|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Also, L5R players; what are good forums? And what should I buy to start out. gently caress it I'm gonna buy some and force someone in my playtest group to learn. There really aren't any good public L5R forums anymore, and this link gives a pretty good explanation as to why. http://www.alderac.com/forum/index.php is the official forum but it's mostly just noise and bad players complaining about whatever. Second City and Before the Dawn are the two most recent expansions and most of those cards will be legal for the new Emperor edition story/legality arc which is going to be released in december or january, so they're safe buys in the sense that the cards will be tournament legal for a few years, but it might be worth waiting for the emperor release as the emperor starter decks are apparently constructed to not be totally worthless, prior to emperor the starter decks are half fixed and half randomized so you can end up with cards that don't fit the deck well/at all. You might also be able to use the pdf decklists at http://www.l5r.com/news/emperor-edition-special-demo-decks/ in combination with l5rsearch.com and preview images on the alderac forum to print off some demo decks and give that a shot. The full Emperor edition rules haven't been released yet, only some preview-style articles on what's changing from Celestial rules. If you really want to learn prior to the EE release, your best bet is to find a local that already knows how to play and can teach you with actual cards/decks (http://www.l5r.com/stores/). If that's not an option, the rules wiki/comprehensive rules site (designed for rules lawyers) is, I think, the only real resource. The meat of the game is http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Sequence_of_play and http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Abilities_and_actions. The amount of players who show up to tournaments and don't understand the difference between actions and traits, and don't understand the process of taking an action (announce, target, pay costs, resolve effects) always surprises me. The most common mixup is that people pay costs before targeting, which doesn't matter in most cases, but when it does it causes them to lose games. I don't know if we need a thread specific to the L5R ccg yet, the last few attempts I've seen were lucky if they made a page before dying. Maybe when EE is actually released.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 09:33 |
|
|
# ? Apr 17, 2024 21:52 |
Thanks for the info. How good are the Scorpion Clan? They look the most interesting from the quick writeup on page 3. Also, is the Xmas collectors edition special thing a good deal?
|
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 12:59 |
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Thanks for the info. How good are the Scorpion Clan? They look the most interesting from the quick writeup on page 3. The Xmas pack is a good deal every year. I don't think I've ever seen a bad one.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 13:36 |
|
"[chavez posted:"] *After about 30 minutes of searching I can't seem to find out which ones these even are. Last tie I looked into this I could. Well dang. Edit: I really do not understand where FFG are coming from with this. Do they really think that the number of triple-buy sales are offsetting the people turned off by the missing cards from the core? It's such a stupid thing to dig their heels in over. Just release a "core set completion" expansion for gently caress's sake Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Nov 19, 2011 |
# ? Nov 19, 2011 13:47 |
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Thanks for the info. How good are the Scorpion Clan? They look the most interesting from the quick writeup on page 3. Well, you're saving about $25 over the normal price of Forgotten Legacy, and that set has some real nice cards in it. Also, you can get use out of at least some of the promos included in the deal (Wyrmbone Katana in particular sells for $12+ at the online stores I checked out). I'll leave analysis of the scorpion for someone who actually plays them.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 13:47 |
|
vanPart posted:Well, you're saving about $25 over the normal price of Forgotten Legacy, and that set has some real nice cards in it. Also, you can get use out of at least some of the promos included in the deal (Wyrmbone Katana in particular sells for $12+ at the online stores I checked out). Scorpion alternate between being terrible and then awesome between arcs. They were pretty bad this arc, so I wager they'll be amazing in EE. Though I should point out Scorpion's traditional win condition is Dishonor, and they've already spoiled some ridiculous meta against it for EE, so maybe not. Dishonor has been the most NPE in the game for over a decade, and I think they've finally gotten TOO sensitive to it recently. Hail Mr. Satan! fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Nov 19, 2011 |
# ? Nov 19, 2011 14:18 |
What about Crane? That's my next Choice.
|
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 14:21 |
|
Crane players whine too much, and are pretty heavily stereotyped against, to begin with. Then, you have the fact that dueling has undergone a recent revision, and since dueling has been a principally Crane mechanic since the start of the game, it's going to be tough to see if that will change their position. However, I don't think that it will change things much, at least not with good player/deckbuilders, except for making things more technical and complicated- which I believe will give you an edge, if you're any good. Crane also are big believers in control deck assfuckery along with the scorpion, which is where that NPE brand comes from (Negative Play Experience.) In the hands of a good player, though, it can be a blast for both players, with the crane player only having so many ways to murder the slobbering beefwalls that have come to crush his personalities, drive them, lamentations, etc. etc., and having to judiciously choose which enemy poses the biggest threat.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 14:57 |
|
Doomtalker posted:(Negative Play Experience.)
