|
I don't even know what the gently caress that means. Observation is study. Study builds understanding. It's the same thing. Drawing what you see *eventually* leads to understanding how things are put together and how to translate that from 3D into 2D. Even tracing has its lessons you can learn. It's NEVER too late to learn to draw, and yes, anyone can do it. Period. It just takes time and work.
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
mutata posted:I don't even know what the gently caress that means. Observation is study. Study builds understanding. It's the same thing. Drawing what you see *eventually* leads to understanding how things are put together and how to translate that from 3D into 2D. Even tracing has its lessons you can learn. A guy at work saw some of my lunch / meeting sketches and said "Man, I wish I could draw like that." I replied "You can, just draw for an hour every day for 10 years."
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Loomis. Rightside is great for drawing from life, Loomis (particularly Fun With a Pencil) is great for drawing from imagination. Practice both approaches a ton, and stuff from one leaks into the other (in a good way). Eventually, you're imagining stuff with enough detail that you can use bits you've drawn from life to figure out how each part should look, and there's no difference between the two parts. (And then you attain enlightenment  ). Say I'm drawing a monster with big oogly eyes, well, I know I'm basically drawing a sphere, and I've practised drawing real spheres, so I can make a sort of mental collage, and then draw it. Nothing compares to just drawing a bunch of stuff, but a good book will have one or two ideas that might take you a load of time to figure out by yourself, or help you notice an area you're lacking in. The big thing I learnt from Loomis (or rather, that Loomis clubs you with until it sinks in) was that I should be thinking in terms of 3d forms, rather than just outlines of stuff. I'm not sure about the 'getting the basics down before figure drawing' - if you want to draw people, then draw people. Other stuff might help you deal with problems you have drawing people, but there's no big exam you have to pass before you're worthy of drawing people. And if you don't practise drawing people now, you won't get to see how much you've improved in a few months! (I suck at explaining stuff. Buy Loomis books and draw people.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 02:45
|
|
|
mutata posted:I don't even know what the gently caress that means. Observation is study. Study builds understanding. It's the same thing. Drawing what you see *eventually* leads to understanding how things are put together and how to translate that from 3D into 2D. Even tracing has its lessons you can learn. Yeah. This is everything in a nutshell. Don't worry so much about what method you use, almost everything has it's merit. Just make sure however you choose to learn drawing, that you spend the time to do it. If you have the motivation you'll find the way, if you don't have the motivation you will fail no matter what.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
The Big Lesson that I still struggle with is 'stop worrying, just chill the gently caress out and enjoy it'. I've spent far too much time worrying about "proper technique" instead of just drawing some stuff. The goon who recommended buying a ream of Kraft paper is genius, the poo poo's cheap enough that even I can relax and just make huge swipes across the page without worrying. e: I spent half an hour after buying conte crayons earlier googling for 'should they be pointed like a pencil' instead of just making some marks with them and finding out 
petrol blue fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Feb 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 03:12
|
|
|
Yeah I bought some newsprint and now I can draw without worrying about messing up the precious white pages of my sketchbook with embarrassingly bad drawings of me attempting to learn human proportions/anatomy as for conte crayons/ stick of charcoal/ sticks of graphite, they can be whatever shape you want. Like if you want to make a bunch of small flowers or something using texture you could just break that poo poo in half to get a rough shape and then twist it around on the broken end to get interesting results. Also you can alter the edges of the sticks of graphite/charcoal by scraping notches into them so that when you use that edge it will create multiple lines with a small gap between them. There isn't like a "proper" way to use this stuff, use it how ever you want to and experiment
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 03:32
|
|
|
I blame acedemia for making me want to learn the proper goddamn way to do everything.  Give me the Conte you are doing it wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 03:57
|
|
|
One of the most drastic upticks in my craftsmanship, quality, and creativity happened when I switched from buying ~$10-$15 sketchbooks to buying a clipboard and a ream of loose leaf printer paper, and that wasn't a coincidence.petrol blue posted:The Big Lesson that I still struggle with is 'stop worrying, just chill the gently caress out and enjoy it'. I've spent far too much time worrying about "proper technique" instead of just drawing some stuff. And then be a commercial artist like me and try to make a living off of making art and ahhhh the doubt 
mutata fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Feb 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 04:07
|
|
|
