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Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


After hours of grinding and general hilarity, I painted my brewstand properly and mounted the gas setup.

Heat resistant paint on the top half of the stand looks like rear end thanks to the giant halogen light illuminating it. Otherwise it looks nice and matte.




It turns out that nearly half a million BTU's of jet burner will ice up a normal propane tank in about 2 minutes
Thankfully,

Tadaa

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Geno Petralli
May 2, 2006


bottling day!!

crazyfish
Sep 19, 2002



Paladine_PSoT posted:

Hello brewers!

I just got my first taste of this, and I love it. I got a Mr. Beer kit from my mother in law for my birthday, and I've been powering through that. I've got my 3rd batch fermenting (blackberry wheat) and my 2nd is carbonating. I'm really looking forward to having a LOT more fun with my new hobby.

Where should I go from here? I know this has to be the ultra newb kit, so I'm trying to plan this so it's afordable and I upgrade properly. I'm thinking I'll look at getting some proper carboys and associated gear and still use the malt extracts for a while? Making my own seems to be way too advanced for me right now.

I guess my question is, has anyone started here, and how did you move up?

A lot of people say that "moving up" means moving to all grain (or at a minimum, partial mash). I don't necessarily agree, at least at first. My first brew was a Belgian tripel which, in retrospect, turned out drinkable but not great. While I'm a little disappointed in that brew, the main thing I learned is that no matter how much you follow a process, there's always something to learn. In my case, I got a metallic taste in my brew as well as more esters (banana-y taste) than I wanted. The former was due to using a brand new aluminum pot as the boil kettle, and the latter was due to a high fermentation temperature. The point is that I was able to figure these things out from remembering what I had done and comparing what I had done to the style. Until you can really taste the end product, it's hard to learn how to move up - it's a constant process, and you'll surely get to where you want to be eventually, but it just takes time.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


mewse posted:

bottling day!!



HOLY GOD, why didn't I ever think of tipping the bucket in the sink.

Geno Petralli
May 2, 2006


Hypnolobster posted:

HOLY GOD, why didn't I ever think of tipping the bucket in the sink.

hahaha, i was looking at your pictures and thinking "drat i'm following up the professional engineer over here with my ghetto setup," i'm glad you got something out of the photo

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

Paladine_PSoT posted:

Hello brewers!

I just got my first taste of this, and I love it. I got a Mr. Beer kit from my mother in law for my birthday, and I've been powering through that. I've got my 3rd batch fermenting (blackberry wheat) and my 2nd is carbonating. I'm really looking forward to having a LOT more fun with my new hobby.

Where should I go from here? I know this has to be the ultra newb kit, so I'm trying to plan this so it's afordable and I upgrade properly. I'm thinking I'll look at getting some proper carboys and associated gear and still use the malt extracts for a while? Making my own seems to be way too advanced for me right now.

I guess my question is, has anyone started here, and how did you move up?

From Mr. Beer, I'd suggest you start with a regular starter kit like those sold by any number of good homebrewing retailers. Northern Brewer gets called out a lot, but for a good reason - they have good stuff, especially in the area of ingredient kits for a poo poo-ton of beers. Other places have good stuff, too, so don't limit yourself unnecessarily.

Alternatively, if you're interested in staying with the Mr. Beer batch size (isn't it like 2.5 gallons?), you can scale recipes (most are for 5 gallons) to that size. I'm not sure what your process has been, but if you're not already, I'd strongly suggest going to a process that includes a boil (I think I remember that the basic Mr. Beer directions are pour everything in the fermenter and let it go). This will help you make better beer in the long run. You can either stay with the Mr. Beer fermenter or use a 3-gallon carboy like a Better Bottle.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



Hypnolobster posted:

After hours of grinding and general hilarity, I painted my brewstand properly and mounted the gas setup.

I am thoroughly jelly, nice work! I am a total DIY retard so if I want a nice brew stand I'm pretty much relegated to giving Blichmann Engineering or MoreBeer or someone my life savings. As much as I love brewing that's pretty far down my life priority list so I deal with lifting lots of hot, heavy poo poo on brew day. Some day...

crazyfish posted:

A lot of people say that "moving up" means moving to all grain (or at a minimum, partial mash). I don't necessarily agree, at least at first.

