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Jeek posted:Talking about detective novels, have there been any that ends with the culprit successfully committing a perfect crime with no further consequences? Usually that doesn't make for a very good story. That said, it's not that rare to get novels where the detective works out who did it, explains his reasoning in great detail to others, but ultimately cannot (or chooses not to) punish or publicly reveal the culprit. A couple of Conan Doyle stories are like that, also some Christie stories, and it's pretty much the central concept of Chesterton's "The Man Who Knew Too Much" stories (not to be confused with the Hitchcock movie of the same name).
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 06:22 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 22:36 |
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Several of Holmes' adversaries flat-out get away: The Five Orange Pips is an example where the adversary (in this case the goddamned Ku Klux Klan) literally gets away with murder and goes uncaught by Holmes. Several of Holmes' other cases also end up with the perpetrator going uncaught (especially Charles Augustus Milverton, in which Holmes helps cover up the murder of Milverton because he was such a horrible human being that Holmes sided with the killer), but in none of the others that I can recall does the perpetrator's identity not get discovered.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 06:33 |
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I just remembered the Goon-Togami hybrid picture someone posted earlier on this thread. That makes the Nero Wolfe comparison pretty hilarious. EDIT: Also on the topic of flat out not being caught, the book I cited earlier is an example where the killer isn't caught but sits down with the detective at the end of the novel and tells him the entire truth. The truth is eventually revealed to the reader, but through the culprit, not the detective. It's a pretty interesting dynamic.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 06:38 |
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Jon Joe posted:It isn't a novel (although it was originally a novel I have not read) and there's not entirely no consequences, but The Talented Mr. Ripley is a film where the main character is not actually caught. The series on which that movie is based seems close to what I have in mind, except it is not told in a first-person perspective. It is somewhat interesting that we have many stories depicting perfect theft (sometimes even praising them), but so few on perfect murder unless you count assassins.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 06:41 |
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Sherringford posted:Man I thought it would be easier to categorize Dangan Ronpa into some sort of mystery novel. Then again the whole "game not a novel" thing is bound to throw me off a little. Yeah, that's basically the issue. In a game, you want the player to have a puzzle to solve. You can't make the protagonist just a narrator of others' actions, because then the player has nothing to do. It wouldn't be much of a game if you got 10% through the trial sequence and then some other character said "actually, here's what really happened" and filled in the remaining 90%. That's also why Naegi is a little flavorless compared to the other characters, because he's supposed to be someone you can assign your own personality traits to while playing the game. Obviously that doesn't come through as much in an LP, though.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 11:55 |
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Yeah, in most books where the criminal gets away with it they are the PoV character not the detective. Character's like Arsène Lupin are often more antiheros and trickster figures rather than outright villains. But again you have both Holmes and Poirot having to kill there greatest nemeses themselves because they can't defeat them within the law. Whilst they don't get away scot free there (obviously) they did arguably win (pyrrhic on both sides).
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 12:58 |
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4th Asclepiadean posted:I wouldn't say Kirigiri is a hypocrite. She touches bodies, but she doesn't ever intentionally mislead the investigation. That's what she was calling Togami out on. I was honestly surprised the rest of the group didn't beat the poo poo out him after what he pulled in the Chihiro case.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 13:45 |
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idonotlikepeas posted:That's also why Naegi is a little flavorless compared to the other characters, because he's supposed to be someone you can assign your own personality traits to while playing the game. Obviously that doesn't come through as much in an LP, though. Except that, is he really someone you can put your own personality into? Naegi is a bit shy and lacking self-confidence, especially in Kirigiri's presence. He's kind and thoughtful, a bit coward with people, but can be brave in other situations (like with the crane, what Maizono remembers). That's a defined personality, not a lack of a one. A very brash extraverted kind of person might be irritated by having to put themselves in him, I think - Kirigiri or another kid might suit them better, character-wise. Also, I'm surprised that no one mentioned Christie's And Then There Were None yet. One of my favourite book of hers.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 13:59 |
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And bar none my least favourite book of hers. The Heavy Rain of Christie books.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:01 |
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pun pundit posted:And bar none my least favourite book of hers. The Heavy Rain of Christie books. I haven't played Heavy Rain or read And Then There Were None, so I am way on the outside of this reference. Care to elaborate a little?
