|
All Poodles were bred for hunting, even the little Toys. Some lines still breed for hunting, as it's gotten very popular in the last few years. There are quite a few Poodles who have their conformation championships, plus titles in hunting and many other things. The best Poodle hunting stories I've heard? One involves a Miniature, and the other a Toy. At a Hunt test, the Miniature was doing well, until he lost his duck in the water. He knew what to do, though. He swam to shore, got a duck out of the bag, and brought that one back. It's not like the dumb human can tell the difference, right? The Toy was out with a man and his friends one morning, along with an older Lab. When they shot their ducks, the Lab couldn't be bothered to move, but the little Toy could. She went and brought back both ducks. After that, whenever they went out, they had to bring Missy or she'd pitch a fit. I've never hunted ours, but I have one who would be good at it--she's not gun-shy, she retrieves no matter the obstacle, and she's intrigued by birds.
|
| # ? Jan 15, 2012 01:04 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2013 07:20 |
|
|
Roloc posted:Anyways this freaking Terrier was walking with us back to the cars and all of the sudden veers off into a bush and comes out with a freaking bird!!! It didn't even flush it just grabbed it and killed it before the bird even knew what was going on. It was nuts. Then the trainer had a hell of a time getting the dog to bring the bird to him, apparently they don't listen well Not to derail but god my Patterdale Terrier is exactly the same. She's taken rabbits before, doesn't really want them but sure as hell doesn't want no human having them either! We use her as a rat deterrant for the most part though, she's never been trained in any ratting but we've not exactly disuaded her from it.
|
| # ? Jan 15, 2012 11:27 |
|
|
Khazar-khum posted:All Poodles were bred for hunting, even the little Toys. Some lines still breed for hunting, as it's gotten very popular in the last few years. There are quite a few Poodles who have their conformation championships, plus titles in hunting and many other things. Originally they all were yes however there are very few lines going for pure hunting poodles in my experience. Now I have seen a couple here and there but mostly they take the show qualities and breed them and try to breed out the hunting qualities because they can lead to undesirable show traits. Now any hunting dog will still have it's instincts and it takes obviously a long time to breed out but when you are a breeder and you focus strictly on mild temperament or physical traits that are for beauty not function then you are going to get a dog that doesn't live up to the full potential of the breed. I honestly looked long and hard at the standard poodle because of the lack of shedding and their intelligence but I couldn't find one breeder in Colorado that was focused on hunting and breeding hunting poodles so it was to risky for me. Meles meles posted:Not to derail but god my Patterdale Terrier is exactly the same. She's taken rabbits before, doesn't really want them but sure as hell doesn't want no human having them either! No derail at all. We decided that if we are talking about dogs that hunt anything it was meant for this thread 
|
| # ? Jan 15, 2012 16:00 |
|
|
Thanks so much for this thread! I've got a 5 year old Brittany Spaniel that my wife and I adopted early last summer. From what I've seen, she has an incredible drive for anything smaller than her and covered in fur or feathers. I'd love to teach her how to behave in a constructive manner when she's excited about pigeons or squirrels (or ducks or raccoons...). However, I've never hunted a thing before. I have zero experience with training a hunting dog and don't have any close family that could help out either. Is it worth finding and paying someone to help train her just for the fun of it? And even if all I do is shoot things with this do I need to licence my dog? Here's the trouble maker in question:  And here she is looking a squirrels out of our window: 
|
| # ? Jan 28, 2012 16:02 |
|
|
