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Or you can avoid Nipton at first, get yourself to Novac and recruit Boone. It's a thing of beauty helping Boone do what he does best. Inculta doesn't even get the chance to open his mouth before Boone shoots his head off! Anyway, finally got around to playing Old World Blues for the first time and I'm in love. My favourite DLC so far. Can't wait to see what Lonesome Road is going to bring.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:06
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Yeah the Nipton fight's pretty simple. Set up the mines you snagged back in Primm, chuck some of the dynamite you should have at that point, and you can usually kill two of them and maim the remainder. Should be pretty easy to just VATS down what's left as they advance on you. If you picked up ED-E, it should be that much easier.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:22
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achillesforever6 posted:Maybe you are a naive believer that your actions will change the gender issues that exist within the Legion. That's all I got. Having a woman's face minted on the money, when previously that honor is reserved for Caesar himself, could be a pretty big deal.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:42
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Whenever I play a female courier I side with NCR just for the giant speech encounter with Lanius where he calls you the Woman of the West. It's a pretty badass title.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:46
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RBA Starblade posted:Whenever I play a female courier I side with NCR just for the giant speech encounter with Lanius where he calls you the Woman of the West. It's a pretty badass title. This. The NCR sad sacks are just so hard to not want to help them. Corporal Betsy just wants to get over her awful encounter with the fiends and get it on with a hot courier. Helping Forlorn Hope. Allowing Chief Hanlon to find peace. And add being the one woman who brings down the Legion. Not that bad a choice. And not following Col. Moores orders to the letter is real satisfaction.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:58
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Well, that's the thing. You spend like 90% of the game getting to know the rank and file NCR grunts, who aren't bad people at all. It's the government and the brass who are the ones really responsible for "gently caress NCR" sentiment, but you don't start meeting those until the end.
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Nov 17, 2013 00:04
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:Yeah the Nipton fight's pretty simple. Set up the mines you snagged back in Primm, chuck some of the dynamite you should have at that point, and you can usually kill two of them and maim the remainder. Should be pretty easy to just VATS down what's left as they advance on you. If you picked up ED-E, it should be that much easier. Or, pretend to be nice to him, then stick a dynamite in Vulpes pants, then proceed to run to cover, trying not to laugh your rear end off while his gets blown up. Explosives are fun 
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Nov 17, 2013 00:04
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rope kid posted:I've never thought of Caesar's or the Legion's activities as "edgy". For their own purposes, they engage in a variety of horrible practices that others have engaged in throughout history. Where there's war / soldiers, there is brutality / rape. Quite right, as Grrrr Martin has pointed out extensively. However, rape camps and that particular level of brutal slavery go beyond the realm of historical atrocities, and into WH40K territory. I don't mind that settings excesses in and of themselves, but they don't mesh well with the New Vegas setting, which (by video game standards) puts a lot of effort into make basic elements seem realistically feasible (Shandification of Fallout etc). I suppose that if we had seen a bit more of Legion controlled territory, things might have been explained better - but I think that the opposite would have taken place, and faced with the necessity of presenting this premise to the player while grounding it in reality, it would have been altered into something more realistic and less brutal. Edit - Main point goes here: You can only make a certain percentage of the population slaves (or treat a certain percentage of the population in a manner that is equivalent to the worst examples of chattel slavery) before they rebel and wipe you out by sheer force of numbers. There is only so much you can do to the females of a conquered population before the same happens (Machiavelli etc) - nevermind the females of your own population and the mothers of your own slave soldiers. It's just absurd in general - video game villainy that is repulsive but is actually unfeasible in any coherent sense if you think about it. (Then again, I'm currently trying not to derail the Last of Us LP from its lovely kudzu plants discussion with "wait, a hundred man strong bandit gang that murders every single traveler they encounter? That's absolutely insane in practical AND ethical terms", so my standards of video game bad guy practicality may be a tad high)
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Nov 17, 2013 00:22
