|
chairface posted:I gave the Wabbajack to Cicero. It's what Sheogorath would've wanted and him and Sithis are about the only aedra/daedra that make good sense anyway. Sithis is a bit more bedrock than that. The Aedra and Daedra are personalities, folk you could meet. Sithis and Anu are bedrock. They are change and stasis, chaos and order. You are...unlikely to meet or communicate with them in any real sense. And you probably don't want to, if it comes to that. You can counter the schemes of the Aedra and Daedra, you can just about barely conceive of them and their realms. Sithis is, in some sense, responsible for everything. That's not a dude you want to mess with, if such a thing even has a concrete existence at all.
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2012 06:59 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2013 20:22 |
|
|
Boogaleeboo posted:Sithis is a bit more bedrock than that. The Aedra and Daedra are personalities, folk you could meet. Sithis and Anu are bedrock. They are change and stasis, chaos and order. You are...unlikely to meet or communicate with them in any real sense. And you probably don't want to, if it comes to that. You can counter the schemes of the Aedra and Daedra, you can just about barely conceive of them and their realms. Sithis is, in some sense, responsible for everything. That's not a dude you want to mess with, if such a thing even has a concrete existence at all. All Gods' children must die.
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2012 07:02 |
|
|
I Said No posted:It's entirely more likely he saw the Champion on the rise, thought "MONKEY CHEESE FOR EVERYONE!! He can also be a mean rear end in a top hat. http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:16_Accords_of_Madness,_v._XII Poor Malacath, poor ugly bastard can't catch a break. 
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2012 07:07 |
|
" and did whatever the gently caress he wanted with no actual thought process to it.
|
chairface posted:I gave the Wabbajack to Cicero. It's what Sheogorath would've wanted and him and Sithis are about the only aedra/daedra that make good sense anyway. Well, Sithis would make sense if he actually loving existed. 
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2012 17:34 |
|
|
Is there anything other than the Legate's memoirs of the Great War that mention the Void Nights and the dissolution of Elsweyr into Anequina/Pellitine and its absorption into the Aldmeri Dominion? I really am having trouble seeing the Khajiit going along with an elf-lead alliance with the Bosmer with that much gusto. From their very creation myth they aren't disposed to get along well at all. That and the whole Thalmor taking credit for the void nights deal when it's the Khajiit and not the elves who should know the secrets of the lunar lattice makes it hard for me to believe the Khajiit are any more excited about being Dominion citizens as they were Imperial. Add to the lack of any Khajiiti aid in the war against the Empire and I'm not really seeing the Aldmeri Dominion as much more than Altmer and Bosmer who have just the slightest leg-up on the Empire. Whoever wins in Skyrim I don't see the Thalmor getting that much of a huge advantage. If Empire wins they'll face a united Empire again; if Nords win, they face a bunch of anti-elf-racists waiting for them behind Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. Trustworthy posted:Well, Sithis would make sense if he actually loving existed. Hey, the Dark Brotherhood worship a totally legitimate God that totally isn't Mephala in a paper mask at all ok. DADDY SITHIS 
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2012 15:32 |
|
|
FlocksOfMice posted:Is there anything other than the Legate's memoirs of the Great War that mention the Void Nights and the dissolution of Elsweyr into Anequina/Pellitine and its absorption into the Aldmeri Dominion? I really am having trouble seeing the Khajiit going along with an elf-lead alliance with the Bosmer with that much gusto. From their very creation myth they aren't disposed to get along well at all. That and the whole Thalmor taking credit for the void nights deal when it's the Khajiit and not the elves who should know the secrets of the lunar lattice makes it hard for me to believe the Khajiit are any more excited about being Dominion citizens as they were Imperial. Considering how crafty and conniving the Khajiit have always been I wouldn't be surprised if they joined the Aldmeri simply to stab them in the back at the right moment. The way I see it the higher-up Khajiit knew they couldn't fight them so they joined up, pretended to be fans of the Thalmor and then when the time is right, betray them.
