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The A+ cert is, if you don't have any prior work experience in IT, an absolute necessity for getting your foot in the door in the industry. There's also absolutely no reason why you have to wait until the end of the class to take the A+ test - there's a book called A+ In Depth that will cover EVERYTHING, but I found Meyer's Passport book very useful in passing the test. Remember, the A+ test is not proof that you know everything about computers, but rather that you know a minimum standard. And with your time playing around with computers already it should get you past the HR drones and in front of someone who would be willing to take a shot on you because of that A+ cert.
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 15:15 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 09:03 |
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Crowley posted:Maybe one of those at-will states? Right to work states, and yeah I live in VA which is one. If someone has enough nepotism and just doesn't like you a complaint to person X will get you out of there fast. Chances are they were probably trying to cut some fat and first person who got it was gone regardless who it was Corvettefisher fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2011 around 15:21 |
| # ? Dec 1, 2011 15:16 |
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teethgrinder posted:I don't want to insult the poster, but that story sounds completely unbelievable unless there's a lot more to it. Some employers are just walking bags of dicks. My last employer fired me for not being able to produce a 3-ring binder. He had asked me to pass on a message to an admin assistant in the office (where I didn't work) to create said binder, and when she tried to give notice less than a week later he simply told her not to come back. Because I couldn't produce a putative item he was sure existed, I got let go. Now, he was/is a bipolar megalomaniac, and I'm amazed he isn't in prison right now, but some people just suck and there's nothing to be said or done about it.
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 15:29 |
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Phenotype posted:I figured this thread would be a good place to ask: What's the most efficient way for me to become competent enough to do entry-level tech support work? I need to become employable within the next year for certain. I'm currently enrolled in a certificate course at my CC that finishes in April and is supposed to get me ready for the A+ test, but I'm realizing the limits of the class and I'm not sure that I'm really going to have enough knowledge at that point. I have a lot of time "working" with computers, in that I'm relatively confident putting together hardware and installing drivers, but there is a FUCKTON of stuff that is only acronyms to me at this point, and it's hard to figure out where to latch on. My instructor recommended reading the book Windows Internals, but again, there's a lot of stuff that's over my head. It seems like I need some experience actually working one of these jobs before I worry about more certs, but I'm not sure what I'm really qualified for at this point. Find a place that will hire you to do entry level tech support, honestly. Most of these positions, unless they're at a major company, don't have a large set of requirements. Some may require you to have your A+, Net+, or Sec+, but in all likelyhood they'll just want either an A+ or test you on practical knowledge. Can you format a machine and get it ready from the ground up for joining to a domain? Can you configure software and printers over a network? How about transferring files from a users old desktop to their new one? Can you troubleshoot a busted internet connection? Are you comfortable on both Windows XP and Windows 7? The #1 thing to have in your arsenal when doing entry-level (and even some higher up) IT related work is amazing Google skills. That and Printers. Good christ gently caress printers. Printers are the great satan on the IT world, they never work right, and even when the printer itself operates normally, the drivers don't. Familiarity with MS Office (2003 and 2010) would be a huge bonus, specifically Word and Outlook, Excel is nice but I find that I did very little excel troubleshooting when I started out doing desk jockey support. Most of your day is going to be formatting machines, removing viruses, maybe some light ADDS work if it's a position with room to move up, and a *lot* of fixing peoples little quirks or bugs with their office software or any in-house software the company you work for uses, which is part of on-the-job training and you won't (or shouldn't) be expected to have fluency in before starting there. I think I spent more time teaching people how to turn off caps lock, type their own name, or select the printer they want to make a print from than I did any "serious" work. Anything past that in which you feel uncomfortable, it might be a good idea to list some of the things you want help with so people can point you in the right direction for educational material. That help? Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2011 around 17:10 |
| # ? Dec 1, 2011 17:06 |
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Digital_Jesus posted:The #1 thing to have in your arsenal when doing entry-level (and even some higher up) IT related work is amazing Google skills. This cannot be stressed enough. I'm at my very own "Baby's first IT job" and Google is my best friend. Was a musician before this, but settling down with a kid in tow was in my cards. 2 of my former bandmates worked helpdesk here, now one is doing some DBA and another is a Network Engineer (still for the same company) so there is some upward mobility. I'm thinking of going back to school for CS...I've been teaching myself C# and Python and I'm getting into it. I like the abstraction.
