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After lurking quite a bit I noticed quite a bit of people asking about, what to do in an interview, what job in IT is best for them, Certs/Education, and pay, I decided why the hell not just make a thread about it, COBOL has one so why not for this sub forum. Please feel free to ask any questions if you are considering a job in the IT field Basic Topics I want to address 1. What IT is and what it isn't 2. Education 3. Finding a Job/Interview 4. Things you probably should know in day to day 5. Resources for learning 6. Job Titles/Career paths -- IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO READ ANY OF THIS AND ASK 'WHAT DO I DO?' PLEASE PUT THOSE QUESTIONS IN THIS FORMAT Experience: What do you do currently for work? What prior jobs, and experiences with computers have you had? How long have you had these experiences? Schooling/Certs: Any all schooling, Certificates. Area's of interest: What do you like about computers? What area do you think is interesting to you? Skill set: What traits and qualities do you hold? Is it networking? Fixing viruses? Teaching? Area: We don't want your house address or anything, but a general area this will REALLY help in the advice you get. If you live in the middle of the Artic and people giving you advice to look in your local area might not be helpful. Example you posted:Hi, My name is $poster$ and I didn't read the OP, I just want to ask what I should do! If you do it like this you will get a much better answers, much faster; because I can guarantee you will get 2-3 posts asking you "What is your experience, what are you into, what is around you?" -- I will try to update this thread as much as I can, The purpose is to help people who are unsure about a future in IT to ask and see what it is like to work in the field Please feel free to contribute any EXP to this thread if you have and words of wisdom. 1. What IT is and what it isn't In modern day IT has become a buzz word for "I know how to turn a computer off and on", while knowing some of the basics of computers may make you a bit more useful in the job market, getting by on the bare minimum will make you an alchy fast. The biggest misconception for IT jobs is Customer Service Rep, I can't believe how many times I have been contacted in by a random recruiter offering me a "Fast Paced, Exciting career in IT" Only to get to the end of the Conversation where I hear "I just need to make sure you are comfortable communicating with clients over the phone". If you want Experience, this is a good option but I don't know of many people who actually enjoy doing this for a living. While it is "IT" you will spend more time playing the fool for some stupid SLA's, dealing with the stupidest people, or escalating for X than you will actually fixing the problem. So what is IT? Information Technology generally deals with making services and users can interact in a fashion that business continuity can be maintained. This means, you make sure your systems, servers, network, and platforms are running so people(if you consider end users this) can work. While IT is critical to any modern day company over a decent (50 user) size, you need to remember that you only support the business's needs, you do not lead it. Other things IT isn't 1. A not going to work a weekend job, Don't bother if working 6-8 days a week scares you. 2. Slack, While you may be able to automate most of your job until you do don't expect a cake walk 3. Secluded to 1 area of the company, You will probably be the Handy Man/Mover when the company doesn't want to pay someone else, because "Hey, it isn't like you do anything anyways" 2. Edumacation and Certifimacations  Step 1 Do Not believe things like this https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/s...eer-Roadmap.pdf AVOID THINGS LIKE PASS4SURE, GARUNTEED PASS, CERT KING, REAL EXAMSIf you do not have any experience in the field with what cert you want, you are going to gently caress yourself and waste a lot of money  B-But I was told after getting my A+/MCTS/S+ or CCNA, I would be making 50-75k!Wrong! While IT may be one of the better fields both pay and job demand wise , they aren't going to give you jack swat over the bare minimum they can. To get any decent numbers like the graph above you will need some ample experience, a degree, or knowledge, other wise they will hire the next person in line. But in my area they pay more! I make 50k with just an A+!Congrats and the cost of living is probably more. If it isn't then go for a job, you are a lucky SOB or have 2-5+ yrs exp which at that point Certs are just nice to haves. I got a 4 year Degree and can't find any work?As far as things like Net/Systems Admin, Net/Systems Engineer, IT Tech. You'll Tend to see small-medium size companies look more for EXP, and Large companies look for a degree, this is in my experience anyways. NOTEDo not confuse what I am saying with, "Hurr durr Degrees r useless in dis field" they are very handy and you should look into AT LEAST an AAS degree. Which Came first the Cert, The Degree, or The Experience This is a tough one as I have found a good amount of people in IT don't actually have a college degree or certs. Yes believe it or not you can get a decent paying job just based off experience! It may take you a little longer to get there and you may have to work in the poo poo mill that is Help Desk, but after 2-3years and some Server/Network knowledge there isn't much keeping you from a Jr. Systems Admin. So how should YOU do it? School AVOID SCHOOLS LIKE ITT TECH, ECPI, Pheonix, or any other online or not state school. Seriously these places are in it for one thing only, your money. I myself know people who have gone there and people who worked there, They will pass you regardless whatever, rack up a nice 80K loan, and then pop you into some Help Desk position at 30k/yr. You are better going off to a Comunity College or State 4yr college getting at least a AAS and a cert or 2 then getting a Bachelors in IT at a pro profit school . This doesn't mean you won't learn anything it just means employers won't laugh you out of an interview, and you will have saved a load of time and money. What degree to get? This depends on the school, Some smaller colleges may only have you run through Programming Languages, others may space you out in what you do. You'll have to look at your course outline and really nit pick it to find out what is best for you. I went with an AAS as I didn't really want to do a 4yr and picked up a few certs(Working on VCAP-DCA/CCNA/S+) and am well off. You just need to find what part of IT interests you most and research it. I am incapable of research, What degree is right for me?It really