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Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


I spent an entire weekend on a Vrod a few years ago, and I remember exactly two things about it:

1) My tailbone still hurts, and now I hate forward controls, lovingly referred to as "the flying taco"

2) The engine is weird. The instant things start to get interesting, you've hit the rev limiter. I've never spent as much time on the rev limiter as I did on that bike.

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Marv Hushman
Jun 2, 2010

Freedom Ain't Free


Gay Nudist Dad posted:

Harley's shown a few times they aren't interested in young people's money.

And they've shown that they are, but it's rarely an original effort. The Hummer 125/165 was created from DKW drawings appropriated from defeated Germans. No big, so was our space program. The Sprint was a rebadged Aermacchi. Still no big, as this was a common practice back in the day, with everyone from Sears to Montgomery Wards selling small displacement gateway drugs.

I don't see the V-Rod being a failure, as it's now in its 10th year. Novelty bikes and non-sellers don't last very long in their stable. Still, it may have jumped the shark since they're having to stick on more and more bizarre drag bike bodywork to get people to look at it. The original is an amazing piece of work.

There is something to be said for not screwing around a great deal with an iconic brand. Anyone remember New Coke? Didn't think so.

DILLIGAF
Nov 16, 2003

I don't know, I find it hard to take hipster/non-hipster advice from someone with a Brony avatar!

CombatMedic posted:

My Genuine Harley-Davidson(R) Brand Motor Accessories(R) Buster Sword(R) is on backorder.


Does anyone have a theory why the V-rod line isn't more popular? It's priced close to the Dyna line, yet it has a much more modern engine, lots more HP and torque, not styled like Grandpa's bike, but it is still a Harley.

I feel like if they marketed it as "Not your father's Harley" they might actually sell a few.



The problem is that most die-hard Harley types do not consider it a Harley at all. It is, in most eyes, a metric import with a Harley logo on it.

Harley does one thing and does it fairly well. They make a thumping 45deg Vtwin that feeds the American need for nostalgia. The VRod is never going to be more than an also ran.

Yeah... and gently caress HD for killing the Buell.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


Marv Hushman posted:

There is something to be said for not screwing around a great deal with an iconic brand. Anyone remember New Coke? Didn't think so.

This is true, but once the boomers go, so will their profits. There are people from younger generations that are into Harleys, for sure. But no generation has loved them more than the boomers.

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

One martini is all right. Two are too many, and three are not enough.


I would buy a Harley if I could get it as just a rolling chassis without all the poo poo on it. And gently caress the twin cam. Give me an Evo.

Its cheaper and easier to buy all the ppieces you need and buy an Evo engine from the dealership then it is to actually buy a new bike.

I love my Honda but I have ridden a few of my buddies Harleys. They vibrate like hell, the mid controls suck, and the chrome poo poo on them is ridiculous. That being said in the the next few years I will build one based on an Evo or a Sportster 1200 engine.

Also I hate baggers.

Gay Nudist Dad
Dec 12, 2006

asshole on a scooter


Marv Hushman posted:

And they've shown that they are, but it's rarely an original effort. The Hummer 125/165 was created from DKW drawings appropriated from defeated Germans. No big, so was our space program. The Sprint was a rebadged Aermacchi. Still no big, as this was a common practice back in the day, with everyone from Sears to Montgomery Wards selling small displacement gateway drugs.

Yeah, but that was how many decades ago? Maybe it worked to get young people interested then, which is why old men love Harleys so much now.

Lately, though, if you wanted something from the Harley family and you were under 35, you had to face the wrath of Harley dealers by shopping Buell (if you could find them, covered in dust in a back room) or face the wrath of a Harley dealer by shopping Sportster, unless you're a woman. And now Buell is gone completely.

