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skipdogg posted:Hard job to come by if you're talking pure 'network engineering' as in I don't touch anything but the Cisco stuff. Job titles are such a joke. I do very little with our networking equipment (got to program a catalyst switch a few weekends ago!!!); almost everything is desktop and server IT stuff (which, hey, I was looking for a way to get hands on with systems type stuff, so that's not a bad thing at all). And yet a few years from now when I'm applying for my next job the actual job title will probably be what lands me the interview. Anyway, yeah, I'd really like to actually design networks and poo poo without working for Cisco or Juniper. But it looks like there's a lot of overlap between network engineers and network admins for 75% of the companies out there. psydude fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 04:05 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 03:39 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 11:39 |
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skipdogg posted:Hard job to come by if you're talking pure 'network engineering' as in I don't touch anything but the Cisco stuff. What? I work on a team where I am the network architect/team lead and I have a team of 3 pure senior engineers, 2 juniors and a telecom guy. It took us forever to find someone last fall. It isn't that there aren't jobs, there frankly aren't qualified people. The amount of shitheads that think that they are senior level engineers is loving baffling. Being a ticket jockey for 10 years making vlan changes doesn't make you a senior engineer, it makes you a sad sack of poo poo who can't answer questions about the basics of design or the difference between Architecture and Engineering. As people have said, don't trust anyone who doesn't know the pin outs for the more common cables or can't tell you what the more common TCP/UDP ports are. It can be a pain in the rear end to break into, but jesus once you are in it is the greatest little club in the world. To the guys who are looking to get in, seriously put in your time, it'll make your life a hell of a lot easier. Honestly this is one industry that would seriously benefit from the concept of apprenticeship. Mostly because I could really use more slave labor. Also, we only touch Cisco stuff. Real Cisco stuff, not that valet/linksys horseshit. You haven't lived until you have experienced the the harmonious humming of a Data Center full of Nexus equipment. :smug:
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 03:54 |
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workape posted:What? I work on a team where I am the network architect/team lead and I have a team of 3 pure senior engineers, 2 juniors and a telecom guy. It took us forever to find someone last fall. It isn't that there aren't jobs, there frankly aren't qualified people. The amount of shitheads that think that they are senior level engineers is loving baffling. Being a ticket jockey for 10 years making vlan changes doesn't make you a senior engineer, it makes you a sad sack of poo poo who can't answer questions about the basics of design or the difference between Architecture and Engineering. Please do tell us more.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 04:16 |
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Sure, I wouldn't mind designing, planning and installing a network infrastructure for a 30,000 square foot building again. Only when I'm actually being paid what I deserve to do it, though. Doing all of that again at $17.00 per hour is not loving happening. Not a chance in hell. Come in at $25 per hour and we'll make our way up from there. Network engineering/design is where I'd ideally like to be in the future. I get to wear jeans every day, design and build great things with my bare hands, and receive decent pay while I learn a lot more? Sign me up. I'd go back to it in a heartbeat but hey, maybe I'm insane too.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 04:18 |
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COCKMOUTH.GIF posted:Sure, I wouldn't mind designing, planning and installing a network infrastructure for a 30,000 square foot building again. Only when I'm actually being paid what I deserve to do it, though. Doing all of that again at $17.00 per hour is not loving happening. Not a chance in hell. Come in at $25 per hour and we'll make our way up from there. Network engineering/design is where I'd ideally like to be in the future. I get to wear jeans every day, design and build great things with my bare hands, and receive decent pay while I learn a lot more? Sign me up. I'd go back to it in a heartbeat but hey, maybe I'm insane too. You should be making a gently caress of a lot more than $25 an hour as an engineer if all of the anecdotal salaries and wages I have are correct.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 04:34 |
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I'm colorblind so I tend to avoid doing anything with cable connectors whenever I possibly can. I can do it if I need to, but I would only give myself about an 85% success rate that I actually get all the colors straight. red/amber/yellow LEDs can gently caress right off too.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 04:52 |
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Tab8715 posted:Please do tell us more. Assuming you aren't trying to be sarcastic, what would you like to know? I've worked my way up to where I am after switching into network engineering from being a unix sysadmin. I'm one of those experience > certs > formal education people. I've worked for people in the past that the whole thing was turned around. Never work for someone with a Ph.D..