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Xander77 posted:However, rape camps and that particular level of brutal slavery go beyond the realm of historical atrocities, and into WH40K territory. For anyone who's interested, here's some of the more enlightening details from "Zigzag" Marzah's testimony against Taylor at The Hague. In case it's not obvious, this is "not mind safe" for anyone who is sensitive about anything dealing with human life: http://www.charlestaylortrial.org/2...s-with-the-ruf/ http://www.charlestaylortrial.org/2...ne-and-liberia/ quote:Edit - Main point goes here: You can only make a certain percentage of the population slaves (or treat a certain percentage of the population in a manner that is equivalent to the worst examples of chattel slavery) before they rebel and wipe you out by sheer force of numbers. There is only so much you can do to the females of a conquered population before the same happens (Machiavelli etc) - nevermind the females of your own population and the mothers of your own slave soldiers. It's just absurd in general - video game villainy that is repulsive but is actually unfeasible in any coherent sense if you think about it. I think it's conceivable that even in that environment, non-Legionary slaves could unite to try to overthrow Caesar, but I disagree that it's guaranteed success simply through numbers. In Roman Britain, Suetonius Paulinus (the Roman governor) stripped Boudicca of her right to rule the Iceni, had her beaten and her daughters raped for protesting, then took off to wage war in Wales. While he was gone, she and her tribe sacked Londinium, killed tens of thousands, and were subsequently annihilated by the Roman legions when they returned -- despite the Iceni outnumbering Paulinus' forces significantly. I think it's more likely that Legionaries would internally decide to get rid of Caesar (much like the historical Praetorian Guard did on several occasions), but I think this would require a mindset and perspective that is alien to most Legionaries. rope kid fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Nov 17, 2013 |
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Nov 17, 2013 01:25
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But I think the game recognizes that, and we've discussed that. The Legion is not a sustainable society. It breaks down once you remove Caesar because it's the cult of personality that keeps people in-line. Even Caesar knows that, and that's the entire point of the game. He wants to actually build his Rome. He wants to create a true society in Vegas. But you also have to remember the people Caesar is dealing with tribals and/or raider groups. For example, Arcade points out that Latin is just Latin to people like the Followers who've read a book, but it's a magical and culturally specific language to those who have bought into the Legion. I do think it would have been fun to see The Daughters of Hecate recast as women from Legion Territory who formed a raider band and rebelled.
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Nov 17, 2013 01:30
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rope kid posted:I think it's more likely that Legionaries would internally decide to get rid of Caesar (much like the historical Praetorian Guard did on several occasions), but I think this would require a mindset and perspective that is alien to most Legionaries. Do you think there's any scenario, short of the Courier taking over, that sees the Legion surviving in its present form if Caesar dies? The game pretty much establishes that Lanius can't hold it together and I don't really think there's anyone else that can step into that power vacuum.
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Nov 17, 2013 01:32
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Timeless Appeal posted:I do think it would have been fun to see The Daughters of Hecate recast as women from Legion Territory who formed a raider band and rebelled. Absolutely. One of the reasons I enjoyed New Vegas so much was all the Van Buren references, so more of those can only be a good thing.
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Nov 17, 2013 01:36
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I've written this before, but along with not completing our post-game content, the biggest regret I have about F:NV is that the Legion is not more thoroughly-defined and explored. I also think that the rank-and-file Legionaries were written with a much more overtly woman-hating attitude than I envisioned. I pictured their attitude as being much more matter-of-fact (though still horrible), but they talk as though they actively loathe women. Consequently, their reaction to a female Courier would have been more, "Uh... what the heck?" than https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeEyL-hQg_o
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Nov 17, 2013 01:57
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On the subject of post-game content. Were you guys planning to just let the players finish up missions with some changes to the world and dialogue to reflect how things have changed, or were there going to be new post-game only quests?
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Nov 17, 2013 03:28
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Personally I'm glad there was no post-game content and hope any future "New Vegas 2" would go the same way. I've never found the ability to continue playing after the ending to actually add anything to my experience, apart from my enduring memory being "why are dragons still attacking me when I killed their leader, I did all the good quests and all there is left to do is raid dungeons full of enemies I could kill in my sleep to get loot I don't need, this game is boring, guess I'll play something else"
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Nov 17, 2013 03:56
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Timeless Appeal posted:On the subject of post-game content. Were you guys planning to just let the players finish up missions with some changes to the world and dialogue to reflect how things have changed, or were there going to be new post-game only quests? Isn't that latter option not technically post-game? You finish those, then you're in the post-game.
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Nov 17, 2013 03:58
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HitTheTargets posted:Isn't that latter option not technically post-game? You finish those, then you're in the post-game. Not necessarily, in a lot of games you see the ending and the credits roll and then there's new stuff to do regarding the consequences of your actions during the main game. Pokemon in all its various incarnations is the best I can think of this, especially Mystery Dungeon. Sky had a whole nother storyline after the story you'd been dealing with all game got wrapped up.
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Nov 17, 2013 04:00
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God I hate Gamebryo faces.