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2012 18:17 |
|
|
Red Mundus posted:Considering how crafty and conniving the Khajiit have always been I wouldn't be surprised if they joined the Aldmeri simply to stab them in the back at the right moment. A bit like the Empire, then  But yeah, I was under the impression that while the khajiit have these strong mystical roots and all, as a whole they don't really separate the facts from the faith, it's all the same moonsugar-induced crazy poo poo to them. I mean, their pantheon reads like a child's understanding of the aedra and daedra: Mehrunes Dagon is an eternal kitten because kittens are destructive and rebellious, Sheogorath is the skooma cat because he's loving crazy, etc. Hell, you go on a quest for the madgod just to gently caress with some small khajiit community in Oblivion by exploiting their backwards beliefs. Now the argonians, those motherfuckers are the "gently caress you, get out and stay out or we will murder you, we've existed since time has as crazy drug trees and we've got ancient magics you high elf bastards have never even heard of" group.
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2012 21:15 |
|
|
FlocksOfMice posted:Hey, the Dark Brotherhood worship a totally legitimate God that totally isn't Mephala in a paper mask at all ok. DADDY SITHIS Sithis is Padomay, the primordial incarnation of Chaos and Change. One of the few universally worshiped elements of reality. Even sentient trees that could give less of a gently caress about the Daedra acknowledge Sithis. Mephala taking credit for Change, all of it, is pretty...laughable. A little Daedra versus the original Creator Deity? No.
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2012 00:48 |
|
|
The Dark Brotherhood if anything are worshiping a chopped-up version of Lorkhan, who himself is an "offspring" of Sithis. They're really stupid and -y about it, but they're not completely wrong.
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2012 01:35 |
|
|
Is there any actual proof to back up this "Sithis is someone else" business, or is it a fan theory?
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2012 01:56 |
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Now the argonians, those motherfuckers are the "gently caress you, get out and stay out or we will murder you, we've existed since time has as crazy drug trees and we've got ancient magics you high elf bastards have never even heard of" group. Yeah I personally would find and Argonian setting for the next game way cooler then an Aldmeri setting. The Argonians are badasses to the core and it would be fun to get to be super important in their culture.
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2012 02:16 |
|
|
Sithis as Padomay is in a bunch of books, the biggest talking about the relationship between Sithis and Anuiel would be the Monomyth. They are abstracted as the "IS" of Anuiel and the "NOT IS" of Sithis, with the "Maybe" of reality as we know it in-between. Lorkhan as child of Padomay/Sithis also gets mentioned a bunch of places, including the Monomyth. Lorkhan is weird in that way, being somewhat closer to the original spirits known as "Aedra", but always being clearly defined as 'of Sithis' like the Daedra. "Dark Brotherhood not really worshipping Sithis" is something that gets brought up in books too, but never by themselves. Doesn't really have any backing to it, much like the Night Mother just being some chick or Mephala.
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2012 02:17 |
|
|
I don't think the problem is they're not really worshipping Sithis or not so much as Sithis isn't a thing that worshipping would ever serve any purpose. It's not a he, or an it, that has wants or desires or concerns. It just is. It's a force. The Dark Brotherhood are kinda dumb though. What can ya do.
|
| # ? Jun 14, 2012 16:39 |
|
|
The Dark Brotherhood are kind of dumb because Emil Pagliarulo sucks at writing convincing characters and story. The Dark Brotherhood, along with a whole bunch of other groups/people/races/etc in the ES world were supposed to be pretty tough nuts and hardly "dumb" but they got hosed by the bad character development in Oblivion and Skyrim.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 00:04 |
|
|
Nulity posted:the bad character development in Oblivion and Skyrim. .....as opposed to the really intelligent and well put together factions and characters in Morrowind and Daggerfall?