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:06 |
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Heliotrope posted:I was honestly surprised the rest of the group didn't beat the poo poo out him after what he pulled in the Chihiro case. Hey, come to think of it... on the flip side did anyone apologize to Naegi after the first case when half the crew thought he killed Maizono? Aoi hasn't (onscreen) apologized to Hakagure either but that could change or happened while El Sixteeno was belaboring Naegi, but yeah. It does sort of feel like the students reactions to Trial Shenanigans are either being withheld or don't happen.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:07 |
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 Just like I did after the second chapter, I'm going to post social links with the dead characters gradually along with regular updates. There are a quite a few this time! But for now, on with the game.  Maizono-san, killed by Kuwata-kun...  Enoshima-san, killed by Monobear...  Kuwata-kun, executed...  Fujisaki-kun, killed by Oowada-kun...  Oowada-kun, executed...  Ishimaru-kun, killed by Yamada-kun... and then Yamada-kun, killed by Celes-san...  And Celes-san was executed...  ...Which brings us here.   A night has passed since Celes-san's trial. It's the same routine, cafeteria in the morning...   So it's just the five of us now...  That's one third of what we started with.  It feels lonely, naturally.  That is true... ............Nevertheless...  What was that I saw last night...? I don't understand... Is Oogami-san the mastermind's mole...? Is it really true...? ............   ...Naegi. Is something wrong? Oh, N...no...! Everything's fine!...I can't confront her in front of everyone. If I do that... it will only make things worse.   ............  Right! Let's eat until we drop!  Huh? Why do we need to do that?  Because, everyone has a weird expression on their faces. Maybe we're just hungry? When my stomach is full I always feel better. So let's eat...  Let's eat donuts and grilled fish until we drop!  That sure is deep impact combination fit for the end of the century...!  Huh? Aren't they both staples of a good breakfast!? Grilled fish is a staple of traditional Japanese breakfast, and while I'm not sure donuts are what you'd call a wholesome, healthy western breakfast, I think Asahina may be on to something here with her fabulous fusion breakfast style.  We can't afford eating so much that we can't move. We have some exploring to do after breakfast, after all...  The exploration following a school trial... A new area of the school must have opened up. In addition, we have Alter Ego with us now. The situation may not be as desperate as it seems. ...You're right. Let's try to think positively.  Yeah! Let's get rid of the dark thoughts and go for happy ones!  Like, about what we're going to do once we're out of this place...  Me, after we leave this place, I think I'm going to change my entire way of living...  Um, those sound dangerously like famous last words...  It's fine! I'm not gonna die! In fact, we won't have another murder at all!!  Eh? How come you're so sure...? Last evening, I had a premonition! My premonitions never lie, right?!  ...So, are they always on the mark?  They're extremely accurate 20% of the time! Maybe even 30%! That's... strangely vague.  It's natural that they fail sometimes, isn't it? It's not like they're supernatural or anything.  My fortune telling isn't like what you get from those people dealing with the occult!! Isn't fortune telling... occult by definition...? That's a huge misconception! Fortune telling is fortune telling! It's nothing like cattle mutilation or things like that! Cattle... what?  It's an urban legend... Aliens kidnap cows to examine and dissect them...  Are you sure it's just an urban legend!? Let me tell you about my very own personal experience! One day, I went to buy a hamburger for lunch. It was my first time at that restaurant, but they were known for their 100% beef burgers. I asked for a takeout, and was soon back on my way home. But suddenly... A beam of light came out from the sky!! That beam of light went headlong straight towards my burger! Before I could tell what was happening, my burger was snatched away! But then...! The burger stopped midair, and suddenly started to break apart!! One part continued its way upward the beam of light, and the remaining part went straight back into my hand! Do you understand what that means...? It meant it wasn't really a 100% beef burger, but was made with mixed meat! It was at least 70% pork, and only about 30% beef... I went straight back to the restaurant and questioned the owner. He had no choice but confirm his trickery! He was selling mixed meat patties disguised as 100% beef... Do you get it now?! That's the true meaning of cattle mutilation! I... think I lost you halfway through...  I can't even tell if you're for or against occult stuff. You truly are a stinkin' idiot, aren't you. That's a rude thing to say! In that case, you just stink. I can live with that! Y...you can!? U...um, anyway... It would be great if your premonition turns out to be true...  Well, at the very least I'm not going to kill anyone! I won't kill either! I mean, I don't think I'm even capable of something like that!! I concur...  Me too... Of course, I won't either. I can't even imagine killing a friend!...We exchanged those words, trying to comfort each other. Unity... that was the one thing we could achieve after witnessing so many victims. But... I wish Fukawa and Togami were also here to reassure us... But... those two are up to no good. They think about nothing but themselves... There's nothing we can do about being stuck with people with such rotten personalities...His words told the real story. Our unity was a weak and fragile one...  CHAPTER FOUR: All All Apologies   After finishing breakfast, we sat out to start our investigation. There should be new places we can go. We had to find out if there was anything helpful in them... Heading straight to the third floor ascending staircase. Yep, they're now open.  Hope's Peak Academy's 4th floor... So it really has opened... This time... I hope we're going to find something helpful...! No, we'll definitely find something! As usual, here's the floor map. We'll explore it next time!
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:08 |
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Hoooooooooooooooly poo poo. persistentminiboss, you are a true Super High School Level Fortune Teller. Aliens.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:13 |
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Music Room! Chemistry Lab! And... something! (seriously that looks like a needlessly hi-tech game of Battleship) (and besides the Battleship room and adjoining Monobear room... I'm gonna go with... Principal's Office and a... Staff Room?) Fedule fucked around with this message at Jun 1, 2012 around 14:18 |
| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:14 |
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Music and Chemistry rooms look to be right. Monobear room? And there's at least one more floor.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:15 |
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Music Room, Chemistry Lab. Uh, the room with the flags is probably the Head Office. The TVs is the security room - maybe where Monobear (or the guy controlling it) is hiding out. I think the desk with the vase might be the Reception? Or maybe a study area?