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 16:39 |
|
Splicer posted:Are there any card games out there where the designers appear to have deliberately tried to make all builds not just fun to play, but also fun to play against? The current l5r design team has done a pretty good job of that, and EE is probably the most balanced I've ever seen the environment be. You also have to keep in mind that there are L5R players who will describe any card as an NPE if they've ever lost a game to it, it's way too overused by the community now. You pretty much can't go wrong with any of the clans in EE.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 18:57 |
|
chrisf posted:The current l5r design team has done a pretty good job of that, and EE is probably the most balanced I've ever seen the environment be. You also have to keep in mind that there are L5R players who will describe any card as an NPE if they've ever lost a game to it, it's way too overused by the community now. The fact that they've given it an acronym speaks volumes. I've never heard NPE used before, was it popularized by L5R players?
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 19:16 |
|
Lone Goat posted:The fact that they've given it an acronym speaks volumes. I've never heard NPE used before, was it popularized by L5R players? There was a card errataed or something back in diamond or lotus because it really did deform the environment, and the designer at the time said it was due to the 'negative play experience' it caused. The general L5R public latched on to that phrase just like the general internet with 'epic'/'fail' or the wow community with their whole verbs as nouns thing. Its basically used as a replacement phrase for 'card I don't like/don't want to see played against me' now.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 19:24 |
|
Lone Goat posted:The fact that they've given it an acronym speaks volumes. I've never heard NPE used before, was it popularized by L5R players? I don't know if they coined it, but I know it was used to describe Scorpion in past arcs. The problem with Dishonor is that it's an instant win the second you drop an opponent to -20 honor. So at times in the game's history, even the blitziest military decks would often lose in the middle of the battle over the Scorpion player's last province even if they were overwhelmingly going to take it. It's always been bullshit, especially when you note an Honor player needs to start a turn at 40 to win. Luckily, they are changing it in EE to be the end of a turn, so you still have a chance to take that last province. I have a feeling Dishonor is going to be very weak in EE, at least to start. They've previewed some really strong anti-dishonor meta, and they've stated a bunch of times that they are sick of watching every Crane/Scorpion match in a tournament go to time. I feel they are going to make Scorpion need to be more active in the game rather than sit back and just poo poo their hand all over the table for massive honor losses. And Scorpion players in the past are notoriously whining about having to actually participate... chrisf posted:There was a card errataed or something back in diamond or lotus because it really did deform the environment, and the designer at the time said it was due to the 'negative play experience' it caused. The general L5R public latched on to that phrase just like the general internet with 'epic'/'fail' or the wow community with their whole verbs as nouns thing. Its basically used as a replacement phrase for 'card I don't like/don't want to see played against me' now. Let's be fair though, Dishonor has been a NPE for almost 15 years.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 19:25 |
Are there any sites for L5R like https://magiccards.info where you can browse through card images? I've done some random googling for cards and usually get old shops with broken images sold out of everything. This thread makes me want to go tear up my parents' attic, I've got binders full of jyhad, spellfire and lord of the rings somewhere. I had a complete set of spellfire and ravenloft once but I think I broke it to help a friend complete his.
|
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 19:55 |
|
bagrada posted:Are there any sites for L5R like https://magiccards.info where you can browse through card images? I've done some random googling for cards and usually get old shops with broken images sold out of everything. https://www.l5rshop.com has all the cards, but they are missing a lot of images. AEG said with EE's launch they will have a functioning database with all art, kind of like Gatherer for Magic.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2011 20:06 |
|
bagrada posted:Are there any sites for L5R like https://magiccards.info where you can browse through card images? I've done some random googling for cards and usually get old shops with broken images sold out of everything.
|
# ? Nov 20, 2011 05:19 |
|
Near the end of the last arc, if playing against a duel honor run crane deck wasn't an NPE, I don't know what was. The fact remains that dueling, up until ee, has basically been "your crane personality destroys target personality". At worst, dishonor required you having to think more about what you played.
