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Bland posted:That doesn't really make any sense. It would be more likely that it would make you less likely to be caught as everyone would share a motive, because they all hate him. They don't hate him. He hasn't killed their pet and their sister. He's just been a jerk towards most of them, and the only one violent enough to beat someone for saying mean words to his face (gasp!) would be biker dude. No, if anyone's gonna kill someone, they're doing it to get out, not to get Touko his comeuppance. And getting out entails not being caught, and it's pretty dumb to kill the biggest distraction of suspicion.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:21 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 10:22 |
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Comments on a few things people seem to be forgetting about : -There's a sauna/bathhouse in there? Sounds handy for someone who, say, wants to wash evidence off themselves without going all the way back to their rooms...or it might just be there because anime. -The storeroom hasn't been brought up much, but Monobear did go out of his way to open it up. I have a feeling this will play into something, although I'm not sure what. If nothing else, it seems like a place not many people would go to, which would make it a good spot to do things in secret. -Don't the ID badges show where everyone is? Why didn't the students look at them instead of going "WHERE IS RICH KID?  ". Or was that a convenience just for the player?Zwiebel posted:What the hell did Celestia do to wrap supergoon around her finger? Did she turn two dimensional?
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:27 |
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HenryEx posted:They don't hate him. He hasn't killed their pet and their sister. He's just been a jerk towards most of them, and the only one violent enough to beat someone for saying mean words to his face (gasp!) would be biker dude. On the other hand, he's a pretty good victim because it's clear at this point to the kids that he's playing this as a game. If he were to be killed, it'd be hard to point fingers based on motive alone. If somebody were tidy, calculated, and good at keeping things in order, they could probably get away with it. Which is why I'm guessing Fortune Teller Man is our killer, because he's none of those and will leave big gaping flaws for us to pick up on and point the finger at him for. I'm guessing he's going to get a showy game-show-like "PICK A DOOR AND WIN A PRIZE" deal that mocks his so-called fortune telling abilities, and he'll pick one of two (or three) gruesome deaths. Bonus points to me if they somehow include the Monty Hall problem with his execution Haifisch posted:Maybe he's into yanderes? (animespeak for "crazy bitch who alternates between sweet and really nasty", for those who don't want to bother clicking links. And that's pretty much what Celestia did to him just then, so it's a possibility.) I'm going to play my  :sperg: card here, but a yandere isn't someone who alternates between nice and nasty, it's a supremely cute girl that is obsessed with a person. She would be all peaches and kittens to Doujin Dude, and try to kill anyone who crossed him. Although maybe she's a yandere for tea  Dickweasel Alpha fucked around with this message at Dec 27, 2011 around 22:33 |
| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:30 |
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Haifisch posted:
Or he was too nervous to question her demands because he doesn't know how to react to real girls, and then when he hosed up her expectations, she got all scary at him and is now basically her slave? That's what I took from it, anyway.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:31 |
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Speaking of Celes' finger, what was on her finger in her fierce pose? A thimble and a safety pin?
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:34 |
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You guys don't add the milk before the boiling water?! Man, way to be behind the times! Celes was interesting before, so I'm very glad she's getting more dialogue time here. In that fierce pose, that thing on her finger is a finger-length ring. They're pretty popular goth wear, I think. Edit: Hm, I dunno if that changes my speculations relating to how the murder will go down for this chapter. It's most likely going to lead to Heir getting accused of whatever occurs - assuming he's not the murder victim. I don't think he's likely to; he doesn't seem like the sort to go anywhere near the pool and changing rooms. Six Of Spades fucked around with this message at Dec 27, 2011 around 22:43 |
| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:41 |
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I'm actually surprised that Togami hasn't been killed yet, although he might as well have painted a huge bulls-eye on his back with his little "I'm in this to win this and I hate you all" speech.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:51 |
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Evil Mastermind posted:I'm actually surprised that Togami hasn't been killed yet, although he might as well have painted a huge bulls-eye on his back with his little "I'm in this to win this and I hate you all" speech. I think he's aware of that and he's doing it because he can outsmart anyone trying to get the drop on him.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 22:57 |
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I'm starting to like the Heir now. He's the only person that recognizes that yes, all of their lives are in danger and each and every one of them would be willing to kill everyone else for a chance to escape. I don't know if he'll end up murderer, though. I can't think up an ironic enough death for him. 