As for small beginner bikes, you're SOL. Sportsters weight a quarter ton, and their attempt at a real small bike, the Blast, was poo poo.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008

So jewish I traded Hitler gifs
to gentiles for this avatar



The XR1200X isn't a bad bike for us snotty hipsters, but the performance hit compared to a water-cooled naked and the added cost of all those H-D labels makes it uncompetitive on the merits. Buells may not have been super fast but at least they were cheap.

clutchpuck
Apr 30, 2004
ro-tard

CombatMedic posted:

Does anyone have a theory why the V-rod line isn't more popular? It's priced close to the Dyna line, yet it has a much more modern engine, lots more HP and torque, not styled like Grandpa's bike, but it is still a Harley.

I read somewhere that the Vrods support Harley's business overseas. They aren't really for Americans.

As an aside, I wonder if the folks who dismiss Harleys because they vibrate have actual experience riding one. Rubber-mounted touring models are smooth as glass anywhere over idle. Heck, solid-mounted Buell XB models are relatively smooth next to say a Suzuki GSX750 when actually moving, what vibration is present is much lower frequency than that buzzy four so you don't get handshake-buzzer'd at certain RPMs, it's more of a comfortable throb.

And speaking of collective cooling, I'm a little curious about what the traditionalists will think of http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2...d-heads-patent/

Is it just me or is the new Switchback model a dead ringer for my dumpy ol Yamaha? I've always suspected this Vstar is a nod to AMF Harleys, but now I think I have my confirmation.

vs

redscare
Aug 14, 2003


Snowdens Secret posted:

The XR1200X isn't a bad bike for us snotty hipsters, but the performance hit compared to a water-cooled naked and the added cost of all those H-D labels makes it uncompetitive on the merits. Buells may not have been super fast but at least they were cheap.

I traded a much-faster Aprilia twin for mine. People love to wave their dick about performance, but how much do you really need for street riding? There's a certain point, somewhere around that of the SV, where you're nice and solid 99% of the time.

The only real downside to the bike is that it's kinda heavy and has a small tank. Also, there isn't a whole lot out there in the naked standard segment. You have a bunch of Italians - the Guzzi Griso, the Ape Tuono, Duc Monster 1100 - and the Kwak K1000 if you want to be boring about it.

But hey, it could be just me trying to justify my purchase.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008

So jewish I traded Hitler gifs
to gentiles for this avatar



When I looked at it vs my Speed Triple, it wasn't just engine performance - you've got, what, a Showa BPF up front but the rest of the running gear isn't close. Non-radial Nissins vs radial Brembos. No available ABS vs ABS. 5-speed vs 6-speed. Standard old Harley swingarm and dual shocks (that do look pretty cool) vs a more modern sportbike setup and a single-sided swingarm. The Harley doesn't even have a fuel gauge, let alone an efficiency meter, shift lights, etc.

Out of your list the Ducati 1100 Evo is the closest engine-wise, and is about the same price, but is loaded up with goodies (slipper clutch, traction control, ABS) - and it's a Ducati. I know this may be blue-blooded American of me but it's like comparing the brand cachet of a Dodge Charger to a Ferrari.

I'm not saying it's a bad bike - it's certainly lustworthy and cool, but for a customer that doesn't care about the name and doesn't absolutely need the look, it either needs more up-to-date competitive features or about a 15-20% lower price.

redscare
Aug 14, 2003


Yes, its obviously a bike for people that care more about looks than performance rather than people that want neat sportbike bits without the uncomfortable riding position. I'll give you that. As for the Ducati, the main reason I didn't go there is because gently caress me if I'm paying Ferrari prices for spare parts.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003

He's AWESOME!


clutchpuck posted:

Is it just me or is the new Switchback model a dead ringer for my dumpy ol Yamaha? I've always suspected this Vstar is a nod to AMF Harleys, but now I think I have my confirmation.

vs
I don't really see much resemblance beyond "red cruiser." The Yamaha looks more Softail inspired, really.

Marv Hushman
Jun 2, 2010

Freedom Ain't Free


Phat_Albert posted:

This is true, but once the boomers go, so will their profits. There are people from younger generations that are into Harleys, for sure. But no generation has loved them more than the boomers.

