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Kangra posted:I'm not going to go listen to it again, but I thought they said this was either from somewhere else or just produced by someone who has her own show. Which makes the whole show apparently just promoting other people's stuff (except maybe Bribiglia) which I guess is what to do when the topic is self-promotion. I sort of thought that was the point, in an annoying way. I was listening to it while doing work and I thought I had missed what the point of the story was so I just stopped and listened. When she said she was going to Mars or whatever, it was a pretty big shock. Maybe intentional?
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Sep 15, 2014 02:21
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The Mars segment was from Love + Radio podcast I am pretty sure. I heard it a few months back when I was trying out a few other TAL style podcasts.
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Sep 15, 2014 03:39
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PaganGoatPants posted:This Not-So-Simple Majority thing is Also a crazy amount of Godwinning
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Sep 15, 2014 07:31
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PaganGoatPants posted:This Not-So-Simple Majority thing is WOW was that infuriating.
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Sep 15, 2014 17:38
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Yeah that was pretty insane. Those kind of stories is what I really love about TAL. I wish they would do more like them.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:09
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Yeah that episode was straight up nuts.  It's an inherently uncorrectable solution. The "best" solution would be for people to leave, but moving is next to impossible depending on finances.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:16
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So when I listened to the teaser at the end of last week's podcast release of TAL, I thought "Huh, sounds kind of like where I live. I wonder what's going on in that place." And then TAL released an episode about where I live. Like, one of the mentioned schools used to be my election polling place and I live a block away from the other one. Holy poo poo. I knew the school situation is bad here, but I had no idea just how bad. I'd heard about the hosed-up sale of Hillcrest, but not about a lot of the details. (I don't have kids, so while I support giving the schools more funding, the issue hasn't been personally relevant to me.) I definitely hadn't heard about the Hitler commercial. The funny (not really) thing is that towns are pressed right against each other here, so in at least part of the area, families could move ten minutes away and be in the next school district over. But even that much can be difficult if you're really cash strapped, and obviously an entire district's worth of families can't do that.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:38
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Straight up mafia. TIME FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION!
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Sep 16, 2014 02:40
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SHAME. SHAME. GOD IS WATCHING YOUUUUUUU.
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Sep 16, 2014 03:37
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The one guy actually playing the card for being (probably correctly) accused of caring more about money than the welfare of children was astounding, not to mention those attack ads 
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Sep 16, 2014 03:40
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mcmagic posted:WOW was that infuriating. Yeah. Great episode but so so frustrating.
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Sep 16, 2014 19:11
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After a couple less than stellar episodes a classic TAL episode to get your blood pumping.
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Sep 16, 2014 22:20
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quote:Not-So-Simple Majority
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Sep 17, 2014 03:50
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You can't, so I wouldn't. It's super enraging.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:18
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UltraRed posted:Should I listen to this? If I can't make a difference, I'd rather not spend the day enraged. Are you and ten thousand of your closest friends willing to move to East Ramapo to vote in school board elections?
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Sep 17, 2014 04:56
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This week's episode almost made me anti-semitic. Not really, but drat did it ruin my commute.
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Sep 17, 2014 07:49
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The worst part for me was that you knew the antisemitism thing was coming, but they waited until like last quarter of the show to drop it.
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Sep 17, 2014 17:47
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Yeah that was exactly the kind of TAL episode I love. Made me so angry but it was interesting at least!
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Sep 17, 2014 22:20
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 Study hall, lunch, lunch, lunch, class, lunch, study hall? 'must be fake.' Wow. And they rehired that law firm? Seriously? Jesus Christ. This episode was one big . Those poor kids.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:10
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One thing that the TAL coverage doesn't got some chores tonight fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 23:20
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dongsbot 9000 posted:One thing that the TAL coverage doesn't mention is that two thirds of the students in the East Ramapo school districts are attending yeshivas. While it does not justify the drastic cuts to classes and staff, it paints the story in a slightly different light. It does actually say that the majority of school age kids in the area are Hassid's SleepyK posted:
To be fair they didn't rehire the firm, they just never actually fired them after saying they would.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:23
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dongsbot 9000 posted:One thing that the TAL coverage doesn't mention is that two thirds of the students in the East Ramapo school districts are attending yeshivas. While that fact might not justify the drastic cuts to classes and staff, it paints the story in a slightly different light. This isn't a super-rich Jewish minority oppressing the poor African-American and Hispanic immigrants attending public school; it's the just as poor Hasidic community paying most of the money for a school system they don't (and can't, for religious reasons) use.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:26
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The latter. I suppose they aren't in the school district if they are attending private institutions, but they live in the area such that they would be East Ramapo students, and more importantly for this case, their parents are paying East Ramapo taxes. I would edit my post, but I think I've done enough of that already. 