mutata posted:One of the most drastic upticks in my craftsmanship, quality, and creativity happened when I switched from buying ~$10-$15 sketchbooks to buying a clipboard and a ream of loose leaf printer paper, and that wasn't a coincidence. I'm one of those weirdos that owns a stack of empty sketchbooks because I don't want to *ruin* them with my terrible art. Getting a clipboard and just drawing on printer paper seems like such a no-brainer fabulous idea, I'm glad you mentioned it because that's precisely what I am going to do now. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 07:02
|
|
|
petrol blue posted:The Big Lesson that I still struggle with is 'stop worrying, just chill the gently caress out and enjoy it'. I've spent far too much time worrying about "proper technique" instead of just drawing some stuff. Glad I'm not the only one that has to work through decision paralysis. It seem so much in life is a long, long list of awful decisions you can make that will needlessly waste your time and money for no benefit whatsoever, with only a smattering of good decisions that won't hurt you quite so much. I need to get it through my thick head that even if I draw wrong I'm not hurting myself by 'learning it wrong'. In fighting, if you learn to punch wrong it will haunt you for years. Art it seems, not so much.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 15:00
|
|
|
My equiv for 'learning it wrong' was guitar playing, but yeah, same idea. The closest thing I've come across to 'doing it wrong, learning bad habits' is that I started drawing as an 'I want to draw manga' thing.  Draw a circle, add a squiggle, [mysterious step that involves buying the next book], etc.I'm falling a little bit in love with conte / brown paper as a cheap sketching medium:  A rough sketch (about 10cm x 10cm) for a monster-thing I've been working on - I love how fast it is to lay down areas of highlights/shadow. I think it'll be a long time before I use it for any final work, but so far it's looking set to become my favourite sketching medium. Now to justify skimping on [something] so I can afford the book that inspired me to try it. How it's developed so far: 
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 01:00
|
|
|
Speaking of conte pencils - if you sharpen them into a long taper, they become incredible versatile. With practice and various grips, you can get various line qualities and they put down big swaths of tone with little effort. This works well on pierre noir pencils. For sepia and sanguine, I use a shorter taper, as they are softer and prone to breakage. Also, if you drop you pencil on hard floor or if they were shipped to you and handled poorly, there's a good chance that you have little hairline fractures further down the pencil that cause the pencils to break while you sharpen them. I tend to toss a pencil that breaks a couple times when sharpening, as it most likely has tons of hairline fractures that make my life miserable. There are lots of great videos on how to do this if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJh3KAXWjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw-piPn9d6Q And everyone's favorite, Proko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_W9sZ8S7RM
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
Billy Shears posted:Speaking of conte pencils - if you sharpen them into a long taper, they become incredible versatile. With practice and various grips, you can get various line qualities and they put down big swaths of tone with little effort. This works well on pierre noir pencils. For sepia and sanguine, I use a shorter taper, as they are softer and prone to breakage. Also, if you drop you pencil on hard floor or if they were shipped to you and handled poorly, there's a good chance that you have little hairline fractures further down the pencil that cause the pencils to break while you sharpen them. I tend to toss a pencil that breaks a couple times when sharpening, as it most likely has tons of hairline fractures that make my life miserable. here's another helpful vidoe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkSmaFAuaH4
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 03:03
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:Is it possible to build an understanding of what you see from sufficient drawing of what you see, or is acquiring that skill as impossible to acquire if you learn to draw too late? petrol blue posted:The big thing I learnt from Loomis (or rather, that Loomis clubs you with until it sinks in) was that I should be thinking in terms of 3d forms, rather than just outlines of stuff. petrol blue posted:The Big Lesson that I still struggle with is 'stop worrying, just chill the gently caress out and enjoy it'. I've spent far too much time worrying about "proper technique" instead of just drawing some stuff. Now that you have a large ream of cheap paper, go outside for a walk, gentle goon, and return with a stick, twice the length of your arm (or a dowel from the home depot). With some tape, attach a piece of charcoal to one end. Hold the other end in one hand, arm outstretched. Throw your paper on the ground before your feet, and draw! Look at something like a beautiful lady and draw with your entire arm. Draw what your eyes see and your brain generally understands and don't care about the results. As you relax you will begin to feel the real essence of it all begin to drip from your fingertips. (Personally I found that I could create more beautiful lines by just allowing it to flow along the page as it wished, rather than carefully steering it. A skill I directly apply to my career.) Then you can go back to whatever your chosen medium is and be careful about further creation if you wish...but you'll probably find that shapes begin to just spring from your hands the more you relax and start riding the waves created by your fingers or subconscious or whatever the hell it is inside that controls this sort of thing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 18:22
