The Toyobaru thread: *insert stupid comparison here*

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The Toyobaru thread: *insert stupid comparison here*

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

DEUCE SLUICE posted:

I really dig the interior.

I love how the heated seat switches are the exact same as my 07 WRX.

R....r..red interior lighting? Someone with some actual loving sense made this! I love it.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2011 18:36

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# ¿ May 21, 2013 12:24

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Cygni posted:

I get the distinct feeling of dread that this thing is gonna be a sales dud in the medium-term because of its awkward performance/price in relation to the Genesis Coupe, Z, and V6 stang/camaro.

And then Toyota will use it as a market sign to turn their entire range into various sized hybrid avalons. Get it in any color, as long as its 'champagne'. Subaru will use it as a market sign to go full bore into 4x4 territory and build the impreza on the topkick platform. Anyone who drives stick will be forced into camps.

The writing is on the wall!

This is like some AI horror story.

Please Subaru it's bad enough that the new Outback is bigger than the original Tribeca. Please stop. You're hurting us

# ¿ Nov 30, 2011 21:46

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

BoostCreep posted:

I find it interesting that the acc belt on the front of the engine is different between the two engines. Looks like the far engine has the belt going straight from the alternator across the top of the engine while the near engine dips down in the middle. I don't see why they would change the belt routing just to add a turbo. There also seem to be a lot of little differences between the two engines. The aluminum spacer on the intake manifold on the far engine, the changes to the timing belt cover/case area, etc.

At the risk of sounding like a moron, here are my thoughts:

- The engine could be for the new WRX or other Subaru and not intended for the BRZ.
- The engine could be supercharged or even twin charged? Why else would they need to change the belt routing?

Looks like they did it to make room for the intercooler piping. It's hard to tell from that picture but the alternator looks to be moved more towards the center on the far engine so it doesn't need that extra idler pulley. Look how the dipstick on the near engine almost lines up dead center with the alternator pulley but is well to the side of the alternator on the far engine.

edit: actually what j3rkweed says makes more sense, the idler pulley is to move the belt out of the way of where the intake would be on the N/A engine whereas on the turbo the throttle body points towards the cabin.

Sudo Echo fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2011 around 23:20

# ¿ Nov 30, 2011 23:17

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Powershift posted:

heh, too easy.

Fuel: Premium Unleaded

There's your 12.5:1.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2011 06:49

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Nodoze posted:

Yes, it's a Lexus 6-speed

Oh thank goodness. Subaru has some really awful transmissions, auto and manual.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2011 18:49

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

DEUCE SLUICE posted:

The intake tees off into a cylinder with a sealed speaker cone kind of deal, and there's a hose piping the sound from the other side of the cone into the cabin.

On one hand, the car certainly seems like it sounds awesome inside, but I can't help but think it's restrictive.

What's wrong with just opening the window if you want to hear the engine?

# ¿ Dec 6, 2011 04:11

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

DEUCE SLUICE posted:

The M5 one is played over the speakers in the car, which is pathetic.

The BRZ is all mechanical. It's a vibrating membrane at the end of a hose.

At least it's on the intake so when the membrane eventually gets brittle and splits in 10 years it doesn't asphyxiate the driver.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2011 04:39

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Skyssx posted:

Toyota's electronic climate controls are very good. You set your temperature and then pretty much ignore it. There's a photosensitive eye on the dash as well as a frost sensor under the wipers and a per side air temperature sender. On sunny days, it directs colder air through the dash and defrost to keep your upper body cool in the sun. Then balances the total air temp at night. If its frozen on the wipers, or goes through a defrost program. It generally is $1200 in parts alone, though.

And how many more points of failure are in a system like this compared to regular controls? To me this stuff is just extra poo poo that is going to break and be a pain to diagnose and then be expensive to fix. Bonus points if they integrate the loving controls with the stereo making putting in a non-poo poo head unit impossible. At least they've started to include aux-in.

Not to mention that the system is never perfect. Toyota has good engineers but even the best can't predict every single situation. It is going to be wrong sometimes, guaranteed. When it is wrong it is the most frustrating poo poo. It's just another layer of abstraction to what I really want. I know what vents and temps I want and don't need some faceless engineer to decide for me.