depends on what you want to do, and how fast you want to get there. Associate Degree If you are unsure about the IT field, but you know you want to go into it, check out you local Community College. Great part about a Community College is that there is a very good chance you will get to meet people in the field, deal with teachers that work into the field, costs loads less, and transfer your credits to a big name college later. While it may not see the most prestigious you will get out faster, and spend ~1/3rd the cost, and still be able able to transfer most all the credits. If you want to be a Technician-Jr. Systems/Net Admin this is probably the most practical degree for you. Bachelors Great degree to avoid the tier 1 BS, also opens up a world of opportunities and will probably get you making a bit more cash at the end of the day. Great thing about a 4yr Degree is most state colleges offer some decent internships which will give you about 4yrs EXP + a degree which will get you a job most places. If you want to go into EE, or CE this is a minimum. If you are wanting to go into Engineering, Management, Teaching(below college level), or Administration, this is more practical than a AAS Masters If you are going for this you more than likely know what you want to do. If you plan to go into IT you'll probably get thrown into a management spot, CE/EE's will really like the pay boost and how fast they get a job in this as long as they can keep a >3.5 That said, Schooling is great to inject you in the field it opens up internship opportunities, most employers will sub a degree for X years of EXP, gain the ability to work hands on with things, and will make you more comfortable with many different pieces of equipment. Certs See this thread for more details Certs are wonderful way to get a much better job if you already have EXP in the field or want to get noticed by more people for proving you know something! There are many kinds of certs Vendor Specific Certs from MS, Cisco, Vmware, Red Hat; These tend to focus on Specific Products release by each company, ie getting an MS cert would not help you much in a Linux environment. non-vendor specificCompTIA hold this spot, offering things like A+, Net+, S+ which basically give you a general understanding of concepts in each area, these are geared more toward entry level but don't think you shouldn't look into these, especially if you want to work for the Government where an A+/N+/S+ is pretty much needed for a spot. Certs can land you a job faster, if you lack a degree or EXP, but you will want to look into CompTIA's offerings first, then follow up with a vendor specific. You also may want to consider grouping certs, A+ is a nice cert to have but it it is almost useless if you are going for a MCSE; on the other hand getting an A+ on a Microsoft Certified: Desktop Admin/Support may look a little more appealing to an HR/recruiter. DoD standard What does that have to do with anything? Basically if you want to work for a Government Org you'll need a S+, and a MS cert won't help quote:The trick to getting your foot in the door there: Entry level work Now if you have been fooling with a computer for any given length of time, and you know the basics something like HellDesk, or Bench Tech may be right up your ally! These probably aren't the most fun jobs out their but at least they are jobs with exp. Other things you may want to consider 1. Do some Labs, fire up a virtual machine and build a Server/client network, play with a linux distro learn some commands, fiddle with your router some. 2. Talk to some people in the field, I don't know to many people who will turn you down for asking them to gloat about themselves 3. Buy a book, it won't bite you and worst case is you get a cure for your insomnia 4. Just because you have a degree/cert/EXP doesn't mean you will get the job instantly Now onto our next part, finding your YOTJ! 3. Finding a Job/Interview Here comes the real fun because unless you have EXP, Cert, a friend/family in the field, or (some)Degree finding anything can be a HUGE challenge. Looking for work? Have EXP? Dice.com Monster.com In school want and/or EXP and want a wide range of things? Indeed.com careerbuilder.com Just want A job? cragislist.org Got Active Clearence? ClearanceJobs.com or usajobs.gov I have had quite a bit of luck with indeed, you may want to follow up a resume with a phone call, if a smaller business. I can't find what is in my area of 20miles! I though IT was in demand!Welcome to the 21st Century Cadet! You may have to move out of your mothers basement for some jobs, If you have a clean record, DC is a great place to work if you have an S+ and a degree of some sort, 60k is not out of the question with 1-2yrs exp. Also check around Cities, Capitols, and Sea/Air Ports, many of these places are itchy for some people Large or small company This is a tough one, because it really depends on you. GENERALLY Larger Companies you will get more pay/bennys at the cost of being treated like a human, Smaller companies tend to pay less but make up for it in treating you more sensible. Just research the company before you sign on use glassdoor to see if a large company is decent First thing is First, The interview, assuming you wrote a correctly spelled cover letter and aren't bullshitting it(if you want help check out this thread for a top notch resume/coverletter). You need to be prepared DO  wear a clean suit, or dress up nicely Make sure to shower Be sociable, talk say hi, make small talk Be honest, if you don't know the answer to something talk out the troubleshooting steps, say where you would look, Don't bullshit, again, don't act like you know it all, more than not you will get hired for being easy to work with rather than having an acclaimed know it all who won't ask for help. Show up early, about 10 minutes early Make eye contact, use your hands when you speak, and speak clearly, even if you are shy once you get the job this is the only impression they have of you, make it count. Keep the conversation moving, don't spend to much on yourself or a question, no one likes dead air. Document EverythingDON'T  Show them your neck beard, please shave Correct people, they may say you are wrong about a question that you answered right so do politely correct them but don't be snooty about it:cry: do the opposite for the Do's Salary negotiations Sarcasmatron posted:Whatever other advice is given, please take the time to read this: 4. On the job Now assuming you were accepted, now begins the daunting task of learning how bad it really is. Good tips to follow include, taking notes, talking to coworkers, ASK QUESTIONS, USE LAYMAN TERMS and act polite. Do this as long as you can and vent poo poo here