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Nov 17, 2013 05:52
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2house2fly posted:Personally I'm glad there was no post-game content and hope any future "New Vegas 2" would go the same way. I've never found the ability to continue playing after the ending to actually add anything to my experience, I thought the Dark Sun (1st, pretty sure the 2nd was Win=End) PC game handled it as well as could be done for the time. The slave villages had congratulatory messages for you, a handful of other characters commented, but you could otherwise finish unsolved quests without a YOU WIN, NOW QUIT abrupt end to the game. There was even one buggy quest in DS1 which I could never activate until after defeating the imperial army, so kudos to those developers for that afterthought made complete. An open-play ending wouldn't be too hard for FO:NV in terms of expenses, given the limited number of voice actors and plot-critical characters. But it'd cut back severely on replay value, since you could then experience every single quest during one game. It'd also wreck the Fallout tradition of gameover triggers with special final player ending stories. You could reasonably have the player interact with a one-week-later world, but it'd be unreasonable to program a six-months-later or two-years-later world. That becomes an issue when someone can easily have weeks of wandering and questing left over, depending on how slow or obsessive they are in playing.
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Nov 17, 2013 06:23
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Thoughts on http://thesurvivor2299.com/ ?
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Nov 17, 2013 07:13
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We were talking about it a page or two ago. It seems like it could be legit.
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Nov 17, 2013 07:16
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Was there any mention of the Commonwealth in New Vegas? I don't remember. I wasn't sure if they were even referring to the northeast USA or like Canada/England.
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Nov 17, 2013 08:12
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sweart gliwere posted:I thought the Dark Sun (1st, pretty sure the 2nd was Win=End) PC game handled it as well as could be done for the time. The slave villages had congratulatory messages for you, a handful of other characters commented, but you could otherwise finish unsolved quests without a YOU WIN, NOW QUIT abrupt end to the game. There was even one buggy quest in DS1 which I could never activate until after defeating the imperial army, so kudos to those developers for that afterthought made complete. Fallout 2 did something similar. After destroying the Oil Rig, you could continue exploring and finish up quests that you weren't done with yet. The floating next in New Reno changed to have the NPCs recognize that you kicked the Enclave's rear end, along with a few comments making fun of power armor if you were in it. You could star in a porn flick to celebrate, or you could go to the drunk priest and get a guide to Fallout 2, which gave you a shitload of XP when you used it and would never be consumed when used. Every other place stayed the same, but it was nice to have at least one area recognize you beat the game.
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Nov 17, 2013 08:20
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closeted republican posted:Fallout 2 did something similar. After destroying the Oil Rig, you could continue exploring and finish up quests that you weren't done with yet. The floating next in New Reno changed to have the NPCs recognize that you kicked the Enclave's rear end, along with a few comments making fun of power armor if you were in it. You could star in a porn flick to celebrate, or you could go to the drunk priest and get a guide to Fallout 2, which gave you a shitload of XP when you used it and would never be consumed when used. Every other place stayed the same, but it was nice to have at least one area recognize you beat the game. The best part was the flavor text on the guide, which was something like "Would have been nice to have this at the BEGINNING of the drat game..."
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Nov 17, 2013 08:46
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Korbin posted:Thoughts on http://thesurvivor2299.com/ ? There's been a ton of shuffling content on secondary sources. A tumblr went up (12072299.tumblr.com) that has been posting and removing a bunch of cryptic chatter and audio files. There was a lot more on it earlier, but I think the idea is supposed to be that 'Ella Deux' hacked it and removed most of it or something. There also are two twitter accounts active, @EllaDeux and @12072299. Basically a bunch of coded Fallout terminal chatter and some links to the tumblr. Lots of skepticism to be sure, but a lot of interesting 'information'. It could be fake but there seems to be a lot of time and effort across multiple sources to totally dismiss it. There's also various information compilations on The Vault Fallout Wiki and the dreaded /r/Fallout. Even if all this turns out to be fake, it's a pretty cool little campaign they are running with the rotating content.
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Nov 17, 2013 09:14
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graynull posted:There's been a ton of shuffling content on secondary sources. A tumblr went up (12072299.tumblr.com) that has been posting and removing a bunch of cryptic chatter and audio files. There was a lot more on it earlier, but I think the idea is supposed to be that 'Ella Deux' hacked it and removed most of it or something. There also are two twitter accounts active, @EllaDeux and @12072299. Basically a bunch of coded Fallout terminal chatter and some links to the tumblr. Yeah but given the amount of content out, it definitely seems plausible that there could be some movement out on an announcement soon. I mean if not then it's definitely one hell of an elaborately orchestrated ruse...Either way I think it's safe to say that plenty of users have been sitting on their balls in anticipation to the point that anything less then an announcement would result in a million man march of raging neckbeards headed towards Bethesda Studios. Personally, I think FO4 is inevitable... and with the release of the new consoles I think they're more then keen on it. Though I am a bit worried that they'd be aiming to please the console crowd at the expense of the PC end of things at first and maybe even rushed in trying to cap that "new console" market by being one of the bigger titles early on them or whatever. But I guess so long as they keep the PC version highly moddable we'll be able to work our whatever kinks or weaknesses that'll exist.
