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As a parent of two with no family anywhere remotely close to us, take the job. You have plenty of time to catch back up on your career. Having family close by with a new baby is going to be worth it. Move to the new city, take the job, but don't stop looking for something better.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 18:49 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 13:15 |
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Take it. That little meatbag is going to go off more times per night than the pager for the next 3 years.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 19:01 |
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So I'm in the middle of my second 'proper' job, doing front end updates/development for an e-commerce site in the UK. Thing is, I'm not really sure this is where I want to be! I feel like I sort of fell into web development because I really didn't know what careers were out there. I have a BSc degree in computing during which I worked a year doing front end/back end development using HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, JavaScript; all of which I learned on the job. My current job is for up to a year maternity leave cover although may end up being permanent. On a day to day basis I mostly just use HTML and CSS, occasionally touching on JQuery. To me web development feels very detached from the rest of IT. It's more a creative field than technical and I think I'd like to shift into more technical roles. I've been thinking a lot about what I should be focusing on improving/learning while I'm in this job and it gets very frustrating. One area that seems interesting to me is security but that is very different to what I'm doing now. If anyone with experience could suggest some of the paths available to me next I think I'd find it very helpful.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 19:22 |
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rscott posted:E: Yes, moving is an option for some people, but it's not an option for everyone and even if it was, thousands of graduates descending on hot tech markets like a swarm of locusts would crash wages in those areas anyways. Los Angeles, San Francisco, Austin, NYC, and about a dozen other hot tech markets beg to differ.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 19:40 |
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Would supervising a helpdesk be a step on the ladder to more advanced sysadmin work? I'm already a sysadmin, but at my job the only way to really advance right now is to run the help desk (which it desperately needs, and I think I'd be pretty good at it) but I'm not sure how that experience would look on a resume. I'll still probably be doing a fair amount of sysadmin work, so It'd be a 50/50 split most likely.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 20:51 |
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FISHMANPET posted:Would supervising a helpdesk be a step on the ladder to more advanced sysadmin work?
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| # ? May 22, 2013 20:52 |
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Mr N posted:I have a BSc degree in computing during which I worked a year doing front end/back end development using HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, JavaScript; all of which I learned on the job ... I think I'd like to shift into more technical roles. I've been thinking a lot about what I should be focusing on improving/learning while I'm in this job and it gets very frustrating. One area that seems interesting to me is security but that is very different to what I'm doing now. It sounds like you're aware of this but saying you want to get into IT is sort of like saying you want to get into science. There's a zillion specialties and it's hard to give advice without at least a hint to where you want to go. A good first step is narrowing down what you want--or definitely don't want--to do. Is your "BSc in computing" analogous to a US Computer Science degree? If so between that and your work experience you're basically auto qualified for most entry level work even if it's not directly related to your experience. Do you want to remain a developer but work on back-end code? Start teaching yourself Ruby or Python or Java (gently caress Java forever) or C#. Larger outfits also often have internal tool and infrastructure developers that look at pretty cool problems. Switch gears to more of an operations or sysadmin role? (surprise! sysadmins increasingly need to be able to write code, so you're actually coming to the table with very desirable skills) Network engineer? You mentioned security, and there's a pretty good InfoSec Thread here although it's died down recently. There's also the Certification Thread which can get you on the right track with your qualifications once you figure out what kind of work you're shooting for.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 21:24 |
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Docjowles posted:It sounds like you're aware of this but saying you want to get into IT is sort of like saying you want to get into science. Yes, this is something I've totally come to realise. Problem was when I was doing my degree I did just think of it as "getting into IT" and I had no idea why I was learning anything so I had little motivation. Now I've actually got some real work experience I've begun to realise how many options there are and it's very overwhelming. I say "I'm interested in IT security" but at the same time I realise I have no idea what it's actually like to work in the field. My plan, I suppose, is to use this time to read up on various aspects I think may interest me and see where I go with it. Docjowles posted:Is your "BSc in computing" analogous to a US Computer Science degree? Yes I believe so more or less. BSc just means Bachelor of Science and is generally a 3 year degree (4 with my year of work). We have Computer Science degrees too but it's not the sort of thing people seem to draw a big distinction between when interviewing and they mostly cover the same material. I know I was vague so I appreciate the advice.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 22:10 |
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Doing software upgrades on a server and having to deal with application analysts and downtime is only tolerable from home with alcohol. I just wish I had A/C.
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| # ? May 22, 2013 22:18 |
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Just to close the loop on the job at Tesla, I was passed over by someone who would be a better fit, which makes me think that they were probably not looking to pay that much for the support position (of course)!
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| # ? May 22, 2013 23:03 |
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aldantefax posted:Just to close the loop on the job at Tesla, I was passed over by someone who would be a better fit, which makes me think that they were probably not looking to pay that much for the support position (of course)!
