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DevCore posted:Maybe I'm being too OCD about the process? Could I just throw my existing drives with no change and do all the configuration I need without blasting it all to hell? You can configure hibernation and paging from your existing install, at least. To do the pagefile, go to Control Panel > System > Performance > Advanced and click "disable pagefile" and then "set". To disable hibernation, open up an administrator command prompt and type "powercfg.exe /hibernate off"
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Jul 18, 2014 22:01
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There's some confusion here, post-TRIM AHCI controllers running in IDE mode MAY pass TRIM, but almost always they have to be using MS's generic driver. Also why do this when AHCI offers much better performance. Older IDE-only controllers will not pass TRIM. Most pre-TRIM AHCI controllers do pass TRIM. There are notable exceptions like the nForce motherboards. Most controllers that do not pass TRIM will do so SILENTLY, ie. everything will report TRIM working but it's silently dropping the command to the drive, resulting in performance degradation down the line, see also NVMe drives running on Windows 7 (which DOES NOT pass TRIM commands outside of ATA ports), this is a new feature for storport in windows 8. edit: whoopsied some stuff regarding pre-TRIM AHCI, I said that they would mostly not work and that they would mostly work, they should work as correctly stated above. deimos fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:40
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Thanks for the good summary deimos! Additionally, some SSD controllers that claim to support TRIM do so by acknowledging the command and simply ignoring it, thus appearing to have TRIM support without actually implementing it. This was an issue on cheaper controllers from JMicron, I believe.
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Jul 18, 2014 23:50
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Regarding TRIM or system compatibility with TRIM; if in doubt, just go with a good SandForce drive.
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Jul 19, 2014 04:45
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I know what I'm doing: Samsung I don't know what I'm doing: Intel
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Jul 19, 2014 05:48
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I'm supposed to buy the Samsung Evo 850 Pro, from here, right? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360
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Jul 20, 2014 13:19
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Captain Pike posted:I'm supposed to buy the Samsung Evo 850 Pro, from here, right? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360
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Jul 20, 2014 13:25
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Have I missed rumors of consumer class SATA express drives, or is that just not something that will happen until next year? Now that Z97 is out I had hoped cheaper drives would follow.
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Jul 20, 2014 15:04
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I don't think the SSD market really does "rumors." Sandforce 3 will definitely have consumer-oriented drives made from it, and they'll definitely have SATA Express versions, and they'll definitely be out by the end of the year (unless they change the date again.
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Jul 20, 2014 15:21
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What's the best low end option when you don't really care about performance or capacity but want reliability? Specifically for a HTPC where I'm tired of the noise of spinning HDs but don't really care about speed at all and 64GB would be more than I'd ever need. I was going to get the Evo 120GB at $87 but even that is overkill for what I need. No writes really (everything is on a external NAS) so I'm assuming anything would last forever, but a reputation for reliability is nice.
Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 20, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 18:23
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Pryor on Fire posted:What's the best low end option when you don't really care about performance or capacity but want reliability? Specifically for a HTPC where I'm tired of the noise of spinning HDs but don't really care about speed at all and 64GB would be more than I'd ever need. I was going to get the Evo 120GB at $87 but even that is overkill for what I need. No writes really (everything is on a external NAS) so I'm assuming anything would last forever, but a reputation for reliability is nice.
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Jul 20, 2014 18:32
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So I think my SSD has crapped out on me. It's a Corsair Force 3 120GB just under 3 years old (still in warranty). Recently I had a few BSODs where NTFS.sys was the culprit, sometimes after these BSODs the SSD would not be detected by the BIOS - usually a restart was enough to get it to show again. During this time I backed up regularly as I thought the drive was going to die fairly quickly. Then all seemed fine for about a month, no BSODs, no problems being detected by BIOS, so yeah my backup routine slipped as I wrongly assumed the drive was back to normal. My bad.  Go to use the PC one day and the SSD isn't detected by the BIOS, I tried restarting several times, warm and cold boots - still nothing. Tried known good cables, different SATA ports on the motherboard, I've also tried it in another PC with no luck. Is there anything else worth trying to even temporarily get it to be detected so I can back up a few things? Or am I boned? I've already started the RMA process with Corsair.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:33
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Bad Habit posted:So I think my SSD has crapped out on me. It's a Corsair Force 3 120GB just under 3 years old (still in warranty). A thing that's worked for a friend of mine before when his SSD went incognito in the same fashion as yours was to, with the SSD plugged in, leave the machine to idle in the BIOS for about 20 minutes before restarting. While it did work for him, and got the drive to a stable enough point that he could upgrade the firmware, that was a Crucial drive (5000 hour bug). But anything's worth a shot, right?