The point is that not everyone wants it and options are good.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2011 02:54

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

ROFLBOT posted:

Its electronic, there are no "extra parts" to break (unless you count resistors and microprocessors, etc)

You'd think this but the system is still very physical. Sensors can and do break, wires get old and the insulation decays, and connectors are always a weak point. Sure it's way better than any of the old vacuum logic Cadillac systems, but it's still more complex than standard controls. What happens when the little moisture sensor goes out and it starts running the defrost all the time? What about the little potentiometers for the dials? It's just got more way to break and since it's more complex it'll be harder to diagnose. That's just the way these things work. All that just so it can blast me with full A/C whenever I start the car because the ambient temperature was 5� F over the setting. No thanks.

Factory HIDs are awesome though, but gently caress aftermarket ones and the people who install them forever. No it's not a cop, just some idiot who can't adjust his cutoff because he stuffed HIDs in a halogen housing!

# ¿ Dec 7, 2011 06:12

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

oRenj9 posted:

At least with a modern setup, the ECU software can tell you exactly which sensor is broken. Plus, depending on the sensor in question, it may be able to fall back on open-loop operation until the issue is resolved. This system isn't perfect, but I'll take a modern electronic setup over an RX-7 vacuum hose clusterfuck any day of the week.

Maybe I'm just cynical but I don't see the HVAC controller having a user-accessible diagnostic interface like OBD-II. Maybe a dealer could use specialized equipment but that's about it. What would open-loop operation be on an HVAC system? Safety says it would just run the defrost, since that's how a standard setup is designed to fail. Just like I said.

In a car whose entire purpose is light weight and handling not offering a stripper model is just plain dumb, that's really all there is to it.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2011 06:32

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

kimbo305 posted:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evo...subaru_brz.html

quote:

Anything else I need to know?

The base model (which we didn't drive) sounds like it might be a bit of a star � it will come with 16 inch wheels in place of the 17s on our test car, which may well work better on British roads. Its lack of toys and gizmos (Subaru is even threatening to give it black door handles in place of body-coloured ones) could suit the minimalist nature of the car.

Oh Subaru

# ¿ Dec 7, 2011 07:35

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

ROFLBOT posted:

If wire and connector decay are issues for you over the realistic lifetime of your vehicle then i suggest you change brands. I work on my 20 year-old Toyotas all the time and about the worst ive seen is some brittle plastic on wiring directly on the engine

I've seen it on Toyotas and Subarus, UV is a loving bitch. And potentiometers do break all the time, ever had a stereo with a crackly volume knob that made one speaker cut out?

Really the whole argument is pointless, all that I meant to say was that it's more complicated and expensive with no benefit to me personally. Subaru looks to be offering the stripper model anyways so who gives a poo poo! More options = better.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2011 06:20

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

bull3964 posted:

The fun part is, it will probably be literally the same system with just different switchgear that doesn't show the auto settings and the subtraction of one or two sensors from the cabin.

Added "luxury crap" is added because it's basically a no cost add anymore.

For example, cruise control. If throttle is already drive by wire, adding a few subroutines in to maintain a certain speed and a few switches to control it is trivial and costs virtually nothing more than the raw material of the switchgear plastic.

Same with the climate control. Fan speed and blend doors will already be computer controlled because it's a cheaper and more reliable system than vacuum actuators and physical linkages between the controls and the rest of the system. So, you just add in a few temp sensors and add the control logic to the computer to maintain temp and you have auto climate control. 98% of the work is already done for manual control, you just have to add the extra inputs and logic.

The same with navigation. The most expensive component for that will be the LCD touch screen and and the licensing of maps. I wouldn't be surprised if GPS is integrated on the SoC of a lot of factory radios nowadays, whether or not they actually have a navigation system. So, it's cheaper for them to use a single component when they build the cars and just give navigation to all.

People are operating under a faulty premise that not including these items would lower the price of the car when you are probably looking at MAYBE a $200 cost to include the stuff.

In all reality, they probably have to add stuff like this in to justify the higher price that the engineering behind the car dictates. If Subaru determines that they need to charge around ~$25k to make a profit on this project, increasing the cost by a few hundred dollars and adding features that people expect at that price point makes the car more marketable.

You're probably right about this, it does make a lot of sense but automatic climate control is still annoying as gently caress. Trying to get just plain fresh vent air on them is always an exercise in frustration. If there's really not much difference in how the system is actually operated and it's just the controls, why not give me the controls that don't suck?

