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Volt Catfish posted:I think it's absolutely fascinating how Leon and Maizono were the first killed because they got tired of their design. I wonder why they killed off Junko fairly quick, more than anything. orenronen posted:He's probably half joking, as there are far stronger thematic reasons for Maizono's death. Leon himself was probably designed specifically for the prototype version of the first execution movie (which I think was the first thing the team ever did, for presentation purposes), and that ended up staying in the game virtually unchanged. So, I remember you said that in the demo, there was a fake murder. If it doesn't have any spoilers, who was murdered? Did they actually build an execution scene for him too, or did the demo end at the vote or something?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 06:42 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 14:24 |
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GrizzlyCow posted:Celes was absolutely loathsome. I felt the dead characters were all at least a little sympathetic. I even felt some sadness for Mondo's execution. But not Celes. It is not her motivations that make her so goddamn loathsome; the fact she feels no remorse about her crimes is just sickening. Pretty much everything she was saying right before her execution was false bravado: she was trying to fool herself into believing she was happy, not remorseful, and not scared. Most liars can relate that the more you practice lying, the better you get at lying to yourself. She'd rather pretend to be confidant and unrepentant than be miserable in her last moments. Habitual liars learn to avoid bad feelings by constantly justifying their actions to themselves. It's not something that you break out of because things are going lovely for you. In fact, the worse you hosed up, the stronger your instinct is to avoid facing your own guilt by insisting that you're in the right.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 06:44 |
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Suspicious Dish posted:I wonder why they killed off Junko fairly quick, more than anything. From the reactions in this thread, probably to get the player engaged into more and more  speculations.  Antivehicular posted:Second, I'm pretty satisfied at the resolution here and am a bit confused by the dissatisfaction. One of the big themes of this game is the ultimate fallibility of the Super High-School Level students, and Celes is no exception. Yes, she was cunning and cold-blooded, but in the end she wasn't perfect and she had the juvenile motivations of your average high-school kid. I know big portions of the thread were expecting Celes to be above all of that, but the point is that none of our characters besides maybe Naegi is really above that. They're all kids thrown into a hopeless situation, and Celes is still very much a kid. I like both Cele's motive and execution methods - they, combined with her foul mouth during the trial, serve to remove her sophisticated facade and show that she is just as mundane as everyone else. I expect more twists during the trial though, and the whole Ishida subplot is superfluous IMO.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 07:22 |
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Jeek posted:I expect more twists during the trial though, and the whole Ishida subplot is superfluous IMO. Why would you say it's superfluous? It's some good characterization, and it sets up Ishimaru's murder pretty well by placing him into contention with Yamada and making him irrational enough for Celes's lie to play. Even the relatively gullible Yamada probably couldn't be convinced that sane, staid Ishimaru could be a threat, but Ishida was obviously volatile, so it was easy for Celes to convince Yamada that he was a threat. You also assume that Ishida's totally out of the story, which I don't think is a safe assumption at this point; remember, pre-Alter-Ego, everyone assumed Chihiro was pretty superfluous him/herself. Honestly, for everyone asking for more twists, I think this case plays well without them, particularly if you assume a player coming straight from the previous case. The second murder involved a lot of last-second revelations, with a result that was very difficult to predict without circumstantial evidence, and it's a palate cleanser for the player to give them a case they can actually puzzle out before the trial. They don't all have to be twist-fests.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 08:58 |
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Twists only work if you don't expect them. Setting you up to expect a twist every time is just bad writing.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 09:02 |
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Suspicious Dish posted:Twists only work if you don't expect them. Setting you up to expect a twist every time is just bad writing. See: M. Night Shayamalan. Besides, I like that Celes was so unrelentingly petty and cruel- she basically killed two people who might have been her friends if the clone/amnesia theories are right, just so she could live a fantasy goonier than anything Yamada could come up with. At least Yamada did it out of a misguided love.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 09:39 |
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I didn't mind how this trial played out, as others have said, since if you expect a twist every time it stops being a twist. Plus, this was the first time the player was asked to finger the culprit without being handed the answer at any point. Allowing the thread weeks to examine evidence and bounce ideas around makes it seem easy, of course, but remember that this case didn't have anything like Maizono's dying message or Mondo's slip-up.orenronen posted:The panel with Yamada and the blood flying everywhere is hilarious to me. (Also I think I'm loving the fact that blood is neon pink in this game more and more all the time.)