|
# ? Nov 20, 2011 05:26 |
|
Stormageddon posted:Near the end of the last arc, if playing against a duel honor run crane deck wasn't an NPE, I don't know what was. The fact remains that dueling, up until ee, has basically been "your crane personality destroys target personality". Heh, I have a friend who plays Crane duels and I have said essentially the same thing to in the past.It's especially frustrating that my main deck is Spider Monksai, so he essentially plays 1 card to kill a minimum 16-cost unit.
|
# ? Nov 20, 2011 14:02 |
I went to the only store in Hawaii that sells L5R today, I bought 6 packs and was given a "The Imperial Gift" for free. The guy said there isn't too many players anymore, but hopefully I can teach someone. I'm gonna build Spider, and Pheonix decks.
|
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 06:17 |
|
I got the "Imperial Gift" free expansions, a precon and some packs, and tried to teach my friends L5R. I was really fascinated by the game; it seemed like it had a lot more strategic depth than Magic or similar TCGs. Also, some M:TG players I really liked and respected talked the game up quite a bit. Dear God, it was a disaster. First of all, the "rules" included with the Imperial Gift are useless. I literally could not figure out how to play the game from those cards, and no full rules were included with anything I got. Here I was, $50 into the game, and no loving clue how to even play it. I looked a video up on youtube that at least let me know how to set up my decks and table and what the gently caress a province was, but the rules of the game were still baffling me. I found two rulebooks, the PDF for Celestial Edition and the online wiki-rules. Okay, I'm sorta getting it now. I did a playthrough with a very patient friend that involved a lot of page-flipping and do-overs. In the end we scuttled that match, having at least grasped the basics of it. Everything else was still arcane to us. Having satisfied myself that I could at least explain the basics of the game to friends, I played a few more matches with a couple friends in coffeeshops. Then it all came to a grinding halt with three words: "What's a duel?" gently caress. I had no idea. I remembered reading something about dueling, and knew it had to do with the "focus value" on the bottom of the green-backed cards. Later on, I found out (holy gently caress subgames in an already complex game), but we gave up on the game that day. One of the L5R guys at a local game shop demoed the game for me a month or so later, and it still managed to boggle my mind. I don't understand why the game needs to be so complex; it seems like it rewards system mastery on a level not seen in TCGs. The whole game is made up of layered subsystems and subgames, exponentially increasing the complexity at each step. TCGs are supposed to be based on simple base systems, with each card telling you how to play it. The sad part is that I still want to play it.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 14:16 |
|
The funniest part of your story is that the rules have gone through an enormous amount of revisions for simplicity and they are STILL that complicated. And whoever writes rule books for AEG should be fired. They are absolutely terrible.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 14:20 |
|
A Fancy Bloke posted:The funniest part of your story is that the rules have gone through an enormous amount of revisions for simplicity and they are STILL that complicated. And whoever writes rule books for AEG should be fired. They are absolutely terrible. Rulebook writing is really really important and i really wish more companies would invest more in the rulebook. Couple weeks ago, our game of Bloodbowl: Team Manager (at most ~1 hour game) went on for over 3 hours becuase the rules are just badly written. On the contrast, the rules for Dungeon Lords and Dungeon Petz are funny and engaging while both are complex games. In our boardgame club meetings, some mebers have picked up the rules for the afromentioned 2 games and read them on gaming downtime. They knew the rules. The rulebooks just were enganging enough on their own. But on topic. My friends were really into LOTR card game when we were kids. I had a deck that was heavily focused on re-forging Anduril (since I was the only kid in the block with the drat card, I had to showcase it). Then my friend got the One Ring, he never managed to win with it though as I got the Anduril on the table at least 50% of games . Good times. I've sold my cards though
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 14:34 |
|
BJPaskoff posted:World of Warcraft was the property most likely to compete with Magic. A huge dedicated fanbase, reasons for MMO players to buy the cards even if they didn't play with them, and mechanics lifted heavily from Magic so players of that game could easily transition over. If WoW couldn't steal Magic's thunder, no one can. When I was younger, during the CCG heyday, I always kept trying to come up with rules to mash cards from all different games together. This never really worked, but drat it the idea was too good to stop trying. Summoning a Craw Wurm at Hoth Echo Base to battle my brother's Unholy Strength'd Charmander wielding a blaster pistol is something you really have to experience for yourself.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 15:20 |
|