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| # ? May 22, 2013 23:49 |
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bort posted:So it goes. You got to interview at a company where something is happening and that's a learning experience. Those endeavors don't always stay on course, or worse: they're wildly successful and you get acquired by a lovely big company or turn into one. Some things look a lot more fun from the outside, too. From an email today I write you in regard to an excellent employment opportunity! I saw your fine resume in regard to our XXXXXX position. Yet, I also wanted to share this position with you as well. Per a voicemail message left for you earlier by me, I have attached a Commitment Letter that I am requesting you please consider and sign and return it to me this afternoon or at your very first chance. I am very impressed with your resume! Needless to say, after a call right back I figured out that skill wise I was totally qualified but will be unable to apply.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 01:33 |
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Tony Montana posted:hell yeah.. ok here in Australia and particularly in Adelaide the premier University is the University of Adelaide, and their engineering dept (real engineers, as in lots of math and you come out with the degree) wanted a server. I rock up with the IBM box, but it's huge, not rack mount but floor standing server. Hrm. These guys point me to a corner of their library and say yeah ok stick it there.. oh yeah a powerboard ok, let me find one, etc. I get to plugging in the network, which of these wall points is patched? Which do I plug into? Er.. dunno about all that.. jeez we might have to ring IT. I was a bit shocked.. ring IT? Isn't that why I'm here.. you have your own IT department? It doesn't help that the head of the division is proud of the fact that Adelaide Uni has the lowest IT spend of equivalent universities in Australia
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| # ? May 23, 2013 01:37 |
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bort posted:So it goes. You got to interview at a company where something is happening and that's a learning experience. Those endeavors don't always stay on course, or worse: they're wildly successful and you get acquired by a lovely big company or turn into one. Some things look a lot more fun from the outside, too. To be fair, since Tesla is backed by several billionaires who already made their money on other projects, I doubt they'll ever sell out to another major car company. Tasty Wheat posted:From an email today I get a lot of these from recruiters on Linkedin. Although in their defense, quite a few of them actually take the time to at least personalize the message a bit.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 01:40 |
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I hate waiting for gov't HR. I had an interview almost 3 weeks ago. The interview went really well. Afterwords one of the panel told me I was one of 3 interviews, then he gave me his card and said I could follow up with him after if I didn't hear anything. Followed up at the end of last week by email (after mailing a thank you note the next day) and he said on Monday that I should hear from HR in the coming days. I really want this job because its new technology, new resources, less toxic work environment, better commute, a huge promotion in status and more money. The waiting though, it's enough to  Basically someone talk me back from the edge while I  and 
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| # ? May 23, 2013 01:45 |
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Mr Chips posted:I wouldn't blame some of the Schools at Adelaide Uni for taking matters into their own hand. Central IT there are apocalyptically bad, and have basically barricaded themselves off from the rest of the organisation and have no interest in exploring how IT can suppport teaching and research. In the 'real world' you'd tell your internal IT dept that they've got 2 years to meet a laundry list of requirements (everything from DR and capacity through documentation and signing off on SLAs) and if they fail here (which they will, that's why we've got this problem in the first place) then we're firing the loving lot of you and outsourcing the whole drat thing to HP or IBM. HP or IBM will offer packages to existing IT staff, part of the outsource deal is we will absorb your IT workforce (and if they're poo poo, kick them to the curb in 12 months). Guess who I work for..  The fact the Uni can't manage this I'm sure is the difference between professional teachers and doers :P
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| # ? May 23, 2013 01:50 |
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KennyG posted:I hate waiting for gov't HR. Been waiting 4 weeks for Gov HR, nailed an interview, at the end of the interview was told that HR takes 6 weeks to process everything.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 01:56 |
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Tony Montana posted:The fact the Uni can't manage this I'm sure is the difference between professional teachers and doers :P They're making noises about outsourcing, but rehiring the same staff would be stupid - they're the people who got the organisation into this mess in the first place.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 02:03 |
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Ooh don't worry about that The first thing we do is say 'oh, you've been technical lead for this tech for the Uni network for the last 10 years? Ok, so they've outsourced because their IT was poo poo. We appreciate your experience and in line with that, you're going over to this account. It's got nothing to do with the Uni at all and is acutally in a totally different business. We hope you succeed!' This allows us very quickly to find out how much actual, objective technical knoweldge you have outside your little playground (feathered nest in the case of many of these places) and if you're management how much you can actually manage when you don't have your little support network of mates around you. Much of the resistance against a uber-outsourcing move is all the incumbent staff (who often have the ears of the desicion-makers about the outsource) rightful crying about losing their jobs. But when you've got resources like we do, that's just an 'objection to be overcome' to them signing the deal (to use terrible sales lanugage) and we overcome that badboy by just hiring the lot of them. If they're real IT people they'll be excited coming to us anyway (our name wins so many battles for us before we've even started talking) and we always have the 12 month clause that we can fire them if they're rubbish. One of the real challenges for a non-IT organisation is evaluating their IT staff. They simply don't know what a good engineer is, they simply don't understand technology enough to understand why this guy is good and valuable and this guy sucks. They can use customer service metrics and stuff for lower levels, but once you're really running the networks they don't have the foggiest what you're doing. Well.. we do.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 02:35 |
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Tony Montana posted:One of the real challenges for a non-IT organisation is evaluating their IT staff. They simply don't know what a good engineer is, they simply don't understand technology enough to understand why this guy is good and valuable and this guy sucks. They can use customer service metrics and stuff for lower levels, but once you're really running the networks they don't have the foggiest what you're doing.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:00 |
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Zero VGS posted:NWS that poo poo, it's blasting Playboy ads at me. On my phone no less. Hmmm, I'm getting flicker ads, even after multiple refreshes on different pages. Perhaps some targeted ads based on browsing history? 