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 00:29 |
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:I don't think the problem is they're not really worshipping Sithis or not so much as Sithis isn't a thing that worshipping would ever serve any purpose. It's not a he, or an it, that has wants or desires or concerns. It just is. It's a force. That's a whole separate issue from "lol they're worshipping Mephala and don't know it lol," though. I don't remember any dialogue that gave me the impression that anyone in the Brotherhood actually believes that Sithis is anything other than literally The Void. In fact I'm pretty sure someone straight up explains it to you, that Sithis is a cosmic force, a philosophy, an idea, rather than a daedra you can just walk up to a statue of and be like "hi, give me loot!" Maybe it was Astrid. I don't know, it's been a lot of game hours since I went through the DB plotline. When my new Khajiit stops loving around with local quests in Markarth I'll go do it again.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 00:32 |
|
|
To me, the really weird thing about Sithis (if "he's" indeed anything more than a simple, universal, non-sentient concept of "nothing" or "void") is that he functions more like a "real world" god than any typical Elder Scrolls deity. Because of his nature, he doesn't walk or talk or influence anything in any observable way, so with Sithis you automatically start getting into issues of faith and dogma. I dunno; I just find it interesting that you could have a legimate debate in Tamriel about whether Sithis actually exists, whereas if you asked that same question about Mara (or Nocturnal or Talos or Vivec), people would likely chalk you up as a retard or mental patient.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 02:38 |
|
|
Trustworthy posted:To me, the really weird thing about Sithis (if "he's" indeed anything more than a simple, universal, non-sentient concept of "nothing" or "void") is that he functions more like a "real world" god than any typical Elder Scrolls deity. Because of his nature, he doesn't walk or talk or influence anything in any observable way, so with Sithis you automatically start getting into issues of faith and dogma. I dunno; I just find it interesting that you could have a legimate debate in Tamriel about whether Sithis actually exists, whereas if you asked that same question about Mara (or Nocturnal or Talos or Vivec), people would likely chalk you up as a retard or mental patient. Nonexistence of Sithis does not preclude Sithis, for he is nonexistence. Just as I think therefore I am, He Isn't, therefore He Isn't.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 03:35 |
|
|
mushroom_spore posted:That's a whole separate issue from "lol they're worshipping Mephala and don't know it lol," though. I don't remember any dialogue that gave me the impression that anyone in the Brotherhood actually believes that Sithis is anything other than literally The Void. In fact I'm pretty sure someone straight up explains it to you, that Sithis is a cosmic force, a philosophy, an idea, rather than a daedra you can just walk up to a statue of and be like "hi, give me loot!" Well in Oblivion especially the Dark Brotherhood definitely viewed Sithis as a thing that actually gave a poo poo about them, they personified him heavily which makes them dumb because Sithis gives no fucks nor is capable of giving any fucks. Admittedly I can't comment on the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood except to say that they fell down a flight of stairs. Stairs shaped like knives.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 04:54 |
|
|
Oblivion also had a shrine to Sithis that rewarded you proportionate to how evil you were too. And the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood killed an Emperor and ditched their dead weight, so they aren't doing too bad.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 05:03 |
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Well in Oblivion especially the Dark Brotherhood definitely viewed Sithis as a thing that actually gave a poo poo about them, they personified him heavily which makes them dumb because Sithis gives no fucks nor is capable of giving any fucks. I didn't play Oblivion, but what anthropomorphizing of Sithis there is in Skyrim (books, DB, etc) all feels like symbolism-laden metaphors because talking about a nonentity is hard. So there's that angle too. I mean it's pretty unlikely that some woman actually had sex with Sithis. You're getting into some weird Lessons of Vivec territory at that point.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 06:41 |
|
|
mushroom_spore posted:I didn't play Oblivion, but what anthropomorphizing of Sithis there is in Skyrim (books, DB, etc) all feels like symbolism-laden metaphors because talking about a nonentity is hard. So there's that angle too. This might be slightly unorthodox, but according to my personal doctrine Sithis basically has his lips wrapped around all our cocks 24/7.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 18:19 |
|
|
Trustworthy posted:To me, the really weird thing about Sithis (if "he's" indeed anything more than a simple, universal, non-sentient concept of "nothing" or "void") is that he functions more like a "real world" god than any typical Elder Scrolls deity. Because of his nature, he doesn't walk or talk or influence anything in any observable way, so with Sithis you automatically start getting into issues of faith and dogma. I dunno; I just find it interesting that you could have a legimate debate in Tamriel about whether Sithis actually exists, whereas if you asked that same question about Mara (or Nocturnal or Talos or Vivec), people would likely chalk you up as a retard or mental patient. Yeah, atheism doesn't really exist in Tamriel. I guess the closest approximation is someone like Elsa God-Hater: they acknowledge the gods exist, they just believe that their apathetic and don't actually help anyone. Even that one Talos preacher says that you don't actually go to Heaven/whatever and hang with Talos when you die, but you should still worship him because...I'm not sure.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 19:46 |
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Even that one Talos preacher says that you don't actually go to Heaven/whatever and hang with Talos when you die, but you should still worship him because... He shortens the cool down on your shouts! The gods do have an effect on peoples lives like all the amulets that don't actually have an enchantment but still help somehow or the miracle shrines. You worship them to get these obviously,though since you the player will save the universe they probably throw some extra effort your way even if you don't directly worship them.