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 17:33 |
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teethgrinder posted:I don't want to insult the poster, but that story sounds completely unbelievable unless there's a lot more to it. Setting up an entire lab of desktops to use wifi instead of Ethernet was the unbelievable part to me. Who does that?
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 17:48 |
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sanchez posted:Setting up an entire lab of desktops to use wifi instead of Ethernet was the unbelievable part to me. Who does that? People who cannot get the requested ethernet drops due to institutional malaise/cash/whatever.
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 18:03 |
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Walked posted:Even living out where I do, I live within 15minutes of work, and within 5 minutes of three independent bars. But I also got a pretty nice apartment right on top of a pretty nice town. An update to my situation (for anyone who was following which is noone). I declined the job offer  They followed up with a pretty aggressive counter-offer. Guess whose moving to the big city? 60% increase in salary all said and done.
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 18:12 |
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Walked posted:An update to my situation (for anyone who was following which is noone). WOW that isn't bad
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 18:29 |
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teethgrinder posted:It seems insane that the poster wouldn't have been able to plead his case and demonstrate the teacher was a complete abject failure. "HEY LOOK I'M ON THE INTERNET". When you are a contract employee, you can't take it up to any union or such, and they can fire you without two weeks notice or such, or whatever. Most of IT is contract positions. They had all of the paperwork for firing me to go since "not having internet in a lab for 4 months is INEXCUSABLE-- THINK OF HOW MUCH CLASS THEY MISSED!" And I was escorted out of the school as soon as they took my keys. I only found out that was why I was fired a few days later by a teacher who took over. No time to really plead a case. Being fired from there was actually quite refreshing. I had been dealing with similarly bullshit things for 5 years. The place will most likely burn without me, I was being underpaid to hold their poo poo together by strings, so I am not too broken up. Just a pretty good story for this thread. Most IT people are considered 'wasted money' by management, as when technology is working fine no one notices and thus they think they should not be paying you. It is a similar idea to people thinking "why should I pay for fire fighters when 99.9999% of the time my house is not on fire?" sanchez posted:Setting up an entire lab of desktops to use wifi instead of Ethernet was the unbelievable part to me. Who does that? They didn't want to pay for a conduit out to the portable under their precious football field, nor pay for a new spool of Ethernet cable, since "you're setting up wireless already"-- hence the wireless bridge I set up from the admin building to the portables (which probably wound up costing more than a conduit ever would have, BUT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED WORK ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD!!!!!!!!!!!). This was signed off on by the principal before summer, and she forgot after summer. The teacher in the room was never aware of this, and that is why for four months she thought there was no internet. She probably still thinks there is none. She's also head of her department, so it is not like she is getting fired over it. This is why it is worth it to be part of a union. That teacher is. I was not. Basically a cautionary tale of how in IT you will be dealing with people who have no idea what technology is, from the lowest rung user you support to the highest levels of management that sign your checks. jeeves fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2011 around 19:02 |
| # ? Dec 1, 2011 18:42 |
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Well I was right -- there was a lot more to it. I know you were just trying to get to the crux of it, but thanks for filling in the blanks.
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| # ? Dec 1, 2011 19:12 |
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jeeves posted:Most IT people are considered 'wasted money' by management so while this is partially true, you're saying it in a way that doesn't represent the true scope. IT is a cost center, of which there are plenty in any business. You make the company zero dollars, and you tend to have expensive employees and you end up spending a lot of money. The key, is good upper and middle management that isn't incompetent and can justify both salary/positions and appropriate spending to keep the infrastructure going. It shouldn't be the domain of a low level employee to justify anything, your Manager/Director level people should be at least moderately social enough to get their point across in a non-nerdy way to people who give zero fucks about anything but making their ipad work. I think the interview process should be your time to grill the person that's going to be your buffer from the loving idiots. I know a lot of idiots out there ask no real useful questions in a job interview but I think it's super loving important in IT to make sure you're working for good people and not yes men who won't have your back. You gotta get that info out of them before you take the job.