A Fancy Bloke posted:The funniest part of your story is that the rules have gone through an enormous amount of revisions for simplicity and they are STILL that complicated. And whoever writes rule books for AEG should be fired. They are absolutely terrible. Please show me the rules for how a card enters play. I still can't find them.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 15:20 |
|
Gau posted:Please show me the rules for how a card enters play. I still can't find them. http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Sequence_of_play#Dynasty_Phase for personalities and holdings. http://rules.l5r.com/CE_The_Player#Player_keywords.2C_abilities_and_values for attaching cards to personalities in play.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 15:23 |
|
Zero_Grade posted:Yeah if franchises like WoW, Pokemon, Yugioh, Star Wars (back in the day), etc couldn't unseat Magic, I don't see that changing for a very long time if ever. Magic has too much momentum behind it at this point and if anything it's somehow growing. I think I heard that Innistrad is the best-selling set ever (maybe the fastest, I'm not 100% positive). It's far too much of an uphill battle to seriously try to compete against, I imagine. Edit: I seem to recall some weird MtG combo where you could summon the jack of clubs.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 15:41 |
|
Burnsaber posted:Rulebook writing is really really important and i really wish more companies would invest more in the rulebook. Decipher was really guilty of having bad rule books for Star Wars CCG. In every expansion they were obsessed with having a new mechanic, which for brevity's sake was not explained on the card, only in the little rule book that came with starters or the splat page that came with each box. So if you didn't have the Dagobah splat sheet, you didn't know how asteroid fields worked, if you were missing the Hoth rules you didn't understand the shield generator, and even if you had the Cloud City rules, capturing by bounty hunters was explained so poorly that you may as well not even use it. The only time I've ever seen someone get captured by a bounty hunter is with a card that just straight up captures or kills an enemy if Boba Fett is there. They released a miniature rule book when the Special Edition set came out that actually resolved a great number of these problems by combining all of the rules together. However most of these rules were copy pasted and were not all that helpful. One example was Sniper, a card that let you fire a weapon really early in your turn and try to kill one of your opponent's characters before they could participate in a battle. The little rule book had lots of rulings on cards, but not important ones such as if you could use Sniper to kill an undercover spy, which is a character that pretends to be on your side but prevents you from controlling an area. The rules were written in such a way that either interpretation could work, I believe it said that Sniper targets an opponent's character, while the undercover rules said that an undercover spy couldn't be targeted by weapons during a battle. Add to this the fact that the "Sniper" taking the shot was Darth Vader and he was using a light saber to snipe and you can see how convoluted things could get. The other thing that really chapped my rear end was that they printed cards that specifically countered other cards. Imagine a Counterspell in Magic that said "Counter target spell named Splinter Twin." In early sets, that's all it did, no other utility, just hope your opponent is playing Splinter Twin. In later sets, they added the ability to cycle them for a minor effect, but with no sideboarding it was really a matter of knowing your opponent's deck. Add to this the fact that they printed most of these as Rares, and that they usually countered cards that had not even been printed yet and you can see why it was frustrating to open Star Wars packs.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 15:46 |
|
Decipher did similar things with their Star Trek game, which was the first CCG I played. They literally printed cards that referenced cards that didn't exist yet, some of which were never printed in the twenty-odd expansions they released. They kept adding new card types, subgames and rules with each expansion, and about 1/10 of the cards had errata or their rules text entirely rewritten. It became a game where you'd play your deck, and the other dude would play his, and you'd shoot past each other, just racing in a game of competitive solitaire. My friends and I were loathe to play the actual game; we used the cards to play a huge strategy-based card game with a two-dimensional board and all sorts of fun stuff to do (like colonize planets and negotiate diplomatic treaties). We spent long nights at 12, 13, and 14 playing those games. So much fun. If only they game they released would have been so enjoyable.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 15:58 |
|
I've played Rift Wars, which is basically the Star Wars CCG without Star Wars, and I enjoyed it, but being the only guy to own the game, it was basically DOA around here. I liked the mechanics, but drat that rule book. I also tried L5R and liked it, but only ever played like two games. Complexity scared off most of the players. The TCG I've been playing recently is The Spoils, which I can effort post about, but have been a bit gun shy since I got called a 'company shill' last time I talked about it seriously.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 17:06 |
