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LordSloth posted:What does Monobear claim to most desire? Despair. This is exactly why I think Naegi is the mole.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 06:27 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 08:31 |
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CommissarMega posted:They only start out that way, insofar as I see (well, most of them, anyway). It was interesting, seeing Junko's hidden heart of steel, Mondo's insecurities and Chihiro's actual manliness- hell, even Syo's interesting beyond 'She's a serial killer lol'. While I do agree the characters are good, they are not fantastic. In particular it seems that a lot of fandoms out there seem to love quirky characters who develop little to nothing through the course of the story (MSPA, Touhou, etc.) and while they're well done and very entertaining to read about, they're far from having three dimensions or from being well developed. e: what was that enter key doing there
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| # ? May 4, 2012 10:15 |
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HenryEx posted:C'mon guys, we all know it was Junko's cloned twin sister who has secretly rewritten Alter Ego to spy on the group and got rid of the two creepy jerks, and also to spice up the game when no one took the money bait because she is also the mole and the 16th and 17th student. I'd be ok with this were it true.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 11:30 |
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Shoopuf posted:We saw Aoi discover Alter Ego independent of Naegi. Unless Naegi was secretly spying on her at the time because he's the mole!!! What now? 
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| # ? May 4, 2012 14:07 |
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Ghost Car posted:Unless Naegi was secretly spying on her at the time because he's the mole!!! What now? Or maybe Naegi is actually dead and his spectral form just decided to occupy Aoi at that time instead of the hollow shell the other characters recognize as Naegi. I think I'm onto something here.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 14:13 |
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TK-31 posted:While I do agree the characters are good, they are not fantastic. In particular it seems that a lot of fandoms out there seem to love quirky characters who develop little to nothing through the course of the story (MSPA, Touhou, etc.) and while they're well done and very entertaining to read about, they're far from having three dimensions or from being well developed. It is important to note that this is a game after all, so entertaining character development would take precedent over realistic ones. (Fukawa/Syo and Ishimaru/Ishida are prime examples.) Can you suggest some books with truly well-developed characters, by the way?
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| # ? May 4, 2012 14:13 |
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Characters with the development of Ultragoon, Scissors McGee, Double Bancho, and Lord Sir Assholington? Throw a brick in a library and you have about a fifty fifty chance of hitting equally deep characters and the non-fiction section. E: For entry level books, you can't go wrong with Pratchett.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 14:43 |
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Mystic Mongol posted:Characters with the development of Ultragoon, Scissors McGee, Double Bancho, and Lord Sir Assholington? Night Watch is a legitimately moving story. And Thud! has one of the best climaxes ever. Where is my cow? There! THERE IS MY COW!
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| # ? May 4, 2012 15:05 |
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Jeek posted:It is important to note that this is a game after all, so entertaining character development would take precedent over realistic ones. (Fukawa/Syo and Ishimaru/Ishida are prime examples.) Mystic Mongol, who's Double Bancho?
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| # ? May 4, 2012 15:08 |
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Wow - didn't expect such speedy replies. Thanks dude(tte)s and I will check some of them out on the next library trip instead of heading straight to the science section as usual. Does Paradise Lost count as having good characterization, by the way?RentCavalier posted:Night Watch is a legitimately moving story. And Thud! has one of the best climaxes ever. Where is my cow? There! THERE IS MY COW! The Russian one or Pratchett's work? @meristem: Mystic Mongol meant Ishida. Mondo can be considered a bancho and Ishida got a double dose of it thanks to insanity. Jeek fucked around with this message at May 4, 2012 around 15:32 |
| # ? May 4, 2012 15:27 |
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Paradise Lost is good if you like poetry, but it's not really a character story, just an interpretation of Satan's fall. I staunchly get behind the recommendations for Pratchett and Crime and Punishment. The latter is pretty much the literary interpretation of examining a murder from the murderer's perspective, and the latter is just a great author for quick, entertaining books. I can recommend any of his books from the Discworld series, a fantastic satire series which you can jump in anywhere (they're only part of a series insofar that they sometimes reference previous works and are set on the same world), but I do throw in special mention for Night Watch and Thud for the reasons mentioned, although I do hold a special place in my heart for Small Gods, which I recommend if you have thought about religion at all. If you aren't so hot on beginning a new series at the moment, Pratchett has a couple of stand-alones which are all nice, but if you also like Neil Gaiman, you owe it to yourself to check out Good Omens, a funny, moving story about the end of the world. As for the Russian Night Watch series... hm. I think they're good books from a thematic perspective (there are some fascinating discourses on the nature of good and evil, some nice action scenes, and I like the way magic works), but not really from a character one.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 16:08 |