I agree. But if I had to place a bet on the social security system or HD surviving the boomers, my money would be on MoCo. I occupy that no man's land between Boomer and X, which means I'll get the very first "Sorry folks, we broke" form letter, but I'll get to ride my 125th Anniversary Dyna Mongo Glide down to pick up my government cheese...

bidikyoopi
Jan 2, 2008

poop ship
destroyer


redscare posted:

As for the Ducati, the main reason I didn't go there is because gently caress me if I'm paying Ferrari prices for spare parts.

So you got a Harley

I'm just poking fun. It's an awesome bike and definitely cooler looking than a Duc (although that's totally subjective). I'd take it over a Monster.

Armyman25
Sep 6, 2005


Well, it's not a Harley (and that's the point), but I am really enjoying my Indian now that the engine got sorted out.



The biggest annoyance is the most common street speeds (30-40) seem like they fall between gears.

redscare
Aug 14, 2003


Bike needs more tassels! Seriously, though, that's nice.

CombatMedic
Feb 26, 2004

ANUDDAH SUCCESSFOOL PRECEEDJUH!


Armyman25 posted:

Well, it's not a Harley (and that's the point), but I am really enjoying my Indian now that the engine got sorted out.



The biggest annoyance is the most common street speeds (30-40) seem like they fall between gears.

Is Indian still in business?

Armyman25
Sep 6, 2005


The Indian Motorcycle Company that built my bike, based out of Gilroy, California, isn't. The new new Indian Motorcycle Company has been purchased by Polaris and is now making bikes in Iowa.

They are a boutique bike that runs from $24K on up. They are pretty nice, but very "exclusive" and I don't know how they are going to stay in business at those prices in this economy.

angryhampster
Oct 21, 2005



Armyman25 posted:

The Indian Motorcycle Company that built my bike, based out of Gilroy, California, isn't. The new new Indian Motorcycle Company has been purchased by Polaris and is now making bikes in Iowa.

They are a boutique bike that runs from $24K on up. They are pretty nice, but very "exclusive" and I don't know how they are going to stay in business at those prices in this economy.


People that buy $24k bikes haven't been affected by the economic downturn. Hence the absurd number of fools running around on Goldwing and Road King trikes.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


Armyman25 posted:

The Indian Motorcycle Company that built my bike, based out of Gilroy, California, isn't. The new new Indian Motorcycle Company has been purchased by Polaris and is now making bikes in Iowa.

They are a boutique bike that runs from $24K on up. They are pretty nice, but very "exclusive" and I don't know how they are going to stay in business at those prices in this economy.

If they can make it, it will be impressive.

It boggles my mind that they could sell Harley clones at more than the cost of the bikes they're cloning.

Deeters
Aug 20, 2007



Harley has this bike anatomy thing on their website. I think it's broken:

Mcqueen
Feb 26, 2007

'HEY MOM, I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!'


Well to be fair, that's not far from the truth.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008

So jewish I traded Hitler gifs
to gentiles for this avatar



Of course it is, no one on a Harley debases themselves by turning

AncientTV
Jun 1, 2006

Still nothing on.

Apparently, everything on a Harley is called the Frame.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.


AncientTV posted:

Apparently, everything on a Harley is called the Frame.

That's because a Harley is the frame through which you view your life.

It's very postmodern.

clutchpuck
Apr 30, 2004
ro-tard

Harley anatomy thing posted:

Little-known fact: most of your stopping power comes from the front brakes.

*deep sigh*

henne
May 9, 2009
Ask me about bouldering with Team Jacob

Z3n posted:

That's because a Harley is the frame through which you view your life.

It's very postmodern.

redscare
Aug 14, 2003


clutchpuck posted:

*deep sigh*

If you're a Harley rider, it is a little-known fact. A good many of them find out the fun way. Sad, really.

clutchpuck
Apr 30, 2004
ro-tard

It just seems like that should be pretty basic common sense. I'm aware it isn't but it just kind of blows my mind that that's the case. And there it is right there, Harley coming out and saying that their demographic can't ride.