Tertiary Stresses posted:Thanks so much for this thread! You know I shoot way more things with my camera than I do with my gun . The hunting season is only like 3-4 months long max. Grouse season is like 1-2 months. That leaves a whole lot of time for your dog to be tearing up the house or going crazy.I go on "scouting" trips all the time but really what they are are long walks through fields or mountains watching my dog waste all the built up energy that they have, on all of these trips I take cameras just for fun. Some of the coolest pictures I have (and framed) are of my dogs in the field just having fun. Contrary to most spaniels Brittanies act more like pointers than flushers and you can get some excellent pictures of your dog or even what it is pointing by training it to point and hold the point until you give the ok. There are a couple of words of caution though: 1) You have the added benefit of letting your dog hunt any kind of game. Most upland bird hunters will discourage their dogs from pointing squirrels and the like because that is not the game they are after. However you don't care so let it point what it wants, within reason. You need to maintain control over your dog until you feel 100% confident that it will be near you when you want it to. That means either a very long check cord or a e-collar. You wouldn't want it bolting after a deer or a bear or something and never seeing it again. 2) You have to find someway to reward it that is just totally freaking awesome. A dog that points a bird and never gets to pick the bird up or eat part of the bird later (liver treats...) will simply get bored and or rush birds or just act like an rear end in a top hat in the field. They have to know they are working towards something. You probably know best what that is. For my labs it was always when they got to retrieve a dead bird... they freaking loved it... since you can't very well show them a picture of a bird, you have to find that replacement. Is it worth paying someone for? In my opinion no. I love hunting and being out in the wild with my dogs but would I ever send them off to a trainer for 6 months so they could be awesome at hunting... no. Does it mean more birds lost? yes of course. But it isn't worth it to me to pay a hunting trainer I can't much say it is worth it to you. At the very basic level you are simply letting your dog run around like crazy int the woods/hills/plains doing what their instincts tells them. A lot of people get pissed when they lose the game so they train harder and pay more money etc to make sure it doesn't happen again. You my friend don't have that burdon and you should relish in it and just have fun And for the record, yes I do sit around waiting for people to reply to this thread so I don't get accused of bumping it!  Edit: ohh and no you don't need a license for your dog other than your local normal dog licensing laws. Also you need to check the area that you are going and make sure that there are no leash requirements. Double Edit: I also wanted to let you all know that I just spent an ungodly amount of money on a new GPS / E-collar http://www.sportdog.com/Gear/TEK-Se...EK-GPS-E-Collar I wanted a GPS system for the dog so that I could find it in the mountains as well as E-Collar features. I got it for like $500 on a whim when I saw it on sale. I will let you all know how it works in the wild. So far it accurately locates him in my backyard
Roloc fucked around with this message at Jan 30, 2012 around 18:57 |
| # ? Jan 30, 2012 18:16 |
|
|
I have very nearly put my iPhone in a waterproof bag and duct taped it to my dogs harness with a gps running just to see how much ground he covers on a long yomp. I swear for every mile I go he goes three.
|
| # ? Feb 13, 2012 17:02 |
|
|
Rapulum_Dei posted:I have very nearly put my iPhone in a waterproof bag and duct taped it to my dogs harness with a gps running just to see how much ground he covers on a long yomp. I swear for every mile I go he goes three. People are using GoPro cameras for just that.
|
| # ? Feb 13, 2012 22:57 |
|
|
If all you need is GPS the Garmin Astro is pretty sweet. http://sites.garmin.com/astro/ I looked into it but in the end it came down to having the nice GPS features (maps, point icons, etc) of the Garmin and having my dog wear a second e-collar or having less GPS features and having the Collar combined. In the end I went with the one collar solution. I hear that Garmin bought tri-tronics though which makes good e-collars so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come out with their own combo version shortly.
|
| # ? Feb 14, 2012 22:29 |
|
|
Rapulum_Dei posted:I have very nearly put my iPhone in a waterproof bag and duct taped it to my dogs harness with a gps running just to see how much ground he covers on a long yomp. I swear for every mile I go he goes three.
|
| # ? Feb 14, 2012 22:57 |
|
|
Roloc posted:If all you need is GPS the Garmin Astro is pretty sweet. I'd really like to get the Astro, unfortunately it's completely illegal to own or use in Canada because of the radio frequencies used.