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 05:25 |
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COCKMOUTH.GIF posted:Sure, I wouldn't mind designing, planning and installing a network infrastructure for a 30,000 square foot building again. Only when I'm actually being paid what I deserve to do it, though. Doing all of that again at $17.00 per hour is not loving happening. Not a chance in hell. Come in at $25 per hour and we'll make our way up from there. Network engineering/design is where I'd ideally like to be in the future. I get to wear jeans every day, design and build great things with my bare hands, and receive decent pay while I learn a lot more? Sign me up. I'd go back to it in a heartbeat but hey, maybe I'm insane too. unless you're hanging out in a small town, 25/hr is like helpdesk/low level pay isn't it? That's like 52/yr, I know we pay our 1-2yr experience guys that much if not more in SF. Network engineer, I'd expect no less than whatever the gently caress 80-90k/year works out to hourly. You'll probably be salaried at that point anyway.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 05:37 |
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Telex posted:unless you're hanging out in a small town, 25/hr is like helpdesk/low level pay isn't it? That's like 52/yr, I know we pay our 1-2yr experience guys that much if not more in SF. A lot of the difficulty with gauging appropriate wages is that a lot of IT positions come in via external contracting companies / headhunters (at least in my industry). If you're stuck slaving through a middleman, around my area, you can probably expect: Helpdesk Support: $20-25/hr Desktop Support: $20-28/hr Server Support: $25-35/hr Network Support: $30-40/hr Security Analyst: $35-45/hr Now, that's a major jump from what the company actually PAYS for these same people, which is more in line with (these are all low-end numbers, too): Helpdesk Support: $40/hr Desktop Support: $45/hr Server Support: $50/hr Network Support: $60/hr Security Analyst: $70/hr All of these numbers scale up 30-50% for senior folks.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 06:12 |
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sizerp posted:A lot of the difficulty with gauging appropriate wages is that a lot of IT positions come in via external contracting companies / headhunters (at least in my industry). Where in the country are the above wages true? I'm only making $14 an hour doing Helpdesk/Desktop support. Then again, I'm employed in South Carolina, so that probably explains the lower wages.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 12:33 |
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Vargatron posted:Where in the country are the above wages true? I'm only making $14 an hour doing Helpdesk/Desktop support. Then again, I'm employed in South Carolina, so that probably explains the lower wages. Those numbers are a tad low, but not far off for the Washington DC area, at least. So I'd assume most major metropolitan areas are going to come into that general ballpark.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 12:43 |
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Walked posted:Those numbers are a tad low, but not far off for the Washington DC area, at least. $15/hr in DC proper, doing desktop and helpdesk. 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 13:02 |
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East of Central Florida here and I'm at $32/hr. My job title is Windows Server Admin and Support. Mostly though I'm the imaging guy. Setting up automated server OS deployments to our 1500+ servers in the field and whatnot.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 13:16 |
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Any company paying helpdesk $40/hour is dumb.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 13:38 |
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You realize he's talking direct bill rates for contract employees, right? Not what the employee sees. E.g. the government pays X contractor $40/hr for a helpdesk guy, helpdesk guy sees obviously far less. Or I'm wrong and misunderstood what he was saying.Walter_Sobchak posted:$15/hr in DC proper, doing desktop and helpdesk. How long have you been doing this? Whats your background? How flexible are you about the area? 15/hr is like entry-level-first-IT-job pay in the DC area. Shoot me a PM. Walked fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 13:44 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 13:42 |
