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Seoinin posted:So what are the odds we're going to focus on the scratch-session kids now for a while before the original cast comes crashing in after a bunch of shenanigans that we aren't privy to? The next page will be "Enter Name"
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Oct 25, 2011 11:02
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Paul.Power posted:Not so sure about Dad since he's not a paradox clone (maybe he'll be exactly the same?) This is my theory. Dad is the one constant across all universes. Also, I'm not sure if this has come up yet but how did Dave and Rose end up wherever it was they were (I assume the same place as the trolls). I mean their bodies and beds were incinerated, where would they even spawn? Why there? Did Jade teleport them there? Did Dave do it? Aradia? That's the only part I don't understand yet. Also when can we stop using spoilers no one will be reading this who didn't watch the flash
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Oct 25, 2011 11:31
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Cracky posted:They will also all have dog ears. No! The only thing saving us so far was that they took traits from unappealing animals!
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Oct 25, 2011 12:02
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Idunn posted:Dave and Rose created the Green Sun, which is where the trolls were waiting for them. They didn't move so far as I can tell, time just isn't behaving properly, since the Green Sun exists outside regular time. Their beds don't need to be physically present after they died on them, I mean Aradia's would have been destroyed with Derse as well and she resurrected just fine. Arg I'm an idiot. I just watched the flash again and (I'm going to be a maverick here and not use spoilers) realized the two rose out of the sun, not through the portal thing that Bec Blanc came through. I guess with all the green and rising people I got confused or something. Anyways, everything on that front is clear now!
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Oct 25, 2011 12:53
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Oh, and everyone: start thinking of four-letter names. Also I think Jade's grandson's name starts with a J? (or perhaps, to stick with tradition, we will need ten-letter names)
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Oct 25, 2011 13:12
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On second thought, the new batch of babies might have the only (reasonable) name length left: five letters. Plus that's 10/2 so everyone wins. If that's the case, then Dave's bro's name is David.
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Oct 25, 2011 13:35
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What was Sollux again? Mage of... gently caress I forget
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Oct 25, 2011 14:21
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Well what the hell does doom look like?
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Oct 25, 2011 14:50
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Huitzil posted:The hoodie just has a map of E1M1 on it. There's a chip in the fabric that plays this when you press down on it. I'd buy it
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Oct 25, 2011 15:30
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FebrezeNinja posted:Decision was maybe the wrong word for me there. I was figuring that Terezi's power, predicting the outcomes of such things, would generally prevent the creation of betas. I was thinking about this. So far every timeline branch has been the result of a decision, so being able to see into people's thoughts is being able to see into alternate timelines. Yeah yeah, that was already addressed, but it still gives a unique use and theme to Terezi's abilities. What about Rose? Everything she has done so far is just about breaking the game and talking to horrorterrors. She watches the other kids and stuff, but her "seeing" didn't seem to go much into the future. Vriska, as the Thief of Light, was apparently able to steal luck, so there's some precedent for light = luck. So what will Rose see? The... outcome of coin flips? What's the "lighty" thing going to be? Also, all this talk about Aradia ignores what her function has been since she went god tier. She hosed off to the Outer Rim and started hanging out with ghosts. She was a psychopomp, a guide of the dead. Remember in the bubbles, showing the dead/dreaming important information? She's totally been a good guy, just somewhat removed from things. She seems to know what's going on, but her specialty is the afterlife. She's looking smug/serene because she knew Rose and Dave were coming... and then they did. I just don't see her being evil, it doesn't make any sense. Her realm is time, but just like the difference between Rose/Vriska or Rose/Terezi, she seems to have a specific theme - death and the afterlife. She's a psychopomp! They're never badguys. They just kinda stay at the periphery.
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Oct 26, 2011 04:55
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King of Solomon posted:Vriska's ability was actually to manipulate fortune. It's not that she's "lucky," it's that she can basically rig the game. If there's a coin flip, she can use her powers to make it flip the way she wants it every time, same with, say, a die roll. Right, that's what I meant with Vriska. And yeah, I was actually thinking that with Rose, but then why does she need to be god tier, when Terezi could do that normally? Higher levels, bred for the game, etc. but shouldn't Rose have something extra for being a god?
