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The vibe I've been getting from Idol Assistant Maizono is "I'm gonna flirt with this sucker so that he can be my fall guy when I need one." Already she's setting Naegi up to do her dirty work: "Find me a weapon. Oh, YOU'LL protect me? I guess I don't need one!" I have a feeling that "defending her" is, at some point, going to basically involve Naegi being her murder weapon, or Naegi shielding her from blame for a murder she committed. cokerpilot posted:have some fan art It's worth it, though, to see the Corncob Haircut shattering screen. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 21, 2011 around 08:20 |
| # ¿ Nov 21, 2011 08:14 |
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| # ¿ May 20, 2013 09:12 |
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This is what I see going down: in the morning, all the evidence for the inevitable leads back to Naegi's room. Like a sucker, he allowed himself to be framed. Either that, or several murders down the line, something that Maizono hid in Naegi's room implicates him, taking the heat off her. Of course, that's if this were just a story. Because this is a videogame, and Naegi needs to be the person SOLVING the mysteries, I can't see him being fingered as a prime suspect, because then his judgement wouldn't matter. At least, nobody is going to suspect him until maybe in the very endgame, because that would ruin the "game" aspect of this.
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| # ¿ Nov 21, 2011 20:32 |
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Munin posted:On a different note. It looks like there are two flavours of videos. One the generic "your entire family has been killed" one the other more finely tailored to the target. Or maybe everyone has something finely tailored to their weaknesses, but Naegi is so boring the only thing Monobear could think of is "well, I'll just make it look like I killed his family".
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| # ¿ Nov 21, 2011 20:43 |
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Micawber posted:> Touko may have a crush on Togami Elite posted:Naegi, are you sure that you're perfectly average and normal? Because recent events paint you as quite "special". I have a feeling that whatever Naegi's strength is, he's entirely unaware of it but it's extremely obvious to everyone else. Notice that none of his classmates are asking him why he's there -- nobody got a list of everyone else's "specialties", Naegi just looked them all up on 2c. So the whole "luck" thing, presumably, is something only Naegi and the school officials know about. Yet apparently Naegi doesn't seem out of place to his classmates. I'm betting there's a REAL reason Naegi was selected, but the school made up the "luck" thing to hide it from him for some reason. In which case, if it only says "luck" on his school files, that's all that Monobear would know (I'm assuming that monobear has taken the school and/or these kids from the REAL school administration, and only knows what's on these kids' files). Actually, I think my logic here is getting pretty sloppy. But in any case, there's probably something more to Naegi than he knows about. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 21, 2011 around 23:05 |
| # ¿ Nov 21, 2011 23:01 |
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About Kirigiri's map, too: Didn't all of the students find that their luggage had mysteriously disappeared when they passed out? I was under the impression that they didn't have anything left from the outside world but the clothes they're wearing -- even their pockets were emptied. That means that Kirigiri probably DIDN'T bring the map in from before this all started -- and if she did, she's unique in being allowed/able to keep her belongings.
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| # ¿ Nov 22, 2011 03:39 |
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It was probably something like a video of her Idol group onstage with someone else in her place. Or something that implies that she hasn't been replaced YET, but might be very soon (ie a video of her manager with another girl, like someone said earlier). Since Monobear (or the whoever's controlling him) seems to have a way of knowing things, I'd suspect that Mondo Oowada's video has to do with the promise that he will do absolutely anything to keep.
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| # ¿ Nov 22, 2011 05:58 |
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I say the neon pink blood works stylistically with the paper-cut-out rooms and the multicolored lights in the hallways. I would EXPECT these characters to bleed what looks like glow-in-the-dark paint, in this setting. The style of this game is very much "let's make dreamlike and colorful be super-dark". Blastinus raises a good point that this murder most likely took place in the morning while people were starting to gather for breakfast, and not in the middle of the night. Maizono agreed not to answer the door until into her room at night. Someone probably got in by knocking on the door, and her letting them in thinking it was Naegi there to walk with her to breakfast. The bedrooms are entirely soundproof, so this murder could have JUST HAPPENED and nobody would have heard anything. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2011 around 19:54 |
| # ¿ Nov 22, 2011 19:51 |
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berryjon posted:Now placing my bet that this is all a giant fake-out. She's not really dead (as our protagonist never directly interacted with the body), and she might be trying to get out through whatever means Monobear has for disposing of the bodies. Ooh! And by switching rooms, she implicated Naegi as the killer, meaning he's the one that gets to go free! So she had a plan to save them both. That's a fun line of thought. Except, monobear has cameras everywhere. EVERYWHERE. I'm pretty sure he'd manage to differentiate between a suicide, a murder, and a fake death. And nobody would reasonably expect that the dead bodies will just be dumped, intact, on the curb somewhere.