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Walter_Sobchak posted:$15/hr in DC proper, doing desktop and helpdesk. Dear God. Do you have as security clearance or the ability to get one? Because that's super low for that area. Cost of living is a huge factor. The difference in wages and salaries between Richmond and DC is almost 50-75% due to the enormous jump in cost of living. If I make 60k a year in Richmond, that's about the same as making 80-90k a year in DC. And that's only an hour and a half up 95.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:00 |
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psydude posted:Dear God. Do you have as security clearance or the ability to get one? Because that's super low for that area. I was under the impression that I'd be able to get one once I joined my current company. I've sent some emails to my manager, CIO, and head of Security. Nothing so far. Wheee bureaucracy! Man, I'm gonna be jaded before it's even legal for me to drown my sorrows in booze. 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:07 |
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Walter_Sobchak posted:I was under the impression that I'd be able to get one once I joined my current company. I've sent some emails to my manager, CIO, and head of Security. Nothing so far. Wheee bureaucracy! You're not going to get a clearance just because. You need a sponsor (obviously), but you also need cause (e.g. a position that requires a clearance). So unless you've got a job they're moving you into that requires it, no amount of emailing or asking will get you one.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:17 |
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Walked posted:You're not going to get a clearance just because. You need a sponsor (obviously), but you also need cause (e.g. a position that requires a clearance). So unless you've got a job they're moving you into that requires it, no amount of emailing or asking will get you one. Yeah, I figured that was the case. Even if I did somehow get one, I can't see myself interacting with a lot of Classified/Secret poo poo in my day-to-day job. Most of that sort of stuff is taken care of at HQ (we're a remote site).
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:58 |
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Walter_Sobchak posted:Yeah, I figured that was the case. Even if I did somehow get one, I can't see myself interacting with a lot of Classified/Secret poo poo in my day-to-day job. Most of that sort of stuff is taken care of at HQ (we're a remote site). The idea is that a security clearance will pay anywhere from 10-25 thousand dollars more per year, even for a helldesk position.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 15:28 |
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With a good enough clearance in this town you can get $80k / year for being a non-computer janitor. Did I mention I'm hiring for a non-cleared DevOps position in this town.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 15:31 |
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Walked posted:You realize he's talking direct bill rates for contract employees, right? Not what the employee sees. E.g. the government pays X contractor $40/hr for a helpdesk guy, helpdesk guy sees obviously far less. Or I'm wrong and misunderstood what he was saying. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Also, I'm referring to the Oil & Gas industry in Calgary (AB, Canada) - which would likely end up being similar to Denver CO (since the industry footprints are similar in the two cities). Also, all those numbers are only semi accurate for a person's first job in one of those roles - the non-tier 1 roles scale up fairly quickly with seniority. sizerp fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 18:21 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:19 |
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three posted:Any company paying helpdesk $40/hour is dumb. Well, on the flip side of that anyone making 15/hr as helpdesk is also dumb. Or at least so lacking in self-confidence or ability to move somewhere that jobs pay what people are worth or whatever mitigating factors may be screwing you. Good companies will pay good people really good money. Seriously. I'm not sure anyone's actually paying 83k/year for helpdesk, but you can without a doubt make that in your 2nd IT job in almost any metro area. balance that number out appropriately for your locale, I mean I assume nobody's making 83k as a junior sysadmin in Topeka, but if you're making 40k in Topeka you're probably doing well according to the standard of living there. 40k in NYC doesn't even let you get a decent apartment by yourself, so clearly salaries are a bit "off" if you're not in a real city.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 19:45 |
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NYC is the salary exception, don't base anything on its salaries - you'll make 1/3rd of that regardless of what metro you've wound up in.