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Jul 22, 2014 00:07
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What's the best drive to go for with a system that lacks TRIM? I'm hearing conflicting things from the last couple of pages so maybe I'm just being stupid: is it a Sandforce drive like the Intel or would a Samsung 840 pro/850 pro work better? Do Samsung controllers have onboard garbage collection like Sandforce does? Is that even an important factor? Lets assume for the sake of argument that I'm absolutely rolling in cash. EDITed to flesh out the question a bit TomWaitsForNoMan fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 11:12
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TomWaitsForNoMan posted:What's the best drive to go for with a system that lacks TRIM? I'm hearing conflicting things from the last couple of pages so maybe I'm just being stupid: is it a Sandforce drive like the Intel or would a Samsung 840 pro/850 pro work better? Do Samsung controllers have onboard garbage collection like Sandforce does? Is that even an important factor? Lets assume for the sake of argument that I'm absolutely rolling in cash. The 840 Pro is not a particularly good drive to run without TRIM, but the 850 Pro is. Sandforce drives are also excellent choices for TRIM-less operation and are significantly cheaper than the 850 Pro. Either way, you want to overprovision the drive - as in, leave 20% of it unpartitioned (so e.g. make a 200 GB partition on a 240 GB drive). All modern SSDs have garbage collection. It is important, which is why all drives have it, but few drives work well with ONLY garbage collection, without TRIM. Those drives that do are, pretty much, Sandforce drives, the 850 Pro, and the Intel DC S3500. If you are rolling in cash, then you could also go for an enterprise drive like the Intel DC S3700 or P3700. Enterprise drives have a lot of overprovisioning by default, as well as controllers optimized for workloads where even if there is TRIM, there isn't any time to take advantage of it because writes are constant. But such drives are way overkill for a consumer, with a lot of money going into solving problems that consumers do not have in the first place.
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Jul 22, 2014 11:25
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Factory Factory posted:The 840 Pro is not a particularly good drive to run without TRIM, but the 850 Pro is. Sandforce drives are also excellent choices for TRIM-less operation and are significantly cheaper than the 850 Pro. Either way, you want to overprovision the drive - as in, leave 20% of it unpartitioned (so e.g. make a 200 GB partition on a 240 GB drive). Thanks. I'm not actually looking to buy and I'm def not gonna ever buy an enterprise drive. I was just curious because I was confused about what the situation was these days.
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Jul 22, 2014 12:11
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Factory Factory posted:The 840 Pro is not a particularly good drive to run without TRIM, but the 850 Pro is. What are you basing this on? The 850 Pro uses the same controller chip as the 840 EVO. Obviously it's bound to have a different firmware build, and firmware is actually what makes a drive function well without TRIM, but I don't remember seeing a review which suggested that the 850 is different from its 840 predecessors in this way.
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Jul 22, 2014 12:13
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BobHoward posted:What are you basing this on? The 850 Pro uses the same controller chip as the 840 EVO. Obviously it's bound to have a different firmware build, and firmware is actually what makes a drive function well without TRIM, but I don't remember seeing a review which suggested that the 850 is different from its 840 predecessors in this way. AnandTech's review:   quote:When compared with the 840 Pro, the upgrade is tremendous. IO consistency was always the weak point of the 840 Pro, so it is great to see that Samsung has paid a great effort to fix that in the 850 Pro. A part of the performance increase obviously comes from the usage of V-NAND because with shorter program and erase latencies, the steady-state performance increases as the garbage collection takes less time and there are more empty blocks available. If you aren't familiar with the methodology, these consistency tests are performed on a drive full of data, so after the stock overprovisioning is sucked up at the beginning of the graph, the drive is operating the same way it would if TRIM were not functioning - full of data and with a read-erase-write cycle per write operation. Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 12:20
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Factory Factory posted:If you aren't familiar with the methodology, these consistency tests are performed on a drive full of data, so after the stock overprovisioning is sucked up at the beginning of the graph, the drive is operating the same way it would if TRIM were not functioning - full of data and with a read-erase-write cycle per write operation.
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Jul 22, 2014 15:03
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Intel 730 just dropped to 189.00 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IF4NGEU/
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Jul 22, 2014 18:28
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Ardlen posted:Does this mean that you don't need to overprovision the drive to get this performance without TRIM? Or is overprovisioning included in their methodology? The graphics I picked were "stock" overprovisioning, which is about 7% (the rough difference between base-10 gigabytes and base-2 gibibytes). They also test 12% and 25% overprovisioning, which tend to do better and better. Click through the link and click the buttons to see all the different tests. Our own recommended ~20% number comes from an (IIRC) IBM study of write amplification and was chosen because it was the smallest number that wouldn't cut the lifetime of your drive by one half or more through causing each 1 MB of your data to burn 2-10MB of write endurance on the SSD. On some drives (especially the 850 Pro), that's probably overly cautious, but it was very important for the original Samsung 840 (non-Pro, non-EVO).