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| # ¿ Nov 22, 2011 20:35 |
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You know, in retrospect, it makes perfect sense that Maizono is the first one to die (yes, of course in retrospect). Since all the characters are promised to be of "equal importance", they needed to squeeze in the most character development right away for the character who is going to die first. We were FORCED to spend our first "free time" with her, partly for tutorial purposes, partly so that we got to know this character before she was gone. You know how we can't get Sakura Oogami's skill until we've spent a three different "free times" with her? This means that we WILL have the opportunity to at least spend three different "free times" with her. So she's not going to die (or leave) until we've had at least two more free days. It has to be POSSIBLE to get at least one skill from each character. John McClane posted:I think it is as likely that maizono got killed trying to off someone and frame us. We have no evidence that someone knocked at her door, and we only have a promise from her that supports her not wandering. I am not inclined to trust that, given her instability. That's... a very good point. It STILL doesn't make sense that she asked to switch rooms. And someone could have gotten into her room most easily if she let them in... so she could kill them. And the fact that she encouraged Naegi to pick up and take home the sword with gold paint on it is STILL really drat suspicious.
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| # ¿ Nov 22, 2011 20:42 |
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Yeah, the more I think about it, the more this situation seems most likely: Maizono was trying to frame Naegi for a murder by killing someone in his room. She was obviously desperate to get out of the school, she was already talking about how she had to do ~bad things~ to achieve her ~dream~. She totally would have killed someone to escape. And think about it: what's a good way to kill someone but NOT be found out? Kill them in someone else's room! And she already made sure that he had a murder weapon in his room (and gold paint on his hand, tying that weapon to him). She had Naegi on a string, I don't think he would've even said anything to shift the blame back to her. We don't know how she got her potential victim into Naegi's room, but once she did, her plan backfired and they killed her. Maybe in self-defense, maybe purposefully taking advantage of the situation. Then, that person left and came to breakfast (obviously not saying anything about her trying to kill them because they want to escape, now that they've killed her).
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| # ¿ Nov 23, 2011 17:52 |
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Well. If someone "graduating" means that ALL OF the rest of the "students" are killed... I'm finding it harder to picture these students trying to "graduate." It's one (awful, depraved) thing to kill one peer in an attempt to escape a crazy hell-world. But to condemn a dozen others in the process, if they fail to stop you? Who would they think they can get away with that? What with the forced death-trial, "graduating" now sounds WAY more difficult, both to justify internally, and to pull off successfully. Anyway, I think Kiyotaka Ishimaru is really suspicious right now, simply because he said "This is no time for assemblies" which seems incredibly unlike him. He loves assemblies, wouldn't he normally want to call more assemblies in a crisis? Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 25, 2011 around 07:55 |
| # ¿ Nov 25, 2011 07:52 |
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Patware posted:What're the chances of us getting the 'bonus' events from spending time with a character that we didn't see soon after that character's death, instead of waiting for the end of the LP when they're a distant memory? I don't know if your setup makes that particularly difficult, or if you've got save files you can just crack open to whatever relevant moments and get the screencapping and translation done right there. Yeah, I'm very interested to see what we missed of Enoshima. But way at the end of this LP, I'll probably barely remember her and not care nearly as much (since I'll be all wrapped up in the game's finale, and invested in the remaining characters). To see the her content now, when it's "in context", would feel more appropriate. If you think that'd ruin the pacing, or if it's just impractical, I suppose I understand. I'm just not sure this'd feel "right" as bonus content after the LP is over. You're the one who knows the game, though! Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 25, 2011 around 08:44 |
| # ¿ Nov 25, 2011 08:42 |
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slouch posted:Another thing I've realized that might become a big deal later on in the story: As more and more of the gang are killed off, it becomes easier to just kill everyone than it is to try to pull off a perfect crime. Nobody left means nobody to convict you of your crime. Remember, Monobear's main motivation seems to be entertainment, and causing despair. He won't just go around killing everyone for no reason, because that doesn't accomplish either goal -- instead, he's tried to devise a ruleset that allows him to kill people, but also forces people to kill each other in a long, dramatic spectacle. If you try to cut this process short in any way, he won't want to continue sticking to his rules anymore. GetWellGamers posted:I'm betting in true tutorial fashion that Junko was the killer thus rendering the whole thing moot. I have a feeling that we'll still be able to vote for Junko during the trial. If she's the culprit, and we vote for her, the only difference is that she's already been executed. If she's the culprit and we select someone else, we got the answer wrong, plain and simple.