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| # ? May 23, 2013 05:52 |
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adorai posted:One of the challenges of outsourced IT is that they don't really understand the needs of the business, and treat the business as customers rather than partners. It's a "contract to be won" which is more related to sales than anything. A business that has successfully partnered with it's IT department doesn't see it as a cost center, and doesn't need to outsource it. Exactly right. The best IT setup is trust-worthy, professional IT team that you can rely on, which has a functional and productive relationship with the business. It's dynamic and flexible, as the business changes and grows, it's IT department evolves too. This is best case scenario. Most corporations, despite spending millions upon millions on IT, end up with rooms full of that fat gently caress we were talking about (Scott Miller? I've forgotten already). After years and years of their bullshit, their loving lies and incompetence, dragging the corporation into their cat-lady world.. management get sick of this. They know what you've said, and know the relationship with us is going to be all business, but at least it’s a business relationship unlike whatever incestuous poo poo the incumbent staff have manipulated themselves into. Those gravy train folk, we were talking bout before. In IT because they have friends to get them in and no real interest in the computing, just come each day to collect a salary and bludge for another 8 hours. We're coming for you. Competent IT teams that work closely with their business, we don't have a chance and we know this. I hope this makes some of you happy and motivated too. IT isn't all nepotism and business-rules based bullshit. There ARE organisations that value the computing first, your technical knowledge and your ability with the computers BEFORE your brown-nosing and career management tactics. You just need to understand we all want to work here, so competition is fierce and you'll run into nutters like me who live and breathe their career. Keep studying, keep being that go-to-guy, keep believing that our industry was built by people like Gates and Jobbs, not Ballmer. We will eventually find you and want to pay you a lot of money and give you nice things to just do what you love.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 06:02 |
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Tony Montana posted:(our name wins so many battles for us before we've even started talking) Mr Chips fucked around with this message at May 23, 2013 around 06:25 |
| # ? May 23, 2013 06:22 |
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Tony Montana IS Scott Allen Miller 
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| # ? May 23, 2013 06:38 |
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Hehe, you can play the tall poppy game if you want. I think you'll be happier if you listen to me though Mr Chips posted:I've been doing IT in SA since the mid 90s, including plenty of work for big orgs and major outsourcers, and I've got no idea who you're talking about. There are no big-name orgs here who I haven't experienced poo poo attitudes and poo poo work from. Adelaide being a small town means I know quite a few good people, however. It just means we have a lot of credibility before we've even met the client, so winning the contract is easier. We have MASSIVE problems, just like anywhere else, but being crap at the tech isn't one of them. edit: oh sorry, WHO you're talking about.. not WHAT you're talking about. I'm not going to say, mate, it wouldn't be wise but I've dropped plenty of hints. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at May 23, 2013 around 07:02 |
| # ? May 23, 2013 06:42 |
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bah, you don't have PMs...
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| # ? May 23, 2013 07:08 |
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I am struggling to think of a large or well known outsource provider that does not have a crap reputation in Adelaide.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 11:13 |
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It doesn't matter specifically, one of the large multinationals doing this right now everywhere. NEC, IBM, HP.. I work for one of those. It's really hard to do it all totally remote and lots of what we do sucks, but at least its some level of stability compared to what they had. I said it before in response to adorai, we can't do it as well as a good internal IT team. But we can do a good enough job that they want to keep paying.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 12:31 |
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It's a little different at my job. We're a smaller manufacturing company, and have a tiny IT team. Everything we can't do, we have an IT consulting firm do. We've had a relationship with them for 15 years (I've been with the company 10). So while my job is help desk stuff, it's also vmware stuff, server stuff, and project management. They'd rather pay them to put in a router than teach me to do it once, which makes sense.
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| # ? May 23, 2013 12:33 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 13:15 |
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At my last job we actually insourced a lot of the stuff that we were previously relying on consulting firms/MSPs to take care of. Except for printers, because gently caress printers. It helped that we were in a homogeneous Windows 7/2008R2 environment running on simple Layer 2 network topology. e: Anyone got a decent program that tracks wireless statistics and can create reports (number of connections, session length, top talkers, etc.)? We've got a Cisco setup (not my decision), but ISE doesn't work with an open authentication model. Anything using netflow is fine. psydude fucked around with this message at May 23, 2013 around 12:59 |
| # ? May 23, 2013 12:51 |
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