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Jul 22, 2014 22:31
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Factory Factory posted:Our own recommended ~20% number comes from an (IIRC) IBM study of write amplification and was chosen because it was the smallest number that wouldn't cut the lifetime of your drive by one half or more through causing each 1 MB of your data to burn 2-10MB of write endurance on the SSD. On some drives (especially the 850 Pro), that's probably overly cautious, but it was very important for the original Samsung 840 (non-Pro, non-EVO).
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Jul 22, 2014 23:43
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Ardlen posted:Interesting. I checked their review, and it doesn't look like write amplification is mentioned. Is it architecture dependent, or was the IBM study definitive? I suppose with RAPID and TRIM, it isn't as big a deal anymore. It's dropped out of everyday chat about drives because write endurance is just a non-issue for consumers thanks to 1) realistic, non-panicky expectations, 2) larger, cheaper drives with more flash memory to use, and 3) good wear-leveling algorithms. When it's relevant, they bring it up (e.g. . It's also included in the general "How SSDs work" background articles, or when dealing with a drive that has real potential endurance issues like the 120 GB Samsung 840 non-Pro/non-EVO). Write amplification can be important to enterprise drives, though, which can be writing pretty much constantly for their entire lives, and write amp is a non-trivial factor in figuring out a drive's lifetime. IBM's study was not architecture-specific; it simulated a NAND-based SSD with perfect wear-leveling being written to constantly (alternatively, without TRIM). It also looked at the effect of static data (i.e. that which doesn't change) on write amplification. Consumer workloads include lots of static data, and that adds a certain baseline of write amplification. Here's a PDF of the study Here's the graphs based on which we said "20%":  The vertical axis is "write amplification factor" such that WAF = 1 means 2x write amplification, means 1 MB of your writes is 2 MB of write endurance used. Horizontal axis is how much spare area is provided such that 0.5 means 50% overprovisioning, means a 100 GB partition on a 150 GB drive. Though the graph only goes up to WAF = 5 (6x write amplification), real-world drives can suffer 10x or more write amplification in a worst-case scenario. All interesting stuff. All not very relevant to buying a consumer drive. Also important to note: we were originally talking about performance consistency, rather than write amplification. These things are correlated because they both rely on spare area and effective wear-leveling, but it's entirely possible to have good performance consistency and bad write amplification or vice-versa.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:57
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Are the currently available NVMe drives still limited to the XP941 and Intel's crazy expensive PCIe enterprise things?
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Jul 23, 2014 04:58
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After a long, harrowing journey trying to migrate my Windows 8.1 installation to my new 840 Evo, I have come to one conclusion: it is loving impossible. For some damned reason, it just isn't easy at all to deal with manually making a bootable efi partition. I instead installed Windows 8.1 fresh on my SSD in about 10 minutes flat and absurdly quickly installed most of my programs. Copied over most of my user data (also fast) and it's just like home. I've never had such a responsive computer. Definitely a worthy upgrade. e: To change the filesystem on the earlier SSD I was dicking around with, I copied over its contents temporarily. Had transfers hitting over 350MB/s  256GB 840 Evo <> 128GB SanDisk Ultra Plus ee: gently caress AMD, their drivers refused to install this time for some reason, had to install them via device manager in safe mode. PerrineClostermann fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 06:58
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OCZ Sata and first few gen pci-x revodrive ssd's were absolute poo poo, but what about the Z-drive p88 PCI-x8 series that was made for the server environment? I have a friend that's pulling one they used for a few years because they're upgrading their server drive to an Intel model and is offering to just give it to me. Question being, were the p88 series fairly solid since they were made for the enterprise market or were they absolute poo poo like OCZ's consumer drives?
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Jul 23, 2014 15:06
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keykey posted:OCZ Sata and first few gen pci-x revodrive ssd's were absolute poo poo, but what about the Z-drive p88 PCI-x8 series that was made for the server environment? I have a friend that's pulling one they used for a few years because they're upgrading their server drive to an Intel model and is offering to just give it to me. Question being, were the p88 series fairly solid since they were made for the enterprise market or were they absolute poo poo like OCZ's consumer drives?