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2011 01:03 |
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SGRaaize posted:... berryjon posted:The possibility of cleaning up one's hair like that either emplies a certain meticulousness to them (Like our Hall monitor) I've suspected Kiyotaka Ishimaru ever since he said "This is no time for assemblies, right after that horrible thing that happened to Maizono-kun." Everything we know about his character implies that he'd normally WANT to gather everyone together to figure out what happened and prevent chaos. The fact that HE, specifically, said that an assembly shouldn't happen, seems incredibly suspicious to me. Of course, that's my only shred of evidence, so I can't call it more than a hunch. He doesn't seem to be the sort to plan a murder (favoring order over chaos), but I could totally see him killing in ruthless self-defense.
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2011 02:42 |
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Munin posted:Unrelated to the current murder, one thing everyone should remember is that Mr Monobear is a puppet, an avatar of whichever twisted gently caress is running this show. It's still not entirely clear if he's a puppet or sentient somehow. But whenever I talk about "what monobear wants", I usually mean to imply that, if he's a puppet, I'm talking about what his controller wants.
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2011 05:01 |
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orenronen posted:You know, I was wondering why no one was speculating about that. In retrospect, The Space Journey just shows Monobear inventively killing someone. And, well Monobear LOVES to kill people in inventive ways. So that just leaves questions: who was that, and why was monobear killing him? Well, it wasn't anyone we've met so far (going with Hairstyle as the distinguishing feature of most characters). And there's LOTS of reasons monobear might kill someone. But the video seems so disconnected from everything else we've seen, we don't really have any strands to speculate on. I mean, I can pull some random things out of thin air: 1) Someone from the "real" school. This shows Monobear while he's killing someone who was in the school before, as part of taking over the place for his dispair game. 2) This is what "graduation" is. But with nothing to go on, I have a feeling we won't be able to REALLY speculate on that video for a little while.
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2011 08:11 |
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You murder Makoto Naegi with old age.
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| # ¿ Nov 27, 2011 19:47 |
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Garlic Wall posted:I don't think Junko's the killer since I doubt the metaphysical shooting that is supposed to happen is going to very interesting if you are doing it to a corpse. Not necessarily. I think the action segment is going to be a metaphor for convincing your classmates. After you've done all the detective work, you've got to go through some sort of abstract shooting, and depending on how that goes, your classmates will either agree with your conclusion or disagree. You need to get a majority of them to vote for the real killer. At least, that's what I think would make the most sense.
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| # ¿ Nov 28, 2011 02:38 |
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Bocc Kob posted:It's still more grounded in reality than the "Maizono died attempting to kill someone else" theory. How so? Maizono was acting really suspicious that whole time we were hanging out with her (unless you really think we should take all her flirting at face value). She's shown that she's desperate for escape, whenever she gets freaked out enough to drop her guard. "I've had to do bad things to achieve my dreams, because they are that important to me." "I don't have TIME for all this!" And as she's asked for Naegi's help (let's face it, Naegi seems rather easy for a pretty girl to manipulate), she's asked him to do some weird things. "Naegi, protect me: take this weapon back to your room." "Naegi, I'm scared, so we should switch rooms tonight." I've suspected her of setting up Naegi for a framing way before last night's incident. And no other theory explains how there was someone else in the room at 1:30 am, when she promised Naegi that she wouldn't let anyone in. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 28, 2011 around 03:52 |
| # ¿ Nov 28, 2011 03:47 |
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It's been a day and a half since the last update, and I've been checking this thread frequently since hour 22 or so. The beauty of an LP thread that is truly spoiler-free. For a mystery story! If this game's story holds up to all the detailed scrutiny this thread gives it, that'll be a truly remarkable accomplishment. So far, signs are good, a lot of thought obviously went into this. Belzac posted:Well, I'm assuming even if the room is sound proof you would probably be able to hear the door handle jiggling as it's directly connected to the outside and the vibrations probably transfer. Or she could have been lying to him and Naegi was too much of a good guy to figure it out. EDIT: Dooky Dingo posted:Here's an idea. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 28, 2011 around 06:31 |
| # ¿ Nov 28, 2011 06:28 |
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Keeshhound posted:now I'm wondering if the door locks really can be removed; its a bit silly to brag about how unpickable the locks are and then give half of the "players" the ability to surpass them anyway. The BATHROOM doorknob can be taken apart with a screwdriver, the "unpickable" main door to the dorm room can't be.