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| # ? May 28, 2012 09:48 |
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Suspicious Dish posted:Twists only work if you don't expect them. Setting you up to expect a twist every time is just bad writing. My point is that Celes is one of the most intelligent students, which would imply that she can create a better plan than either murderer has done. Perhaps it has something to do with everyone spotting the flaw in her scheme a day after each update as well. I agree with your sentiment otherwise. Ishida will have to wait a bit as I am not at the best position to do a longish  right now.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 10:50 |
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SweaterGear posted:Maybe it is just me but I don't see the tongue in the smilie. It looks to me that the regular It's a tongue  I would have made it redder but I was more bothered with figuring out .gif making in a program I hardly know. Also big thanks to whoever bought it. I didn't expect that at all 
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:07 |
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guy dropped his jaw because he was so overcome with the cuteness.
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Suspicious Dish posted:I wonder why they killed off Junko fairly quick, more than anything. I agree 
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:18 |
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CommissarMega posted:See: M. Night Shayamalan. I dunno about that first part; unless their memories were also tampered, it was heavily implied that Celes was scamming people out of their money in far better circumstances than this imprisonment one. I mean, she was an interesting character, but no matter the situation, she *just* isn't a good person. Maybe in a better, Monobearless situation the other students could help her see the error of her ways, but I doubt it. I agree about Yamada though. But, in lieu of how he was manipulated around the bend and back to murder Ishida, at least he died in the arms of an actual, 3-d girl who was sorry to see him die.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:18 |
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Man, Celes's motive took her from character I didn't care much about either way to awesome, and the fact that it made people Super High-School Level Angry made it even better. What girl doesn't want to live in a giant house full of scantily-clad man servants? I know I do. 
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:22 |
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I'm on my lovely laptop and without my tablet, so this probably looks like poo poo, but: For the salvation of Alter Ego ☆ ULTRAGOON PIROUETTE! e:  
Lunar Suite fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 12:31 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 12:23 |
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Lunar Suite posted:I'm on my lovely laptop and without my tablet, so this probably looks like poo poo, but: I wish I could somehow connect it to Yamada's BIG BOOBIE FEVER pun from the second chapter.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:31 |
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Lunar Suite posted:I'm on my lovely laptop and without my tablet, so this probably looks like poo poo, but: Fighting rivals by moonlight,Winning egos by daylight~ Never running from a real fight! He is the one named Ultra Goon~ Also raving goon is best goon.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:34 |
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Oh yeah, in case anyone was still wondering. I said i got myself spoiled by an animation from the Climax Inference of this chapter. Here it is. I'm linking it because it's a massive 30 MB animated PNG. Huge, but it looks good. No sound, no text, and no video compression artifacts.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:43 |
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Reading the freetime events with Leon I noticed him mentioning he's just as popular as any idol. Considering who he killed and the dev comments I was amused enough to make mention of it.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 12:57 |
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Sailor Goon? I would watch the poo poo out of that show.doomfunk posted:From a pure design standpoint that is one slick-rear end logo, and the placement on the hood is novel and cool so long as you assume the hood will never be worn in its proper position.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 13:02 |
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Dynastesaurus posted:Man, Celes's motive took her from character I didn't care much about either way to awesome, and the fact that it made people Super High-School Level Angry made it even better. What girl doesn't want to live in a giant house full of scantily-clad man servants? I know I do. One alternative character interpretation here is that she was exaggerating her motive from 'I want to live in the lap of luxury' to 'I want a loligoth CASTLE with VAMPIRE BUTLERS and LIVE IN DECADENT ELEGANCE FOREVER' at the last minute specifically because of a combination of suppressed guilt and unsuppressed desperate narcissism- she wanted to go out totally loathsome and totally awesome at the same time. EDIT: Then she got hit by a truck.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 13:08 |
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PoliteMachineGun posted:Well, and we don't know what kind of gambling she specialized in, if any. I think blackjack and poker against the house are supposed to have the best odds, Rawkking posted:
If that DOESN'T turn out to be the big plot "twist", I'll be pretty fuckin' surprised. TheGreatGildersneeze fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 13:58 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 13:54 |
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:I'd say the plot thins, to be honest. The game has been beating us over the head with the "they knew each other before!/brainwashing->reprogramming" hints in less and less subtle ways from the get-go. Yamada was probably remembering Celes' real name from before she was reprogrammed from "normal high-school student" to "gothic lolita super gambler with secret identity. Now with 100% more anime vampire fantasy dreams!" (also before they were all reprogrammed to remember it always being that way, etc). Especially when you consider he was whacked over the head with a mallet, a pretty classic slapstick-comedy amnesia/brainwashing cure. Maybe Yamada was the mole and got that info from Monobear himself!