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Jul 23, 2014 17:58
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PerrineClostermann posted:I instead installed Windows 8.1 fresh on my SSD in about 10 minutes flat and absurdly quickly installed most of my programs. Copied over most of my user data (also fast) and it's just like home. I've never had such a responsive computer. Definitely a worthy upgrade. Installing Lubuntu from a USB flash drive onto an SSD was an impressive experience. Same deal, power-on to first login in about five minutes flat. I literally spent more time going through the configuration prompts than copying data. That's even with a poo poo-tier CPU (AMD v140, 2.3ghz single-core) that wasn't helping. I was impressed with how well low-end systems can perform with an SSD. I wouldn't use it for video encoding or anything but it was perfectly responsive and usable for normal desktop stuff. I never did a scientific comparison but anecdotally it seemed more responsive than other nominally superior configurations with an HDD. I think it makes a big difference in the user experience, and from here out I'm using SSDs for all my primary system disks. keykey posted:OCZ Sata and first few gen pci-x revodrive ssd's were absolute poo poo, but what about the Z-drive p88 PCI-x8 series that was made for the server environment? I have a friend that's pulling one they used for a few years because they're upgrading their server drive to an Intel model and is offering to just give it to me. Question being, were the p88 series fairly solid since they were made for the enterprise market or were they absolute poo poo like OCZ's consumer drives? Enterprise disks are probably more likely to be heavily used and near their write-cycle capacity, OCZ doesn't have the best reputation, but free is free. If you have a machine that can boot from PCI-e you can use it as a Linux disk (with /home backed up or on a separate more reliable disk) or a hackintosh installation or something without worrying about your main disk. Or you can always throw your Steam library on it, or set it up as a big swap-file or something. Unless the drive has totally poo poo itself and belongs in the trashcan there's always a use for some free SSD space. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 19:39
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PerrineClostermann posted:After a long, harrowing journey trying to migrate my Windows 8.1 installation to my new 840 Evo, I have come to one conclusion: it is loving impossible. For some damned reason, it just isn't easy at all to deal with manually making a bootable efi partition. Hmm, I was thinking about picking up an EVO some time soon and this worries me. How well does that Samsung data migration tool work usually?
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Jul 23, 2014 20:20
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MonkeyNutZ posted:Hmm, I was thinking about picking up an EVO some time soon and this worries me. How well does that Samsung data migration tool work usually? I used it about two weeks ago for a windows 7 PC. Took about 25 minutes to move a little over 100gb of data. I had no issues.
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Jul 23, 2014 21:39
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Pryor on Fire posted:What's the best low end option when you don't really care about performance or capacity but want reliability? Specifically for a HTPC where I'm tired of the noise of spinning HDs but don't really care about speed at all and 64GB would be more than I'd ever need. I was going to get the Evo 120GB at $87 but even that is overkill for what I need. No writes really (everything is on a external NAS) so I'm assuming anything would last forever, but a reputation for reliability is nice.
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Jul 23, 2014 23:40
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MonkeyNutZ posted:Hmm, I was thinking about picking up an EVO some time soon and this worries me. How well does that Samsung data migration tool work usually? 2 different systems, zero issues. Works like magic.
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Jul 24, 2014 00:22
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Samsung Data Migration managed to do jack poo poo for me. I had two regular partitions on my drive, my OS and some Data.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:40
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So at work we get new laptops from HP with SSDs and all is good. Finally received one and just checked it, it's running a Lite-On S100 128GB.. Excitement over. It's faster than the ones with HDDs but it is an old SSD (I found some reviews from 2012!) and Lite-On is better known for CD drives than SSDs for sure.
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Jul 24, 2014 06:28
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atomicthumbs posted:Are the currently available NVMe drives still limited to the XP941 and Intel's crazy expensive PCIe enterprise things? XP941 isn't even NVME, it's an AHCI drive. I suspect it's going to take a while for NVME to trickle down to the consumer space.
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Jul 24, 2014 06:37
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BobHoward posted:XP941 isn't even NVME, it's an AHCI drive. I suspect it's going to take a while for NVME to trickle down to the consumer space.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:49
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Trip report: Just installed the intel 730 SSD. Holy snikes its fast. Even going from a SATA 2 SSD to SATA 3 on the same machine is noticeable (example: windows was at the desktop before the apps opened. They just "popped" in, like an unreal engine level load).
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Jul 25, 2014 06:30
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Samsung 850 Pro 256/512 for 200/400. Sounds like a decent deal for a high performance SSD, yea or nay?
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Jul 25, 2014 15:41
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Just came in to say holy poo poo what a difference it made going from Seagate 1TB 7200rpm to a 840 Evo 250gb. Everything is so snappy now.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:11
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totalnewbie posted:Samsung 850 Pro 256/512 for 200/400. Sounds like a decent deal for a high performance SSD, yea or nay?
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Jul 25, 2014 16:19
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