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Nov 17, 2013 09:34
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8bitlawd posted:Yeah but given the amount of content out, it definitely seems plausible that there could be some movement out on an announcement soon. I mean if not then it's definitely one hell of an elaborately orchestrated ruse...Either way I think it's safe to say that plenty of users have been sitting on their balls in anticipation to the point that anything less then an announcement would result in a million man march of raging neckbeards headed towards Bethesda Studios. PC games suffering because of consoles just seems like the new norm to me. At least the new consoles don't have as lovely, outdated hardware as the last generation. Skyrim definitely suffered from consoles + time/budget. It also had lot of other really awful design decisions that modders had to fix but was still an amazing game. An announcement upcoming would also be in keeping with Bethesda tradition. I think Skyrim was announced around this time. I believe I heard Fallout 3's countdown timer counted down to 7/8/09 and Skyrim was released on 11/11/11 so odd dates seem important to Bethesda. The Survivor 2299 countdown seems to be pointed towards 12/11/13 (which would be 11/12/13 under international date format).
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Nov 17, 2013 09:48
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RE: post-ending play, other than the Legion, all the other endings seem like they would maintain the status quo? I mean, a House or Yes Man ending would have a smaller NCR military presence (and presumably securitrons posted up at Hoover Dam), and there's that little dangling plot thread where it's uncertain how things played out with the Three Families, but eh, doesn't seem to be much more to it than that. Though it could be a springboard for a Broken Steel type scenario where afterwards you get one big quest chain and a few little ones (like the BoS scribe who needed help running water caravans) which could be interesting. Still, I'm much happier with the DLC we got than the ability to go back and finish that quest to repair that one guy's food processor.
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Nov 17, 2013 11:07
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Korbin posted:Thoughts on http://thesurvivor2299.com/ ? Well, it looks like someone is putting together an ARG. But whether or not it's Bethesda is still up in the air.
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Nov 17, 2013 11:13
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rope kid posted:IMO, nothing goes beyond the realm of Charles Taylor's Liberia. That was Hell on Earth-level systematic atrocity and it happened within my lifetime. It's much easier to be skeptical of the magnitude of abuse that writers express about historical warlords like Timur, but Liberia was well-documented and -- at least in the details -- was crazier than what we know about the olde tyme dudes. So while it's certainly true that no historical figure has done specifically what Caesar does in F:NV, I have no doubt that a human being in a position of power could attempt to do something similar. The main weakness of Legion is not the plausibility (or lack of thereof) of its crimes, but the way its officers and soldiers are portrayed. They are cold, efficient, inhuman creatures that just clash against the reality of violence. Even in the case of Taylor, Koroma, or even with Khmer Rouge leadership and their lieutenants and men, the genesis and windfall of the atrocities was much more nuanced and marked with the necessary coexistence of past bonds and present violence that prevented these societies from descending into outright disintegration. Throughout the world - in Cambodia, Liberia, Rwanda... - there are even today numerous men who participated in acts that would make Caesar stare in horror and disbelief, and they never fully succumbed to the sort of mindless violence-affirming ideology that is prevalent in Legion, never lost their sense of belonging with the society in which they grew up, never became emotionless robots, and in most cases actually reintegrated and had to confront their baggage with their past victims. With Legion, there is no sense of the profound tragedy of twisted lives denied a peaceful existence because there is no human element involved, even though you are seemingly involved with Legion members, they never breach the caricature-like mask of their uniform. Even the past members such as Joshua and Ulysses are melodramatic brooding figures instead of something more believable. If anyone is interested in the topic, there's a number of excellent documentaries on the topic. Sambath's Enemies of the People traces personal journey of people involved in Cambodia's killing fields, including Nuon Chea; War Don Don by Rebecca Richman documents Sierra Leone's issues in light of the Issa Sesay trial; Anne Aghion's My Neighbor, My Killer follows Rwanda's killers and victims as they return to live together in their original villages. Furthermore, BBC World podcast archives feature a number of pieces on legacy of Taylor's regime etc.
