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I like the fact that Togami did in fact expect everyone to go along with his statement that Mondo did it should the other people's investigations fail. Arrogance sky high, knowledge of how people will act drat low. It sounds like he really didn't have any actual evidence other than his testimony lined up to exonerate himself. I also love how Kirigiri sounds almost disgusted as she addresses him:  I don't really want to know what goes inside your head. I don't want to, but...Based on the next to nothing we know about the mole my bet is Kirigiri who is being compelled by Monobear in some way. I hope that isn't the case though. Btw, social wise I presume we won't be able to talk to Kiyotaka for a while... Mondo and Chihiro 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 16:53 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 19:47 |
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Now that another trial is over, I'll give my thoughts. I didn't engage in speculation during the trial since I knew there could and would be twists. The way that it worked out was fine and made sense within the context of the story. The backstory to Mondo and Chihiro is pretty standard. Chihiro did seem to be the opposite of Persona 4's Kanji. The way expectations of strength weakness were played between the two was well done. I didn't really enjoy how Monobear lectured on how intent was formed. For the most part I thought intent was being established well during the trial. All Monobear really needed to do was explain the two's secret and the characters could have filled in the gaps. I do think Togami's reason for changing the crime scene wasn't very well established. His reasoning seemed to be formed after the fact, as though the game writer wanted to throw the player for a loop but had a hard time establishing why. "Oh yeah, I changed the crime scene to know who to really worry about," just doesn't sit well especially since he already picked out Naegi as a threat.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 16:54 |
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orenronen posted:Extra translation note: I can't belive it's not Mondo!
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 16:55 |
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Walterion posted:I can't belive it's not Mondo! I don't want to believe it's Mondo.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:00 |
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Orfeo posted:I don't want to believe it's Mondo.  I... I won't believe it...
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:04 |
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Did we already call everyone on being the inside man? If so when he's revealed we can say we figured it out right from the beginning and be all smug about it  e: This execution was somewhat dumb. turned into butter by centrifugal force? Really? Loved monobear's corncob though :] Mecharasputin fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 17:08 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:06 |
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ATM Machine posted:Reading too deep or clever wording to the identity of our undercover person? Asahina, huh? I want it to be Naegi. And it does make a certain degree of sense if you change his motive for solving the cases from "wants to live" to "wants to prolong the game." Edit: orenronin posted:Extra translation note: That's hosed up. And why is it "double the fat?" Keeshhound fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 17:09 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:07 |
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orenronen, you already checked your Private Messages? With the speed this thread moves, you more than likely missed my post.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:09 |
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Mecharasputin posted:Did we already call everyone on being the inside man? If so when he's revealed we can say we figured it out right from the beginning and be all smug about it Everyone is the inside man. Monobear has approached everyone individually in secret and pretended to take them into his confidence, so everybody has a sense of false confidence from thinking they have their own special "in." It's all an elaborate ruse to add extra despair when Monobear eventually betrays and kills them. Remember Junko's perplexed dying lines? She thought she was the "mole" too.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:10 |
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Mecharasputin posted:e: This execution was somewhat dumb. turned into butter by centrifugal force? Really? I guess Mondo really was a tiger in human form.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:13 |
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Major Heavy Rain spoilers below: I think that so far Heavy Rain was the only game that handled a "main character is the antagonist" twist well. Before I even started the game I made a joking comment that I bet one of the playable characters is the murderer, yet still I was taken aback when the killer's identity was revealed. For all the faults that game had it was all worth it for the "Wait, why the hell is he burning all the evidence we've been collecting thus far... oh poo poo! Oh my loving god!" moment I do hope we get to have a similar experience watching this lp (thats why I'm avoiding reading most of the speculation), unfortunately no such luck thus far:/ Gabriel Pope posted:Everyone is the inside man. Monobear has approached everyone individually in secret and pretended to take them into his confidence, so everybody has a sense of false confidence from thinking they have their own special "in." It's all an elaborate ruse to add extra despair when Monobear eventually betrays and kills them. Remember Junko's perplexed dying lines? She thought she was the "mole" too. Ok, right now you've spoiled every single session of the Paranoia RPG I run thus far;p