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meristem posted:Mystic Mongol, who's Double Bancho? Jeek posted:@meristem: Mystic Mongol meant Ishida. Mondo can be considered a bancho and Ishida got a double dose of it thanks to insanity. Yup, pretty much. The main strength of the Pratchett works is that while there's a consistent tone and voice across the dozens of full length novels he's written, they all have very different themes and plots and characters. Also he's got a very readable style--without insulting the reader, he still manages to have novels which aren't challenging to read. Get started now, Pratchett's wrapping up the series so he can cap himself. (  )
Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at May 4, 2012 around 16:24 |
| # ? May 4, 2012 16:21 |
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A few months ago I read The Brothers Karamazov: it's a hard-as-gently caress read, but it is amazing at characterization. Dostoyevsky ranks up there with Goethe and Shakespeare in the ability to really understand what goes on in a person's head, IMO.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 16:40 |
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Jeek posted:It is important to note that this is a game after all, so entertaining character development would take precedent over realistic ones. (Fukawa/Syo and Ishimaru/Ishida are prime examples.) Yes, you would be correct (I honestly think realism in fiction is overrated) and often a game has to focus on its own plot and gameplay to the point that it has to sacrifice characterization. Its not that the characters are bad (they are leaps and bounds in the personality department as far as ensemble casts go, when compared to the genre median) its more that they do not get to do much in the limited timespan they've got other than to assert their stereotype, and that most of the development is told instead of being shown. This is kind of a common thing with Japanese mass media in general, though, but off the top of my head, and to serve as a contrast, I think Haruki Murakami makes some really interesting characters and if the LoGH books are anything like the anime then a good chunk of the cast is loving brilliant. Obligatory 
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| # ? May 4, 2012 18:08 |
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the speculation has gotten insane. We need a update or some new evidence to get things back on track
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| # ? May 4, 2012 18:09 |
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Raven9686 posted:the speculation has gotten insane. We need a update or some new evidence to get things back on track Sorry for the delay -- trial updates take longer as is, and I'm still trying to figure out my new high quality workflow. I'll hopefully get the next update finished tomorrow.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 19:08 |
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orenronen posted:Sorry for the delay -- trial updates take longer as is, and I'm still trying to figure out my new high quality workflow. I'll hopefully get the next update finished tomorrow. You just want us to build up despair as we wait for the next update.
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| # ? May 4, 2012 19:29 |
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orenronen posted:Sorry for the delay -- trial updates take longer as is, and I'm still trying to figure out my new high quality workflow. I'll hopefully get the next update finished tomorrow. No worries. Looking forward to seeing those court scenes in high-res.  VVV You got what I meant. 
Lt. Dans Legs fucked around with this message at May 4, 2012 around 19:54 |
| # ? May 4, 2012 19:43 |
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(It's still the same resolution, just better quality.)
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| # ? May 4, 2012 19:53 |
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Patter Song posted:Dostoyevsky ranks up there with Goethe and Shakespeare in the ability to really understand what goes on in a person's head, IMO. Heads up, you can get a bunch of Dostoyevsky's books free from the Amazon Kindle store. Even if you don't have a kindle, there's an app for phones, and a downloadable one for computers. The Brothers Karamazov, Crime and Punishment, even The Idiot. All great reads, and the price can't be beat. Link!
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| # ? May 5, 2012 00:50 |
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Celes' motivation seems pretty obvious (graduation plus the ten billion yen), but has there been any good speculation about what Yamada's motive for cooperation might be? The three obvious motives for this chapter are: 1) Alter Ego. 2) 10 billion yen 3) Survival And there are a few levels of cooperation with Celes that could have been in effect. 1) Yamada planned to kill Ishimaru, and Celes just took advantage of it. Frankly the whole setup seems too elaborate to do without his willing participation in many of the details. 2) He thought he would just fake his own death and somehow survive the game. (Hide until Celes graduated and escape once it was "all over".) But the "Yasu-hiro" at his death sure sounds like he is still cooperating. Unless this is part of some Japanese phrase and he was saying something else? 3) He understood that he would die, but had a strong enough motive (love or promises of what Celes would do with the money) to agree anyhow. Frankly we haven't seen any indication that Yamada has a selfless bone in his body, but maybe I'm underestimating 2D love. 4) There was an understanding (explicit or implicit) that Yamada and Celes would cooperate to create the perfect crime, but only one of them would survive once it was done. A 50% chance of graduation is better than what they'd have if they didn't take action.