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Nov 17, 2013 11:26
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Bethesda filing trademark for FO4 isn't exactly a surprise, but it's only three days ago which combined with the viral marketing campaign suggests something's definitely going on:
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Nov 17, 2013 11:40
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If Obsidian aren't in on this it's going to be really pretty but with a loving awful storyline about an inch deep. And bethesda'll find a new way to poo poo over everything too.
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Nov 17, 2013 12:01
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I would be absolutely amazed if Bethesda breaks with doing things in house, especially for their main entry in the franchise. If Fallout 4 kills it and they want a spinoff in between this and 5, maybe Obsidian would do it but otherwise there's no serious reason to believe they're just gonna outsource development of a tentpole entry in a tentpole franchise.
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Nov 17, 2013 12:07
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steinrokkan posted:The main weakness of Legion is not the plausibility (or lack of thereof) of its crimes, but the way its officers and soldiers are portrayed. They are cold, efficient, inhuman creatures that just clash against the reality of violence. Repressions are conducted against someone defined as an enemy, whether within or without your territory, for the (ostensible) benefit of the silent/participating majority that is not being repressed - since you can't actually repress the entirety of your population, no matter how bloodthirsty or totalitarian you are. Had the Legion followed the example of the Mongols / Golden Horde / Timurids etc - bloody atrocities in the name of conquest on the borders of the empire, peace and quiet in the territories under secure control, that would have been fine (and we see a nod to that with the notion that trade routes are safe within legion territory). But none of those guys, ancient and modern, turned around and went "rape camps for everyone (slave collars for the others)". Anyone who (mis)understands Hegelian dialectics should be able to do a basic analysis from a Marxist perspective (or going back to Rome, "gold is the lifeblood of war" or something of the sort) about the necessity of a stable population not being actively repressed as it supports your atrocities elsewhere . To summarize: "We're going to brutalize everyone who is not us" works for a darker shade of grey faction and is realistic-ish. "We're going to brutalize everyone including us", is just stupidly grimdark.
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Nov 17, 2013 13:37
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Meh, I kinda find it irritating in RPGs that I seem to have a uncanny ability to put all my skillpoints in the most useless attributes/skills possible: after checking out this thread and some character build manuals, I realized that my smooth-talking charisma master was a pretty bad choice. The game doesn't seem to be too hard so I guess it doesn't matter too much, but still.
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Nov 17, 2013 13:47
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I was able to cruise through just fine with a Charisma focused character with a 1 in Intelligence, never upgraded. Speech is quite useful later, and especially if you have GRA, those extra caps can buy you amazing weapons as soon as you reach Freeside.
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Nov 17, 2013 14:03
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ManOfTheYear posted:Meh, I kinda find it irritating in RPGs that I seem to have a uncanny ability to put all my skillpoints in the most useless attributes/skills possible: after checking out this thread and some character build manuals, I realized that my smooth-talking charisma master was a pretty bad choice. The game doesn't seem to be too hard so I guess it doesn't matter too much, but still. It's not a bad choice at all. It's a bad choice if what you want to do is to kill people as effectively as possible but then you knew that going in Remember that you can finish the game without killing anyone or anything
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Nov 17, 2013 14:16
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Alternatively, remember that with 10 charisma Boone is 50% more durable and does 50% more damage. Though you'll have to deal with enemies turning a bright shade of pink for the brief moment they're alive. He'll still hate you if you take his hat though. 
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Nov 17, 2013 16:16
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rope kid posted:I've written this before, but along with not completing our post-game content, the biggest regret I have about F:NV is that the Legion is not more thoroughly-defined and explored. I also think that the rank-and-file Legionaries were written with a much more overtly woman-hating attitude than I envisioned. I pictured their attitude as being much more matter-of-fact (though still horrible), but they talk as though they actively loathe women. Consequently, their reaction to a female Courier would have been more, "Uh... what the heck?" than https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeEyL-hQg_o With some of the mods that have come out in the last few years that are DLC-sized in scope, I'm surprised no one's tried to make a Legion-centric one where you get to travel to Arizona for *reasons*. Explore the tamed lands of Caesar, walk safe highways, and if you're an NCR-aligned Courier, find the hidden slave rebellion led by a mysterious slave named Spartacus hiding near the plateaus of New Mexico and lead them to a successful escape!
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Nov 17, 2013 16:24
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ManOfTheYear posted:Meh, I kinda find it irritating in RPGs that I seem to have a uncanny ability to put all my skillpoints in the most useless attributes/skills possible: after checking out this thread and some character build manuals, I realized that my smooth-talking charisma master was a pretty bad choice. The game doesn't seem to be too hard so I guess it doesn't matter too much, but still.
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