or subdue it with booze like the rest of us. Remember to always get something in writing, otherwise it didn't happen, there isn't too much else I can say on this subject as it really depends on the environment. Also be prepared to work with idiots in management, you can get lucky and work with some amazing people, but a fair amount of managers lack IT skills and only see money and hours. From my experience I can say I have noticed the following in the work force: Call Center You jump through SLA's and Customer Service, and are more or less treated like cattle. If you can jump through the SLA's, CS, and be on time you won't have a stressful job, just a dead end one. Also be prepared to support lovely coded apps that break constantly, most apps are lowest bidder wins deals. Colleges Pretty sweet gig, although be prepared for things to be moved slowly, also expect heavy workloads in the summer which is when most of the server upgrades, site changes will occur. Other than that most state colleges are decently well run, sometimes you can even get practically free education. But be prepared for a lot of paper work, kids blaming you for them failing, and idiot teachers asking you to fix everything. IT firms Also a nice place to work with, chances are you will only do real work when one of your clients needs help, and depending on the size can be a slow or fast environment. It is a good place to get a little taste of everything in the IT field and you get to drive/fly to client sites. 6. Titles: Welcome to HR hell Job titles have to be the worst part about finding a job in IT mostly because HR's don't know jack squat about IT. This tends to be a problem more in Small-Medium size businesses where the HR usually is the secretary with a bit more work on her plate, so copying and pasted from X site from google doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Titles are thrown about in such a manner sometimes you won't really have a good understanding on what you'll be doing until the interview or first day. I have seen jobs for "Systems Administrator" when all the position is is Help Desk L2 support, I have seen "Help Desk" as Network Admins, but I will try to give a sensible understanding of positions/titles and what they do, not the way wiki tells you but how you'll experience it when you get out there. :swoon: PLEASE REMEMBER THAT YOU SHOULD DO WHAT YOU LOVE THE MOST, NO ONE CARES ABOUT PRESTIGE OTHER THAN NERDS ON THE INTERNET :swoon: Hell Desk - Phone There are two kinds of Help Desking, in phone and in person, Phone support sucks, not that the issues are too hard or the sitting on your bum all day, just SLA's and Customer Service rules that cock-block your job. Most any one "Good with computer" can do this job. Half the time you'll be trying to fix the issue, the other half you'll be hopping through SLA's and making sure the user is "happy". If you don't know what SLA's are some are like "No more than 10 seconds of silence", "You must tell the customer XYZ before the call ends", or "If the customer demands your first born give them it". This job is great if you aren't well motivated, can jump through hoops, and show up on time, in which you'll have a decent paying job for a long time. This doesn't mean you'll never be anything higher than phone monkey, just that you will be one in 500 in the company looking for the same way to work up to teir 2. Help Desk, IT Technician - IRL Welcome to physical hell, if you don't like dealing with people in person you have come to far. While you my be the company mover, light bulb changer, and many other things you'll get to experience a lot more client/server/network issues and get to see how they interact which each other. Generally your day will consist of trivial things such as "Printer/Flashdrive/Phone won't get detected when plugged in", or "Set up this projector in the meeting room 15 minutes ago", while this cane be bullshit at times, be aware that when everything is working, in smaller businesses you are basically non-exsistant and can do pretty much anything in your free time. This job is best suited for someone who might like to be a Jr./Sr. Systems Admin, you'll get a deal of server exp and a deal of client support, which is what Systems Admins Positions usually want. :bahgawd: Never tell your company you are doing nothing, at least open up task manager and have network and CPU, then you look like you are working, otherwise I hope you like doing every job known on earth for the company. Jr. SYSTEMS Admin So now you made it to SA, you are now the Sr. SA's bitch(not really), but you are going to have to deal with a lot of the crap he doesn't want to; such as more user support, doing various projects, configuring Phones for outlook, and a lot of other things you would be doing as a IT Technician. Yes, these positions are VERY similar and chances are HR's will mislabel them, however it generally you'll be doing more Network/Server work in companies who use the terminology correct. This job is great if you have strong knowledge is client Operating Systems, ie Win7/XP/OSX, and know a little about windows/linux servers and network functions Sr. SYSTEMS Admin You'll deal with all of Jr. SysAdmins mistakes(if you have one), developing and testing servers, networking, meetings, budgeting, and lots of office political BS. While you should be doing a lot of server work or monitoring and testing, you'll quickly realize that a lot of your job can be scripted and automated. Knowing PowerShell, Perl, and/or Batch files can really make your job 100x easier, you will probably want to know a bit of coding/scripting by the time you get here. Expect to deal with multiple OS's, 3rd party products, and network switches. You'll enjoy this job if you can multitask well, draw concepts together, and plan things out. Be prepared for doing meetings, budgeting and Overtime. Note about IT Techs, Jr./Sr. SYSADMINS, these jobs are very similar in smaller businesses they may all be considered the same thing, you'll need to evaluate the job posting and the interview to see what you'll be doing Please also note that Network Admin and Systems Admin are used interchangeably quite often Systems engineer This is an Admins big brother, but the jobs role is not excluded to an engineer. Chances are in this field you will be building servers/networks, automating them and giving then to clients or customers. If it sounds like Systems Admin you are right, most engineers however more or less build them and then trouble shoot system issues, admins usually run day to day tasks and light Tshooting. You won't see this much in small to medium businesses (1-350 seats), you will however see these positions in IT firms, multi-site and Large businesses. This