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:02 |
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Celestia calling Yamada 'pig-boy' made me think of Lord of the Flies 
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:10 |
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Wandering Knitter posted:I don't know if he'll end up murderer, though. I can't think up an ironic enough death for him.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:10 |
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or he could be crushed by a pile of money.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:18 |
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I like how a large slice of the cast is once again re-affirming exactly how stable they are. As far as they storeroom is concerned. If it contains certain household goods as well as food a poisoning isn't out of order. Something from it will probably be used during the upcoming murder in a similar way to the kitchen knife being nicked from the kitchen. I do wonder when the sewing kits and anatomy diagram will make a chekhov appearance.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:20 |
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ZeeToo posted:Speaking of Celes' finger, what was on her finger in her fierce pose? A thimble and a safety pin? An armor ring.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:26 |
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Gabriel Pope posted:Also I'm really intrigued by Celes's game theory lecture. She seems to have the deepest understanding of the situation of anyone (with the possible exception of Kirigiri.) She understands the Prisoner's Dilemma and knows that cooperation is always a losing play from the individual's perspective, so the obvious conclusion is that she's trying to manipulate everybody so that she can win (she certainly seems to have pig boy's number, anyhow. Celes has a fantastic understanding of game playing. She's cooperating with people and helping them out. This'll make it much harder for people to convict when/if she backstabs them. Togami's screwed. Twiddy fucked around with this message at Dec 27, 2011 around 23:51 |
| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:49 |
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Hey, Doujin author doesn't look like a pig! If anything, he looks like a man who would be cast as a pig spirit in a Japanese fantasy film
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:49 |
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My bets are all in (all puns intended with Celes) that Celes is going to kill someone, and if the Asshat survives, he will never kill anyone. If He's Detective Genre Saavy enough, or even Game Genre Saavy enough, he should know that killing is the worst move here. Celes, on the other hand, is a gambler, and her knowledge and sense will be limited to that of a gambler, and we know how compulsive gamblers are.
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| # ? Dec 27, 2011 23:57 |
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Wandering Knitter posted:I'm starting to like the Heir now. He's the only person that recognizes that yes, all of their lives are in danger and each and every one of them would be willing to kill everyone else for a chance to escape. My first thought is Crassus. I have a feeling the Heir will be sticking around for a while-unless a murderer is smart and realizes that most people do want to kill him, so that it could end with their graduation.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:00 |
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I think people are giving Mr Goon entirely too little credit. I note that his spell of brown-nosing has put him into a position where he has plentiful excuses to go in and out of the kitchen, the site of several possible murder weapons. And he's gotten into the trust of one of the main threats. Assuming he is actually genuine about his 2D complex, he doesn't feel anything about Celes at all, and is counting on her arrogance to allow him to manipulate her by pretending to be subservient. The fact that everyone's already discounted him as a killer when his background sets him to be a potential loner with no empathy for fellow humans suggests he's much more dangerous than he looks.
Fangz fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2011 around 00:05 |
| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:02 |
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Fangz posted:I think people are giving Mr Goon entirely too little credit. I note that his spell of brown-nosing has put him into a position where he has plentiful excuses to go in and out of the kitchen, the site of several possible murder weapons. And he's gotten into the trust of one of the main threats. Assuming he is actually genuine about his 2D complex, he doesn't feel anything about Celes at all, and is counting on her arrogance to allow him to manipulate her by pretending to be subservient. I think you're giving him far too much credit. I think he's a despicable waste of space who will be used as a pawn by Celes to ensure her continued survival at the Academy.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:05 |
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Bocc Kob posted:I feel the opposite on that. They always seem on the verge of holding together as a team quite happily until one moron starts saying things that makes them all nervous again. Instead of just banding together tighter against that one person, they all get paranoid of each other. Except apparently Sakura and Asahina, who are lady-bros. They could be scheming together against Monobear the whole time until he actively makes it a rule not to, but instead they're conveniently set against each other again and again. You keep saying they should be banding together against Monobear. What exactly would you suggest they actually do about him? Bearing in mind that he's established he can basically kill anyone anytime he feels like (unless you want to make the unsafe assumption that Junko happened to attack him in the only place that has Gungnir or something like it set up), what do you think this "scheming against Monobear" should consist of?
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:06 |
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Well, there's the hacker girl. And there's a (broken) laptop...