vty fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 20:47 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 20:42 |
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Telex posted:Well, on the flip side of that anyone making 15/hr as helpdesk is also dumb. Help desk is meant to consist of new, relatively unskilled workers. People should get their raises by specializing or moving up. Paying a high amount for a relatively easy position to fill is not a recipe for success.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 20:43 |
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Telex posted:Well, on the flip side of that anyone making 15/hr as helpdesk is also dumb. My brother lives in Topeka. He's lovely at his job, but was making 15 an hour doing tier 2 helpdesk, and then got a state job doing sys admin work paying 23 an hour. Either job would let him live comfortably in Topeka. Too bad he's an idiot and got fired from both of them.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 20:48 |
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skipdogg posted:My brother lives in Topeka. He's lovely at his job, but was making 15 an hour doing tier 2 helpdesk, and then got a state job doing sys admin work paying 23 an hour. Either job would let him live comfortably in Topeka. Too bad he's an idiot and got fired from both of them. Haha, how do you get fired from an IT job? I have been laid off a couple times, but basically all you have to do is show up on time, do your job, and not be a dick about it.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 20:59 |
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cptInsane0 posted:Haha, how do you get fired from an IT job? I have been laid off a couple times, but basically all you have to do is show up on time, do your job, and not be a dick about it. I know of a sysadmin who got fired because when the college moved from SMTP to exchange a fuckup (not sure of the details . . . I was still pulling cables and deleting porn viruses from student computers back then) resulted in about a quarter of the entire campus' emails being lost. Although it wasn't really so much of a firing as a "How about you resign and we write you a glowing recommendation" situation.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 21:21 |
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cptInsane0 posted:Haha, how do you get fired from an IT job? I have been laid off a couple times, but basically all you have to do is show up on time, do your job, and not be a dick about it. Generally I agree. But I've seen it happen a number of times, to competent people at that, in government contracting. It's one of those odd industries where the customer/person you report to has the ultimate say and complete authority to tell you to go gently caress yourself. If youre a contractor, and you butt heads with a government person you can get fired for stupid poo poo (in an at-will state at least) because its all about making the customer happy, not the contractor. VVV true story VVV Walked fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 21:33 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 21:22 |
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Walked posted:Generally I agree. But I've seen it happen a number of times, to competent people at that, in government contracting. It's one of those odd industries where the customer/person you report to has the ultimate say and complete authority to tell you to go gently caress yourself. With great government responsibility comes great self-important retired military senior NCOs and officers.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 21:24 |
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COCKMOUTH.GIF posted:FYI I was in the same $17/hr position that gave me six years of experience, but my boss was a huge douche. I was offered a $25/hr job with a much larger company, but would be on a 90 day probationary period. I took that poo poo and would suggest you do the same in your situation if you're as unhappy as I was. While it is a contract position, they may hire you on permanently if you're good. Even if they don't then hey, at least you're not in the unhappy job. So I had a phone interview for the position. Not sure what I should do if I get an offer. I'd be working directly for an IT firm contracted to help a large PC manufacturing company move their datacenters for 6 months. I'm not even sure what skills I'd learn on the job.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 00:41 |
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I'd jump at the opportunity to move datacenters for 6 months. If it was a straight physical labor job, you wouldn't need 6 months - there'll be plenty of time to get into the how and the why of everything, that sounds like great experience.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 00:48 |
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I've always been of the opinion that project oriented work is far more fulfilling than consistent work. Unless you have a family and need stability, I think you should take it if you get the offer.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 00:59 |
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cptInsane0 posted:Haha, how do you get fired from an IT job? I have been laid off a couple times, but basically all you have to do is show up on time, do your job, and not be a dick about it. Without going all E/N about it, my brother is a pretty big fuckup. He doesn't understand how to act appropriately in business situations, especially around Conservative Christian Bible Thumpin' Kansas folks. He also has a really bad drug addiction (weed and oxy), he is never on time for anything, is generally unreliable, and has no real world IT experience, but he did finish his 4 year degree which is why he keeps landing these jobs. He has a CS degree from a 4 year (took him 8 years), but walked into his first day at his first IT job and didn't know how to reset a password in AD. The sad thing is he asked someone instead of just trying to figure it out himself and from then on everyone assumed he didn't know poo poo. The official reason he got fired from a STATE job is he had a complaint filed against him for making homosexual innuendo to a co-worker. I guess they played the 'gently caress with someones computer if they leave it unlocked' game, and a 3rd co-worker left a crazy message about how my brother was so in love with him and wanted to be with him, and they all had a laugh. My brother doesn't know when to stop, so he kept it going for a couple days, asking to hold the guys hand, and trying to setup dates and the guy got fed up and filed an HR complaint. He was still in his 6 month probationary period so they just fired him. Anyway, I could go on all day, but it boils down to the guy is an immature fuckup and drug addict. He's almost 29 and has tons of problems, we've all offered help but he refuses. I won't even let him near my kids. Anyway, E/N over.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 01:10 |
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skipdogg posted:Without going all E/N about it, my brother is a pretty big fuckup. He doesn't understand how to act appropriately in business situations, especially around Conservative Christian Bible Thumpin' Kansas folks. Your brother got fired for sexual harassment against a dude. 