|
| # ? Feb 15, 2012 03:40 |
|
|
Riiseli posted:A small tracker/logger will do the trick get two and log both of your routes. Something like Holux M-241 or i-Blue 747A+ and I think I've been recommended something even simpler and cheaper once, but couldn't find the recommendation. Well you say cheap - for the same money you can buy a sim free android phone with gps which has far more possibilities.
|
| # ? Feb 15, 2012 13:22 |
|
|
Rapulum_Dei posted:Well you say cheap - for the same money you can buy a sim free android phone with gps which has far more possibilities.
|
| # ? Feb 15, 2012 13:31 |
|
|
My neighbour's beautiful dog Kai. I have some photos of him training I'll post later, but they're on my other computer.
|
| # ? Feb 15, 2012 15:46 |
|
|
Ikantski posted:I'd really like to get the Astro, unfortunately it's completely illegal to own or use in Canada because of the radio frequencies used. Yikes. I am surprised Garmin doesn't have a comparable solution there. Seems like they are missing out on a lot. Speaking of using GoPro's for this stuff I am going to do this one day with my dog in the field. For some reason I just think having it point a bird from it's perspective would be really cool. I wish I had this guys editing skills though: http://kelseyw.com/dog-park/
|
| # ? Feb 16, 2012 00:05 |
|
|
I finally got some old photos scanned . Have some Boykin Spaniels (click for big): Woody:  In the field, (well, relaxing yet not letting you out of his sight before a dove hunt):  Woody and Katie:  Katie with some of her puppies (approx 2wks old):  And Buckwheat, one of their pups:  All of them were and are excellent retrievers, especially duck hunting in the swamp where their relatively compact size really lets them shine and carry that amazing nose just about anywhere.
|
| # ? Feb 21, 2012 01:25 |
|
|
My family hunts rabbit with beagles in Southwest Missouri. I trained my dog Toby from a puppy and he is our best hunter currently, not much for running with the pack but as a solo hunter he is amazing. I'm not sure how much training there really is with a beagle puppy I pretty much just had to provide the opportunity for him, with some dogs it just clicks. I did expose him to a lot of loud noises as a puppy, I would always clap really loud when we played around the house and I would bang on pans when I fed him. I have seen plenty of beagles that loved to bark at rabbits but if you fired a shotgun they wanted to go home. Together we took around 20 rabbits this season alone. Baby Toby  ether bunny fucked around with this message at Apr 2, 2012 around 04:35 |
| # ? Feb 21, 2012 16:13 |
|
|
Anyone know of any reputable redbone coonhound breeders in the midwest?
|
| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:11 |
|
|
I looked all over for coonhound breeders for you but could not find any recommendations :/ sorry... Also Reilly went in to the vet yesterday and came out half the dog he was the day before.... so yeah he got neutered. He has been super sleepy and quiet the last day or so. I hope he perks back up and I didn't just have his soul cut out .Or like the breeder was telling me... "God gave him those parts, it's up to you if you want to cut them out or not..." even when I said I had no intentions of breeding him
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2012 19:02 |
|
|
Incredulous Red posted:Anyone know of any reputable redbone coonhound breeders in the midwest? God, breeder websites are always so ridiculously bad (if they even exist at all). This site has a list of breeders for working dawgs, you could probably find what you want there. These guys seem alright, and they're located in Ohio... they only sell to working/performance homes and their dogs seem pretty well titled. They seem pretty dedicated to improving the breed and I see a lotta dead raccoons in those pics.