Built-in nav is even worse for the reasons already mentioned, it's just a shittier, slower, out of date version of the same GPS that everyone has in their smart phone. Am I that crazy for not wanting a bright LCD screen in my field of vision all the time? My ideal head unit is a volume knob with an iPod dock. I had a rental Prius and that big LCD screen was awful driving at night, even with the brightness turned all the way down. Saab is probably the only company who ever got interior lighting right.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2011 19:30

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Cat Terrist posted:

Okay, I see the point about nav systems, yes they suck and yes they should be ripped out and tossed as loving far as possible. Mobile phones usually have embedded GPS and maps so gently caress car based ones.

But HVAC controls? REALLY? Look, it's actually LIGHTER than manual controls and the components that Subaru put in for this are also very, very light so WTF are you on about? Fresh air? Flick button, little lightweight motor goes BREEEEEE and opens the fresh air vent and lightweight fan gives you up to 20 preset settign of air velocity or there is a lightweight button that sets off a tiny ROM that ....

Oh gently caress, I cant continue. I'm a weight and feature nazi but seriously HVAC???? SUBARU HVAC??? There is absolutly wrong with it at all.

I haven't used Subaru's climate control but the Mercedes one I've had to deal with is incomprehensible and loving terrible. Turn off the A/C? Oh that's the "EC" button. Vent air? Good luck. If you turn the fan to zero it also turns on recirc for some incomprehensible reason, and if you scroll the temp knobs to the coldest it doesn't do poo poo. Perfectly happy to blame ZE GERMANS for that poo poo though.

Maybe the Subaru system is better, I'll have to try it before I'll get mad about it.

edit: Subarus already come with a Paint Delete option, just drive one on the highway for a couple years (not bitter)

# ¿ Dec 8, 2011 22:14

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

bull3964 posted:

The Subaru automatic climate control is easy.

It's the same 3 dials as the manual control. On both the fan speed dial and vent selection dial there is an "Auto" selection available. The temperature dial has numbered degrees on it instead the blue to red shading.

If you want to set things manually, it's used exactly the same as the normal manual control. If you want to do things automatically, you just set the first two dials to auto and set your temp.

Ah that sounds reasonable, never trust Germans to design something simple and easy to use

So to get just vent air you can just turn the fan off and set the temp to the coldest like normal?

# ¿ Dec 8, 2011 22:31

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

bidikyoopi posted:

I love this car but I don't know if I'll fit. I'm 4'9" and 90lbs, can I sit on phonebooks and tie blocks to my sneakers? Carseat chat

are those rear lights going to be on the US model? I didn't think we had rear fogs.

Pretty sure those are the reverse lights, the new minis have similar placement. Those tail lights are ugly as hell though, I thought Subaru had finally gotten over the Altezza light thing.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2012 23:42

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Cat Terrist posted:

Prius is more likely a loss leader marketing gimmick - we can think Corollas and Camrys for the money.

It was when they first started it due to R&D costs but you'd better believe they're making money on it now, just take a look at all the different variations that are starting to emerge like the Prius V. They bet on economies of scale making it profitable and by all appearances they bet correctly.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2012 00:07

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

kimbo305 posted:

In EPA testing, is there any rule about trying to shift when the light comes on? Like compulsory self-imposed short shifting.

Yep, if there's a light the EPA testers obey it completely.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2012 20:18

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

kimbo305 posted:

Given how commodity LEDs are, what could even count as a technical one?

It hurts your night vision the least, red is the easiest color for the human eye to see. All interior lights should be red at night.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2012 17:56

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Lowclock posted:

I'd take red LEDs over those gross greenish VFDs any day of the week.

The worst is early 00's VW purple interior lighting. It's quite possibly the worst color I have ever seen used for backlighting, it's incredibly difficult to read and ruins your night vision.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2012 19:04

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Even though it would be heavier and not as stiff, a convertible BRZ would sell like drat hotcakes in California. I would never put the top up, ever.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2012 03:11

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

BoostCreep posted:

http://newportconvertible.com/april...rz-convertible/

Apparently they've contracted this company to do the conversion.

Posting this inline because nobody clicks links

Yes.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2012 03:52

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# ¿ May 21, 2013 12:24

Sudo Echo: Mar 1, 2011

Oshata Hyotesti posted:

Why would someone want to ruin this car by making it a convertible?

How would it be ruined? The miata and S2000 are awesome as hell, what makes this so different? Sure it wouldn't be as good as your AutoX car or something but as a daily driver it'd be fantastic.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2012 01:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The Toyobaru thread: *insert stupid comparison here*