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Oct 26, 2011 06:23
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King of Solomon posted:She almost certainly does have something "extra" for being god tier. The thing is, we don't know exactly what that extra thing is yet. Well yeah of course. I was just asking about possible speculation? Her abilities are the most interesting to me, if only because they're the most subtle.
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Oct 26, 2011 07:19
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Oxxidation posted:Well, no one who counts.  So anyways, I was doing some re-reading and I thought of something. What if post-scratch (guardian version) John and Jade are already dead? You know, like Nanna and Grandpa. In which case maybe we'll end up with a Johnsprite and, er, another Jadesprite. And then maybe even a scene with Nannaquin and Grandpa Johnsprite~ Speaking of guardians, what the hell ever happened to Grandpa Harley? I mean, all the other guardians died, except Grandpa... who just kinda disappeared. e: clarity VVVVV I know that, should I use the term ancestor then? Their paradox slime relatives, whatever. And how he got there hasn't been explained yet so I assume it will be at some point. I thought maybe his fate in the game had been shown, and I just forgot, although your explanation makes a lot of sense and I hadn't thought of it before, so thanks! Starmaker fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 08:24
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing, which is why I brought it up. We're probably going to see more of him yet.
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Oct 26, 2011 08:53
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SynthOrange posted:Grandpa got shot to death, remember? Yeah, after he left the Medium and returned to Earth. But he hasn't done that yet, at least not that we've seen. And now that universe doesn't exist anymore, welp ^^^^^ Yeah probably, there seems to be symmetry in everything else. Only this one's really nice and hyper-loyal to the Queen. VVVVV Truly a rich, full life. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 09:18
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Dominic White posted:As we go into Act 6 now, it just ocurred to me that we won't have to worry about dry dialogue either side of the Jade/Rose divide - they've each got a Dave. Davesprite survived, after all, on the miniaturized Battlefield that they escaped with. Are you sure about that?
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Oct 26, 2011 09:51
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And here I thought Hussie killed him. Oh, Tensei! Amazing job on Cascade. I know you made it awhile ago, but it is probably my favorite song on the album, and there are a lot of really good songs on there. Thanks!
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Oct 26, 2011 12:33
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Alectai posted:That might explain why Jade's been making the Genesis Frog in spite of the session being null, and why she brought all five planets instead of just the four that she was obliged to take. To recreate the universe once Lord English has been dealt with. I can't imagine an entire act just focusing around fighting a single guy with super-powered protagonists. It'd be DHMK all over again. I think the main cast (or at least the kids) are too powerful now to be interesting enough to carry an entire act. Having the new universe, with a new game and new players, be the focal point for at least the beginning of this act seems like it's been pretty heavily foreshadowed! Plus it would really jive with Hussie's style to switch views at a dramatically heavy point. I would be very surprised if we didn't spend any length of time on a new session. It just... wouldn't make any sense, in the story or as a narrative, not to. Plus it would really be in keeping with the rest of Homestuck if we had a much bigger story (defeating Lord English) being resolved inside a much smaller one (a new session with new players). Also, doesn't the scratch reset the whole universe? As in, basically recreate it? So wasn't Jack killing BSlick pretty much a moot point since it was going to end anyways (and be reset)? I mean I was under the impression the old universe was done for regardless, I was pretty sure the scratch reset everything, not just the session! (Ok Jack killing BSlick isn't a moot point at all, since it created the Green Sun, but you know what I mean). ^^^^^ Andrew outright stated SBURB (or SGRUB or whatever) is how universes reproduce. I really have no idea where anyone got the idea that these are the only sessions? There's been absolutely no evidence, inside the story or out, that this would be the case. These are important sessions of course, which is why the story is focused on them, but I really don't see why they would the first, last, or only ones 
Starmaker fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 18:55
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Actually that would really explain why a supposedly null session was able to make a new universe frog. They aren't creating a new universe, just remaking an old one. And this time without a horrible tumor. But... what did the scratch do then? If it doesn't in itself reset the universe, then all it did was end the session which... doesn't really seem that impressive. e: Oh wait, I see what you're saying. That'd make sense but then, again, what did the scratch actually accomplish? Nothing, I guess? That plan just didn't go through? And I was all excited to see the adventures of lil' Bro Starmaker fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 19:06