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| # ¿ Nov 28, 2011 21:08 |
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Remember, the "11307 is LEON" thing wouldn't be nearly as obvious to a Japanese audience, or to Naegi. 1) Japanese players are probably FAR more familiar with arabic numerals than with english letters, and their eyes wouldn't do the instant pattern-recognition like ours do. 2) The game has not, so far, shown Leon's name spelled in english. His name is 桑田怜恩, and that's how it's been spelled the entire time. Sure, most Japanese could probably recognize english letters and figure out that L - E - O - N makes a sound like 怜恩, but it wouldn't be nearly so "DUH" in your face. And we can really forgive the artists for things like "The letters aren't as smeared as they should be!" or "Those are really straight lines, for something drawn by a dying person!". This art is really stylized, and tiny visual details like that aren't usually going to be 100% literal. I mean, they had to make the letters readable for the player. If subtle visual details ARE important, then a character will mention them, to make it clear that it's part of the story and not part of the art style. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at Nov 29, 2011 around 01:18 |
| # ¿ Nov 29, 2011 01:15 |
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CrookedB posted:Most Japanese LPs are blind, huh? That's an interesting detail. I'm amazed he's able to put together as much logical thought as he is given the circumstances. I think he can be forgiven for a bad oversight or two.
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| # ¿ Nov 29, 2011 07:28 |
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Fangz posted:I do wonder what the long term plot of this is going to turn out. If each chapter, two students die (one a victim, one a culprit), by the end of the game, there's going to be very few left. Fangz posted:since Naegi is presumeably the best detective of the group.
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| # ¿ Nov 29, 2011 07:44 |
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Fangz posted:??? is smart enough to keep quiet about it, though. Naegi is the one who is probably going to drive the plot with respect to getting people convicted/cleared. Also, I think ??? is more likely super high school level murderer. The Saurus posted:How did we find that out though? It was just what Monobear told us right? Monobear is giving us information because none of he kids is a Super High-School Level Forensics Expert. There's no way they could analyze the dead body and figure out all the technical details that most modern murder-mysteries use. So monobear gives them a scrap of information that they might feasibly figure out if they had medical degrees or forensics experience.
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| # ¿ Nov 29, 2011 19:46 |
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malkav11 posted:I don't think there's any reason to believe the killer ever even noticed name plates had been switched. Notice that it's Leon who's still wondering "Naegi's room? But the nameplate..."
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| # ¿ Nov 30, 2011 14:01 |
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I expect that in the next update, we'll talk to the Fortune Teller, and he'll be upset because his crystal ball has gone missing. And there'll be some detail about its disappearance that hints at who stole it. e: Beat by FrancisYorkPatty.
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| # ¿ Nov 30, 2011 21:28 |
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It seems like the characters with the most detail to their story are going away first. The game is obviously trying to be subtle about it, but it did try to cram in a ton of development for Maizono before she died, and Leon, out of all the bit-part-characters, has a slightly more complicated history: He's a baseball superstar, BUT he aspires to be a musician. That's, like, twice as complicated as any other character's backstory (so far). So I think that the very flattest characters will actually last longer, waiting in the background to be fleshed-out later when there's a smaller cast. Keeshhound posted:This:  Actually, I think that could easily match Leon's sleeves.
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| # ¿ Nov 30, 2011 23:47 |
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Bocc Kob posted:Except the buttons are in entirely different places. I think it's just that the buttons are in BOTH of those places. We're seeing the sleeves from the other side in these two pictures. The single button we see when Leon's arms are folded -- that's like the button you use to fold back your sleeves, if anybody ever actually used those sorts of buttons, which they don't. I can't seem to find a picture of leon with the underside-of-his-arm part of the sleeve showing, where the flap-part-with-two-buttons WOULD be. But the general shape of the sleeves, like with the width of the "collar" or whatever, seems to match. God, I do not have the right vocabulary to talk about sleeves in this much detail. Who woulda thought. FrancisYorkPatty posted:He's wearing a jacket over a shirt that could have long sleeves. He sure is doing a lot to cover up his wrists in that photo. 
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| # ¿ Nov 30, 2011 23:57 |
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Keeshhound posted:We don't know that she I don't think she was a crazy STALKER, I'm under the theory that most of her flirting with Naegi was just to be manipulative.
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| # ¿ Dec 1, 2011 00:49 |
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Thordain posted:Here's the one thing that bothers me, why would Maizono use English characters in her dying message? I get that they are probably simpler looking than Japanese characters, but why would she realize that in her dying moments? Doesn't seem quite right to me.