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| # ? May 28, 2012 14:08 |
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GrizzlyCow posted:Celes was absolutely loathsome. I felt the dead characters were all at least a little sympathetic. I even felt some sadness for Mondo's execution. But not Celes. It is not her motivations that make her so goddamn loathsome; the fact she feels no remorse about her crimes is just sickening. Yeah I gotta admit, as hilariously anti-climax as her motivation and execution were I doubt anyone's going to mourn her very much. Honestly I suspected she was going to be a total bastard from the start but I sure as gently caress didn't have "vampire castle" pegged as a motivator until now. Now watch oren post her free time events and prove me completely wrong on all counts edit: Ditocoaf posted:She'd rather pretend to be confidant and unrepentant than be miserable in her last moments. Habitual liars learn to avoid bad feelings by constantly justifying their actions to themselves. It's not something that you break out of because things are going lovely for you. In fact, the worse you hosed up, the stronger your instinct is to avoid facing your own guilt by insisting that you're in the right. I really hope her free time events go into more detail about her past because if the "she grew up with a bunch of hicks" theory is correct then that might explain how she wound up as bad as this. MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at May 28, 2012 around 14:58 |
| # ? May 28, 2012 14:52 |
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:Yeah I gotta admit, as hilariously anti-climax as her motivation and execution were I doubt anyone's going to mourn her very much. Honestly I suspected she was going to be a total bastard from the start but I sure as gently caress didn't have "vampire castle" pegged as a motivator until now. Ah the new money effect,now Togami gives no fucks he knows he's awesome. 
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| # ? May 28, 2012 15:20 |
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HenryEx posted:Oh yeah, in case anyone was still wondering. I said i got myself spoiled by an animation from the Climax Inference of this chapter. Oh wow, that's great. I wonder if there's anything like that for the other chapters?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 15:57 |
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HelloWinter posted:
Now that someone's mentioned it, Celes really is the first time that a death didn't really feel "tragic" and more deserved. It kind of makes for a palate clenser after the huge tragedy fest that was Mondo/Chiriro. drat, never would of thought that a macho biker dude killing a male crossdresser he might have had a crush on would not only not be homophobic but done in a way that makes me feel so sorry for both of the,.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 16:35 |
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In the narrative the writers have you where they want, you took pleasure in a student death, it is something you wanted. You will be the next Monobear 
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:09 |
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I don't think anyone in the thread's mentioned it yet, but I THINK the goal at this point is that you're supposed to use the Silencer on the purple text to gain back time. It seems silly to "force" you into doing it if you want a perfect score and read all the dialogue Oren, but I'm assuming that's where the game wants to take you? (I can't test this, I don't have a PSP to play on anymore.)
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:39 |
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  It's over... The third execution is over... Celes-san's execution is over... I can't sympathize with her after she killed two of her friends, but... But nevertheless, she was one of us. And he's taking it so lightly...!   Oh dear! What a mess. Once again, someone killed because they couldn't sever their connection to the outside world...  You should take your lives more seriously! You're still young!!  Good grief... you guys were supposed to bring "hope" to the next generation. Will that ever happen, I wonder.  W...what hope are you talking about?! I refuse to take that responsibility, just let me out of here!!  Whether you accept it or not, you bastards are the poster children of "hope"... Thrusting you bastards straight into despair is my chosen destiny! It may be sad, but it's the unescapable reality. Y...you keep making fun of us... How long are you planning to keep it up?! What the hell is your goal?!  I'm getting sick of that question! Can you please stop asking it?  There's something far more important... Kirigiri-san, didn't Celes-san just give you something that looks like a key?  So what door does that key open?  ............ Huh? You don't know the answer? Before I answer your question... I have one of my own.  What... did you do...? What did you do to my body?  ...Eh!? Just answer... What did you do to my body? Wow wow... my heart is thumping... W...what do you mean, your body...! I...I'm innocent... I know nothing.... ............ U...um... W...what the hell...? What's up with that conversation...? Did the mastermind do something to Kirigiri-san's body...? What does that mean...? I feel the atmosphere has grown heavy, so I suggest we part now... Well, then. I hope you bastards continue to enjoy our fun school life. If you feel lonely feel free to always call me. Not that I'll answer or anything!  