is great if you love to dig down into a server fix performance/stability issues and deal with many kinds of OS's. Again, Please also note that Network Admin and Systems Admin are used interchangeably quite often Network Administrator/Engineer This job is a bit tricky, more than not this term is confused with systems admin. Network admins/engineers tend to be dealing in large companies, IT firms, or multi-site businesses. Networking is pretty simple as long as you can notate, plan out, and take things step by step. If you choose to go into this one field a Cisco Cert is considered GOLD, generally CCNA for Admin, CCNP for Engineers. Networks are pretty self sufficient know so most of the issues you will be dealing with are Bandwith and VPN monitoring, VoIP performance, and some general security. You'll like this job if you like analyzing performance, light security, and have/like dealing with telecommunications. Virtualization Admin/Engineer This is the new kid on the block, You'll be dealing with most all OS's in some way, Networking, Database management, Backups and loads of other things. Chances are you will work for a large company, or IT Firm. This is great if you can understand concepts fast and like making fully automated/redundant systems. Database Management Do you like always thinking 3 steps ahead, always plan for the worst case scenario, like tracking down which node is taking the most I/O, do backups give you a boner? DBA is for you! DBA is a critical part of many companies as your job is pretty much, don't let the data be lost. Your going to have get familiar with Oracle and/or SQl server and always have 3 plans for things. This is a good job for people who are OCD, or just people who like to plan ahead. SLA's can be a pain in the rear end and so can the file integrity being a bit nerve racking Feel free to contribute 6. Resources: Learn for cheap..er Virtualbox : free, open-source, easy to learn and use but plenty of tweakability if you want it, virtual machine software. You don't need a beast of a computer if you're just going to spin up three or four machines at once. There's lots of support out there and some people claim to be enterprise admins who run their entire business on Virtualbox. On top of what MJP said Virtualization is the newest thing coming, more and more places are starting to consolidate and re-innovate knowing VMWARE or Virtualbox is a great assest. Logmein : Remote software support is a useful thing most companies picked up by now, familiarizing with this will pay off big time in any Help Desk enviroment Cisco Learning: Think you might like networking? Cisco offers free learning for their CCNA on their site and you get to deal with real cisco commands and such with PacketTracer I WANT TO MAKE A SHITLOAD OF MONEY AND FAST! War For Profit thread has what you need, Clean Criminal Record? Got a Security+? Got time to fly around the world and live for 12 months sometimes making low to mid 6 figures? You may want to look into it. I plan to move out to Germany for 4 years, I got quoted 130k/yr+signing+completion living on base food free(or some very cheap plan, doing what looks like Network tech in Germany. I kinda plan to do this Stay current with Datacenter technologies Misogynist posted:http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/ MrKatharsis posted:http://www.sqlcourse.com followed up by http://www.sqlcourse2.com For those TL:DR quote:
Good useful Salary Guide Docjowles posted:I used the 2012 edition of this guide in my last job search and found it very accurate for my region and title. It appears to have been updated for 2013, haven't read through that version yet. Corvettefisher fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2013 around 01:58 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 08:14 |
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One thing to add on - get a four-year degree, any four-year degree, if you're in the process of deciding college vs. state school for IT. It's so much easier to get your Bachelor's degree as a full-time student at a real college or university, and it basically makes you look good on applications. It doesn't have to be CS, although that's probably a lot more useful - however, as a counterpoint to that, my degree's in political science but I worked at the university IT help desk and was part of a computer volunteer group. Those qualifications alone got my foot in the door back in '04 at a customer product help desk for a major medical manufacturer. I'm in an MSP now, knocking down certs and doing all I can to move up to the systems administration side as I have no talent or background in programming. Also, you're going to need to sell your service skills. I've only been in jobs that involve some major degree, or the sole responsibility, being interacting with non-technical end-users. You'll need to emphasize how you can deliver your knowledge, provide examples of when you had to work with a difficult customer/user/client and how you fixed the problem, and come across as someone who can ask the right questions and tailor their delivery of answers to their individual audiences. Good practice resources: Virtualbox: free, open-source, easy to learn and use but plenty of tweakability if you want it, virtual machine software. You don't need a beast of a computer if you're just going to spin up three or four machines at once. There's lots of support out there and some people claim to be enterprise admins who run their entire business on Virtualbox. It's great to have. Dreamspark: Microsoft's educational program. I think you need a .edu and a corresponding letterhead or organization contact to verify it, but they'll give you free OSes, developer environments, etc. TeamViewer: if you can't install stuff on a machine for whatever reason, set it up at home and use Teamviewer to connect to it.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 17:53 |
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I'll add that in the Washington DC area, and probably many other government-heavy areas, getting into Government contracting can be an _amazing_ way to progress your career. Its not the most stable, it can be very high stress, and it doesnt always have the best (or any) benefits. But you will be expected to do a lot (manpower is one of the easiest ways to undercut the competition), get to work with a lot, and it will look flashy on paper. It can pay extremely well, or pretty lovely. The trick to getting your foot in the door there: DoD 8570 compliance. Get a Microsoft cert and Security+ and you can walk into most any entry level contracting job easily (in my experience). If anyone is interested in more information about contracting for the Dept of Defence, Justice, or State, just let me know - I've dealt with all three.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 17:58 |