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Sep 17, 2014 23:28
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Yeah I found myself kind of conflicted about the taxation part. I'm a pretty big proponent of public schools and I kind roll my eyes at the "if I'M not using it then why should I pay for it" thing, but when the spread is that big I can sympathize with them a bit. That being said taking over the system and completely loving it over is still a poo poo thing to do, and tossing out accusations of anti-Semitism when it's convenient because someone has a legitimate issue with what you're doing is always infuriating.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:33
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They moved into an area where they knew they would be paying taxes for a school system they weren't intending to use so they can gently caress off with their complaints. Also any idea that the school board were acting honestly can be thrown out the window with the bit where they defrauded the school district by getting false property valuations to sell off schools to their friends for cheap.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:52
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I think it's important to realise that we probably aren't being presented with the complete story. While it might be fair to say that the Orthodox community whose students don't attend the school might not have the exact same goals as the community whose students do attend the public school, it is unconstitutional to say that the tax-paying Orthodox resident can't run for office because he doesn't have students enrolled at that school (taxation without representation, natch). Furthermore, I would be highly surprised if there have never been anti-Semitic comments regarding this situation. TAL showed the ugly of the Orthodox community (lawyer calling a woman a oval office) but it doesn't spend as much time on the ugly of the public school community. While the high schooler says she shuts down any anti-Semitic comments at her rallies, if students are asking teachers about "Why are the Jews doing this to us" or looking for "Jews to shoot", they're probably receiving a bad message in their home, and quite possibly, these comments are uttered directly to the board members by public school parents. We wouldn't know since none of the board members really wanted to discuss the situation (I don't blame them.) I think the Hasidic vs Public-School story is hiding the real story of a disconnect between the state government and the local city whose demographics have significantly changed to the extent that the old system doesn't work anymore. When you think about it like that, I think it clarifies why the school board would keep around the more expensive firm, because that is the firm that is comfortable with these matters since they've worked in these situations before. I must confess, that decision confused me as first, but I am beginning to see the whys behind it.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:58
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Gough Suppressant posted:They moved into an area where they knew they would be paying taxes for a school system they weren't intending to use so they can gently caress off with their complaints. youre right why didnt these jews just move back to israel if they didn't want to pay taxes which steadily increased every year. gently caress them for deciding to exercise their democratic rights to impact local government
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Sep 18, 2014 00:00
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So it's pretty much as he said at the start of the podcast. Don't drive? still gotta pay road maintenance. Go to private school? Still gotta support the public option. Everything else after that is typical council politics with a heavy unethical slant.dongsbot 9000 posted:youre right why didnt these jews just move back to israel if they didn't want to pay taxes which steadily increased every year. gently caress them for deciding to exercise their democratic rights to impact local government You're stupid and this is a stupid post.
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Sep 18, 2014 00:10
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The Hasidim definitely had some legitimate beefs with the way things were run before, and Rockland County as a whole has its own funding issues. I'm not a fan of the way schools in this country are run either—it's just so inconsistent. That said I think the school board is unquestionably doing net harm. Property taxes are high in this entire region of the country, not just here, and plenty of people don't have kids to benefit from the funding. The Hasidim are hardly the ones whose taxes go toward something they won't use.
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Sep 18, 2014 00:22
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Zigmidge posted:Don't drive? still gotta pay road maintenance. Not entirely. Road infrastructure often comes from gas taxes. Smart government pays attention to whose taxes are going to whose services. Not defending all of the crazy actions of the school board. But I don't think you can blame them for trying to point the money back into their own community. That's what everyone does.
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Sep 18, 2014 00:48
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dongsbot 9000 posted:I think it's important to realise that we probably aren't being presented with the complete story. While it might be fair to say that the Orthodox community whose students don't attend the school might not have the exact same goals as the community whose students do attend the public school, it is unconstitutional to say that the tax-paying Orthodox resident can't run for office because he doesn't have students enrolled at that school (taxation without representation, natch). Furthermore, I would be highly surprised if there have never been anti-Semitic comments regarding this situation. TAL showed the ugly of the Orthodox community (lawyer calling a woman a oval office) but it doesn't spend as much time on the ugly of the public school community. While the high schooler says she shuts down any anti-Semitic comments at her rallies, if students are asking teachers about "Why are the Jews doing this to us" or looking for "Jews to shoot", they're probably receiving a bad message in their home, and quite possibly, these comments are uttered directly to the board members by public school parents. We wouldn't know since none of the board members really wanted to discuss the situation (I don't blame them.) One reason we weren't presented with the complete story is that the Orthodox community did not participate in the story. And if the author is telling the truth, they had numerous changes to articulate their own views and standings but choose not to. dongsbot 9000 posted:youre right why didnt these jews just move back to israel if they didn't want to pay taxes which steadily increased every year. gently caress them for deciding to exercise their democratic rights to impact local government Settle down there buddy. Taking the articles I read about the subject and this episode of TAL completely at face value this much is clear. The Orthodox community is not being 100 percent forthcoming with their budgets, not operating in a transparent manner (the school board meetings where they simply adjourn for a private meeting leaving those in attendance to twiddle their thumbs), and are simply being dishonest in many regards when it comes to treating the community they (the school board) represent. What is also clear from the episode is their a tragic and seemingly unfixable divide that obscures a greater truth and problem. I ultimately find the Orthodox community's stance disingenuous and quite self serving. What I find most damning is the viewpoint from either side of "If you don't like it, move" attitude. Pardon the platitudes about democracy in America and being a republic but seen at the local level as we did in this episode, this is one of the most important aspects of how this country operates. Government is not the enemy in this case. The Orthodox community has done nothing illegal by being voted and controlling the school board. But by participating in this base system, they are buying into a larger system of societal responsibility that comes with such benefits. They are destroying the community slowly but surely if they think what they are doing is sustainable. To quote Robert Kennedy, "For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is a slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter. This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all. I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies - to be met not with cooperation but with conquest, to be subjugated and mastered. We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community, men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear - only a common desire to retreat from each other - only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this there are no final answers." This is an American tragedy unfolding in a small community in New York. Disagreement has taken on Shakespearean heights but whatever happens will be a tiny blip on the radar of America and for that I am truly sad.