|
| # ? Mar 3, 2012 19:43 |
|
|
So I was out training Reilly the other day and I am currently working on retrieving. Pointers aren't exactly known for their retrieving abilities but it can be done. He will retrieve on the check cord just fine with a few "hints" here and there but when I let him off he is more excited to run around with whatever he finds than bring it to hand. Well I don't know if this was just genius to me or not but I figured I would use two objects! For instance I take one squeaky ball and throw it and when he gets it and I give him the come command I bring the other one out and squeak it. Maybe it is just him but he will bring the other ball back and drop it on command and then fetch the new ball. Obviously I can just rotate balls or dead birds or whatever we are fetching this way and it has been really successful. Eventually I just stop throwing the new one and pick up the one he drops and keep it going that way. Just a little tip I found out with him and wanted to share
|
| # ? Mar 24, 2012 21:33 |
|
|
Roloc posted:So I was out training Reilly the other day and I am currently working on retrieving. Pointers aren't exactly known for their retrieving abilities but it can be done. That's great! Though, I would recommend backchaining the retrieve instead of using two balls. Back chaining is basically teaching the end part first (the retrieve to hand). The first thing the dog learns will become the most solid link in the chain. Dogs don't need much help learning to run after game/toys, so leave that part for last. Here's a video of backchaining a bird dog to retrieve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oFO9Z0oHBA And here's a few spergy posts by us in the Training Megathread (boy, we sperged hard on retrieves not too long ago): http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...9#post394683669 http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...9#post394744553
|
| # ? Mar 24, 2012 23:13 |
|
|
Roloc posted:So I was out training Reilly the other day and I am currently working on retrieving. Pointers aren't exactly known for their retrieving abilities but it can be done. This is the tiny brittany Seri, for whom retrieve became a safety zone. If she got anxious, she'd retrieve something to her owner and feel better. This is one of those times as here she is retrieving a "forgotten" jacket: 
|
| # ? Mar 25, 2012 09:30 |
|
|
That's good advice from both of you thanks. I will give them a try. I never had to train my labs to retrieve really so this is kind of a new area for me. One of the things I am struggling with now is how to reward Reilly. I think he is doing well with just flat out praise now but he really doesn't eat much and gets board with treats after 1 or 2 of them. I have tried hot dogs, cheeses and about a million other store bought treats. But for a dog who hardly eats his meals and is VERY lean treats just don't seem to do it for him. I've asked the vets about this and she said it is common for young pointers 6mo - 1year to basically fast at times and not to be to worried, although she always gives me poo poo about seeing his ribs when I bring him in... silly vets. I was just thinking that one way with the birds would be to get him to pick them up then use his toy as a reward thus rewarding him and throwing the next ball in the chain kind of thing when we were out in the field.
|
| # ? Mar 25, 2012 15:06 |
|
|
Does he tug? If so, I'd use tug as a reward in lieu of another thrown ball, since tug is the dog getting reinforcement directly with YOU, not across the field with a ball. Plus tug can be done in short spurts, and you can control it more easily than a game of fetch. You can also start building the value of food via transferring of reinforcement, though most people have to build more interest in toys via food, not the other way around. Play, offer food, and if he takes the food, start playing again. Stop, give food, play, etc. Over time the excitement and reinforcement he gets from playing will be transferred to food. The easiest dogs to work with find food and play equally reinforcing, and luckily with a bit of work we can make that a reality.
|
| # ? Mar 25, 2012 15:56 |
|
|
Thank you so much for this thread I had a Beagle growing up and while I didn't hunt with him we did spend a lot of time out in the woods behind our house letting him do what he was born to. The concept of working dogs has always intrigued me and when I worked at the humane society I was always happy to see people adopt a working dog to work. I don't remember many hunters coming through, but I know there were at least 1 or 2 dogs that were planned to be hunters. Never saw them come back through so they must have been successful.
|
| # ? Mar 25, 2012 21:15 |
|
|
Yea he does tug although I really try to avoid it so he doesn't try to tug on birds and such. I know you can disassociate it and have just a tugging toy, but still I can hear my grandpa telling me its a bad idea everytime I do it. I am going to give that chaining a go I think. I like the idea of that a lot more than the traditional hunting approach which would be like "force fetch" or something similar.