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In the non-profit IT world, be prepared to work on a shoestring budget and make equipment last as long as possible.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 18:03 |
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48 Hour Boner posted:In the non-profit IT world, be prepared to work on a shoestring budget and make equipment last as long as possible.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 18:20 |
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48 Hour Boner posted:In the for-profit IT world, be prepared to work on a shoestring budget and make equipment last as long as possible. FTFY. My last job required me to keep Optiplex GX270s with capacitor plague running for upwards of two years, and only just before I gave my notice had they started to think that they could maybe put in a case for an upgrade. I had one of our clients balk over paying $50 for software that exported e-mails in an Outlook PST to PDFs.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 18:31 |
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Corvettefisher posted:What degree to get? In my opinion, and from my experience, a CS degree will always be better than any other degree, even if there is no coding involved. MIS degrees are typically seen as similar to Engineering Tech degrees. CS is always harder to obtain and more highly regarded.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 18:33 |
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Why is DC booming all of a sudden (assuming it wasn't, prior to the last few years)?
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 18:39 |
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three posted:In my opinion, and from my experience, a CS degree will always be better than any other degree, even if there is no coding involved. MIS degrees are typically seen as similar to Engineering Tech degrees. CS is always harder to obtain and more highly regarded. I found the exact opposite to be true, My IT degree actually spend more time with servers, cisco switches and ESX than any CS course did. I took a few CS courses and all they would do is shove VB and Java down my throat. Sulk posted:Why is DC booming all of a sudden (assuming it wasn't, prior to the last few years)? DoD is doing a refresh on a few things, standards are being hiked and not everyone currently there qualifies Corvettefisher fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2011 around 19:13 |
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It depends. If you go to a "proper" CS school, they'll probably spend a fair amount of time talking about theory of computing, computability, automata, etc. etc. Oh, they'll have the odd vaguely useful course, but by and large it'll be academic hurfblurf. This is a decent grounding for dealing with corporate hurfblurf. If you go to a lovely CS school, they'll teach you to munge PHP together and sort of make poo poo work. This is more practically useful, but not as impressive.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 19:19 |
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Thel posted:It depends. If you go to a "proper" CS school, they'll probably spend a fair amount of time talking about theory of computing, computability, automata, etc. etc. Oh, they'll have the odd vaguely useful course, but by and large it'll be academic hurfblurf. This is a decent grounding for dealing with corporate hurfblurf. JMU seems pretty "proper" to me, I guess I will detail it a bit more in the OP what to watch out for
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 19:21 |
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IT is a pretty big field. While Computer Janitor falls under one facet of IT, it doesn't make it the end all be all. IT workers span from CJ's to researchers to programmers to consultants to customer service reps. I would consider my job an IT job, even though I'm on the phones all day and am very close to a customer support rep. (I spec out and design networks for the customers of a major distributor). Also, I never have to work weekends (unless a vendor gives us more test equipment that I have to set up). I guess it's pretty different being more of a technical consultant than a CJ or a programmer, but I still consider myself just as much of an IT worker as the next guy.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 22:17 |
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KillHour posted:IT workers span from CJ's to researchers to programmers to consultants to customer service reps. 48 Hour Boner posted:In the non-profit IT world, be prepared to work on a shoestring budget and make equipment last as long as possible. Thel posted:It depends. If you go to a "proper" CS school, they'll probably spend a fair amount of time talking about theory of computing, computability, automata, etc. etc. Oh, they'll have the odd vaguely useful course, but by and large it'll be academic hurfblurf. This is a decent grounding for dealing with corporate hurfblurf. Misogynist fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2011 around 22:46 |
| # ? Nov 7, 2011 22:38 |
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Thel posted:It depends. If you go to a "proper" CS school, they'll probably spend a fair amount of time talking about theory of computing, computability, automata, etc. etc. Oh, they'll have the odd vaguely useful course, but by and large it'll be academic hurfblurf. This is a decent grounding for dealing with corporate hurfblurf. I've found that the technical hurfblurf is really what can set you apart from the crowd. Knowing how to fix something is great, knowing why things work is better. It lets you be much more creative and calm in your troubleshooting and design.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 22:56 |
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drat this thread is spot on. I got my current job with an AA from our local community college it started off as a first level support gig then eventually I was moved to second level/specialized support for a specific user group. After about 2 years I got in with our Security group and have been managing our end point security applications. Word of advice Help Desk isn't a dead end you just need to be patient and know your poo poo, if you keep yourself in good standing and show that you're reliable opportunities will often open up with your current employer.quote:Be honest, if you don't know the answer to something talk out the troubleshooting steps, say where you would look, These two hints are worth repeating over and over again. My first interview was over the phone with their current 2nd level tech at the time. I didn't know the answers to a few of his questions but simply working out what I would do and staying level headed instead of getting flustered showed that the thought process was there. You won't go into the job knowing everything but as long as you show the basic ability to troubleshoot they'll be able to train you on what you need to know. Hex Darkstar fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2011 around 23:01 |