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 02:39 |
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three posted:Your brother got fired for sexual harassment against a dude. In a nutshell..... pretty much. That was the official reason, but he was always late for work, showed up dressed in ill fitting clothes, never really shaved or cut his hair, didn't carry himself properly in the workplace and didn't meet deadlines for given work. He wasn't going to make it past the 6 month probation anyway, but this gave them the ammo to get rid of him ASAP. Right now he's sitting at home getting high and counting on his unemployment to come in so he can 'take a break from the stress he's had lately'. I hope there is no new MMORPG's coming out. He had over 1200 hours in Final Fantasy before he finally quit.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 04:26 |
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l;
MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at Jun 4, 2012 around 22:45 |
| # ? Feb 4, 2012 18:33 |
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Okay so, bit of a vulnerable post, so stick with me here. Most of your daily routine in Windows Systems Admin is user permissions, if you plan out a windows domain right then other than adding users, tweaking permissions, reading logs, printers, and fixing client machines/apps; It is pretty laid back. Best thing you want to know is what to do when poo poo goes wrong, if poo poo is up, from my experience you are basically invisible to the company just show up on time and don't be a dick and you'll be fine. It is when poo poo hits the fan you need to know that theory. Just don't seclude yourself to windows OS make sure you learn things like sharepoint/lync(Office Communicator)/Exchange/VPNs/Security and the like, sharepoint specifically so many companies are wanting that cluster gently caress now.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 19:18 |
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So recently, a friend of mine was tasked with creating a sharepoint intranet at the small company he works at. Since I do this for a living, he asked for some advice, which I then gave to him, because I believe knowledge should be shared. Today, I got a message from him saying his bosses approved every change I recommended, but that they don't have the expertise to do said changes, and would like to pay me to work remotely as a consultant. I already have a job so, I would only be doing this after hours, and from the sound of it, it's probably something I can do fairly easily. It is a tiny job compared to the Intranet I built at work. My question is, what kind of consulting fees should I charge? I have done network engineer consulting in the past, and my company charged about 200 dollars an hour, but when I did it on my own time, I would charge anywhere from 50-120, depending on the amount of work and expertise required, as well as the size of the company, since I like to be fair. Should I charge a similar rate for this? Good sharepoint people are few and far between, and I know it will be more work than programing a cisco router, but I also want to be fair to my friend and the small company he works for. I will be able to judge my exact rate once I get all the info I requested, but I'd like to get some other opinions too.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 23:05 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 11:39 |
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Charge them market rate. Consulting rates are funny as most people equate a higher rate = better work. They'll dismiss someone too cheap because they think the work won't be as good. Also remember you'll have a different tax situation for picking up some 1099 working and might have extra costs associate with that. I have a friend that charges 150 an hour for smaller jobs and 125 an hour for steady work/long term contract and he always seems to have work.
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| # ? Feb 5, 2012 04:49 |
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