|
|
|
Ack, I've heard about the telescoped-drawing exercise, and I need to do it precisely because it feels so WRONG YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG GIVE ME THE PENCIL etc. What sort of stick? Is this one long enough? What about the charcoal? Does the lady have to be 'attractive', and what is that out of ten 
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
Get a lady with nice curves; It's good for drawing outlines along hips and elbows. Fundamentally, the point is to obliterate your ability to tightly control your mark making. Use charcoal that's thick as a pencil or more so it doesn't break. At the end of the exercise you can ball all your paper up and set it on fire.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2015 14:36
|
|
|
i am harry posted:It's pretty beneficial to smash and shatter all the nice, delicate, and valuable feelings one may direct toward art creation (or just think of it as creation,simply). What? How does that not produce a bunch of incomprehensible scribbles? Or is that the point? To be quite honest I've never heard of anything resembling what you're describing, so I may have trouble visualizing it. In other news, I gotta stop procrastinating with drawing, grit my teeth, and just do it. Too many damned excuses why I'm not putting pencil to paper.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2015 15:37
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:What? How does that not produce a bunch of incomprehensible scribbles? Or is that the point? It's a common mistake to focus too much on small details instead of big-picture shapes and gestures. It's kind of an extreme form of "draw with your arm, not your wrist," but it sounds legit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2015 15:42
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:What? How does that not produce a bunch of incomprehensible scribbles? Or is that the point? In this exercise, what you produce is not important. It's important to not care about the finished product, and relax. It sounds like new-age crystal healing, but relaxed drawing with your wrist/arm produces marks and shapes that your wrist/fingertips don't. Stop asking so many loving questions TwoQuestions and just do what I tell you. I wouldn't dream of wasting any of our valuable time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
OMG you guys! Turns out art is fun, who knew? Seriously, I've been enjoying working on the bigass paper so much, just making huge sweeps and chilling, I think I'd gotten so caught up in 'improving' that I forgot to enjoy it. I've not had a chance to try the stick-of-doom exercise yet (who knew decent sticks were hard to find?), but I'm looking forward to it. I'm loving the Conte crayons, again with the big sweeps of colour (well, monochrome, but you know what I mean). Is there any way to avoid them wearing to a point? Having a square cross-section seemed more versatile to me, but they wear down to points pretty fast.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 12:50
|
|
|
Try holding it fixed in your hand, but gently so you don't cramp and at a slight angle so it's comfortable, keep your wrist still and draw with your arm...I would think it'd begin to grind down to a flat edge pretty quickly and it encourages you to do those things you're enjoying. I used the first thing I could find that wasn't a crayola marker as an example: http://instagram.com/p/zBlb5sF4_4/?modal=true
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 03:35
|
|
|
Good idea, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 04:57
|
|
|
I've never really been interested in drawing, presuming I had no artistic capability. However on Paddy's Night a guy in the bar drew a portrait of me and got me to draw something from a poster. It was fun, I was terrible but with a lot of time on my hands I decided to pick up some fancy pencils and some paper today and give Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain a go. One of the first tasks the book has you do is to draw three things before you even begin on the lessons, so you have a reference for how far you've come. The three things are a self-portrait, a portrait from memory, and your hand. It says it should take you about an hour. I don't know if it was an hour per drawing or an hour total but it took me over an hour to do my self portrait. In doing so I turned myself into the ugliest lump on the planet. Mrs. Trunchbull from Matilda. A prop forward too ugly to get on the team. I'm looking forward to getting better at drawing because I also believe it will make me more beautiful.  me... 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:41
|
|
|
Hey, it's a hell of a lot better than the first self-portrait I did for that book. v vAs per usual, I'll recommend Stan Prokopenko's channel to take a browse of once you've finished up Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. Edwards' book is good for introducing some of the basic concepts like measurement, angle-checking, etc., but Prokopenko goes very in-depth with regards to capturing three-dimensionality on the paper. You may also want to browse through George B. Bridgman's Drawing from Life, which, while not filled to the brim with new material over the other two, goes over the idea of the planes of the face, the use of which has immensely helped my own portraiture. Importantly, don't be too orthodox when it comes to picking up drawing techniques. The method that works best for, say, drawing the head is going to differ from person to person (and, sometimes, from pose to pose), so it would behoove you to try out different techniques and find the elements from them that work best together.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Mrenda posted:I've never really been interested in drawing, presuming I had no artistic capability. However on Paddy's Night a guy in the bar drew a portrait of me and got me to draw something from a poster. It was fun, I was terrible but with a lot of time on my hands I decided to pick up some fancy pencils and some paper today and give Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain a go. That drawing is legit cool. Since you posted the before, you are now required by law to post the after. No giving up!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