I actually agree with this, too. All grain is a ton of fun and once you reach a certain level of obsession you just can't stand dumping extract in there and losing that control. But from a pure beer quality standpoint I totally buy into the cold side argument. Put money into fermentation temp control before anything else and your partial-boil extract beer will be way better than the dude that's brewing all-grain and fermenting at 80 degrees. I also found starters to be a BIG help for me but YMMV on that depending on what you brew and how fresh your yeast is.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004


I'm mostly all-grain now, but sometimes I do extract when I only want to spend 2 hours brewing and not having to clean anything but a pot. Those beers turn out just as good (if not better) than my all-grain tries. In fact, my Cascade pale ale might be my best beer ever and that took me about 90 minutes from turning the faucet on to pitching my yeast due to a 20 minute boil.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


Docjowles posted:

I am thoroughly jelly, nice work! I am a total DIY retard so if I want a nice brew stand I'm pretty much relegated to giving Blichmann Engineering or MoreBeer or someone my life savings. As much as I love brewing that's pretty far down my life priority list so I deal with lifting lots of hot, heavy poo poo on brew day. Some day...


I actually agree with this, too. All grain is a ton of fun and once you reach a certain level of obsession you just can't stand dumping extract in there and losing that control. But from a pure beer quality standpoint I totally buy into the cold side argument. Put money into fermentation temp control before anything else and your partial-boil extract beer will be way better than the dude that's brewing all-grain and fermenting at 80 degrees. I also found starters to be a BIG help for me but YMMV on that depending on what you brew and how fresh your yeast is.

The really awesome way to go is to find a homebrewer who has built a stand or two and have him build you one. Hell, I'm thinking of getting more steel and building a new stand and selling this one, purely because I've got a lot more ideas on ways to improve it and then I can sell the old one for $150 bucks and completely recoup my costs.

Also, with that stand I still go and throw one pot on it and do no-chill extract batches and I LOVE doing it.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004


$150? For that? Where do you live?

James Bont
Apr 20, 2007
do you expect me to talk?

So I guess I'm doing a citra pale esb or something? Hopville's beer calculator thing says it qualifies as esb but is just 1 ibu over an american pale ale so whatever. I saw sorachi ace and pacific jade and was really thinking about using those, but one pack of citra pellets left so I said gently caress it. Keeping things really simple so I can get to know my ingredients. Recipe for my little 2.5 (or slightly over) batch is now:

5 lbs marris otter
.25 lbs crystal 15
Thames Valley yeast
2 oz. citra hops, 12.3% AA

That's it. For the hop schedule I'm thinking something like

.25 oz at 60
.25 at 30
.25 at 45
.5 at flameout
dry hop with remaining .75 for a week after primary fermentation

I'm going for a good balance of bitterness and lots of fun aromatics since the aroma and stuff is one of the best things about citra, so does 46 IBU's sound alright? That 1 IBU pushes it in to official esb territory, so it looks like there's gonna be a few ESB's coming in the thread haha. I know citra is totally atypical of an "esb" but I don't really care about staying true to style, I just want to make good beer dammit. But since I'm using citra I'm thinking about dialing back on the maltiness just a little more than I'd originally planned on so the hops can shine a little more, maybe mashing at about 148-150 for an hour or so. Does that sound good? Also, how much water would I start with if I plan on batch sparging? I know generally it's around 1 1/4 quarts per pound of grain, so do I divide it up a little bit? maybe a little less than a quart for the main mash and then rinse with the remaining water I need over another 1-2 additions? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Oh and about the false bottom no luck with a 9 inch at the homebrew shop. I'm gonna try this "brew in a bag" deal, for my small batches it seems like it'll actually work alright. Rather than using it like an oversized teabag, I can just have it line my cooler mash tun for all sorts of filtery goodness. It hangs out the top and I can still screw on the lid with the bag hanging out. And for $5 even if it doesn't work alright, then it's not a big deal. Got some extra malt extract hanging around in case this goes horribly wrong, but I think it'll be alright.