| # ? Nov 7, 2011 22:57 |
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I started 5 years ago as a junior helpdesk in my first job here. Since then, I've gone to Jr. Sysadmin (I had a diploma in Network Engineering), Sr. Sysadmin, 2 stints as a temporary Project Manager, and now I run 2 research computing clusters, and I'm Sr. Sysadmin for 2 departments. Most of my job now is dealing with escalated or outage problems, design and budgeting, and research support for several mixed AD/Linux environments. My absolute best piece of advice I can give to anyone starting out: When someone who works above you says "Can you give me a hand with this?", say yes. Always say "Yes!". It's how I went from basically an OK guy at Active Directory to the skills I have now. If you aren't getting asked to help, find the guy above you whose job you'd like to do, and ask them to show you. I love teaching/training people who are genuinely interested in what I do, and most admins I know love it too. "Yes, I can work overtime" is another great phrase starting out. If you're the person who appears interested to learn and help out, you'll get better and better opportunities showing up your way.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 23:06 |
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I have always been interested in what exactly a "Computer Janitor" is. Can I get a definition? I'd also like to second that the best way to get a good IT job is overtime. I live 40 minutes away from my workplace and I tend to get more overtime than most of the other guys here. Learn to say yes, but learn when to say "no". I missed my dad's birthday dinner for an extra hour and a half of overtime. 
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 23:12 |
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bbcisdabomb posted:I have always been interested in what exactly a "Computer Janitor" is. Can I get a definition? It's basically an umbrella term for a person who does poo poo work all day cleaning up messes. You don't exercise any sort of creativity or independent thought, just remove malware, rebuild user profiles, unlock accounts, etc etc. It's also a terrible over-used term on these forums.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 23:25 |
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Something very important to remember is that for every "I started as a computer mover and now I'm CEO of the company" story there is an equal number of "I've been moving computers for 50 years" stories. Nobody ever posts about how they are still doing the same job they started in 10 years ago, so it appears that everybody is king of IT. To get the opportunity of becoming King IT in the place you started you need to start in a large IT department, if it's a small department you're not going anywhere until you leave for another job.
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| # ? Nov 7, 2011 23:58 |
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Misogynist posted:These are actually all really important things unless you plan on being L1 support for most of your adult life. The terminology might stop being important, but the concepts stick around whether you're in development, desktop support or systems engineering. PhancyPants posted:I've found that the technical hurfblurf is really what can set you apart from the crowd. Knowing how to fix something is great, knowing why things work is better. It lets you be much more creative and calm in your troubleshooting and design. I was being a bit flippant this morning, you guys are completely right. A solid grounding in the underlying theory is hugely important. e: On a random note, something I didn't expect to be helpful - using my knowledge of bit-fields and bitshifting (from C) to decode database status flags* (I'm a DBA, my degree is in CS with a diploma in IS). * It's hosed, Jim. Fortunately it's not my problem. e: Yaos posted:Something very important to remember is that for every "I started as a computer mover and now I'm CEO of the company" story there is an equal number of "I've been moving computers for 50 years" stories. Nobody ever posts about how they are still doing the same job they started in 10 years ago, so it appears that everybody is king of IT. To get the opportunity of becoming King IT in the place you started you need to start in a large IT department, if it's a small department you're not going anywhere until you leave for another job. Sometimes, being in a small IT department *can* work (i.e. if the CTO [president's son] leaves [gets stuck in jail for drug smuggling] suddenly, if you can sell them on your ability to do the job you get an impressive promotion). However, you're right in that larger shops generally have more opportunities (although they're going to be incremental rather than game-changing). Also, yes, if you want to get anywhere in IT, you have to know how to play the (corporate) game. Keep your bosses on-side, don't piss off any C-levels (pro tip: don't piss off their secretaries either. You piss their secretary off, you effectively piss them off. And the secretaries are all gossip machines too.), make sure they know when you've done something good and make sure you fix up your fuckups. Selling yourself and knowing where you want to be are the keys to being an enterprise architect instead of a garbage-dump architect. Thel fucked around with this message at Nov 8, 2011 around 00:16 |
| # ? Nov 8, 2011 00:03 |
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I'll add some job descriptions in the morning, slow week at work with 2 holidays. Give me any ideas of subject matters to touch on
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 01:27 |
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Misogynist posted:The nice thing is that this has never been easier to do than it is today. The beautiful thing about cloud computing is that whether you use it or not, it's generated a huge ecosystem of software out there today that lets you run robust, reliable infrastructures on $500 servers. "The backoffice runs just fine on this 15 year old hardware and NT4. Why on earth would I spend $500?"