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| # ? May 5, 2012 01:18 |
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I have a weird feeling in my gut that it was Celes assisted by Aoi.
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| # ? May 5, 2012 06:48 |
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JUICY HAMBUGAR posted:I have a weird feeling in my gut that it was Celes assisted by Aoi. That's a pretty crazy theory, more because of Aoi than Celes, of course, unless they drop a 'She was evil all along' on our heads. Anyway, my personal guess is for Celes, thanks to the way she's acting and the prize for the murder being cash. My gut feeling tells me Celes is actually a terrible gambler or is a good one that took a harsh loss before coming in here and is in need of a lot of cash. Maybe it's too obvious, maybe it's not. Hard to guess with this game.
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| # ? May 5, 2012 07:05 |
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Baby Proof posted:3) He understood that he would die, but had a strong enough motive (love or promises of what Celes would do with the money) to agree anyhow. Frankly we haven't seen any indication that Yamada has a selfless bone in his body, but maybe I'm underestimating 2D love. Well, right before they are murdered, both Ishimaru/Ishida and Yamada loudly declare that they will do everything to get Alter Ego back. Maybe that's Celes' proposal to one or both of them: they die, but if she walks free, she takes Alter Ego with her? Less so with Ishida, but with Yamada, I can imagine him trading his own life (and everyone else's besides Celes'), for the laptop's freedom. Edit: a huge problem with this is... that robot suit, and so the murder, must have taken more than one night to prepare. Celes couldn't have offered this deal to Yamada only last night after they discovered the laptop went missing. meristem fucked around with this message at May 5, 2012 around 07:51 |
| # ? May 5, 2012 07:48 |
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meristem posted:...that robot suit... must have taken more than one night to prepare. In fact, with a setting as anime as this, everything is possible except a violation of the second law of thermodynamics. I am starting to doubt if that exception still holds though. 
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| # ? May 5, 2012 10:37 |
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Captain Bravo posted:Heads up, you can get a bunch of Dostoyevsky's books free from the Amazon Kindle store. Even if you don't have a kindle, there's an app for phones, and a downloadable one for computers. The Brothers Karamazov, Crime and Punishment, even The Idiot. All great reads, and the price can't be beat. However, for anyone intending to read these books, I would suggest going with the Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky translations. They're going through basically all the Russian classics, and their translations have a sort of 'life' that just keeps you reading. Also, with their translations, I never had the problem with telling characters apart, which can be a problem with some Russian literature.
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| # ? May 5, 2012 12:10 |
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Jeek posted:In fact, with a setting as anime as this, everything is possible except a violation of the second law of thermodynamics. In a very broad sense this game is the second law of thermodynamics. Every new death is irreversible and increases the amount of emptiness/entropy throughout the school/universe. I do not know jack poo poo about physics, can you tell?
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| # ? May 5, 2012 14:37 |
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Jeek posted:It is important to note that this is a game after all, so entertaining character development would take precedent over realistic ones. (Fukawa/Syo and Ishimaru/Ishida are prime examples.) Read K.J. Parker. Excellent characterization, truly despair inducing plots. (S)he (it's a pen name and there's basically no info available on the person behind the alias) does not appear to have ever heard of this concept called "a happy ending".
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| # ? May 5, 2012 15:30 |
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malkav11 posted:Read K.J. Parker. Excellent characterization, truly despair inducing plots. (S)he (it's a pen name and there's basically no info available on the person behind the alias) does not appear to have ever heard of this concept called "a happy ending". I couldn't agree more. An amazing talent for creating a character and breathing life into them in a surprisingly short time (often a page or less), and then killing them off ruthlessly (if they're lucky). Fantastic writing, but soul-destroying.
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| # ? May 5, 2012 20:37 |
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Is it weird that the thing I'm looking forward to the most is having new, non-blurry portraits for the characters?