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| # ? Dec 2, 2011 06:18 |
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Digital_Jesus posted:
Thanks for the helpful reply, and thanks to everyone else too. I'm not sure how I feel about Googling skills being important, but hell, that's how I've gotten through everything else I've done. I'm honestly not even sure where I'd like to start from a business perspective. NAS and server-based storage stuff? I have a powerful router with USB-attached storage at home that I run a couple TB of media off of, and I'd like to eventually upgrade to a proper server, so it'd be personally helpful, at least.
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| # ? Dec 2, 2011 08:17 |
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Telex posted:so while this is partially true, you're saying it in a way that doesn't represent the true scope. I suck at asking questions during interviews that don't sound like I'm in the running for the gold at the Special Olympics - what questions should you ask and what answers should you be looking for?
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| # ? Dec 2, 2011 13:28 |
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Daylen Drazzi posted:I suck at asking questions during interviews that don't sound like I'm in the running for the gold at the Special Olympics - what questions should you ask and what answers should you be looking for? Good ones, without knowing what job youre interviewing: - How did this position become available? Is it a new position or did someone leave or get promoted? - Can you tell me a bit about the team I'd be working with? How about the work atmosphere? - Hopefully through some of the T&A you have some idea of their infrastructure already, but if not, ask about their IT infrastructure. - Can you describe what you are/arent looking for in a new hire for this spot? And then all sorts of stuff depending on the actual job. Ask them about upgrade plans. What your first 30 days would be like. You can also bring up advancement, technologies that arent a part of the job description that you may like to work with, etc. This seems like a lot, but its not. In my opinion, the key is to discuss these during the interview. Look for opportune times to address these questions while theyre asking you stuff. Make it a conversation/discussion. Note: In IT I've seen this advice turn horribly bad at interviews. If you dont think you have the confidence or conversational skills to discuss this during the interivew, there isnt anything wrong about waiting until it's over either.
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| # ? Dec 2, 2011 13:34 |
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2 weeks ago I finally got my first real job in IT (I've only been an intern before). I'm just writing SQL queries and procedures all day long, but it's a start. I think DBA is the way to go from here, oracle certs are rather expensive though. Luckily we're only 10 people in the department and everyone's very friendly, so I'll surely pick up some useful knowledge along the way.
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| # ? Dec 4, 2011 16:20 |
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Tab8715 posted:For those that didn't finish school - how did you get pass the HR requirement of 2/4-year degree? Walked posted:They followed up with a pretty aggressive counter-offer. Guess whose moving to the big city? 60% increase in salary all said and done. jonnypeh posted:2 weeks ago I finally got my first real job in IT (I've only been an intern before). I'm just writing SQL queries and procedures all day long, but it's a start. I think DBA is the way to go from here, oracle certs are rather expensive though. Luckily we're only 10 people in the department and everyone's very friendly, so I'll surely pick up some useful knowledge along the way. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at Dec 5, 2011 around 15:49 |
| # ? Dec 5, 2011 15:44 |
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evil_bunnY posted:Take on stuff that's just on the edge of what you know you can do, then get certified for stuff you already know how to do. This involves educating yourself on your own though. I worked my way up to managing an IT department by doing exactly that. It's fun and challenging at the same time. (I quit the management job for a sysadmin job with the same pay and better benefits. Turns out I like footwork more than managing. Still looks good on my CV though.)
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| # ? Dec 5, 2011 19:15 |
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Anybody else have the problem where the General Manager of a plant expects you to do something at will, yet your actual IT boss is stationed off-site? I'm currently a Helpdesk/Junior Systems Admin Lite and we had a new General Manager start and he gets absolutely furious when I tell him I have to get approval to do something from corporate. Apparently he was told that he is the direct boss of everybody in the facility, however the IT manager told me I still report to corporate office. Only issue is that I'm stationed at the facility with the General Manager every day except Wednesday. I'm not exactly having a fun time being told to do two opposing things daily and then getting yelled at when I listen to the GM's demands. Also, can discussions be considered "official" disciplinary action if the are not conducted with direct management present? I was brought in before HR a few weeks ago by the GM and the HR associate where I work and was accused of insubordination because I asked the IT manager if something was okay to do (as per his instructions). When this matter was brought to the attention of my IT manager, he told that he would bring the matter up to corporate and would handle it accordingly. I guess at this point I should just wait to hear for a response.