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 02:32 |
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Thel posted:don't piss off any C-levels (pro tip: don't piss off their secretaries either. You piss their secretary off, you effectively piss them off. And the secretaries are all gossip machines too.) Ain't that the truth. One of the analysts we had just in general had a real bad attitude problem and a good portion of the C-Level admins always seemed to get him on the phone. Went home one night came back the next day with an email in my inbox explaining that the analyst was no longer with the company as of yesterday EOD (at the time). He was the only one i've ever seen let go due to the wrath of the admins. The rest of us had enough common sense to be polite and try to expedite their request or help them as needed so they could get back to their work. That and some of them are genuinely nice to talk to. One of the admins that called in quite a bit was hilarious very friendly and awesome to hold a conversation with while working on an issue. Also a note: The mute button is your friend but ensure it works before you say anything you might regret. Been in a conference call where someone muteed the phone to drop a few f-bombs over how stupid someone on the call was, that rarely ends well and comes off as very unprofessional
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 02:45 |
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bbcisdabomb posted:I have always been interested in what exactly a "Computer Janitor" is. Can I get a definition? In my experience it is frequently used as a derogatory term for people who work with computers doing things like system administration, installing networks and assembling machines that do not involve programming and are therefore (stereotypically) considered barely above unskilled labor by people who do program.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 02:54 |
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Internet Janitor posted:In my experience it is frequently used as a derogatory term for people who work with computers doing things like system administration, installing networks and assembling machines that do not involve programming and are therefore (stereotypically) considered barely above unskilled labor by people who do program. First off: great username + post combo. It's not just programmers, though (although they are the undisputed kings of ego). It can also be used senior system/network/storage administrators to refer to tier 1 helldesk.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 06:16 |
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Thel posted:First off: great username + post combo. Naah I can tell you despite being a storage architect with more pull than 99% of the coders I deal with, as far as they are concerned we're all trash.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 06:57 |
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Welp, looks like I really am a CJ. It's interesting how working at a contract IT firm becomes less "build me a system" and more "I have a virus!" as time goes on. If I could just finish my degree I could move on to better things, but all the jobs around Eastern WA require a degree. Six years of relevant experience, three with your god drat systems? Not good enough for a callback, gotta have that degree 
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 08:40 |
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bbcisdabomb posted:If I could just finish my degree I could move on to better things, but all the jobs around Eastern WA require a degree. Six years of relevant experience, three with your god drat systems? Not good enough for a callback, gotta have that degree Often this stuff is an automatism where some low paid HR intern just throws all CVs without a certain requirement on the rejected stack. Call the companies, and ask a few complicated questions that the phone jockey won't know the answer to, at the very least this forces someone with actual competence to pull out your file and have another go at it.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 09:43 |
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Cheesus posted:Assuming you're approved to spend that.
I understand that the economy is lovely, but if you've got #1 and #3 locked down, there's a plenty of decent companies who will find a place to put you whether they have a position open or not.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 14:51 |
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Cheesus posted:Assuming you're approved to spend that. This is usually said by the cheapest motherfuckers alive - Doctors and Lawyers. I know of a guy whos firm still runs on a Gateway 2000 server, dual-PPro 180's, 384MB, 9GB SCSI HDs, I think the email quotas are like 100mb/user still. NT 4.0 and Exchange 5(?)
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 14:55 |
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Bob Morales posted:This is usually said by the cheapest motherfuckers alive - Doctors and Lawyers. I know of a guy whos firm still runs on a Gateway 2000 server, dual-PPro 180's, 384MB, 9GB SCSI HDs, I think the email quotas are like 100mb/user still. NT 4.0 and Exchange 5(?)
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 15:03 |
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Misogynist posted:Jesus, I'd be pushing for Google Apps by that point. We're on Apps and I'm pretty sure they're firing people just to pay $25/mth less. edit: wait, it's $5? Sheesh.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 15:07 |
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Misogynist posted:Jesus, I'd be pushing for Google Apps by that point. Yeah, but if their server is like that, imagine what their desktops are like. Do you think you'd get meaningful Javascript performance on an ancient POS with 256MiB RAM and IE6? I saw an old Compaq machine in use as a domain controller at a LARGE business with 128MiB RAM. That was so pathetic, when I was there (doing a PC rollout) I actually got them to put some more goddamn RAM in it, because as we built machines, and booted the NT4 virtual machine, adding the VM to the domain would sometimes fail if we did the machines in batches, as the DC struggled to cope. Although they were transitioning from that domain, it was still very much essential. Ancient DC, in-house apps using the domain admin password hard-coded making security IMPOSSIBLE - every contractor knew the passwords. An old application was running in NT4 still - every single desktop was running XP and NT4 in vmware player. What a loving mess. We're talking, uh.. 2007, probably. Seriously pathetic. This is what things look like when you get idiots in who care about appearance more than substance, and nobody with an actual vision. Someone needs to look at this mess, tell them to stop, and figure out a replacement for the old application(s) and infrastructure. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at Nov 8, 2011 around 15:19 |
| # ? Nov 8, 2011 15:09 |
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Outlook Express can still connect to Apps 
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 15:09 |
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Bob Morales posted:This is usually said by the cheapest motherfuckers alive - Doctors and Lawyers. I know of a guy whos firm still runs on a Gateway 2000 server, dual-PPro 180's, 384MB, 9GB SCSI HDs, I think the email quotas are like 100mb/user still. NT 4.0 and Exchange 5(?) drat, that was a pro-as-hell setup 16 years ago.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 16:03 |