Fortunately, the dudes I ride with who are on Harleys, are not that brain dead.

invision
Mar 2, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


clutchpuck posted:

It just seems like that should be pretty basic common sense. I'm aware it isn't but it just kind of blows my mind that that's the case. And there it is right there, Harley coming out and saying that their demographic can't ride.

Fortunately, the dudes I ride with who are on Harleys, are not that brain dead.

Is this some kind of meta-joke that I'm missing?

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


No, its talking about the fact that 10 out of 9 Harley riders think the back brake is the way to go, and that the front brake is the layer down handle. In fact its not even a Harley thing exclusively, there are a ton of riders out there that think that.

Gay Nudist Dad
Dec 12, 2006

asshole on a scooter


Phat_Albert posted:

If they can make it, it will be impressive.

It boggles my mind that they could sell Harley clones at more than the cost of the bikes they're cloning.

Since it's Polaris, which has been doing alright with Victory, I can see this incarnation of Victory doing just fine.

That said, according to the website, the '12 Chief Classic (the cheapest model) is $26k, and the cheapest Road King (clearly its big competitor) are $18k. Yikes. That's a lot of money for long fenders.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


Gay Nudist Dad posted:

Since it's Polaris, which has been doing alright with Victory, I can see this incarnation of Victory doing just fine.

That said, according to the website, the '12 Chief Classic (the cheapest model) is $26k, and the cheapest Road King (clearly its big competitor) are $18k. Yikes. That's a lot of money for long fenders.

I know, right? I dont understand how they can do it, but apparently they're making money at something that should by all reasonable accounts have failed long ago.

More power to them I guess.

SeamusMcPhisticuffs
Aug 2, 2006

republicans.bmp


I would rather have the Road King. The Indian style in general doesn't do much for me.

Saga
Aug 17, 2009


SeamusMcPhisticuffs posted:

I would rather have the Road King. The Indian style in general doesn't do much for me.

Indian motorcycles are the best Indian motorcycles.

Scrapez
Feb 27, 2004



A Harley thread in CA? Get the gently caress out of here.

I have a 2000 Sportster. It began life as an 883 and is now a 1250. Had the conversion done this year by an indy with parts from NRHS. They are a very good outfit if you are thinking of going this route.

Here's the list of what I put into the bike:

1200R/Buell XB heads
1250 Cylinders running 10.5:1
Andrews N4 cams
Dyna 2000i ignition module

Right now I'd guess I'm making 80-85 horsepower at the rear wheel with stock headers and Screamin Eagle II slip ons. Going to go to a 2 into 1 exhaust in the spring and have it dyno'd so I'm excited to see what it will do.

It is a completely different bike as a 1250 than it was as an 883 or even a 1200.

I've got a lot of other more cosmetic work to do on the bike this winter as I've been switching out chrome for black parts (YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY!) for some time now. I'll post up some pics when I am at home.

Scrapez
Feb 27, 2004



A Sportster supermoto? No...seriously.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HARLEY-ME...id=277679490915

It certainly is original.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass


Uh, is that a full-size bike? The scale and proportions make it look like a pit bike

Scrapez
Feb 27, 2004



Phat_Albert posted:

Uh, is that a full-size bike? The scale and proportions make it look like a pit bike

Yes. The ad says you have to be at least 6'4" to ride it.

Edit: Requirements to ride:- 6' 4' tall or at least 15 stone!!! there is 15" Ground clearence under the sump.

Scrapez fucked around with this message at Oct 28, 2011 around 16:02

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Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.


Scrapez posted:

A Sportster supermoto? No...seriously.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HARLEY-ME...id=277679490915

It certainly is original.

16 inch rims...why. Seriously. 17s.

There are a few sportster trailies out there too, for those interested in that sort of thing.

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