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Sep 18, 2014 09:31
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dongsbot 9000 posted:youre right why didnt these jews just move back to israel if they didn't want to pay taxes which steadily increased every year. gently caress them for deciding to exercise their democratic rights to impact local government No, gently caress them to using their democratic rights to subvert and destroy the public good.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:16
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I know we are all powerless to really do anything to fix the situation but something has to be happening with so many enraged eyes on the situation, right?
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Sep 20, 2014 13:40
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Zigmidge posted:So it's pretty much as he said at the start of the podcast. Don't drive? still gotta pay road maintenance. Go to private school? Still gotta support the public option. Everything else after that is typical council politics with a heavy unethical slant. Well, no. That's the non-problematic part. If they had stopped paying their taxes the situation wouldn't be ambiguous. But they are, they are paying for public schools with their taxes. They're just using their democratic powers to make these taxes as low as possible. And that's a problem that arises everytime a majority rules over the fate of a minority. If this school board situation shouldn't be allowed to happen, why should, for example, the general public be allowed to decide on things like welfare?
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Sep 22, 2014 13:28
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cebrail posted:Well, no. That's the non-problematic part. If they had stopped paying their taxes the situation wouldn't be ambiguous. But they are, they are paying for public schools with their taxes. They're just using their democratic powers to make these taxes as low as possible. And that's a problem that arises everytime a majority rules over the fate of a minority. If this school board situation shouldn't be allowed to happen, why should, for example, the general public be allowed to decide on things like welfare? There was the whole "lets use state money for religious schools with respect to special needs students" thing. I have no idea why that poo poo is even tolerated to begin with.
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Sep 22, 2014 14:11
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Man, these people really like Chad.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:21
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cebrail posted:Well, no. That's the non-problematic part. If they had stopped paying their taxes the situation wouldn't be ambiguous. But they are, they are paying for public schools with their taxes. They're just using their democratic powers to make these taxes as low as possible. And that's a problem that arises everytime a majority rules over the fate of a minority. If this school board situation shouldn't be allowed to happen, why should, for example, the general public be allowed to decide on things like welfare? Yeah, exactly. It was a good story, but the intro bugged me when Ira presented it as "like no school board story you've ever heard." I think there are a lot of black families that would think it sounded very familiar. A lot of other groups too. The biggest difference here is that the group getting squeezed were white. Again, not defending any of the actions of the groups in the story, but our system encourages exactly this, and it's been going on for a long long time.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:48
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After two weeks of depressing and/or infuriating stories it's good to see that the upcoming story will also be depressing and/or infuriating.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:52
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wafflesnsegways posted:Yeah, exactly. It was a good story, but the intro bugged me when Ira presented it as "like no school board story you've ever heard." Yes, I didn't like the onesidedness either. Obviously it's easy to judge it on an emotional level, but aside from the thing with special needs students and yeshivas which sounded like semilegal lawyer crap, but issue isn't really the behavior of the hasidic community, there's nothing inherently wrong with voting against taxes you don't like. It simply shouldn't be possible for a school district to gently caress up its schools for personal profit.
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Sep 22, 2014 16:59
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wafflesnsegways posted:The biggest difference here is that the group getting squeezed were white. I struggled a bit with this one, but I think you're basically right. This sort of thing--where the fates of people in a school district are controlled by an "other"--has repeatedly happened to economic and racial minorities, to the point where, like you, I really wonder if it's not just the same old story, but with a somewhat different cast of players. However, this article states that the people most affected by this issue at this point are probably minorities: quote:The simple act of arriving in America from a stressed place puts you in a vivid, complicated relationship with privilege. There are the lottery-ticket odds of landing here but also, often, the vivid comedown from elite status in the old country to a fringe position in the new one. This part of Rockland County has been declining for years, and the middle-class community that once inhabited it has been largely replaced by the Orthodox and by immigrants. There are now only a handful of white students in the public schools, and more than half the children there receive reduced-fee lunches. “A lot of them are from immigrant families, and they’re looking for that better life,” says Fields. “And I don’t know if it’s going to happen.” Many of the refugees are lingering on five- and six-year paths to graduation. Which indicates that "white flight" has occurred, at least for the public school system--and for those who can afford to put their kids on another bus, or in a private school.
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Sep 22, 2014 18:50
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