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Yaos posted:Something very important to remember is that for every "I started as a computer mover and now I'm CEO of the company" story there is an equal number of "I've been moving computers for 50 years" stories. Nobody ever posts about how they are still doing the same job they started in 10 years ago, so it appears that everybody is king of IT. To get the opportunity of becoming King IT in the place you started you need to start in a large IT department, if it's a small department you're not going anywhere until you leave for another job. This is very true. A lot of my success was being in the right place at the right time (and saying yes when it arrived). I know a lot of great talent that's getting wasted because they're in an environment without growth potential, or even acknowledgement of the effort. In cases like that, all you can do as an employee is to suck it up until you can find another job in another company. To clarify about the O/T and always saying yes thing, I think I may have oversimplified it. If your extra work is not being acknowledged or rewarded with more responsibility/opportunity, it's time to sever.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 20:54 |
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I'll toss down another tip: Blog about what you do. I'm not telling you that you must get super active into any of the IT communities (lord knows I'm not), or any of that. Just keep something written and technical online. It doesnt need immense amounts of effort. My suggestion is not to become a popular blogger or to put cutting edge material online. But its a very nice tool to bring up something at an interview when the situation warrants. "You say you've got some scripting experience, could you tell me a bit about it?" - drop a link to your work online, and now they've got tangible work of yours to look at. If you get asked about technical documentation, you can drop a reference there. Plus it's a really nice thing to put up and be able to reference your own past work for resume revision purposes, or simply remembering things youve run into in the past. And it's also a nice thing to have attached to your real name, so when the possible "google for you" comes along, your blog comes up.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 21:01 |
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Walked posted:I'll toss down another tip: I've gotten calls from people looking for storage administrators because my blog contains literally the only published information I've found about recovering accidentally-deleted LUNs on an IBM Midrange Storage series SAN. A good online presence leads to lots of opportunities.
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 21:13 |
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This seems like an appropriate thread for this, maybe someone here will have some good advice for a goon like me. Excuse the messy layout, I have a terrible head cold. I currently am a contracted IT Admin and want to start looking for a full time position with benefits/ect once I finish the projects I am working on. My experience: 1) Consulted for family friends and small businesses via WOM since I was 14. 2) Worked in some form of IT for every school I have gone to (IT assistant in grade/highschool and Helpdesk level 1 and 2 in college). 3) 3 previous years working for above mentioned firm as IT Admin 4) 6 months for a small consulting company 5) 1 year running my own car shop (still am as a side business, just to help friends) 6) July- present at the above mentioned firm. I am best described as a jack of all trades, be this in IT or anything mechanical. The other day I welded up fixture plates for a part being CNC machined while my IOSTAT benchmarks were running. I have 2yrs of College complete and on record (long story about the other 2 years) and am considering/actively looking for a IT program that fits me. (No degree yet) I have worked mainly with Microsoft products, but have some Unix/Linux experience. My skill set is as diverse as any other IT janitor. Currently I am replacing our SBS2003 server with a vSphere environment with a custom SAN based on ZFS. Next up is a site to site link with remote backup and setting up a Asterisk based phone system. The work environment is a bit iffy at times and now that I have a family, I can no longer wait for them to decide to hire me as a regular employee. As far as certs go, I have non right now, but would love to finish some basic ones like my CCNA and eventually get my MCSE/VCP. There is a 90% complete Cisco lab under my desk + all the books/material needed, I just have no motivation ATM since I am busy researching the projects I am currently working on at work. I do try to keep up a small technical bog and realized it is easier for possible employers to find out more about me via that, then trying to stuff my resume. To the point: I have no idea what type of position to apply for. Several years ago I applied at a number of firms and got 5-6 interviews. The jobs ranged from IT Manger to onsite support for a school district. They must have liked me on paper to want to bring me in, but I will readily admit I sucked at the interview. At the same time however, it seemed they all had their ideal candidate chosen. The question: What would you focus on if you were me? It really all comes down to not knowing what I want to do. Ideally, I would like to finish my CCNA, get a real job, and attend school at night/online. My goal is to work for a school (as I have a in at several local schools) so my son can have a good education that I do not have to stress over the tens of thousands in debt that brings. Thanks fellow Goons!
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| # ? Nov 8, 2011 21:35 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 08:14 |
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Yaos posted:Something very important to remember is that for every "I started as a computer mover and now I'm CEO of the company" story there is an equal number of "I've been moving computers for 50 years" stories. Nobody ever posts about how they are still doing the same job they started in 10 years ago, so it appears that everybody is king of IT. To get the opportunity of becoming King IT in the place you started you need to start in a large IT department, if it's a small department you're not going anywhere until you leave for another job. I'm a consultant so am constantly meeting in-house IT people who seem to be happy with moving PC's for 10 years and never up-skilling unless they think their actual job is on the line. It's sad really, they're not stupid people, there is just no drive to learn anything anymore. On the upside, if you never turn down the opportunity to learn something or do something new (even if it is unappealing) and don't gently caress up, you'll probably do pretty well, as people like that are rare enough to be valuable still. Another huge benefit of constantly improving is, your job will become much easier. Instead of using an antique copy of ghost or god forbid building machines from scratch, learning about and deploying WDS or SCCM will ultimately free up more time for forum browsing or whatever. sanchez fucked around with this message at Nov 8, 2011 around 21:53 |
| # ? Nov 8, 2011 21:49 |
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