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2012 20:33 |
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Yeah, atheism doesn't really exist in Tamriel. I guess the closest approximation is someone like Elsa God-Hater: they acknowledge the gods exist, they just believe that their apathetic and don't actually help anyone. Even that one Talos preacher says that you don't actually go to Heaven/whatever and hang with Talos when you die, but you should still worship him because...I'm not sure. It should be noted Else God-Hater is a Mythic Dawn agent, for what it's worth.
|
| # ? Jun 16, 2012 10:36 |
|
|
I'm playing a Nord my first time through, so I took my inspiration from Norwegian Black Metal and decided I hate foreigners telling me who I can and can't worship. It's time to burn their churches and murder them all! 
|
| # ? Aug 16, 2012 20:53 |
|
|
I wish you could join the Thalmor if you chose High Elf. Do a bunch of spy work to weaken the Empire and Skyrim at the same time. Also, did the peace talks for the first time and man Ulfric is a whiny bitch that doesn't know what the word "fair" means. I wish you could challenge him to a duel and shout him to death just to show the world that he's weak. Even better would be killing him with a ton of Skeevers.
|
| # ? Aug 16, 2012 23:09 |
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Some might call these posts junk. Me? I call them treasures.
|
| # ? Aug 17, 2012 23:01 |
|
|
Nasgate posted:I wish you could join the Thalmor if you chose High Elf. Do a bunch of spy work to weaken the Empire and Skyrim at the same time.
|
| # ? Aug 22, 2012 00:50 |
|
|
Stumbled upon this (and because I'm bored)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V28qvTRFQd8 Doesn't mean I agree with the video though. I'd rather let Dovahkiin to be the ruler of Skyrim.
|
| # ? Aug 22, 2012 13:02 |
|
|
Section 31 posted:Stumbled upon this (and because I'm bored)... Goddamn Stormcloak apologists!
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 11:41 |
|
|
Section 31 posted:Stumbled upon this (and because I'm bored)... I can't believe I watched the whole thing  It makes a lot of odd leaps of logic, though: that a xenophobic Skyrim united under the Stormcloaks will have a better chance of gaining allies and mustering a fighting force than the eons old empire did especially considering that the empire, after Ulfric's defeat, would have the same ties plus the, you know, entire Legion at its forefront. The only real outlier is Hammerfell, and if you read the subtext right, the Legion didn't so much abandon them as it withdrew while secretly leaving behind an adequate fighting force. Why Hammerfell would then fall in with the Stormcloaks when even the most neutral party (Whiterun) act like racist pricks to them, I'm not sure. It also didn't take into account the fact that save the bastard Jarl of Falkreath, every other Imperial-backed jarl is fairly politically savvy and intelligent and every Stormcloak-backed jarl is a backwards, paranoid rear end in a top hat at worst or ineffective and incompetent at best. And maybe it's just because I'm spending a lot of time in D&D, but I can't help but see parallels in the Stormcloak arguments and Fox News. "Look, I don't hate dark elves and argonians, but they're just so lazy and poor!"