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:18 |
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Benly posted:(unless you want to make the unsafe assumption that Junko happened to attack him in the only place that has Gungnir or something like it set up)  ... Because he'll use something else next time.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:22 |
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Benly posted:You keep saying they should be banding together against Monobear. What exactly would you suggest they actually do about him? Bearing in mind that he's established he can basically kill anyone anytime he feels like (unless you want to make the unsafe assumption that Junko happened to attack him in the only place that has Gungnir or something like it set up), what do you think this "scheming against Monobear" should consist of? Monobear encourages them to explore their surroundings. He's also claimed Monobears are being constructed somewhere in the school. They have to come from somewhere. Maybe they can find blindspots he can't see them. Maybe they can find trapdoors or possible locations of more deathtraps. Maybe they could test out more of what Monobear has planned and what he's improvising like Celes was doing in front of the changing rooms. Maybe they could be doing anything except a cursory examination of rooms as they open up, then sitting around until a dead body pops up. They can do whatever they want that isn't on Monobear's rule list, but it's pretty standard mystery game in that regard, so they don't do much.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:23 |
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Bocc Kob posted:Monobear encourages them to explore their surroundings. He's also claimed Monobears are being constructed somewhere in the school. They have to come from somewhere. Maybe they can find blindspots he can't see them. Maybe they can find trapdoors or possible locations of more deathtraps. Maybe they could test out more of what Monobear has planned and what he's improvising like Celes was doing in front of the changing rooms. Maybe they could be doing anything except a cursory examination of rooms as they open up, then sitting around until a dead body pops up. They can do whatever they want that isn't on Monobear's rule list, but it's pretty standard mystery game in that regard, so they don't do much. Okay, "they should be exploring more thoroughly" is pretty legit although I'm not sure it exactly constitutes "scheming against Monobear". Pressing Monobear like Celes did is only really feasible when he makes a face-to-face appearance, so it doesn't come up all that often and honestly I think they've been doing okay on that front given their relatively few chances at it.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:30 |
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Remember that Celes isn't a compulsive gambler, she's a very successful gambler. A successful gambler is NOT someone who wins all the time, and definitely isn't someone who feels the need to play every time. It's someone who is good at: 1) Maximizing the profit if things are in your favor. 2) Minimizing the loss if the things are against you. That is, folding: staying out when appropriate so as to not lose anything. 3) Knowing whether things are in your favor or not, by reading people. 4) Bluffing so that your opponents fail to do (3) successfully. Anyone intelligent should notice that Monobear has set up a situation where the odds are HUGELY against everybody. If Celestia's "good gambler" trait is stronger than her "nuts" trait, she'll know that the only winning move is not to play, and to encourage everyone else to not play either. She is basically the OPPOSITE of Togami. Then again, she's nuts, just like nearly every other character. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2011 around 00:50 |
| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:44 |
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Calling it now. Heir kills $student, but does a triple-bluff, making a shabby job of fingering someone else, then making it indeed appear like he did it, but hiding hints pointing out another killer (and giving himself the added benefit of a late-revealed but apparently air-tight alibi), to lead the more intellectual students back away from him and onto another suspect. Screws up in a very minor way somewhere in the execution, allowing a grand alliance between the literary intellects of That Goon and Celes (or possibly the Crazy Author) and the excellent prosecution of Naegi and Kirigiri to corner him decisively. ...anyone who's willing to admit to intending murder while reading crappy detective novels is going to turn to convoluted measures. Who would be best able to recognize and predict such measures? That Goon and Celes (potentially the Crazy Author, depending on how her persecution complex can be used to tag the true suspect). Tell me I'm wrong. Scribbleykins fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2011 around 00:51 |
| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:48 |
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That's a pretty dumb move from the rich kid. If anyone but him is killed, he'll be suspect and getting voted as the culprit means that you die regardless of whether or not you are the culprit. Moreover, a prospective murderer has every reason to kill him because he's attracted the ire of the whole group, which will make it harder to finger the murderer. I'm not sure whether or not the author wanted to pass him off as a fuckup, but that's how I'm seeing him.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:51 |
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Scribbleykins posted:Calling it now. Heir kills $student, but does a triple-bluff, making a shabby job of fingering someone else, then making it indeed appear like he did it, but hiding hints pointing out another killer (and giving himself the added benefit of a late-revealed but apparently air-tight alibi), to lead the more intellectual students back away from him and onto another suspect. Screws up in a very minor way somewhere in the execution, allowing a grand alliance between the literary intellects of That Goon and Celes (or possibly the Crazy Author) and the excellent prosecution of Naegi and Kirigiri to corner him decisively. If Heir does a sort of triple-bluff thing, it'll be later in the game than this.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:52 |
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Scribbleykins posted:Who would be best able to recognize and predict such measures? That Goon and Celes (potentially the Crazy Author, depending on how her persecution complex can be used to tag the true suspect). Now I'm picturing a version of Liar's Game staring Celes and the Goon. I would watch it.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 00:53 |