i am harry posted:Try holding it fixed in your hand, but gently so you don't cramp and at a slight angle so it's comfortable, keep your wrist still and draw with your arm...I would think it'd begin to grind down to a flat edge pretty quickly and it encourages you to do those things you're enjoying. This is good j/o technique advice, thank you
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 12:58
|
|
|
Lenin Riefenstahl posted:This is good j/o technique advice, thank you painting with protein?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 13:06
|
|
|
I've been here before trying to get into drawing, but it didn't really click for me. I'd like to blame time-constraints but in truth it probably boils down to a very silly problem that I'm hung up on. I started with Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain and that started me off with contour drawing and how it was supposed to make your subject look realistic. So now when I draw I always feel like I have to a) be as accurate as possible down to every nook and cranny of a given line, and b) start the drawing like that, just put pen to empty paper and jump right into the detailed contour and get it right. And then I don't get it right, it's just a lot of stress and the drawing comes out wrong. So I guess I'm doing it wrong but then I remember the book having multiple exercises like that. Maybe I'm not getting the point of contour drawing? I just don't know where to start with a proper still life otherwise. Entenzahn fucked around with this message at 11:54 on May 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 11:48
|
|
|
I'm sure experienced artists can put the pencil to the paper and recreate a contour perfectly but for the rest of us, I wouldn't really try. It's much better to lightly block out the primitive shapes and add detail in the contours once you have the rough form and proportions correct. Contour drawings are still good practice though, it develops your hand to eye coordination. Also look into gesture drawing. Gesture drawing is a fun way to capture the motion of subjects without worrying about contours at all.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 16:36
|
|
|
Entenzahn posted:I've been here before trying to get into drawing, but it didn't really click for me. I'd like to blame time-constraints but in truth it probably boils down to a very silly problem that I'm hung up on. I started with Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain and that started me off with contour drawing and how it was supposed to make your subject look realistic. So now when I draw I always feel like I have to a) be as accurate as possible down to every nook and cranny of a given line, and b) start the drawing like that, just put pen to empty paper and jump right into the detailed contour and get it right. And then I don't get it right, it's just a lot of stress and the drawing comes out wrong. A contour drawing is just one exercise among countless others and if its stressing you out then that is a sign to change things up. What DarthJeebus suggested is a really good idea. Try blocking values in loosely first and focus on shapes instead of lines. To get an idea of what this looks like, look up "asaro head" to see a face broken down into shapes. Easiest way (if time and funds are not an issue) might be to just take a life drawing class at your local community college. They'll likely start you on the cheap paper with charcoal and then you'll get in the habit of making a lot of fast drawings with gestures and all kinds of other exercises. For you, the greatest benefit with the class might be the fact that you are making art in a the social setting. So when you struggle, there are people to talk to for advice, encouragement etc. It can also be more fun to draw with other people. Yet another option is just get a sketchbook (can be a stack of cheapo printer paper) and a pen and just draw a combination of stuff from life but also memory/imagination. What's nice about this is if you use a pen, you can't erase your lines. Instead you'll have to deal with whatever you put down as your first line. Yes some of your drawings will not be as good as you want, but that's okay! Quantity is more important than quality for these sketches. It's less about producing a perfect drawing and more about experimentation and loosening up. I think the hardest part about starting art is finding a good process that works for you, personally. But once you do that, I think you'll enjoy drawing a lot more. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 18:30 on May 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
Thanks guys. I'll try some other methods for proper still life drawings, and also do more quick and dirty sketching. Classes are kinda hard right now since it's summer, but I'll be at a workshop in July. Maybe I'm just overly obsessed with getting every line, curve and angle 100% like it is on the subject. When I take other peoples' works and compare them with their respective originals they don't even line up that much. I guess the thing to really take away from this is that I should definitely keep posting about drawing and never actually draw. I'll report back once I've produced something.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