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| # ¿ Dec 1, 2011 20:41 |
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Meis posted:Assuming she did write it and it's not a case of the killer writing it in the victim's blood after killing her, to try and frame Leon, as seen in Death on the Nile (and I think I mentioned that before but whatever, point still stands)
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| # ¿ Dec 2, 2011 02:10 |
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Every Japanese PLAYER might instantly recognize it as upside-down english. But they realize this is a game, and know that every clue has to make sense in some game-like way. Naegi, and the other characters, are in the middle of a bunch of very traumatic events, and it's understandable that they wouldn't figure out stuff like that instantly. Basically, it's easier to figure out obvious clues when you're playing a game, detached from any real sentiment, and it's perfectly realistic that the characters wouldn't notice something obvious that the player would.
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| # ¿ Dec 2, 2011 03:14 |
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flatluigi posted:So much suspense! I hope the entire rest of the chapter is in the next update! (Though I'd understand fine if it isn't.)
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| # ¿ Dec 3, 2011 06:53 |
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HenryEx posted:... Also, real classy shot on Swimming Girl there. Real classy, Game. It's actually kind of refreshing that it's not every female character.
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| # ¿ Dec 3, 2011 21:10 |
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Giovanni_Sinclair posted:Am guessing since this is a tutorial all of right incorrect statements are highlighted? Anyway it seems be to a cool part of the game and can't wait for the next update for more. I take it that in the future, there will be multiple highlighted statements ("weak points"), and you need to figure out which ones to shoot with which "evidence bullets." There might even be more weak points than bullets, in the future? It's certainly a great way to combine puzzling with action.
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| # ¿ Dec 4, 2011 22:41 |
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slouch posted:I dunno, it's not too hard to figure out what needs to be shot without the highlighting effects. You just have to pay attention to everything people say and be ready to shoot when the time comes. Like a faster paced Phoenix Wright interrogation. If the truth is, "she hit him with the board and then jammed the door with a crowbar", what word do you shoot if someone says "she attacked with the crowbar"? Do you shoot "attacked" or "crowbar"? The highlighting is there to divide the dialogue up into chunks and remove ambiguity. I'm sure that it'll be a difficult enough mental challenge when there are lots of different highlighted sections and you need to choose which one to shot with what bullet.
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| # ¿ Dec 5, 2011 00:04 |
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Here's some things I got out of the trial so far: 1) Hall Monitor Kiyotaka Ishimaru was, predictably, "leading" the discussion (that is, he was talking the most). I expect this will be the standard in most trials, up until he kills or is killed. 2) Baseball Bro Leon Kuwata is spearheading the case against us, of course (it's gotta happen during the "tutorial" trial that the killer is obvious like that). 3) Literary Girl Touko Fukawa is also extremely accusatory. Probably just her personality. But it means she's probably not going to be much help in ANY trial. Also, if she ever kills someone, it'll... it'll be very hard to tell if she's being defensive. 4) Kyouko "Miss ???" Kirigiri is the voice of reason. She's just about the only person with the ability to freely say "Now let's not jump to conclusions" without risking suspicion then turned on her. 5) Monobear was impatient and clarified that there's only one killer. It must be really frustrating for him, sitting there knowing the answer, watching the students go off on totally dumb and irrelevant tangents. He's not a very disciplined little robot toy. He's trying to use discipline, because structure causes despair better than chaos does. But... it seems like chaos is more natural to him, and he mostly just wants to have fun with this.
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| # ¿ Dec 5, 2011 04:06 |
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Yeah, if you're the only person left alive, you're the only person left to vote. You vote for someone else, welp, looks like you were declared innocent. BUT... Monobear, I think, is only dedicated to the rules so far as they advance his agenda. He created a system with rules because that advances despair more. Remember, despair is his objective. If you do something to short-circuit the process, and ruin all his fun, he's not going to be happy with you. I think killing everyone all at once would ruin Monobear's fun -- he apparently wants this to be a long, agonizing process of loss. I doubt he'd say "well, you completely ruined my game, but TECHNICALLY you won, so I suppose I have to let you free." Like I said in the post above, he said "too much" because he was tired of the line of argument the students were following. He basically cheated and put them back on to the correct path, because of a whim. The rules... are just an excuse.
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| # ¿ Dec 5, 2011 04:18 |
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| # ¿ May 20, 2013 09:12 |
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Bocc Kob posted:I wonder what Monobear meant when he said if the culprit manages to fool everyone, they'll get to "publicly" graduate the school. That ties into the question of, "what the hell is going on in the outside world?" Apparently this is a very famous school, that SHOULD have tons of other students, who SHOULD be communicating to people they know outside the school. How the hell did Monobear or his creator manage to get away with loving with such a high-profile place?
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| # ¿ Dec 5, 2011 04:38 |
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