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SpaceDrake posted:I'm surprised there isn't more discussion of the confirmation of the fact that Jade really did inherit all the powers (all of them) when she went Dogtier: she's got full Space abilities, full Sprite abilities, and full First Guardian abilities. She is literally the single most powerful character in the entire comic now. She could probably throw down with Scratch or Noir and win. This is exactly what I was saying earlier. Story-wise, everything seems to be going full-tilt into a new universe. Also, that note J sent? That is totally Grandpa. I mean, come on, fistifuffs? SpaceDrake posted:I'm sort of sad that Hussie feels he has to explain so much, though. Are the majority of his readers really that dense? I'm not sure if they're dense so much as just not as actively following the comic. Some people have other things they need to do, or maybe they just aren't as in love with it as others? That's not to say that some fans aren't incredibly dumb. I was so frustrated with people accusing Hussie of making his insert too important, or that he was going to. This whole yellow yard thing was the most elegant way of telling them to gently caress off, and I love Hussie for it. Keep on rocking, you magnificent bastard. e: it just occurred to me that we're going to have to put up with Grandpa/Mom and Bro/Nanna shipping now. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 10:41
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And putting a sword through his chest
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Oct 27, 2011 19:25
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I'm somewhat confused about Lord English. Wasn't he explained, way back at his introduction, to be the destroyer of universes? Like a sort of anti-Sburb? Why then would a universe have to be destroyed to bring him into it? I was under the impression that Scratch's machinations and the whole Green Sun thing were simply to create him, not to bring him into a universe. If, in order to bring the destroyer-of-universes into a universe you had to destroy it first wouldn't that, well, wouldn't that negate the whole loving point? I figured this brought LE into everywhere, and everywhen. Just like for the Green Sun. He's outside of time and blah blah but he still needed to have a point of creation. Like the Green Sun. So in the reset universe he'll already be there, he won't need to be "brought in." Because if he did (in a similar fashion) then their universe would have to end too and then he wouldn't do anything. So why is he the villain again? What is it he's supposed to do? Destroy the universe? Already done. Kill the horrorterrors and the Outer Ring? Apparently that's being done too. Is he supposed to end everything? All existence? It just doesn't make any sense to me how he could be a bigger threat than Doc Scratch, who already orchestrated the destruction of two universes. To bring in LE. To destroy the universe. e: I mean, I'm sure he is the villain, and there will be some very villainous reasons for him to be the villain, but why do we, right now, think that he is? What has he done? What is he supposed to do? What could possibly be more at stake than two universes. All universes? Then why do people keep talking about his entrance conditions? If these are the conditions to bring him into being each and every loving time than he is absolutely no threat in himself and only a threat as a motivator for others. Or is it just that he threatens the life of the four kids and six trolls? Okay, they're the protagonists and all, but being threatening to a group of teenagers isn't especially ominous. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 21:18
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Gabriel Pope posted:There are still some mysteries surrounding the whole process, but from what we've been told, it works like this: Right, now I remember what I it was I thought about Lord English before I made that post. He pops in at the end, then travels backwards to ensure his own creation, which is also the destruction of the universe, which is his purpose. It's a neat idea. Except It doesn't make for a particularly engaging end fight. The very fact he is present means he succeeds, among other things. The most apparent problem with him as a villain is that he doesn't do anything. I mean, why doesn't he just blow the universe up himself if he's so powerful? A masterful manipulator is an awesome villain, but it doesn't make for much of an end battle, you know? Plus if that's his whole MO then, like I said, he can't lose. Unless he already (and always will have) lost. In which case he won't be there. Which is why I think he might have only one point of creation/entrance? On the other hand, maybe Doc Scratch actually is Lord English, since he's the only one acting like it. But... that doesn't really jive with what he's been doing/saying. Yeah I get that he's not exactly trustworthy, but it doesn't really make sense, especially since he was created before the universes ended. Unless he was just trying to create the Green Sun, which he would need in order to exist and operate. So yeah, Lord English is really more of a tool than a character, he seems to really only exist as a motivator, in that he never actually seems to do anything himself directly. The kids will need something more interesting to fight then a background force, don't you think? (Lord English is the Green Sun) VVVV I mean, obviously the story isn't just going to end with the heroes winning because they fight better, or anything, but it is likely they'll have to fight something, whether it be Lord English or a minion. I'm just saying that, right now, if you think about it, LE is much more of a force than a person, more of a Man verse Nature than Man verse Man. Of course there's nothing wrong with that, I just think so far the discussion has been framing LE the wrong way. He's more of a malevolent force than a villain, in the traditional sense. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 21:51