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 19:07 |
|
|
I think you're on to something. I thought the Stormcloaks being racist pricks was written too well for Bethesda, so maybe they did just think "Let's just copy the poo poo people say if they believe Fox news" Oh god, or maybe someone who watches Fox news was the writer, and thought they were making them sympathetic 
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 19:56 |
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Why Hammerfell would then fall in with the Stormcloaks when even the most neutral party (Whiterun) act like racist pricks to them, I'm not sure. In defense of Whiterun, they aren't racist to Redguards. I'm pretty sure there are Redguards living there and owning property and everything. They told those Alik'r mercenaries to gently caress off because they were running around ripping the clothes off of Redguard women to see if they had Saadia's identifying scar. Guard: "Look, you've already been told you're not allowed here. Turn around and go back the way you came." Alik’r: "We're causing no trouble. All we ask is to look for her." Guard: "I don't care what you're doing, after what happened you're lucky I don't toss you in jail. Now get lost." Alik’r: "We will be back. This is not over." You can meet them harassing women on the road pretty regularly.
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:16 |
|
|
Nasgate posted:I think you're on to something. I thought the Stormcloaks being racist pricks was written too well for Bethesda, so maybe they did just think "Let's just copy the poo poo people say if they believe Fox news" The whole civil war thing is interesting only because you cannot "win" and there are no right choices. It is why I save it for last, and also why I want to work on a complete overhaul, considering the many interesting plot threads it leaves behind. If the Empire "wins", the Legion overruns Skyrim with their rules, Nord "traditions" are basically thrown to the wind, the Thalamor are still in town, and your ruler is a puppet, but you have safety and economic stability, relatively speaking. If Ulfric wins, you have the rise of Nord power, a return to "your" roots, isolationism, and the threat of a Thalamor invasion, but you have "freedom". The threads that are never sewn up are: is Ulfric really a Thalamor spy (see the book you can find in the embassy), and they never call for the Moot, to decide who should be King. Personally, it would be far more interesting if the Moot is called that, if you are already Thanes of Holds, well liked by everyone, and you repel the Dragon menace, you should be nominated. Then Ulfric gets pissed and challenges you and you destroy him. If you helped the Empire, the Moot never happens, but they want you to marry the lady of Solitude. Either way would be kind of neat.
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:37 |
|
|
Darth Ballz posted:If you helped the Empire, the Moot never happens, but they want you to marry the lady of Solitude. But what if you're a woman? Is gay marriage a thing in the elderscrolls? I'm not sure the queen of solitude would be happy about being forced into a gay marriage. Would this lead into a hilarious misadventure? I sure hope so. EDIT-but yeah,I'm surprised nobody made a mod to flesh out the Civil war story line. Man Whore fucked around with this message at Aug 23, 2012 around 22:46 |
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:42 |
|
|
Man Whore posted:But what if you're a woman? Is gay marriage a thing in the elderscrolls? Ever since Skyrim (and probably Morrowind if you factor in modding).
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:43 |
|
|
Darth Ballz posted:The whole civil war thing is interesting only because you cannot "win" and there are no right choices. It is why I save it for last, and also why I want to work on a complete overhaul, considering the many interesting plot threads it leaves behind. If the Empire "wins", the Legion overruns Skyrim with their rules, Nord "traditions" are basically thrown to the wind, the Thalamor are still in town, and your ruler is a puppet, but you have safety and economic stability, relatively speaking. If Ulfric wins, you have the rise of Nord power, a return to "your" roots, isolationism, and the threat of a Thalamor invasion, but you have "freedom". The huge problem with this scenario is that the Empire being in control of Skyrim isn't new.
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:45 |
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:The huge problem with this scenario is that the Empire being in control of Skyrim isn't new. That is true enough, but the fact that Ulfric challenged the old king in battle, and it was acccepted, sorta meant, at least to many, that the winner of that was king. Also the Empire chose the last king, there was no Moot (i think).
|
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:50 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2013 20:22 |
|
|
Man Whore posted:But what if you're a woman? Is gay marriage a thing in the elderscrolls? Have your unmarried character talk to NPCs of their own sex while wearing the Amulet of Mara. There's your answer.  The Queen could be bisexual for all you know, all the other marriageable NPCs are. EDIT: That said, I think it would make more sense to just put her in charge. It seems like she's already possibly going to get picked, but she didn't want to talk about that possibility with her husband so recently dead. mushroom_spore fucked around with this message at Aug 23, 2012 around 22:57 |
| # ? Aug 23, 2012 22:53 |
|