Also the homebrew shop is one of the best places to get stranded thanks to a lovely ignition. Free beer a guy came in with a (light) brown ale made with 2-row, pale chocolate malt, and biscuit, forgot the yeast and hops used though. It was nice, may have to try something with pale chocolate some time soon.

James Bont fucked around with this message at Sep 26, 2011 around 08:23

Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

I've been madly doing some research across various forums recently but I thought I'd get someone's expert analysis from this thread as well. I did something dumb last night and primed my beer, only to discover I'd left the capper at my parents house and I wasn't gonna drive 2 hours both ways to get it. The beer had been in primary for 1 week at this point. Is there any reason at all that I can't just let it sit for another week, let the yeast act on the sugar (so I'll probably get a little higher ABV, ok sure) and then re-prime it and bottle next Sunday? My roommate probably thinks I should drive down today and get the bottler, but I'd probably have overcarbonation problems if I tried again within the next few days, yeah?

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

indigi posted:

$150? For that? Where do you live?

I sense a bidding war just among the denizens of this thread.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004


big business sloth posted:

Yeah. Let it go for another week then hit it again. It'll be perfectly fine.

Jo3sh posted:

I sense a bidding war just among the denizens of this thread.

gently caress yeah. He could quadruple that price and you'd still save about 200 bucks off any comparable stand I've ever seen. There's no way I'd only pay $150 for it even if that's what he was asking for.

indigi fucked around with this message at Sep 26, 2011 around 16:51

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

indigi posted:

gently caress yeah. He could quadruple that price and you'd still save about 200 bucks off any comparable stand I've ever seen. There's no way I'd only pay $150 for it even if that's what he was asking for.

Agreed. Hypno, if you do decide to sell this stand, the bare minimum you should ask is not just to recoup costs on this one but to pay for the next one as well. I'm confident you'd have takers even at that - assuming any of us live close enough to you to make getting the thing at all reasonable.

nesbit37
Dec 12, 2003
Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

My first honey crop came in a couple weeks ago and I want to use a gallon of this liquid gold to experiment with braggot. I am thinking of making 5, 1 gallon batches with a different ratio of honey:malt based sugars. I haven't done a split batch like this before, but figured I would just make a ~2.5 gallon batch of wort and a ~2.5 gallon batch of must and mix in the gallon jugs.

Does anyone have recommendations on a base beer that would work well for this? My main goal is just to evaluate how honey and malt interact with each other on a general level. I don't really want to introduce too many other flavors with this experiment. I will save that for next spring when I am hopefully able to harvest more honey.

Tedronai66
Aug 24, 2006
Better to Reign in Hell...

Hypnolobster posted:

HOLY GOD, why didn't I ever think of tipping the bucket in the sink.

^ Left me thinking the exact same thing.

Also, I'd buy the poo poo out of a brewstand for the right price. I just need to make friends with some welders.

Prefect Six
Mar 27, 2009



indigi posted:

$150? For that? Where do you live?

$150.01

No, seriously, where do you live.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


indigi posted:

$150? For that? Where do you live?

Haha, NE Ohio.

I'd be selling it around the end of next summer, and probably for a bit more than $150 after I've done the windshields. My pump shields are going to be sealed top and front with air intake on the bottom so that the pump heads can be sprayed down to get hot sticky wort off of them and I'll sell those separately as I want to remake those in stainless as well.

I've got a lot of hours into it, but the steel as it sits was only about $80. It's good practice for me. Hell, I might just get more mild steel and build a copy of it and sell it.


Maybe I should sell it for more than $150

Darth Goku Jr
Oct 19, 2004

yes yes i see, i understand


Hypnolobster posted:

Haha, NE Ohio.

I'd be selling it around the end of next summer, and probably for a bit more than $150 after I've done the windshields. My pump shields are going to be sealed top and front with air intake on the bottom so that the pump heads can be sprayed down to get hot sticky wort off of them and I'll sell those separately as I want to remake those in stainless as well.