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| # ? Dec 5, 2011 20:45 |
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Vargatron posted:Anybody else have the problem where the General Manager of a plant expects you to do something at will, yet your actual IT boss is stationed off-site? I'm currently a Helpdesk/Junior Systems Admin Lite and we had a new General Manager start and he gets absolutely furious when I tell him I have to get approval to do something from corporate. Pretty simple. Have your IT manager send notice to the GM at the plant that you're under corporate policy restrictions and all IT decisions must go through the corporate office. Also get copied on that email. Also print it. Also print it twice.
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| # ? Dec 5, 2011 20:46 |
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Vargatron posted:Anybody else have the problem where the General Manager of a plant expects you to do something at will, yet your actual IT boss is stationed off-site? I'm currently a Helpdesk/Junior Systems Admin Lite and we had a new General Manager start and he gets absolutely furious when I tell him I have to get approval to do something from corporate. I have had something like that, Get a letter in writing from the IT manager that is off site saying "You have to get approval to do anything outside of X" If the General Manager still berates you talk to HR show the letter and bring in an email/request where be blows up at you to the HR and go from there. The only thing you can do to stop this or at least make it so you can do X for person Y is to have a paper trail that shows you are in the right. Other than that it is a he said she said and the person higher in the company will always win.
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| # ? Dec 5, 2011 20:52 |
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Vargatron posted:Anybody else have the problem where the General Manager of a plant expects you to do something at will, yet your actual IT boss is stationed off-site? I'm currently a Helpdesk/Junior Systems Admin Lite and we had a new General Manager start and he gets absolutely furious when I tell him I have to get approval to do something from corporate. Tell the GM to take it up with your boss, but until word comes from corporate that you have been reassigned you don't answer to him. You are perfectly happy to assist in whatever fashion you can, but unfortunately there are some requests that must be approved by your official supervisor before they can be acted upon.
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| # ? Dec 5, 2011 20:53 |
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I suppose I will get something in writing if the situation doesn't improve. At least I have the backing of the corporate office, so for whatever that is worth, I'll take it. This job was great until the GM was hired and started making excessive demands and I don't want to have to leave the company over something like this. I appreciate the advice.
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| # ? Dec 6, 2011 00:23 |
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If you don't report to the GM, it is unlikely he can fire you. I'd avoid pissing off the person that could fire you.
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| # ? Dec 6, 2011 01:15 |
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Touching on HRs requirements and the title/cert they expect to cover that... Here is a snippet for some kind of Networking position Position requires at minimum a CCENT or 2 years of experience. Required Skill Set for the Network Engineer: * Point to Point T1 using PPP or MLPPP encapsulation * VPN-MPLS WAN (this not VPN or MPLS, but a VPN in an MPLS cloud) * EIGRP and BGP routing * IPSEC VPN * Frame-Relay * GRE Tunneling * WAN optimization, preferably Riverbed Steelhead but Cisco WAAS would work * Understand Layer 2 and Layer 3, able to troubleshoot accordingly * VLANs, trunking and Ether-channels * Spanning-tree Minimum expectations from the above list for the Network Engineer position: * Cisco Certified Entry Network Technician ( CCENT ) as a minimum or 2 years of experience * Understand Layer 2 and Layer 3, able to troubleshoot accordingly * Point to Point T1 using PPP or MLPPP encapsulation * BGP routing Plus or be nice to have for the Network Engineer position: * WAN optimization, preferably Riverbed Steelhead but Cisco WAAS would work * BGP routing * VPN-MPLS WAN (this not VPN or MPLS, but a VPN in an MPLS cloud) * Cisco Voice experience * Multicast experience It does not however, actually talk about a CCNA or a CCNP. I mean really, I understand experience trumps actual certs, but it seems like a wild mismatch to expect someone who just completed a CCENT to be able to do what they are asking straight up, or am I crazy?
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 03:02 |
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Lazer Vampire Jr. posted:I mean really, I understand experience trumps actual certs, but it seems like a wild mismatch to expect someone who just completed a CCENT to be able to do what they are asking straight up, or am I crazy?