Upupu... See you later!! After that, Monobear disappeared, leaving the rest of us once more struck with despair. But, truthfully, it wasn't all despair... There was a tiny glimmer of hope. That is...  Hey, Kirigiri-san. I hate repeating Monobear's question, but... Was that a key Celes-san gave you earlier? So it seems. It's a locker key...  Eh!? So maybe...!  Celes hid that thing there...  I see... It is difficult seeing what is right in front of our eyes... Let us go and confirm, then.  Yes... Let's. We left the school trial courtroom and rushed to the public bath's locker room.  And then, just as we were about to go in... Kirigiri-san turned back to face us.    From here on, I'm going in alone. Please go to the cafeteria... I'll report my findings later.  And why, exactly, should we let you go alone? ...Isn't it obvious?Saying that, she took a quick glance at the security camera.   That's not what I mean. I'm asking why it has to be you. You are the prime suspect for being a mole, after all... ............ In that case... let me go with her. Naegi...? ...Please. I'll join her! ............ ...If we stand here and fight, it will just catch someone's attention. Hrm. Do as you please. Thank you, Togami-kun... Well, then. I leave it to you. We'll be at the cafeteria.  Eh? Naegi and Kirigiri-chan...?  Oh! I see! So that's how it is! Good luck, Naegi! Her type is surprisingly easy to win over, you know!Asahina-san left that piece of wisdom behind and walked towards the cafeteria, leaving me and Kirigiri-san alone.   Let's go, then. Sure...  I'm opening the locker.Kirigiri-san took the key Celes-san gave her out of her pocket, and moved towards the designated locker. She opened the locker slowly, and then...    Good morning. Heh heh... I feel like it's been ages since we've met! Thank god, it hasn't been harmed...Kirigiri-san's voice was surprisingly full of emotion, as if she was honestly relieved that Alter Ego was safe. I kept my promise to Celes-san, and kept quiet without speaking! Isn't that great?!  Ah, and also... I'm almost done decrypting the files on this hard drive. I may even be done by tomorrow... I'm doing my best, so please wait just a little longer. ...At least we have one thing to be thankful for."One thing to be thankful for"... I guess that's true. But... Can you hold on for a second? As long as we're here alone, there's something I want to ask. ............ Please tell me. What were you doing alone all this morning?  ...Did you come here with me just to ask that question?  It is... unnecessary to tell you right now... Unnecessary...? I'm... worried about you...!  Worried...? During most of the investigation this morning you were gone and no one knew where you were... And then, you refused to give an explanation... I don't know what to think... So... you suspect me of being a mole, don't you. ...Never!! I... believe in you, Kirigiri-san... You... believe in me? Of course I do! It's natural for friends to trust each other, isn't it? That's why I'm asking you to tell me! I want you... to trust me too... We're friends, aren't we? ............ ...I understand. I guess I can try trusting you too, just a little... Trusting... you... So...! ...Fine. I'll tell you. I'll tell you where I went, and why... You see...The story Kirigiri-san told me... Was truly a peculiar one. Even though I just said I trusted her, it wasn't an easy story to believe... That's why I waited patiently until evening to check it out with my own eyes. And then, when it became Night Time... I started moving.  ............ The boy's restroom on the second floor. There is no security camera on monitor inside... There's a utility closet over there. And inside it...The utility closet in the second floor boy's restroom... Is there really something there, like Kirigiri-san said?   Let's find out, shall we?  It looks like a perfectly normal utility closet. Is there really a secret here, like Kirigiri-san said?   ...Kirigiri-san said it was in here, didn't she? But I can't see anything sp--It happened when I put my hand on the back wall. Suddenly, as if something was being sucked out of the room... "Creaaaaaak!!" ...a loud sound could be heard, and my body passed through the wall... Then, before I could tell...  "Crash!!" I fell into the room behind the utility closet.  Eh......?In a word... The closet's back wall turned into a revolving door, and carried me over to the other side. Just like... Kirigiri-san said. The boy's restroom on the second floor... There's a utility closet over there. And inside it... Inside it, there's a hidden room. So this is... the hidden room... What's in this place, anyway? There are a lot of files here. Some of them look like previous years' graduation albums. Each and every one is covered in dust, though... One file, stuffed in the corner of one of the shelves, suspiciously caught my eye... "Hope's Peak Academy active student roster"...? That's the only file... without any dust on it... ...It looks like someone read it recently.Without thinking twice, I reached over for the file. But before I had a chance to look inside... A single piece of paper fell out of it and caught my attention.  What's that...? "We must not leave this place"...? That's a strange thing to write on a note... If it said, "We can't leave this place", I'd get it. But, "We must not leave this place"...? ............There's a hazy feeling inside my head. What is it...? Something feels strangely wrong... I feel like I'm having a deja vu... ...Those words. "We must not leave this place". I think... I heard... those words... before... But... I... can't remember......What is it that I'm not remembering...? What is it that I don't know...? What is it...? What is it......?     