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The thing about LE is that he was never in the kid's universe, and it wasn't his fault Jack was created or that their session had a tumor. That was Vriska and Karkat, respectively. We haven't seen Doc Scratch/LE directly manipulate their actions in those regards (unless forming all of Troll society counts, which I guess it might, but maybe not in the case of Karkat?) LE and Scratch pretty much just went with things as far as the kid's universe was concerned. While Scratch manipulated things to get the tumor to the Outer Rim, he didn't/couldn't do much with Jack, and it's more likely he had to work around him. So LE wasn't really directly responsible for the kid's universe's destruction, but he sure took advantage of it. Remember, Bec Noir was an atypical problem, and not the sort the scratch was usually used for. So it's hard to really say the game was designed specifically to help LE, because in this case it doesn't seem to be. And I don't know if LE will be in the reset universe either. It seems that some universes, at least, are free from him, and we know SBurb is supposed to create new universes, and you'd think they would be of the not inherently doomed variety. Like someone earlier mentioned, I always thought of the game and LE as separate, and LE just hijacks the game for his own designs. Or, who knows, maybe he made it after all. If Betty Crocker actually is the Alternain Empress (I can't believe I just wrote that) then she probably had an effect on getting Grandpa (and assumedly therefore Mom) involved in making the game. So maybe he did have an influence in their universe. And then maybe the game has been a tool of his all along, to ensure there are always more universes to eat. Man I don't know, LE is a weird subject because we know so little about him. But the way the story has always worked we can probably piece together the answers with the clues we have. Doesn't mean anyone will, though, but we can try...? (LE might, as Scratch said, just be a part of the system, like entropy personified or something, as much a part of the universe as the game is. But if that's the case, how/why would the kids even defeat him? This is my problem, I don't know why he's the villain.)
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Oct 28, 2011 00:39
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They're palemates!  I guess moirallegience is different than being a best friend? I dunno, reading it after the fact it doesn't actually sound that contradictory. If it's a romance thing then of course he's sentimental about it, and there's a chance he's still confused about how he feels (oh god troll romance talk). And the shithead thing was probably about hugging a murderer. It's just a troll thing, humans wouldn't get it. e: (actually when I first read it I was pretty sure Karkat hadn't killed him. Karkat doesn't kill anyone. So I'd assumed the past-tense was just to throw people off, and was attributed to some technicality) ex2combo: I just realized every surviving troll has killed someone. Aradia killed Vriska, Terezi also killed Vriska, Sollux (unintentionally) killed Aradia, Kanaya killed Eridan, and Gamzee killed Nepeta and Equius. Every troll except Karkat. Karkat doesn't kill anyone, ever 
Starmaker fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 14:25
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Mazerunner posted:Nah, I get what they've done mechanically, what I don't get is what Hussie's doing with them, I guess. Remember WV was initially introduced solely as an in-story way of getting rid of player commands. Or maybe you weren't reading it yet at that point in which, ok, that's why he was introduced. Hussie was getting tired of that mechanic and wanted to get rid of it (John's message box has been destroyed). And then he brought it back in. And then got rid of it permanently. So the Exiles were only brought in to deal with a mechanic that doesn't even exist anymore, and they likely didn't have any grand character arc. To be honest I don't think he really knows what to do with them. Or, he didn't. He's really good at dealing with unexpected story elements and tying them into a larger narrative. He probably came up with something for them to do awhile ago, but is still having some trouble tying them in. PM is obviously important now, and I'm really hoping WV isn't dead here (I like the idea of him getting Jack's ring). Who knows where they go from there, but having two death-angels on the kids' side wouldn't be bad (the Exiles have been shown to care for the kids, so they'd probably team up.) As for WQ, WK, and their plans to blow up the stations... I don't know, maybe a red herring? I think the reason the kid's exiles' story arc is less satisfying than the others is because they were always sorta shoe-horned in and unexpected, and so Hussie never fully knew what to do with them.