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 04:53 |
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Lazer Vampire Jr. posted:Touching on HRs requirements and the title/cert they expect to cover that... Hahahaha, no 2 years of experience and wanting to have someone with that required skill set? I would expect to see a CCNP going for a job like that, not a CCENT. Christ, that's almost as bad as some of the Network Architect positions that I have seen that have 3 years experience as the minimum requirement with no conceptual requirements. How can you have minimum expectations and a required skill set? WTF?
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 06:15 |
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 06:26 |
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Lazer Vampire Jr. posted:Touching on HRs requirements and the title/cert they expect to cover that... As a CCNA with 2 years experience I think they should be looking for someone with a CCNP and 6 years experience. Maybe they offer extensive training in-house?
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 13:48 |
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ZeitGeits posted:As a CCNA with 2 years experience I think they should be looking for someone with a CCNP and 6 years experience. Maybe they offer extensive training in-house? Yeah. The CCNA doesn't cover any of that in enough depth.
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 14:15 |
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Lazer Vampire Jr. posted:
Yeah that is CCNA + lots of exp level stuff or CCNP. They are probably just throwing that in there to get keyword hits, or they know they can't pay for a ccna/p so they are taking what they can
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| # ? Dec 8, 2011 14:19 |
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Oh are we at the part of the thread where we post unrealistic job postings? This was the posting for my position, which is literally, as I've said before, "baby's first IT job" and to which I entered coming off a full time musician gig with "no" experience: HR Dumbass posted:-3-5 years technical experience
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 02:02 |
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Most places I see with unrealistic requirements are smallish businesses who have no idea what they're even asking for. Either that or they advertise for a helpdesk job when it turns out to be a enterprise server venture. It's either retardedly high or retardedly low expectations where I live. Oh well, that's the Dirty South for you.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 03:12 |
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aBagorn posted:Oh are we at the part of the thread where we post unrealistic job postings? drat, I've seen so many of job posts just like it. I tend to skip them because I only have experience with half of the list. I'm going to apply to them all from now on.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 04:09 |
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Vargatron posted:Most places I see with unrealistic requirements are smallish businesses who have no idea what they're even asking for. Either that or they advertise for a helpdesk job when it turns out to be a enterprise server venture. Or its just some HR goon posting something they don't understand. In any event, just submit your resume and see what happens. No harm, no foul in that.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 04:45 |
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Revalis Enai posted:drat, I've seen so many of job posts just like it. I tend to skip them because I only have experience with half of the list. I'm going to apply to them all from now on. Go for it. It's not like applying for these jobs is going to go on record and show up as black marks. I did feel a little inundated the first week or so, but luckily some of the seasoned guys here were quick to help at, and now, 6 months in, I'm branching off and exploring areas of IT I had never thought I could do, and holding my own. There's a ton of "on the job" training with these entry level help desk type positions, and if you can Google, you're golden.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 05:06 |
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aBagorn posted:There's a ton of "on the job" training with these entry level help desk type positions, and if you can Google, you're golden. every day I live in fear that someone in charge will discover that this is basically how I solve all my problems. I also feel as if I should donate some of my salary to Google as a tithe for making sure I can stay employed by being able to figure out what the nuggets of useful information are on Google whenever I can't figure something out on my own. The dirty secret seems to be that a sysadmin is just someone who has a couple years worth of experience using Google to solve their problems, and not necessarily an abundance of vast knowledge at their fingertips.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 05:24 |
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Telex posted:every day I live in fear that someone in charge will discover that this is basically how I solve all my problems. The most valuable skill is the skill of Googling. If you've mastered that you can do anything.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 05:50 |
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Telex posted:every day I live in fear that someone in charge will discover that this is basically how I solve all my problems. I actually answered a question at my interview (not the one with HR, but the one with the actual dept) with, "I would probably Google that in order to get the solution the user needed" Both dudes were impressed that A: I admitted that I didn't know something; and B: I was willing to increase my knowledge base quickly to increase efficiency (or some bullshit like that)
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 11:15 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 09:03 |
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Telex posted:The dirty secret seems to be that a sysadmin is just someone who has a couple years worth of experience using Google to solve their problems, and not necessarily an abundance of vast knowledge at their fingertips.
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| # ? Dec 9, 2011 12:23 |
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