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| # ? May 5, 2012 23:47 |
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I can't back this up with anything beyond a stubborn hunch, but I think Yamada is our sole murderer and faking his death. Yes, I know Monobear told us he was dead, and Kirigiri probably would've noticed his being alive when she examined him, but I just don't trust that guy! vvvvv Edit: I know. But my guts says he's fakin', so that's my guess! i am not a very good detective Crowetron fucked around with this message at May 6, 2012 around 00:58 |
| # ? May 6, 2012 00:30 |
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Crowetron posted:I can't back this up with anything beyond a stubborn hunch, but I think Yamada is our sole murderer and faking his death. Yes, I know Monobear told us he was dead, and Kirigiri probably would've noticed his being alive when she examined him, but I just don't trust that guy! Monobear's announced deaths twice this chapter. There are at least two bodies. If he faked his own murder, he died to do it.
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| # ? May 6, 2012 00:52 |
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ZeeToo posted:Monobear's announced deaths twice this chapter. So maybe it's a murder-suicide? I just don't want Celes to die and for the despair to go away...
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| # ? May 6, 2012 03:08 |
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There were two death announcements: one for Ishimaru, one for the Sixteenth Student. Yamada killed them both. It works out perfectly, trust me!
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| # ? May 6, 2012 07:38 |
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It was Aoi with the poison in her tears!
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| # ? May 6, 2012 08:31 |
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Det_no posted:It was Aoi with the poison in her tears! That... actually sounds like an awesome assassination method.
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| # ? May 6, 2012 13:33 |
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Det_no posted:It was Aoi with the poison in her tears! CremePudding posted:That... actually sounds like an awesome assassination method. Aoi Asahina: Super High School Level
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| # ? May 6, 2012 13:59 |
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Jeek posted:Aoi Asahina: Super High School Level Assassins do have to be in good overall shape... 
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| # ? May 6, 2012 14:51 |
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  Scroller: Finally, a double-murder... Who is the culprit who took Yamada and Ishimaru's lives?! A school trial where doubt gives birth to new doubts!  Rest assured, I equip the best skills. THE COURT IS OPEN!    Let’s start with a simple explanation of our school trial! The result of the trial is determined by your own votes. If the correct culprit is chosen, they alone will be punished. However... if the wrong person is voted for... Everyone but the culprit will be punished. The culprit alone, having managed to fool everyone, will publicly graduate this school!  Well, then... let's start with...  We already know who the culprit is! Oh...?   It's the person who disappeared and has no alibi for any of the crimes. The person we found wearing that strange costume. Yasuhiro Hagakure-kun...  It can't be anyone else... you are the culprit, aren't you...!  I...I told you, it's a big mistake! Someone drugged me and...!  Shut your mouth, you murdering bastard!!  Why are you of all people calling me that!! Hagakure-kun. I'm sorry, but there's too much evidence against you. We have the plans you made for that costume, and furthermore... A box of materials that were probably used to make it... We found them all in your room. That's decisive evidence. You made that costume, put it on and went on your crime spree, didn't you.  B...but, I... I...  I don't know don't know don't know don't know don't know anything about that!! Is Hagakure-kun really the culprit? Or maybe... First, we must make that clear...!  Chapter 3 - Phase 1 (Youtube via Polsy)  DISCUSSION START  Evidence Bullets: Justice Robo costume, Hagakure's message, Justice Robo plans  We found them in your room...  Those plans and materials tell the whole story.  They tell us that you are the culprit...  I...I... I know nothing!!  It was a trap! A conspiracy!  Hagakure... Why did you kill them...?  Just wait a second!! Decisive evidence... Is that really the case? This chapter ramps up the nonstop debate difficulty level considerably, as we'll see soon. They're giving us one freebie to start with, though. Evidence bullet: Hagakure's message Those plans and materials tell the whole story.   YOU'VE GOT THAT WRONG!     Are you sure Hagakure-kun really wrote those plans? What... do you mean? I mean, take a look at this... It's the note Hagakure-kun wrote to gather all of us when Alter Ego went missing... Isn't the handwriting clearly not the same? It couldn't be any more different from the sloppy one on those plans over here...  I agree. It's unimaginable that they were written by the same person...  ...Isn't he just using different handwriting for private and public use?   No. This does not look like a simple gap between styles... It's not like I'm even clever enough to use different styles, y'know...!  So... Are you saying Hagakure-kun isn't the culprit, Naegi?  It's not just Naegi. I'm thinking the same thing. Eh...?  If that's so, who was that walking around in the Justice Robo costume!? Are you saying it was someone else in a second costume, like Hagakure thought!? That suspicious person's true identity...  Naegi. Answer that question for us. ...Why is he throwing the question to me, all of a sudden?  Naegi, just answer... Who was that in the Justice Robo costume?That suspicious person... The only one who could have been behind that costume is...  A shadowy organization / Aoi Asahina / Yasuhiro Hagakure   It... could have been no one but Hagakure-kun. He's the only one who fits in that costume, and we never found a second one...  There's no question. That suspicious person's identity was Hagakure. You're making no sense, you two! You were just saying he's not the culprit, weren't you?!  It's not that strange. It's simply that he was that suspicious person, but he isn't the culprit.  So, are you saying that...  ...That's right. These murders have nothing to do with that suspicious person.  Eh...!?  A magnificent feat of logic!!  ...Do you have any proof? We need proof showing that suspicious person isn't the culprit...  Of course I do. But before that... There is something we need to make very clear. Let us first discuss that thing. Hey, don't act so self-important...! There is a proper order to everything.  In that case... what is it? That thing you need to make clear...? It's the way Ishimaru's body was moved. When that body was moved, what was used to carry it around...? How about it, Naegi? Can you answer that question?Something used to carry Ishimaru-kun's body around... That must be...  Evidence bullet: Dolly in the art room There was one more thing...!  Evidence bullet: Tarp  A dolly and a tarp... wasn't it?  ...Hmf! Is he... irritated?  U...um, let me explain... When we found Ishimaru-kun's body, which disappeared from the physics lab, at the art room storage... His body was laid on top of a tarp, wasn't it? That tarp was probably taken from the pile that's at the physics lab. When the culprit carried Ishimaru-kun's body form the physics lab, he must have wrapped it in that tarp. Probably so no blood is spilled, leaving traces...  It does seem a tarp has been used, but what about the dolly? I know that because... When we first found Ishimaru-kun's body at the physics lab, I'm sure there was a dolly near it... But after the body disappeared, that dolly disappeared with it. After that, when we found Ishimaru-kun's body at the art room storage... That dolly was right there, next to the body. To summarize, you want to say that the body was moved using the dolly, don't you? But, aren't you just misremembering? Eh...?   When you first found Ishimaru-kun's body at the physics lab, was there really a dolly next to him? That kind of dolly is often used in the art rooms to carry statues and such around, isn't it?  The fact that it was at the physics lab at all isn't normal. Are you sure you're not just imagining it being in the physics lab in the first place?  She has a point, Naegi... So, what do you plan to do?  Don't worry, Naegi-kun. No one is really expecting much from you.  It is very clear to all of us you aren't the brightest character around. Not the brightest character... that's the first time someone says that to my face, but... in order to clear my name... I'll show her the proof that that dolly moved from the physics lab to the art room...! Tutorial posted:I will now explain about reloading. We have a skill equipped that reloads two bullets instead of just one every time we push the square button. Chapter 3 - Phase 2 (Youtube via Polsy)  MACHINE GUN TALK BATTLE START     When Ishimaru-kun's body was discovered in the physics lab, was the dolly really there?  Evidence bullet: Blood traces in the physics lab       If you're looking for proof that dolly was used, I have one right here. When I found the dolly in the art room, there was blood on its tire... There were also marks from that same tire next to the blood puddle at the physics lab. When the culprit carried the body on the dolly, they were probably sloppy and pushed the tire into the blood... ...And then pushed it with blood still on the tires all the way to the art room. ...That's my proof. When Ishimaru-kun's body was moved, the culprit used the dolly...!  ...Hmf! Even Celes-san is irritated with me...?  ...It doesn't really matter, though. It was just a complementary discussion anyway. Let's return to the main issue.  That's right! You were saying Justice Robo isn't the culprit! If he really isn't... ...which Robo is the real culprit, then!?  Asahina. I do not think a Robo was involved at all... I guess it's time to discuss this issue. You want proof our suspicious person isn't these murders' culprit? If you just think about the way Ishimaru's body was moved, you'll find the answer soon enough. The proof that the suspicious person has nothing to do with the murders... lies in the way Ishimaru-kun's body was carried... ...What does he mean? Chapter 3 - Phase 3 (Youtube via Polsy)  DISCUSSION START!  