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:15 |
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I don't think Kirigiri is the mole just because I can't imagine her being willing to get the kills rolling. I'm guessing it's Celes. She seems to be playing both sides of the card, trying to get people to chill out and yet being totally suspicious and seemingly willing to kill people. It fits the bill without being too obvious.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:18 |
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El Generico posted:I don't think Kirigiri is the mole just because I can't imagine her being willing to get the kills rolling. I'm guessing it's Celes. She seems to be playing both sides of the card, trying to get people to chill out and yet being totally suspicious and seemingly willing to kill people. It fits the bill without being too obvious. That's why I think that if it is her Monobear has got something on her. This would most likely be tied to the thing she has lost mentioned towards the start of the game. One thing to bear in mind is that the collaborator would be executed after the crime. Kirigiri is just a "one of the more likely people" bet at the moment. Things which put her higher up the list are the ellipses during the conversation, her obvious competence and access to inside knowledge like the map and the fact that we know nothing of her background. [edit] Also, this shows more sign of Monobear's behind the scene meddling. Despite the facade he maintains in front of the student he wasn't confident that they would start the despair train and that it would keep on rolling without his help. Munin fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 17:31 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:27 |
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I have to say, I'm not clear on how we can have someone "get the kills started." There's two outcomes to that: They get caught in which case they die. They don't get caught in which case everyone else dies in the first round. Unless the person involved in a very unusual type of suicidal, it seems off.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:36 |
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Mecharasputin posted:Did we already call everyone on being the inside man? If so when he's revealed we can say we figured it out right from the beginning and be all smug about it That's how this thread rolls. Don't force us to change our ways. 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:40 |
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ImpAtom posted:I have to say, I'm not clear on how we can have someone "get the kills started." Monobear could fake their death, or he could've promised that he would fake their death.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:42 |
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Mondo took that execution in a very bro-like manner. Even though he killed because he was weak in mind, his resignation to his fate was a nice contrast to Leon's freak out. I'm reading this thread on a phone and occasionally pics get screwed up/reassigned. At the end of the Monobear/traitor discussion was one of Sakura's portraits - and completely forgetting about the phone thing, I flipped out.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:45 |
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Munin posted:Kirigiri is just a "one of the more likely people" bet at the moment. Things which put her higher up the list are the ellipses during the conversation, her obvious competence and access to inside knowledge like the map and the fact that we know nothing of her background. I don't think the ellipses are very telling; if you were a plant, wouldn't you act differently when talking to your boss than you would with the people you're supposed to be infiltrating?
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:45 |
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Monobear didn't reveal the 'everyone wrong gets executed' rule until the first trial had begun, right? The plan could have been to announce it after Trial 1, when there's been one graduation or execution. And for all Monobear SAYS if they get it wrong they all die, he seems to sort to execute an innocent, and let everyone else think they were right. The inside killer doesn't get to graduate, but does get to keep on killing. Is Syo didn't have a 'type', I'd accuse the Super-High-School-Level Serial Killer. As it is, maybe we have a SHSL Hitman present? I can see Kirigiri being one of those, actually, even if she isn't the spy. SHSL Detective fits too, but seems a little too obvious. Therefore I predict the spy to be Asahina. It's always the one you least suspect.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:47 |
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Monobear put Mondo on a version of the Euthanasia Coaster. That's messed up. The butter at the end, too... ick. And also makes the art from this post: orenroren posted:All the more disturbing. The death scenes in this game make me shiver.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:49 |