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Nov 3, 2011 07:09
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Factory Factory posted:One thing I've been wondering is, why the yellow yard? The Yellow Yard was, in my mind, Hussie very elegantly giving the finger to those fans who whined about his self insert. Remember when he explained it? Remember when people kept complaining about the frequency of his self-insert and the inevitability of his interference? Those people pissed me off so much. The self-inserts were goofy little asides simply used for recaps. He never did anything or interacted with the main story in any way. But he decided he was going to, just to shut those fuckers up. I'm pretty certain those two windows were always facing each other, either directly or separated by a different amount. He moved them to being a yard apart. The result of this? "The heroes will coexist with me, the author, for the span of three feet, and while traveling very quickly, for the duration of three nanoseconds." I don't think this will have any effect on the story. I don't think LE will teleport onto their ship (he just showed us that scene for a timeframe on when LE grabbed his coat), I don't think they're going to fly around his room, I don't think it will make a single lick of difference. Why? Because Hussie only did this to troll idiots. It's a joke, and nothing more. He wouldn't have had any influence, but because of people saying he would he had three nanosecond's worth. A real amount, but so small, and so meaningless, that only sperglords could get upset by it. If this does have any actual influence on the story (the windows weren't touching, so Jade's plan wouldn't have worked, or LE jumps onto their ship whereas he otherwise couldn't have) then this would no longer be a joke. No, it'd be a prank, and no one likes to be pranked. e: explaining jokes ruins them Starmaker fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Nov 3, 2011 |
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Nov 3, 2011 11:06
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I know nobody cares, and it was a pretty obvious conclusion, but god dammit I never get to do this, so - called it:Starmaker posted:The next page will be "Enter Name" Well, close enough. I'm actually pretty excited that all that heavy foreshadowing wasn't misleading. This seems like the perfect way to flesh out the guardian characters, as well as allow the story to revisit a lot of the story elements and mechanics from the first chapter that have been left aside lately. I'm also pretty happy that I was right about Dad - he is a universal constant. I'm still calling a Johnsprite though, because Jane's Grandpa is totally dead. I mean he has to be. Poor Scratch John  I wonder if Jake's guardian will be an omnipotent cat. VVVVVV It seems pretty obvious that the Scratch versions aren't paradox clones. And as we already know a universe where the players didn't make themselves is LE's calling card. So I guess he's already there and their universe is already doomed. Oh well! Starmaker fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 12:45
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It's possible, but I figured since the only other scratch we knew of, the Troll one - which only had the ectobiology in one session, not both - that this would mirror that. Nothing's confirmed or anything, obviously, I just thought it was a pretty strong hint, that and the mention of LE's calling card. Or maybe we will get more babies. That's fun too
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Nov 13, 2011 13:44
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Comic posted:All sessions have ectobiology, it is what characterizes them as the players for the session are created through it. You've got some wires crossed somewhere I think. Doc Scratch posted:Though they could not recognize it for the bad omen it was, this session was not the one in which they had been spawned. Such is the symptom of a subtle glitch affecting certain sessions, an error designed to trigger an unfathomable cascade of misfortune throughout paradox space. This glitch is the calling card of the one I serve. It is the discreet, gentlemanly manner in which he reserves his place in a universe for later visitation. From here. I dunno, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like they didn't make themselves. I don't know where they came from, but I guess that's what makes it a glitch. My jump in reasoning is that the same thing will happen to the kids, only in reverse this time (so the second version has the glitch). It might not! But that bit about LE makes me think there's more to this than a simple throw-away line. Plus it would, you know, make LE an immediate and apparent threat to the kids, whereas right now they don't even know he exists.
