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DeimosRising posted:A quick note on size: no one in the NBA is listed at their actual height (or weight). Most players are listed several inches taller than they actually are - Dwight Howard at 6'11", measured at 6'9" at the combine; JJ Barea and Allen Iverson both listed at 6', saying they're 5'10" may be generous; Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, who have basically come to be the definition of shooting guards, are listed at 6'6", which is therefore regarded as the archetypal size for that position but they are are both closer to 6'4". On the other end of the scale, Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan are both listed at 6'11" despite being visibly taller than almost everyone in the league and among the tiny handful of 7 footers still getting playing time. rear end size can be substituted for wingspan when it comes to big man prowess, as well. See: Charles Barkley, Chuck Hayes
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 14:24 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 18:21 |
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BIZORT posted:The Pistons are pretty hosed but don't seem to know it since they've re-signed Tayshaun Prince for $30 million and gave way too much money to what they think is some young, developing player but isn't any good at all, Jonas Jerebko. There's not much point in keeping Prince around but at least they solved the backcourt logjam by releasing Richard Hamilton They also have Austin Daye who is a Tayshaun Prince clone Basically the current Pistons roster has been assembled with little to no thought
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:05 |
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I have a question that I haven't been clear on for a while. What exactly constitutes a 5 second turnover in play? I get it when you're talking about the inbounds pass, and I get the three second rule, but isn't it like, 5 seconds being "closely guarded" results in a turnover or something? How exactly does that work?
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:15 |
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I have a question that I haven't been clear on for a while. What exactly constitutes a 5 second turnover in play? I get it when you're talking about the inbounds pass, and I get the three second rule, but isn't it like, 5 seconds being "closely guarded" results in a turnover or something? How exactly does that work? You can't have possession of the ball and have your back turned to the basket for longer than 5 seconds.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:17 |
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Parlett316 posted:You can't have possession of the ball and have your back turned to the basket for longer than 5 seconds. Okay that makes perfect sense now, thanks!
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:17 |
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Parlett316 posted:You can't have possession of the ball and have your back turned to the basket for longer than 5 seconds. I don't think they put this into 2k12 because I post up idiots online for days with my point guard to watch their guys foul out from reaching calls in the first half.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:20 |
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Parlett316 posted:You can't have possession of the ball and have your back turned to the basket for longer than 5 seconds. It only applies below the free throw line extended.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:33 |
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Mechafunkzilla posted:rear end size can be substituted for wingspan when it comes to big man prowess, as well. I almost went into this but the line between strategically fat rear end for getting post and box out position and fat piece of poo poo with terrible conditioning is so thin and hard to define I just gave up. I mean, Shaq was both from about 97-2005, then just the fat piece of poo poo for the last couple years there with the possible exception of his time in Phoenix. Kevin Love was both, now maybe he's neither? Then, of course, there's Sean May...
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:39 |
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DeimosRising posted:I almost went into this but the line between strategically fat rear end for getting post and box out position and fat piece of poo poo with terrible conditioning is so thin and hard to define I just gave up. I mean, Shaq was both from about 97-2005, then just the fat piece of poo poo for the last couple years there with the possible exception of his time in Phoenix. Kevin Love was both, now maybe he's neither? Then, of course, there's Sean May... Oscar Robertson was the epitome of huge rear end -> rebounds and inside game, except he didn't play PF/C Also forgot to mention DeJuan Blair, he qualifies for sure. And Wes Unseld had an rear end of legend. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 16:44 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:42 |
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Not a basketball question, but: Nachos, who is that in your avatar?
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:55 |
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peepoogenderparts posted:Not a basketball question, but: That's Brian Windhorst, an ESPN basketball writer who covers the Heat (used to cover the Cavs) and gargler of King James' royal balls (like Nachos, you see)
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 16:59 |
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Ah, thank you.  I actually DO have some questions (one is actually even about the Miami Heat) First, was there ever an SA thread about The Decision? I saw the thread in SAS right after the Mavs won the championship, but for the life of me, I can't find anything regarding The Decision. I'm SURE there has to be something somewhere about it. Or did it just get lumped into a thread about last year's free agency? And two: What is this Amnesty Clause all about? Today was the first time I'd ever heard of it. peepoogenderparts fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 17:03 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 17:00 |
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Here's another newbie thing, don't ever trust anything you read about body fat percentagesquote:Just a month into the workouts, Wade already saw tremendous results. He felt he regained the strength he had entering the 2008 Olympics, going from 228 to 231 pounds, and his body fat went down from 4.8 to 3.5 percent, meaning that he gained additional lean muscle for better power and acceleration. 