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So, originally we thought that Togami was just kinda stupid for botching up the frame job when he was the original murderer. But, as it turns out, Togami is astonishingly stupid for framing someone else to find out who was the best detective. His plan to out the murderer if Mondo hadn't blabbed about the blue jersey was just tell the truth? How would that have worked? So the corpse was strung up with Togami's extension cord, using information that only Togami and Syo had. Togami announced his intention to kill, and had access to both male and female changing rooms. And I think we all agree that Syo's alibi is airtight. I just love stabbing people~! ...regardless, the evidence firmly points at Togami.  This has stopped being interesting. I doctored the crime scene, true, but only to see which of you was the most skilled detective. And as it turns out, you're all just foolish commoners. When I kill one of you, none of you will see through my cunning ruse. You're not the killer? Then who is? Mondo Oowada. Aniki? Impossible! To make such a decisive statement--you must be very certain. What's your evidence? I saw him! ......death penalty. Death penalty. Dibs on the death penalty! Upupupu!The only way his malarkey makes sense is if Togami knew for a fact that Mondo'd slip up and tip his hand, but Togami couldn't have, and didn't play a part in making the jerseys a topic of conversation. Clearly one of the secret files in the library was the game's script, because Togami was about to lose the trial, up until the point where everyone in the trial inexplicably lost interest in him. He's not clever, he's not playing the long con, he's a goddamn clumsy narrative element designed to act as suspiciously as possible to be a red herring. The difference between this and the distraction characters in Phoenix Wright is that those trial-bending lunatics always had strong motivations both for whatever it was they were doing in the murder scene and why they were lying at trial. If Togami wanted to see who the best detective was he could have just paid attention to who solved the crime without trying to frame himself. I'm super mad! Mad about video games! Also a million fungos was a super horrifying and a hard act to follow but magically turning into a lunchables wasn't a very compelling death. Mecharasputin posted:Major Heavy Rain spoilers below: Yeah, no. That game lied to the players too, in that you heard thoughts that made no sense to come from the murderer. Also worst dad had completely pointless and unexplained literal psychic powers and had fuge episodes in which he folded origami cranes before the killings impacted his life, and everyone ignored the fact that he was literally hospitalized in a coma during several of the killings and still thought he was the prime suspect. The freelance I'm grumbling about Dangen Ronpa here, but it's still pretty great. Heavy Rain was super terrible. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 17:54 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:52 |
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Poor poor Ishimaru.  I hope he doesn't die/murder/suicide the next chapter, though with the state he's in it seems the most likely.And interesting, 16th student? I hope they're not a really dumb character or anything. Since Chihiro was actually a guy the student should be a girl so the gender ratio would be even, but that's just a complete guess. I also feel the mole is probably Kirigiri because she's all ???? and I don't know, she seems to have the most knowledge of Monobear and the game. Why is she all question marks anyway. Time to see Mondo and Chihiro's conversations now I guess. edit: Oh and Mondo's execution scene was less intense than I thought it'd be, more "silly". Though him being turned into butter at the end was pretty gross. cubivore fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 17:56 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:52 |
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q =/= e
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:53 |
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Keeshhound posted:I don't think the ellipses are very telling; if you were a plant, wouldn't you act differently when talking to your boss than you would with the people you're supposed to be infiltrating? That's why I didn't say "Ellipses! It must be her!". I can also see how you would be a bit more hesitant and guarded when conversing with a presumed homicidal, manipulative, maniac... That said, unless how he behaves in public is a total persona, I do think it rules out Togami. Asahina would be a perfect plant. Munin fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 18:01 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:53 |
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I'm actually curious if Chihiro is going to continue to be relevant to the storyline or not. I remember him claiming to have met Naegi before, at the beginning of the game. The question is: how, and where? Unless that's just part of a bigger future thing
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:56 |
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Munin posted:That's why I didn't say "Ellipses! It must be her!". Both Togami and Asahina would do a pretty good job of playing on your expectations. But I remain resolute: Naegi is the plant, he just doesn't know it. Syo has DID, but that doesn't mean that Naegi can't have it too.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:58 |
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cubivore posted:Poor poor Ishimaru. orenronen posted:
Well, Monobear is apparently a girl, so I'm going to guess that whoever is controlling Monobear is the 16th student.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:00 |
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If it's not about my three sizes, go ahead and ask.
