge thread (the op had a lot of processed/dumb ingredients and refused to listen to advice I think) but I can't find it in either the goldmine or the gas chamber. The problem is I wanted to do the recipe but I only copied down the ingredients list, not the procedure. If it helps, the ingredients are:
brown 2 lbs of lean ground beef (or 1 lb of beef and 1 lb of sausage meat)
2 cans of beans
chop up an onion
chop up a green pepper
28oz can of crushed tomatos
8oz can of tomato sauce
2 tablespoons of chili powder
salt and pepper to taste
hot peppers/chilis to taste

Does anyone know where that thread is, or if not, can anyone break down how I should make the chili? I've never made chili before. I think I just kind of cook the meat in a big pot and gradually add the other ingredients?

Yehudis Basya
Jul 27, 2006

THE BEST HEADMISTRESS EVER

RazorBunny posted:

I've been able to get a decent gel out of chicken carcasses, using 3-4 chickens worth. Are you including the chicken skin in the mix? I also let mine reduce a fair bit - usually I only get about three quarts out of an initial ten quarts of bones and water.

I use the leftover carcass- the bones plus the leftover skin/fat/meat that we don't end up eating. I want your gelatinous stock, though! Should I be doing only bone?

WAMPA_STOMPA posted:

Help me GWS. I remember reading a good-lookin chili recipe in here a long time ago, but I can't find the thread. I think it was a mod challenge thread (the op had a lot of processed/dumb ingredients and refused to listen to advice I think) but I can't find it in either the goldmine or the gas chamber. The problem is I wanted to do the recipe but I only copied down the ingredients list, not the procedure. If it helps, the ingredients are:
brown 2 lbs of lean ground beef (or 1 lb of beef and 1 lb of sausage meat)
2 cans of beans
chop up an onion
chop up a green pepper
28oz can of crushed tomatos
8oz can of tomato sauce
2 tablespoons of chili powder
salt and pepper to taste
hot peppers/chilis to taste

Does anyone know where that thread is, or if not, can anyone break down how I should make the chili? I've never made chili before. I think I just kind of cook the meat in a big pot and gradually add the other ingredients?

There's a chili thread on page 1 or 2 of GWS. And that's a sad chili recipe, with way too much tomato for starters. You're much better off reading the thread and then following a recipe in there or coming up with your own. For the record, I also used to make sad ground beef chili with sad canned crap with sad store bought chile powder creating sad, sad flavor. Get thine rear end to the chili thread!

(And if you insist on using tomato sauce, good lord make your own; any canned crap is going to be overwhelmingly sugary!)

Edit- yup the chili thread is on page 1 of GWS

RazorBunny
May 23, 2007

Sometimes I feel like this.



Yehudis Basya posted:

I use the leftover carcass- the bones plus the leftover skin/fat/meat that we don't end up eating. I want your gelatinous stock, though! Should I be doing only bone?

Oh, no, the skin has lots of good gooey stuff in it to help with gelling. I'm very curious as to why you're not getting gelatinous stock!

I wonder if maybe you should just save up more carcasses, and increase the amount of material you're putting in the pot. Or...Maybe it's a temperature thing? I always let mine come up to just under a boil for most of its simmer time, maybe you're simmering at a lower temperature and the collagen doesn't melt out of the bones or something.

I'm by no means a stock expert, I've just fooled around with it until I got something I liked. Maybe one of the more food-science-savvy goons can step in and offer you some more suggestions.

This reminds me that I need to make stock again soon

I need to take a look at exactly what kinds of bones I got in the big bag from the butcher. Some of them will probably go to make pho or some other beefy thing, but there may be some in there that are suitable for roasting for the marrow.

Lullabee
Oct 24, 2010

Rock a bye bay-bee
In the beehive


I picked up some asparagus this weekend and I want to make it to go with dinner tonight. The recipe I have is just simple olive oil, garlic, basil, S&P and lemon juice, roasted in the oven. Is this the best way to cook them? I just want to make sure. This is the first time I'm cooking them.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

One of the problems with that kind of sauce is even if it's smooth in the pan, when you bake it it heats up, boils and breaks.

Yeah I didn't know about this whole sauce breaking concept, I don't cook much with dairy.

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