|
| # ? Mar 26, 2012 13:04 |
|
|
Yeah, all the advice I've heard says not to play tug with bird dogs at all unless you want the dog to develop a hard mouth and start playing keepaway. Clicker training really worked for me when teaching my pup to retrieve. There's a twinset of gundog training books ('Taking Control/Further Control') which basically advocates back chaining without calling it such. It's worked a little too well - I threw an apple core away into the moors on the walk yesterday, and she very diligently went and retrieved it back for me  . At least it wasn't horse poo this time!
|
| # ? Mar 26, 2012 13:12 |
|
|
Incredulous Red posted:Anyone know of any reputable redbone coonhound breeders in the midwest? If you're looking for performance dogs, look up Clinton Mink in Indiana, Timber Choppers Redbones in Virginia, or Kelly Hyde/Death Row in Iowa. Most performance breeders will ship and going south of the Mason/Dixon is usually your best bet for a good working coondog. Otherwise I'd just ask around with other hunters you might know; the working breeders I know don't advertise a lot, they just end up handing off pups to their buddies. (Death Row, and lots of other hunting breeders, used to brand their dogs but they've made the switch to microchips and an ear tattoo, so don't get too sketched out about the pictures of dogs with "DR" stamped on their flank.)
|
| # ? Mar 26, 2012 17:17 |
|
|
Crosspostin' dis from the Random Nonsense thread, but Mouse caught her first rabbit today .  Just a diddy one, but the important thing is that she retrieved it live to hand after she caught it. 10 months of training paid off! 
|
| # ? Apr 21, 2012 21:47 |
|
|
notsoape posted:Crosspostin' dis from the Random Nonsense thread, but Mouse caught her first rabbit today That's awesome Congrats Mouse and owner!! I am going to take Reilly out this weekend or next to see if we can scare up some grouse. He is heeling and all the other basic obedience commands pretty good now on the lead. I need to do a lot more work with him in the field and on the check cord. I can't wait until the season opens in September to really see what he can do. I have been slacking on the videos and pictures but I will get some more up here shortly.
|
| # ? May 4, 2012 13:39 |
|
|
ARISE THREAD I have a Brittany puppy who's almost 5 months old. His name is Olly. This is the best picture I have because I can't get him to sit still for 2 seconds:  He's incredibly birdy and is already starting to point robins and other songbirds. He hasn't shown much inclination to retrieve yet, so I may have to put him through force retrieve training when he's a year or so old, but he's still young so he might end up liking it. Hopefully I can get him into some birds soon, but the last year or so has been really rough on quail in this part of the country.
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2012 22:41 |
|
|
poopgiggle posted:
There are other equally effective, cruelty free ways to teach a retrieve.
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2012 23:16 |
|
|
The only "cruelty" in the method I'm familiar with is a light ear pinch. I'd prefer to use a natural retrieve method but if he has no natural inclination to retrieve then I don't see a way around it. E: this is going to be the first dog I've trained myself and I got all my knowledge and gear from my grandpa who's from an era before people worried about that so much. I've got "How to help gun dogs train themselves" by Joan Bailey and Winterhelt's NAVHDA book, which advocates force retrieve. If you could suggest some other resources I'd love to hear about them poopgiggle fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 01:48 |
| # ? Jun 7, 2012 01:38 |
|
|
Notsoape has been doing a lot of retrieve work with her dog lately, so maybe she'll chime in too. My dog didn't have much of a retrieve drive, but I've created a very reliable retrieve via reinforcement and backchaining. When my dog is in work mode she'll happily retrieve desired obstacles without more than a cue, and she'll do it speedily and happily. Here's a video on how to train a bird dog to retrieve via back chaining: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oFO9Z0oHBA Here's a page that breaks down the method into tiny tiny little pieces: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html We spoke a lot about the process of teaching our dogs to retrieve here in the Dog Training Megathread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...9#post394683669 On this forum we tend to prefer positive reinforcement based methods over others (the ear pinch would be a negative reinforcement method). The ear pinch can of course be successful, but teaching a dog to love retrieving (instead of being compelled to retrieve) can see equal success, with the added bonus of your dog enjoying every step of the process. What sort of trouble are you seeing in your retrieve? Will your pup chase game/toys, but not return to hand? The nice part about back chaining a retrieve is that the returning the object to your hand becomes the strongest link in the chain, and becomes reinforced by every other behaviour that precedes it. We'd be happy to help you troubleshoot, if you care to! a life less fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 02:07 |
| # ? Jun 7, 2012 02:05 |
|
|
poopgiggle posted:The only "cruelty" in the method I'm familiar with is a light ear pinch. I'd prefer to use a natural retrieve method but if he has no natural inclination to retrieve then I don't see a way around it. This is pretty much how most gundog puppies first start practicing here: http://youtu.be/KCbKGxd-4wY Usually one will stop throwing the item pretty quick. And there is often quite a bit of carrying dummies and game on a leash too, if the dog is willing to do that. Seri the tiny Brittany, whose pic is on page three, had a back chained retrieve. -- On a slightly related note the border collie TyTy will carry (trash) birds. So maybe I'll get a functioning retriever out of her, if she's not afraid of gunfire.