A strange noise rang inside my head. It was the noise of my grey matter shaken around. And then, immediately... Everything turned black. I didn't understand what was happening. And it took just an instant of not understanding... ...for things to end. When I woke up... It was a while later.  O...ow..... It hurts...It seems... I was hit on the head and lost my consciousness. ...That's the only thing I understood. I could tell by the sharp pain on the back of my head.   Empty bookshelves. Eh? Empty bookshelves...? They're gone... Someone took them...!The graduation albums... the student roster... and also, That note that fell on the floor. Are they all really gone...? What's the meaning of this...?At that moment, I couldn't think clearly. That sharp pain on the back of my head spread to the rest of my body... A...anyway... I... should go back to my room... I have to rest......I started walking back to my room with a heavy body and scattered thoughts... And then, when I reached the first floor of the building...  U...uuu... I get dizzy... just from walking around...My eyes became dim... My vision blurred... All of a sudden, I found myself curled on the floor. And just then... "........." ...Huh?"........." I can hear a noise from somewhere... "........." It's faint, but there's no question... "........." That noise... Is it coming from inside the gymnasium...?  I carried my shaky body to the entrance room next to the gymnasium. The noise I heard became more and more violent. "Bang... Pow....!" "Crash... Kachow...!" Is something... happening in there...? No, of course something is happening... But is it really... on the other side of that door...?   I silently peeked inside the gymnasium... As I did, the noise grew even more violent. "Crash... Kachow...!" "Powpowpow!! Bang! Crash!!" "Bangbang! Powpowpow!! Kachow!!"          Before my eyes a battle far beyond the abilities of regular humans took place... Well, at least one side wasn't, in fact, human... ...Be that as it may, the fight mesmerized me. I almost forgot how to move or breathe. What's the meaning of this? ............ Answer me. What is the meaning of this? Why are you resisting me...? That wasn't part of our deal!!"Deal"...? I have reached a decision... I shall not flinch nor grovel nor turn my eyes any more... ...I have finally made up my mind! I will... fight you...!! Oh...? Is that so...? Do you fully understand what happens if you do that? You haven't forgotten, have you? ...About that hostage situation...? ...!!............ What... was that...? What's up with... this conversation...? Hostage situation...? Does that mean... Does that mean the mastermind's mole is...?  CHAPTER 3: END  Students still alive: 07   Game system posted:You got the present, "Superalloy Justice Robo"
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:41 |
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Well, that proves me wrong about Alter Ego, but I do like that they're giving character to Sakura now.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:46 |
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 Whaaaaat.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:48 |
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16th Student stole all the documents and Sakura sounds like she's the mole. What the christ?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:55 |
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Well this took a turn for the unexpected
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:56 |
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...Holy gently caress. Holy loving gently caress. Holy. gently caress.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:56 |
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Sakura? But...I...what... Nooooooooooooo
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:57 |
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Holy crap, I wasn't expecting such a torrent of twists right after the trial. Never would have guessed Sakura. So, the one she can't defeat is... Monobear? Does that even count?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:59 |
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Chaosfeather posted:Sakura? Eh. It sounds like she was forced into the deal, and as far as we know the mole never actually did anything much.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:59 |
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"You're giving this game too much credit", was it? It's the best outcome, really
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:59 |
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...What the CRAP just happened.
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| # ? May 28, 2012 17:59 |
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I guess this makes up for the "disappointing" trial. Wow.orenronen posted:Hey, look! It's Spider-Bear! Or would this be Venobear?
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:00 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 14:24 |
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 No wonder the trial was lackluster. It perfectly contrasts with the  .
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| # ? May 28, 2012 18:02 |
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