I've got a lot of hours into it, but the steel as it sits was only about $80. It's good practice for me. Hell, I might just get more mild steel and build a copy of it and sell it.


Maybe I should sell it for more than $150

Wait, are you in LMHBA? S.N.O.B.S.? To think we might've met...

Which is to say hell yes I'm in good shape to negotiate for a cheep brew stand.

Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

indigi posted:

Yeah. Let it go for another week then hit it again. It'll be perfectly fine.

Ok cool. My roommate was thinking the yeast would die without adequate sugar for another week or something, but that didn't sound right.

plester1
Jul 9, 2004

I am NOT a merry man!

big business sloth posted:

Ok cool. My roommate was thinking the yeast would die without adequate sugar for another week or something, but that didn't sound right.

They don't die, they just go dormant. They will wake right back up again once you hit them with some more priming sugar.

It's actually pretty tough to kill yeast by accident, you have to specifically hit them with stuff like freezing or sulfites or bleach to get them.

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004


big business sloth posted:

Ok cool. My roommate was thinking the yeast would die without adequate sugar for another week or something, but that didn't sound right.

Nope.

Also you should be leaving virtually all your brews in primary for AT LEAST 2 weeks. There are very few brews that are ready to be taken off the yeast in just one week.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


Darth Goku Jr posted:

Wait, are you in LMHBA? S.N.O.B.S.? To think we might've met...

Which is to say hell yes I'm in good shape to negotiate for a cheep brew stand.

I keep meaning to join SNOBS, LMHBA and SAAZ but I constantly forget to do it. For being so obsessed with homebrewing, I'm not really active in the community. I need to start because I'd absolutely love to build some giant burner stands and get something exciting going like 55 gallon club batches to fill barrels and fun things like that.

Darth Goku Jr
Oct 19, 2004

yes yes i see, i understand


Hypnolobster posted:

I keep meaning to join SNOBS, LMHBA and SAAZ but I constantly forget to do it. For being so obsessed with homebrewing, I'm not really active in the community. I need to start because I'd absolutely love to build some giant burner stands and get something exciting going like 55 gallon club batches to fill barrels and fun things like that.

I just joined LMHBA about three months ago, they're fairly young as an organization so a club barrel-aged beer is still a bit unrealistic, but I know SNOBS do some of that awesome goofy stuff. Alas, I'm an east-sider.

LMHBA's next meeting is Oct 15th. I'm just saying.

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

I've always been curious how non-alcoholic beers are "brewed". Obviously there has to be some malt and some hops, but do they boil them, carbonate, and bottle immediately? Do they let them cool down and then sulfite them before carbonation? It seems pretty obvious they can't have any yeast in them or they'd explode on the shelf after creating some alcohol.

Also, I'm totally going to make a non-alcoholic beer and market it to the Arabic world. And there's only one thing such a beer could be called: Ab'Douls. It could be served with salaami.

silver97232
Apr 30, 2004
I dare you, I double dare you, say "what" one more time

tesilential posted:

Nope.

Also you should be leaving virtually all your brews in primary for AT LEAST 2 weeks. There are very few brews that are ready to be taken off the yeast in just one week.

You know I've found this to be more a homebrewer thing than a universal beer thing. If you're brewing a normal gravity ale around 1.050 with an english or american strain it should be package ready in 10 days. It will have reached terminal gravity in 3-4 days, then raise the temperature up about 5 degrees for 3 days to condition, lower to 32 for 2 days so it drops bright and you're done.

My normal fermentation schedule is 68* for 3 days 72* for 3 days then chilled to 32 for 1 or 2 days.

That being said, having a metered amount of oxygen injected, proper pitching rates, and accurate temperature control are imperative. If you don't have those things down then it's going to take longer or be less predictable.

TenjouUtena
Mar 31, 2011



ItalicSquirrels posted:

I've always been curious how non-alcoholic beers are "brewed". Obviously there has to be some malt and some hops, but do they boil them, carbonate, and bottle immediately? Do they let them cool down and then sulfite them before carbonation? It seems pretty obvious they can't have any yeast in them or they'd explode on the shelf after creating some alcohol.