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2012 07:51 |
|
|
Riiseli posted:This is pretty much how most gundog puppies first start practicing here: http://youtu.be/KCbKGxd-4wY That is exactly what I've tried doing except with a retrieving dummy. It became obvious that the dog wasn't so much running towards me as he was trying to get past me so he could run away with the dummy and chew on it. hug -> Praise -> "give" -> praise didn't seem to make him any happier about the arrangement. He's pretty much 100% on getting stuff that I throw, it's just giving it back to me that's the problem.
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2012 15:41 |
|
|
Holy smokes I am slacking in my own thread. As this is my first non natural retriever I am training I fear the same things you are. The trainer I talk to every now and then says that not to even worry about fetching and especially not force fetching until they have a season of just "fun hunting" behind them. I am at that point with Reilly actually and although I have to fight the urge to do any more hard core training on retrieving, so for now I just keep it a game. I put him on the check cord and throw dummies, balls, sticks... whatever and then just reel him in while we are doing yard work. Reilly is the same way, the giving it to me is an issue. So the cord or in a hallway or some place where he has no choice but to go through you to get away works well. I do this for as long as he thinks it is fun which for him is usually only 4-5 times but it is increasing every time. Also I got him on birds today for really the first time. He was point pigeons in launchers almost right away and wouldn't even move when I launched them! I can't wait to hunt with him in Sept!!! 
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2012 21:51 |
|
|
Roloc posted:The trainer I talk to every now and then says that not to even worry about fetching and especially not force fetching until they have a season of just "fun hunting" behind them. This is the approach I'm using. I'm just focusing on getting Olly outside and letting him enjoy himself and learn how to search cover. SRS BSNS hunting will wait until next year when he's more mature. I took my dog out to some public hunting land yesterday to let him run around. He took right to searching fencelines and field edges. If there were any quail left in NE Oklahoma I'm sure he would have found them.
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2012 00:28 |
|
|
poopgiggle posted:This is the approach I'm using. I'm just focusing on getting Olly outside and letting him enjoy himself and learn how to search cover. SRS BSNS hunting will wait until next year when he's more mature. Ha that's like Pheasants or anything in eastern Colorado. I take Reilly up into the mountains and let him look for Grouse. I call these "scouting" trips but if anyone knows anything about Grouse hunting you know you are always just "scouting"
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 15:37 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2013 07:20 |
|
|
So I figure I should post this. This is Bonnie (Clyde had to stay at the shelter) They think she's a Redbone mix of some kind, maybe with some bloodhound (though she doesn't seem to be big enough for that)  She's about 6 months old  I wish she was that lazy all the time  Her sole joy in life is destroying things Anyway, once we get more of the basic obedience down (and the return/here command, because she's a damned hound and not built for that), she's going to get a job. I'm thinking coursing and/or scenting. Because she needs an outlet for being a hound.
|
| # ? Jun 16, 2012 19:54 |
|