|
L5R has always been a favourite of mine since the Hidden Emperor era, but I could probably count the number of actual games I've played on both hands. Its a pretty hard sell to a lot of people, on top of the aforementioned complexity. Some people see the theme and just assume its some sort of anime thing (which some of the worse artwork didn't help; the artwork is usually amazing but for a brief period a few years back they had utterly ridiculous styles) Speaking of Star Wars games though, does anyone remember the terrible failed CCG separate from the main Decipher one that came out around the time of Episode I? I remember buying into it before I saw the film- and becoming horribly disappointed at the cash-in product and the terrible film. I can't remember too much, but it was basically a Naboo v Trade Federation game (and yes, almost all the dark side/trade federation cards were worthless indistinguishable droids)
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 18:37 |
|
lighttigersoul posted:The TCG I've been playing recently is The Spoils, which I can effort post about, but have been a bit gun shy since I got called a 'company shill' last time I talked about it seriously. Shill or no, please do, I'd be interested at least.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 19:19 |
|
It'll probably go up tomorrow, got some projects to finish today.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 19:42 |
|
accordingtojosh posted:I use to make regular trips to Seattle to play in L5R tournaments that Tibbles would run at the WotC game center and then other locations. He use to run some really good tournaments and games at his locations and house. He was also guilty of posting bounties for a kotei season and never delivering on them. This is basically a "if you pick this storyline prize, I will reward you." Agreeing on L5R being one of the most balanced games I've played, and EE making it even better. As to the complexity of the game, here's a pretty solid breakdown of turn order: http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Sequence_of_play#Straighten_Phase. (skip the inviting allies portion of the attack phase unless you're interested in multiplayer) Anyone teaching you that includes things like dueling and the imperial favor in the first game is doing it wrong. They're not overly complex, but there's no reason to insist on throwing it all at you at once. I've found it is usually useful to have a military vs. military, as it means more interaction and generally more fun for the student.
|
# ? Nov 21, 2011 20:37 |
|
Splicer posted:Edit: I seem to recall some weird MtG combo where you could summon the jack of clubs. It wasn't really a combo, there was a card called 'Ring of Ma'ruf' that let you put any card from outside your deck into play.
|
# ? Nov 22, 2011 00:10 |
|
Does anybody know anything about Hyborian Gates? I have a couple of those cards lying around and I always wondered about the actual game.
|
# ? Nov 22, 2011 00:30 |
|
Does anybody know what WoW TCG card this art is from, I don't know where else to ask. The art is by Ken Steacy. Thanks
|
# ? Nov 22, 2011 07:07 |
|
Don't suppose it's Troll Shaman or Shaman Dodge? That'd clear this up pretty quick.
|
# ? Nov 22, 2011 07:20 |
|
Gravy Train Robber posted:Speaking of Star Wars games though, does anyone remember the terrible failed CCG separate from the main Decipher one that came out around the time of Episode I? I remember buying into it before I saw the film- and becoming horribly disappointed at the cash-in product and the terrible film. I can't remember too much, but it was basically a Naboo v Trade Federation game (and yes, almost all the dark side/trade federation cards were worthless indistinguishable droids) Young Jedi. It wasn't just the dark side droid army, there were just so few stats and abilities on cards that all of the cards were pretty drat indistinguishable. It was also released by Decipher, as a "for beginners" product, which of course was compltely uninteresting and idiotic like most card games designed for that purpose (later on, Decipher released the Beyblade TCG, which was targeted at kids so little that they claimed you could play it without knowing how to read). It was also one of the THREE Star Wars CCGs Decipher made. edit: Google tells me that particular Stacey art was being sold at auction in 2006, so it would have to be commissioned for one of the first few sets; I played the game at that time and don't remember any card that looked like that, and a quick scan of troll allies and shaman abilities from the first four sets of the game leaves nothing that looks like that. I think that art was commissioned but never actually used for a card. Huitzil fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 22, 2011 |
# ? Nov 22, 2011 07:21 |
|
Xiahou Dun posted:Don't suppose it's Troll Shaman or Shaman Dodge? Nope, I already checked. Is there a dedicated wowtcg thread?
|
# ? Nov 22, 2011 07:44 |
|
|
# ? Apr 17, 2024 21:52 |
|
Magicpokey posted:Does anybody know what WoW TCG card this art is from, I don't know where else to ask. According to this database, nothing yet? I don't how accurate that database is, but it's possible that the card is in a set that hasn't been released yet, or that the card the art was supposed to go on got killed/reassigned. Did you try asking Ken if he knows what card it's from?
|
# ? Nov 22, 2011 10:18 |