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Ditocoaf posted:Remember that Celes isn't a compulsive gambler, she's a very successful gambler. I don't read her that way... Intro posted:Taking the alias Celestia Ludenberg, she’s a “Super High-school Level Gambler” who doesn’t know how to lose... A good gambler wins more than they lose. A gambler that *never loses* is either a good cheat, or just plain lucky. As a high school student, she can't have that much experience, which suggests to me she just won a high stakes game or two by luck as much as skill, and coming into this one, her over confidence is going to get her when she's playing a game she isn't familiar with, versus opponents that know her reputation. When her plans start falling apart, expect her to break down in a big way. If your reputation is 'the queen of liars', then you are a bad one. I'm sticking with my claim that Yamada McGoon, who is very different to the people she swindled behind, is going to have the upper hand in their relationship.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 01:06 |
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So, the Heir thinks he's invincible, that no one can kill him. He thinks he's the protagonist. Oh boy, this is going to blow up in his face.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 01:27 |
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Ditocoaf posted:If Heir does a sort of triple-bluff thing, it'll be later in the game than this. You think? Thing is, by taunting everyone like that (and not showing up for the morning meeting, which he has done previously, ensuring that people are going to come look for him in the library where they are bound to ask just what the hell he is up to), he's already played one of his cards in a potential triple-bluff: making himself one of the most likely suspect, when *GASP* he was just the perfect target for being set up all along! (but not really) Yeah, that may just be his arrogance and abrasive personality speaking, but I suspect he's too intelligent to do something like that without good reason. Why do so now, after all? He's basically avowed to kill someone already, and made enemies of everyone, or at least made them a heck more cautious around him. The best way to play on that right now will be to overturn everyone's expectations of him in a big way, while still keeping his eyes on the prize he's vowed to get: By, for example, a triple-bluff.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 01:34 |
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Saw this game when it was announced, figured it'd never come over, and so am watching this LP intently.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 02:37 |
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EDIT: Reread what you wrote, and I guess I should ask something. Did you mean that she should have, by sheer odds, lost money at least one night for how much she's played? If so, I'm gonna chalk up the situation to pure hyperbole. Fiction has a nice way of having absolutely larger than life characters, and "never losing money at the end of the night" is within the realm of probability, and thus something that the writer would throw in.Fangz posted:A good gambler wins more than they lose. A gambler that *never loses* is either a good cheat, or just plain lucky. As a high school student, she can't have that much experience, which suggests to me she just won a high stakes game or two by luck as much as skill, and coming into this one, her over confidence is going to get her when she's playing a game she isn't familiar with, versus opponents that know her reputation. When her plans start falling apart, expect her to break down in a big way. If your reputation is 'the queen of liars', then you are a bad one. As evidence for my claim, note later in the text you quoted. "She always manages to rob everyone of all their money." Because it was given specific mention, we can assume that this is one of the important parts of her victories. Her "no lose" reputation is based on the long game, not on individual hands. Ditocoaf was accurate in how an ACTUAL professional gambler acts, and so far Celes' behavior has been relatively consistent with that of someone who knows how to gamble professionally (outburst about loving tea notwithstanding). Twiddy fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2011 around 03:54 |
| # ? Dec 28, 2011 03:22 |
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Hmm, mystery novels? Okay, my bet for the next murder is it's a locked room mystery.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 03:26 |
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See what you get for voting for rear end in a top hat? You really think he is gonna open up to us? Good riddance when he dies. Heir probably thinks he is invincible because all of this was his doing(who better to organize and finance this than a rich bastard?), and he is protected by whoever he left in charge. Turns out that it will backfire, and the guy in control while Togami is inside actually hated him, and who wouldn't?
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 03:39 |
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I'd hardly expect him to open up to us regardless. About the only thing we'll be getting from some of these is just an idea of what each character's personality is more in depth. Baseball Kuwata already seemed to be a little erratic, and that was somewhat shown with his dabbling in music before realizing he loves baseball. For hanging out with snog heir douchebag, we'll probably just get a better idea of his family's operations, his upbringing, and what a snot he is to the hoi polloi. And is our main character ever the embodiment of the majority. Skill Obtained: Snotty Rebuttal! Omit one false counter-argument from Rapid-Fire Debate because you're better than them!
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 03:47 |
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Fangz posted:I don't read her that way... Really? Because this is exactly how I read her. Ditocoaf posted:Then again, she's nuts, just like nearly every other character. I disagree on this point, however. I don't think Celes' freakout or anything she's done that seems insane is actually her being nuts. I think she's doing what gamblers do best: reading people and acting in a manner to lead or control the actions of others.
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| # ? Dec 28, 2011 03:53 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 10:22 |
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Yeah, I have to agree that Celes knows what she's doing in terms of risk and gambling. "Never losing" just means that, in any complete game, she always ends up ahead. If I had to guess, I wouldn't say that this means she's going to sit back and try to convince everyone to be all nice and friendly. As a gambler, she's probably going to wait until her odds are best to kill someone and have everyone convinced that it wasn't her. Since she's a gambler and not a forensic investigator, she'll most likely have the perfect crime, if not for some small key pieces of evidence that she will miss and ultimately lead to her downfall. And then she gets impaled by a million razor-sharp playing cards, I guess. e: maybe she'll end up killing Hifumi, after having seemingly established him as her personal servant and a useful tool? Time Traveler fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2011 around 04:17 |
| # ? Dec 28, 2011 04:15 |
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