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Nov 13, 2011 14:23
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I'm really glad I got into MSPA back when PS was still going. I remember waiting a month or whatever for Homestuck to come out and being mildly perplexed by the rather substantial shift in setting. I also remember the MSPA forums filled with complaints about how Homestuck was slow and people responding that it couldn't possibly become as epic as PS (heh) without a slow build-up first, and to just be patient. No one had any idea what Homestuck would end up being back then. It's kinda funny to think about.
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Nov 15, 2011 08:14
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Nah, I get that. It's why I said I was glad to have been reading when it was still being made. It would be hard to go back to after Homestuck, but that's only if you're expecting something like Homestuck. PS was a silly webcomic made just to be funny and whatever. I was really impressed by it at the time, the way he weaved user submissions into a (somewhat) coherent plot, but Homestuck is really a completely different thing.
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Nov 15, 2011 09:29
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Holy poo poo, there is a thirteenth troll. Edit: Ophiucus is the (sorta) thirteenth sign of the zodiac. His sign looks like a U. He's often associated with medicine and protection from poison/snakes - thus the caduceus (plus I think that might also be a symbol associated with the constellation). The Constellation has also been described as trampling Scorpio under his feet, so that's a thing too. What I'm saying is, UU is gonna have a thing for snakes. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Nov 15, 2011 |
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Nov 15, 2011 13:05
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:Oh also I don't remember if this was mentioned but the last few things uU says imply the Sassacre book in Jane's possession is in fact the one from the pre-Scratch kid session, with Nanna's inscription. This is probably what it is. But John landed with that book, didn't he? Which means he passed it along to his granddaughter, making it very old indeed. I wonder what she thought of that inscription. Also, if Bro is the Hero of Heart, that would only leave Jake with Hero of... Hope. But... Eridan... bleaurgh
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Nov 15, 2011 15:07
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Well whoever UU is, if she's a troll then she's definitely a new one. Different font, different symbol. Remember all the current trolls got their signs from their ancestors, so they likely had those in the pre-scratch universe, too, if this is some weird mobius reach-around. I guess it could be the Signless, because, you know, signless, but I still think there's something else going on here... Maybe this is the theoretical single-player SBURB. Go UU, you can do it. All on your own. (Maybe this is a different troll from the same Alternia but... got the game somehow. Or something. Doesn't explain why she's so nice though.) Wait, no, UU is Betty Crocker. Okay, no, I have no idea what the gently caress. e: ^^^^^^^ seven?
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Nov 15, 2011 18:41
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Prison Warden posted:Heart is one of those ones we dont even have any hints to what it does whatsoever though. I bet heart just allows the hero to try really god drat hard and do the impossible. Oh gently caress Bro is actually going to be Kamina isn't he? e: Fagtastic posted:Genuine mystery. Fresh puzzles. I think we've been trying to put the various pieces of the puzzle together for so long now that we don't really know how to react to actual mystery. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 15, 2011 |
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Nov 15, 2011 20:49
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Guys Guys I'm pretty sure Betty Crocker is the Condesce
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Nov 16, 2011 07:33
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It's pretty subtle, but if you really pay attention you can see some clues here and there. Like, for instance, the Betty Crocker logo is red. The Condesce's ship is also red! 
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Nov 16, 2011 07:58
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I thought Jake was Equius I'm so confused now e: Everyone is Equius Starmaker fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Nov 16, 2011 |
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Nov 16, 2011 08:02
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Idunn posted:Mom being a genuinely kind person and Bro being genuinely into weird poo poo would be the best "twist" yet. Dave idolized his brother, and was constantly imitating him. He thought his bro's terrible interests were ironic so he tried to develop his own ironic sensibilities so he could measure up. If Dave talks to a completely sincere and unironic Bro his worldview would be shattered. He'd... he'd have to develop his own personality! Also, Lil' Bro will think Dave is completely sincere in his interests, and will try to be as enthusiastic and genuine about liking terrible things as he can, to measure up. Also also, Hussie is really good at writing characters who have terrible interests or bizarre flaws and making them really endearing and likable. I fully expect Bro to be as creepy and weird as we suspect, but still as awesome as we know.
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Nov 16, 2011 09:26
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