The big boys make normal beer then 'boil' off the Alcohol off (Around 180 degrees) until it qualifies as non alcoholic.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



silver97232 posted:

That being said, having a metered amount of oxygen injected, proper pitching rates, and accurate temperature control are imperative. If you don't have those things down then it's going to take longer or be less predictable.

Yeah this has been my experience too. Once I got into starters and aeration I found most "average gravity" beers didn't need those 1-2 months to start tasting good. But there's no way someone's doing all that on batch #1 so it's safer to just tell them to wait 3 weeks and But you're right, there's no way Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is sitting in primary for a month for example. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it's less than a week.

j3rkstore
Jan 28, 2009

L'esprit d'escalier

Here's some crazy airlock activity for the Imperial IPA (1.093) I brewed on Saturday, fermenting with Wyeast 1056. In the background you can hear the ESB (1.068) fermenting with Wyeast 1275.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekUkp4tK1-o

My last couple beers had an off taste (Diacetyl probably) at the beginning and I think it was because I was lax in the aeration. I made sure to shake the fermentors well this time and I think it's paying off

j3rkstore fucked around with this message at Sep 27, 2011 around 02:43

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004


silver97232 posted:

You know I've found this to be more a homebrewer thing than a universal beer thing. If you're brewing a normal gravity ale around 1.050 with an english or american strain it should be package ready in 10 days. It will have reached terminal gravity in 3-4 days, then raise the temperature up about 5 degrees for 3 days to condition, lower to 32 for 2 days so it drops bright and you're done.

My normal fermentation schedule is 68* for 3 days 72* for 3 days then chilled to 32 for 1 or 2 days.

That being said, having a metered amount of oxygen injected, proper pitching rates, and accurate temperature control are imperative. If you don't have those things down then it's going to take longer or be less predictable.

I agree 100%. I have a couple simple recipes that I can keg in 10 days or less. I was mostly saying it because he seems to be new to brewing, and a big newb mistake is taking the beer off the yeast too early. Hell if he takes a gravity reading at day 4 and it's 1.009 and then at day 7 it's still 1.009, then by all means rack to secondary/bottle/keg/whatever. I doubt that's the case here though.

Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

tesilential posted:

I agree 100%. I have a couple simple recipes that I can keg in 10 days or less. I was mostly saying it because he seems to be new to brewing, and a big newb mistake is taking the beer off the yeast too early. Hell if he takes a gravity reading at day 4 and it's 1.009 and then at day 7 it's still 1.009, then by all means rack to secondary/bottle/keg/whatever. I doubt that's the case here though.

this is the fifth or sixth batch I've done. I keep breaking/losing my hydrometers though so I've been going off "a week or so when I have the time."

This particular recipe is nothing special, just lots of dark malt, nothing sweet, and some more bitter hops that I forget what they are.

Cointelprofessional
Jul 2, 2007
Carrots: Make me an offer.

I have a keezer with 4 kegs, but I have room for a 5th. I currently have a 4-way distributer and want to add a y splitter because its the cheapest way to add an extra line. Is there anything I should worry about?

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


If you put the splitter after your check valves, you're effectively opening a vent from one keg into another. While probably not normally a problem, if one beer got infected, it could lead to the other getting infected. Similarly, if one keg vented itself for some reason, the other would vent as well. Basically, anything that happens to one keg will happen to the other.

Jonked
Feb 15, 2005


TenjouUtena posted:

What was your first batch?
American Amber using Brewer's Best recipe kit, since it was my first beer. On subsequent taste, I think I'm starting to realize that I just really enjoy insanely hoppy, bitter, flavorful beer. Then again, I guess the advantage of homebrewing is that you can create the perfect beer for just you, right?

Kraven Moorhed
Jan 5, 2006

So wrong, yet so right.

Uh oh.

So I'm pretty sure my extract-brew Russian Imperial Stout has stalled out at a gravity of 1.030 for the past 4 days. From an OG of 1.072, that's not exactly what I was looking for. The directions list the FG as between 1.020-1.017. I was hoping to get around 8-9% alcohol out of this, but it looks like it's stuck at a measly 6% give or take. The beer has been at a steady 70 degrees since I transferred it to the fermenting area.