Entenzahn posted:Maybe I'm just overly obsessed with getting every line, curve and angle 100% like it is on the subject. When I take other peoples' works and compare them with their respective originals they don't even line up that much. One of the best things to learn is that you're the only one that knows it's exactly wrong to your reference.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 15:52
|
|
|
If it looks wrong but it's right, it's wrong. If it looks right but it's wrong, it's right.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 16:48
|
|
|
mutata posted:If it looks wrong but it's right, it's wrong. If it looks right but it's wrong, it's right. At the end of the day this is all that matters.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 21:10
|
|
|
Entenzahn posted:Thanks guys. I'll try some other methods for proper still life drawings, and also do more quick and dirty sketching. Classes are kinda hard right now since it's summer, but I'll be at a workshop in July. An easy way to impose a time limit on yourself is to draw people in public places, but not too crowded to where you can get away with staring at someone for ages without them noticing you. A bookstore coffee shop. People will sit and read for 10+ minutes...maybe. Or they might move around a bunch trying to feed their toddler and you don't know how long you've got before they have to run off to the toilets...Or they might notice you looking at them so you have to draw them quickly and out of the corner of your eye. i am harry fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jun 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 08:53
|
|
|
I've been doing the lessons at /r/ArtFundamentals, and it's been a great deal of fun. The guy (Uncomfortable) posting lessons also critiques the homework which is really great. I also signed up for the Foundation Group at Patreon. My uncle is a really great artist and I spent a lot of time with him growing up and drawing was one of those skills that I always wanted to have but was always discouraged by my terrible scribbles. In the courses, my work isn't judged, only my understanding of the lesson. It's taught me to not give a gently caress about the quality of my work and it's one of the reasons I refuse to use scrap paper. I have a small sketchbook that I made out of printer paper and bound with a junk book. I also buy the large ten dollar hardcover ones, they're dope. And pen. I love the Pixma .01. I use up all the white space and I love all of my work. It doesn't mean I don't know what's poo poo and what isn't. It's terrible. All of it. But I'm working toward something and putting all of my effort into it. Another fun thing: I have ADHD and that shows in my work. Uncomfortable (teacher-guy on Reddit) knows about it, but ignores it and I like that. You can absolutely tell the difference between medicated-me art and not medicated-me art. I'll point them out for funsies. I most recently did Lesson 2: Organic Forms, Contour Lines, Dissections and Form Intersections. I also did the optional 250 Boxes. http://imgur.com/a/r8dFq - If it looks sloppy, I'm not medicated. My contour blobs are gorgeous now. Uncomfortable told me to redo the arrows and intersections and to do 250 boxes. http://imgur.com/a/dOE4o - 250 Boxes. I redid a page before posting 'cause it was just so awful. http://imgur.com/a/J1pK5 - Arrows and intersections. Was not medicated for those intersections. Had to redo the intersection! http://imgur.com/a/LCKPa - Still awful. But passed. There's a shitton of pratice and warm-ups that I don't take pictures of but I use almost the same amount of paper just drawing circles, making lines, boxes. I draw contour blobs when I'm bored at work because people think they're neat. I'm currently on Lesson 3. Plants. I'm loving terrible at it but I'm outside and drawing, which is fun. The Foundation Group just started and I'm waiting on a payment. I'm super stoked for it though. -- So I just typed a fuckton of stuff but I want all of you more experienced dudes who hate not drawing perfectly to fuggin' chill. Be proud of the work you did and the effort you put in to it. ITS OKAY
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 22:49
|
|
|
Aafter posted:
A quick crash course in 2pt perspective would save you wasting your time drawing a poo poo load of cubes especially because you didn't learn anything from the exercise. It's literally 3 rules and you never make a mistake. I'll make you a lil video in IG or something if you'd like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
I would love a video but I'm pretty sure I know how 2-point perspective works and I'm making mistakes anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 08:24
|
|
|
Aafter posted:I would love a video but I'm pretty sure I know how 2-point perspective works and I'm making mistakes anyway. http://www.marshallart.com/other/shop/videos/index.php It's been linked here a few times before but these are really nice videos that really go in-depth on perspective, depth, foreshortening, etc. Well worth 12 bucks and enduring some chalkboard noises.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 08:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
i am harry posted:A quick crash course in 2pt perspective would save you wasting your time drawing a poo poo load of cubes especially because you didn't learn anything from the exercise. Hmm, I'm interested what those three rules are, since in my experience most of what people teach about perspective tends to fall apart when you have non-parallel objects. In those cases I resort to what 'feels' right, or 3d models...
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 13:10
|
|