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:18 |
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Yeah, Staff, Principal's, Security, Chemistry and Music seems to be it. Naegi, when are you going to confront Sakura? When the two of you are on your own? What a good idea.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:24 |
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..Jeez, I WAS right. Aoi didn't apologize *at all* to Hakagure for the accusations. I mean, she's still my favorite character, but drat, girl.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:24 |
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orenronin posted:
I love how THIS is what he takes away from that encounter. Not "Aliens are real!" not "Goddammit, that was my lunch!" not "OH DEAR GOD WHAT THE gently caress WAS THAT!?" Hagakure's only concern is: "That rear end in a top hat ripped me off, I'd better go get my money back."
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:24 |
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Okay, posted my title card theory earlier, I hope it's not true in the slightest now. I really like Aoi 
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:25 |
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Speaking of the Title Card. Who is the other girl? Is it supposed to be Chihiro?
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:37 |
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Or Alter-Ego.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:39 |
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Flare_knight posted:Speaking of the Title Card. Probably Alter Ego. E: Crud
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:40 |
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Keeshhound posted:I love how THIS is what he takes away from that encounter. Not "Aliens are real!" not "Goddammit, that was my lunch!" not "OH DEAR GOD WHAT THE gently caress WAS THAT!?" Hagakure's only concern is: "That rear end in a top hat ripped me off, I'd better go get my money back." It's amazing how characters have gone from "Eh, they're okay" to "I LOVE THIS PERSON." Flare_knight posted:Speaking of the Title Card. I think so yeah. e: Or Alter Ego, that makes sense. Heliotrope fucked around with this message at Jun 1, 2012 around 14:43 |
| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:41 |
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Burger abduction is the best.  There is Aoi... and Chihiro in the title card? Maybe Alter Ego will be heavily involved in this chapter. Do anyone recognize what is the machine-like thing in the title card's background, by the way?
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:42 |
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Bathrooms and classrooms, but more importantly... Now that the floor with what looks like a control room and Monobear's room is open, Kirigiri's gonna go snooping around some more. Wonder what's down Monobear's pants...?
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:43 |
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Jeek posted:Do anyone recognize what is the machine-like thing in the title card's background, by the way? It looks like the Monobear puppetmaster room that we've seen before, to me.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:45 |
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Jeek posted:Do anyone recognize what is the machine-like thing in the title card's background, by the way? Looks like a big TV, so maybe it's the Security room? e:f,b
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:46 |
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pun pundit posted:And bar none my least favourite book of hers. The Heavy Rain of Christie books. Christie's The Murder of Roger Ackroyd also pulls this trick. As for the culprits getting away, that happens in one of her most famous novels, Murder on the Orient Express.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:48 |
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Jeek posted:Do anyone recognize what is the machine-like thing in the title card's background, by the way? It looks like the AV room from waaaay back in Chapter 1. Holy poo poo that was ages ago. Also, I have noticed a tendency for chapter titles to be the same as song titles. I believe we've had "welcome to despair academy", "weekly despair magazine" and "all all apologies" as song titles so far. I declare this new source of baseless speculation open for plunder! Fedule fucked around with this message at Jun 1, 2012 around 14:52 |
| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:49 |
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Sherringford posted:There's not a ton of those novels translated in English, but there's one calledTrent's Last Case that's nearly legendary, even though it has some serious-ish issues. Er... not sure if you're joking, but that novel was originally written in English in 1913 and is considered a classic of the genre.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 14:55 |
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Let nobody forget this perfect moment. Also is that a cape? I can't see a sleeve if it's his jacket. FedoraDefender420 fucked around with this message at Jun 1, 2012 around 15:08 |
| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:02 |
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Hahaha, holy poo poo, Hagakure is quickly becoming the best character. You were right, orenoren- this update really was Hagakure's time to shine. Then I remember the title card, and I realize that two of my favourite characters are probably going to bite it now
CommissarMega fucked around with this message at Jun 1, 2012 around 15:05 |
| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:03 |
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I wonder if the bank of monitors next to the Monobear face is the Headmaster's Office.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:07 |
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So out of interest and because my memory appears to be playing up somewhat: Did the video motives from the first chapter [Find out after graduation!] ever get touched upon again? I'm interested to see what Celes was after VAMPIRE CASTLE.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:09 |
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Psalmanazar posted:
Actually, it looks like part of a formal school uniform.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:14 |
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Did Kirigiri just namedrop Alter Ego in the cafeteria, in front of all those cameras? Dammit, you're supposed to be smarter than this!
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:15 |
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This is the weirdest update to listen to "Here Comes the Sun" with. Actually that can apply to pretty much every update, really. Also, I love the fact that even Aoi is calling Hagakure an idiot.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:28 |
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If there's another murder I bet the Chemistry room will somehow be involved!
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:47 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 22:36 |
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BliShem posted:Did Kirigiri just namedrop Alter Ego in the cafeteria, in front of all those cameras? Dammit, you're supposed to be smarter than this! They've been doing it all the time. I'm assuming that they've whispering it or something not that it matters because you know mole and all.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2012 15:52 |
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