Any idea what could be causing this? Is there anything I could do to correct this, or am I stuck with a weak-rear end stout?

Lrrr
Jan 17, 2010


I fell in love with the hopville brew calculator, and started playing around with what I hope to become a Gonzo Imperial Porter copy. I may be pushing my luck here, but I wanna see how far I can go without any mashing and with a limited boiling volume. Hopefully my fellow goons can point out where I am just being silly and help me improve on the idea before brewday (ETA 10 days)

Here is the plan so far:

Steep special grains at 70C in 9L of water for 30 min:
750g Crystal 120L
300g American Black Patent
150g Dark Chocolate

Remove grains and bring to a boil and add 2kg Light DME and start adding the hops.
25g Warrior (16.7%) for 90 minutes
30g Northern Brewer (12.3%) for 60 minutes
30g Northern Brewer (12.3%) for 30 minutes
50g Cascade (6.3%) for 1 minute

Remove from the heat and add another 2.5kg Light DME, make sure its all dissolved then put my bot in an ice bath to drop the temperature as quickly as possible.

Add the additional water to make it a total of 20 liter, make sure its properly aerated and pitch the yeast. (Possibly White labs California Ale, not too sure about this yet.)

After 14 days transfer to secondary fermenter and add another 50g of the Cascade then bottle after another 14 days.

According to the calculations it should give 85.1 IBU (Tinseth), 9.5 ABV and 68 EBC


Concerns:
Will the residual heat be enough to make sure 2.5kg DME is fully dissolved and sterilized, or should I add it a bit earlier and let it boil for a few minutes? I figure if its not necessary to bring it to a boil again it will also aid in cooling the worth quickly, but I don't wanna risk ruining my brew over it.

Are all those special grains suitable for just steeping? I contemplated adding some smoked malt as well, but the internet told me smoked malt had to be mashed :/

Based on other recipes I came across I should use even more of the Cascade, but I'm contemplating adding some juniper berries instead, but I'm not sure how much to add or how to add it. Is there any juniper berry experts out there?

All feedback is highly appreciated!

Darth Goku Jr
Oct 19, 2004

yes yes i see, i understand


From my understanding, while yes you'll want to mash smoked malt to gain any fermentable sugars out of it, you can still gain the desired smoked character of the grain by including it in the steeping.

clutchpuck
Apr 30, 2004
ro-tard

Lrrr posted:

Will the residual heat be enough to make sure 2.5kg DME is fully dissolved and sterilized, or should I add it a bit earlier and let it boil for a few minutes? I figure if its not necessary to bring it to a boil again it will also aid in cooling the worth quickly, but I don't wanna risk ruining my brew over it.

Are all those special grains suitable for just steeping? I contemplated adding some smoked malt as well, but the internet told me smoked malt had to be mashed :/

Not sure about adding the extract post-boil. In my short partial boil experience, I've gone with pre-boiling and cooling the top-up water while all the extract subsequently gets boiled into a super-concentrated wort, then the two are combined. The cool top-up water helps bring the temp down quickly.

As for your specialty grains, I'd steep them. Thing about steeping is you won't be converting the starch into fermentable sugars, but you will be adding flavor and color to the wort. Assuming you have enough extract going in to reach the OG you need, I wouldn't be super concerned with which flavor malts contain enzyme. Doing it this way runs the risk of some cloudiness, but you can use some irish moss or a whirflock tablet to mitigate it.

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indigi
Jul 20, 2004


Lrrr posted:

Here is the plan so far:

Steep special grains at 70C in 9L of water for 30 min:
750g Crystal 120L
300g American Black Patent
150g Dark Chocolate


You're going to be adding an absolute shitload of unfermentable sugars here. It will probably end up underattenuated and cloyingly sweet. I'd suggest replacing some of the DME with cane sugar added after it's been fermenting for a few days. With high gravity extract brews underattenuation is one of the most common problems.

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