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hoping for The Trouble with Togami next
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:00 |
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Keeshhound posted:Syo has DID, but that doesn't mean that Naegi can't have it too. DID only occurs in the ladies. Unless there are two High-School Level Crossdressers, that's a no-go.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:01 |
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Mystic Mongol posted:q =/= e You're not mad at video games, you're just mad at Togami. He could have easily outed him, then told them to check his card. He was the one who told Naegi about the cards in the first place and he knew about the weak point, too. The room switch tripped him up, but Naegi took care of that.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:01 |
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ImpAtom posted:I have to say, I'm not clear on how we can have someone "get the kills started." Getting the kills started doesn't mean murdering yourself. Just compelling someone else to murder. Fortunately for Monobear the Idol (how quickly I've forgotten her name; how lazy I am to not go back and look) was crazy enough to start the despair chain reaction. e: Motorcycle death, corn-cob-looking hair, butter
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:02 |
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Hrm...if I had to guess, this mole would have to be Celes or Hagakure. When Monobear talks about the first case, he talks about how "that girl" pretty much turned the trial around from being some kind of stalemate or whatever. He's talking about Kirigiri, of course, but if she was the mole, then I'd think he'd actually say that to the person to whom he's talking.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:03 |
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Mecharasputin posted:Major Heavy Rain spoilers below: It did not, and I hope to GOD that whatever twists come up, they are not anything that Cage considers good
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:04 |
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So, let there be no further argument in the future about how Togami can't possibly have done any particular thing because he's too smart.... At least Mondo's execution seems relatively painless compared to Leon's. This update does provide more evidence for my 'Naegi is Monobear's favoured player' theory though, by suggesting that in Monobear's mind, a 'main character' does exist. Also, once again, the murder is a case of 'I ended up killing', contrasting with the considered intentionality of the trial participants. Re: The mole, Kirigiri does seem to be the main suspect.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:05 |
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XavierGenisi posted:Hrm...if I had to guess, this mole would have to be Celes or Hagakure. He was talking about Maizono. She broke the mutual non-killing and brought on the despair that anyone can die now.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:05 |
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Mystic Mongol posted:So, originally we thought that Togami was just kinda stupid for botching up the frame job when he was the original murderer. But, as it turns out, Togami is astonishingly stupid for framing someone else to find out who was the best detective. His plan to out the murderer if Mondo hadn't blabbed about the blue jersey was just tell the truth? How would that have worked? Togami isn't stupid, he's just messed up in the head or just bored.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:06 |
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HenryEx posted:You're not mad at video games, you're just mad at Togami. He could have easily outed him, then told them to check his card. He was the one who told Naegi about the cards in the first place and he knew about the weak point, too. Assuming he knew the card was broken, (and why would he) that's not evidence. The fact Mondo's card broke two days previously in the steam room doesn't tie him to the murder. Unless he had some concrete evidence that he couldn't have committed the crime, or that Mondo did, any excuses he made would just be a murderer with blood on his hands pointing at the guy in the room with a criminal background and blaming him instead. And after he tried that with a literal serial killer (and it didn't work) I find it hard to believe anyone would believe him.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:07 |
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Mystic Mongol posted:Assuming he knew the card was broken, (and why would he) that's not evidence. The fact Mondo's card broke two days previously in the steam room doesn't tie him to the murder. Unless he had some concrete evidence that he couldn't have committed the crime, or that Mondo did, any excuses he made would just be a murderer with blood on his hands pointing at the guy in the room with a criminal background and blaming him instead. And after he tried that with a literal serial killer (and it didn't work) I find it hard to believe anyone would believe him. Wow, you're really hating a fictional character to be so deep in denial. Aside from prepping Naegi pretty much for the sole reason of bailing him out, Ultragoon would have brought up the card he found either way. He would have gotten out, but the final judgement would have probably been even less unanimous than this one.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:11 |
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I know it's a small detail, but I really like that Mondo went willingly to be executed. He knew he deserved it, and he was going out like a man. Then he turned into butter and I couldn't stop laughing. I love this game. 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:12 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 19:47 |
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HenryEx posted:Wow, you're really hating a fictional character to be so deep in denial. Aside from prepping Naegi pretty much for the sole reason of bailing him out, Ultragoon would have brought up the card he found either way. He would have gotten out, but the final judgement would have probably been even less unanimous than this one. First off, Togami didn't know about the card. Togami didn't know what room the murder occurred it. Togami didn't know the victim's gender! He thought it was one dude killin' another dude. Also, he didn't know what Ultragoon's secret evidence was. Assuming that the crowd turned on him and it looked like he was going to be voted to death, what could he possibly do to prove he wasn't the murderer, given that his evidence that it was Mondo consisted entirely of witness testimony--the witness testomony of someone who minutes ago was accusing, with great certainty, someone completely different?
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:15 |
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