Evidence bullets: Justice Robo costume, Dolly in the art room, Justice Robo plans  The culprit killed Ishimaru in the physics lab...  And then moved his body elsewhere, didn't he?  He wrapped the body in a tarp...  Put it on a dolly and carried it away, right?  That dolly had no handle on it.  But, even though it had no handle...  If you stoop down...  It's very easy to push it around!  The culprit did just that...  ...and pushed the dolly to the art room!  Do you get it now...?  The reason that suspicious person can't be the culprit?  I... have no clue... Ishimaru-kun's body was carried on that dolly... That's clear. But... could that suspicious person really push it around? You'll notice the sudden increase in the number of weak points. Not only that, all three evidence bullets we are given are related to the problem at hand. Things are starting to get tricky. Here's the correct combination: Evidence bullet: Justice Robo costume If you stoop down...   YOU'VE GOT THAT WRONG!    It's true that if you stoop down it's easy enough to push a handle-less dolly around... But... could someone wearing that costume really do such a thing? W...what do you mean? Try to remember. It was when we were checking that costume together... It has a horrible field of vision! I can't even see my feet! You must have practiced walking around in this thing! I told you... it wasn't me... And also... I can't turn my waist at all! This really is a sloppy design!! When you have that costume on, not only can't you see your feet, but you can't turn your waist either... Wasn't that what you said, Asahina-san?  Now that you mention it... I guess I did... If you cannot turn your waist, it is exceedingly difficult to push a handle-less dolly. In that case, maybe the culprit moved the dolly by kicking it around...? But they couldn't see their feet! Can you really move a dolly like that in that condition? There's no way they could do it like that! Not that I have any experience or anything! In addition, if they were wearing a costume that's as difficult to make fine movements with as that one is... It's a mystery how the culprit even managed to wrap the body in a tarp.  They probably just removed the costume when they had to move the body, didn't they?No, it can't be that they removed the costume in order to move the body... The reason for that is...  They couldn't remove it on their own / Once you wear it it doesn't come off / Removing it requires strength   It's impossible that they removed the costume just for moving the body... I mean...  I'm not sure why, but I can't take it off me! Can someone give me a hand? You should have at least made a costume you can take off on your own. I didn't make this! ...I think you can't remove it because of this clasp on the back. It's fastened very tightly. I guess there's no helping it. I'll unfasten it for you. I see... it is impossible to remove that costume without help... ...Is that really true? Maybe Hagakure was just lying back then? I...I wasn't lying! If he could remove it on his own, why wouldn't he take it off before we discovered him wearing it? What reason could he have to pull everyone's suspicions towards himself? T...that's right!  So, is it really true that Justice Robo couldn't have pushed that dolly...? That means that the culprit who carried body could not have been Hagakure wearing the Justice Robo costume. Wait a second, everyone. Aren't you forgetting something? I took a photo... You all saw it, didn't you? Yamada-kun was carried away by that suspicious person... If that suspicious person isn't the culprit, what was that all about? Furthermore, Yamada-kun told us before he died... How did you get these wounds...?  He hit me... Are you talking about...? It was Justice Robo... I just decided on the name now... As long as we have this evidence, the conclusion is unavoidable. The culprit is that suspicious person... that is, Hagakure-kun. She's right! It's him after all!  W...wait a second...!  It's still early to come to a conclusion. We can make our decision at any time... Before we do that, isn't it best to discuss other possibilities? Instead of looking at it from a single point of view, examining an incident from multiple view points is often helpful in reaching the truth. But what should we do, concretely? Let's summarize everything that happened from the very beginning. Something new may come up...  Feh! How bothersome!! Our lives are on the line. It may be bothersome but it is necessary...  Kirigiri-chan wasn't even with us when it all happened, so she might learn something she doesn't know! Well, then, let us turn back to when it all started once more. It all started this morning...
orenronen fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 02:32 |
| # ? May 6, 2012 18:14 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 08:31 |
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I fully realize I don't have the updated evidence bullet list up yet. I'll get to it soon. Honestly, this update took three times as long as it usually takes me, and I had to record almost everything multiple times until I got it right. Thankfully, I think I have the process down now.
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| # ? May 6, 2012 18:16 |
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