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 17:44 |
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Good notes on combo guards. I changed the HoF example because Oscar was the only one that I could think of. Can't believe I forgot the Logo himself.  And yeah, all measurements are generally inaccurate. Most of it has to do with the way coaches see positions, as well as a measure of ego. I've met AI, and he sure as poo poo wasn't 6'0. I'm about 5'10 and he was shorter than me, so. Traditionally, some players will lie and say that they're shorter than they are, either because of self-consciousness (Bill Walton) or because if you're at 7'0 or taller, you're going to be branded as a center for the rest of your career (Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan). Other players will have their measurements fudged so that they look more like legitimate centers (Wes Unseld was listed at 6'7 but was closer to 6'4, Hakeem being listed at 7'0 but actually being 6'9, the aforementioned Dwight Howard example). It doesn't affect how they play, but it looks bad on your informative pamphlet if your center is shorter than your small forward. (Also worth noting: Shaq is actually about 7'3 instead of 7'1 and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is 7'4 or 7'5. No, I don't know why no one ever bothered to fix these measurements, as it only makes them even more 'larger than life'.) Adrian Dantley also has an rear end worthy of discussion, as it afforded him a post game at 6'2 with weird legs.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:05 |
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Declan MacManus posted:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is 7'4 or 7'5. Really? Because Walton is about as tall as him.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:10 |
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Declan MacManus posted:Good notes on combo guards. I changed the HoF example because Oscar was the only one that I could think of. Can't believe I forgot the Logo himself. It is also a testament to the greatness of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant that they have/had such great post games despite their deficient posteriors.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:10 |
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cisneros posted:Really? Because Walton is about as tall as him. Bill Walton mentioned in one of his biographies that he was self-conscious about being labeled as a '7-footer' for his career (don't know why, all the loving pot I guess). He's actually about 7'3 himself.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:14 |
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Also read these if you want to learn about the shotty hoops http://www.amazon.com/FreeDarko-Pre...23713735&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/FreeDarko-Pre...23713735&sr=8-2 Can't recommend them enough, just bought another copy for my uncle for christmas. e: it probably seems narrow minded to suggest only one author but these two books cover a lot and honestly no sports writing outside of editorials, blogs, tweets ever interested me until these two books.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:18 |
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In Minnesota they used to joke about listing Garnett at 6'13".
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:27 |
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streetlamp posted:Also read these if you want to learn about the shotty hoops Other good books: The Breaks of the Game by David Halberstam (Talks about the Trail Blazers in the late 70's while also exploring how a basketball team works) Loose Balls by Terry Pluto (A great book about the ABA) The Jordan Rules by Sam Smith (About Jordan in the 90's. Could also be called "The Jordan rear end in a top hat Chronicles, Volume I") When Nothing Else Matters by Michael Leary (About Jordan coming back from retirement, which is both baffling and sad. Could also be called "The Jordan rear end in a top hat Chronicles, Volume II") The Art of a Beautiful Game by Chris Ballard (Can't recommend this one enough. It's a short read but fantastic and covers a bunch of different topics.) A Season on the Brink by John Feinstein (This is about college basketball but still great) When the Game Was Ours by Larry Bird and Magic Johnson (If you want to know about the NBA's biggest rivalry of the 80's, this is a good start) And if you ignore the editorializing and the stupid as gently caress 'pyramid' where he ranks the best players in NBA history, The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons is a useful tool to become familiar with the NBA over the course of its entire history. Also gives props to Terry Porter, which is a mark in its favor. Declan MacManus fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 18:30 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:27 |
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Declan MacManus posted:(Also worth noting: Shaq is actually about 7'3 instead of 7'1 and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is 7'4 or 7'5. No, I don't know why no one ever bothered to fix these measurements, as it only makes them even more 'larger than life'.) There's no good way to be sure of any of this but judging by comparison to Yao (who is, shockingly, legitimately 7'6") and Howard Shaq is probably about 7'2". Walton and Jabbar are both pretty clearly about an inch taller than Shaq.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:29 |
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Declan MacManus posted:Other good books: Get that one. Best basketball book you will ever read
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:31 |
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So was Magic Johnson actually a 6'9" point guard or was he shorter than that? And could he really play all 5 positions or did someone tell me that just because he played center in that one NBA Finals (1980 I think?)? I tend to be more interested in defense in the sports I watch, who are the really good defenders at each position that I should look out for? How can I tell what great individual/team defense looks like? I hear announcers say a team is playing great defense at the moment but it usually looks the same as a normal defense to me. I understand that basketball has had some new statistics developed recently like the sabermetric (hate that word) stats in baseball. Can someone give me a quick rundown of what the new good stats are, what they measure and maybe also what they don't measure/what their limitations are? e: Thanks for the great replies! DrGonzo90 fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 19:29 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:44 |
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DrGonzo90 posted:So was Magic Johnson actually a 6'9" point guard or was he shorter than that? And could he really play all 5 positions or did someone tell me that just because he played center in that one NBA Finals (1980 I think?)? He might have been like 6'8" or 6'7" instead but as noted, most players list themselves as taller than they are, so whatever. He was still freakishly large for a PG. I don't know that he ever played center outside of that one time, but the Lakers did use him as a forward fairly regularly later in his career, and when he very briefly came back in the mid-90s he played PF exclusively (he had bulked way up through a combination of age and HIV medication) and actually played quite well all things considered. DrGonzo90 posted:I tend to be more interested in defense in the sports I watch, who are the really good defenders at each position that I should look out for? PG: Rondo, Deron Williams I guess (there really aren't many good defensive point guards) SG/SF: LeBron, Tony Allen, Shane Battier, Igoudala PF: Garnett, Duncan, Josh Smith C: Howard (best defensive player in the league by far), Joakim Noah, Chuck Hayes MourningView fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 18:56 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:47 |
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DeimosRising posted:There's no good way to be sure of any of this but judging by comparison to Yao (who is, shockingly, legitimately 7'6") and Howard Shaq is probably about 7'2". Walton and Jabbar are both pretty clearly about an inch taller than Shaq. Thabeet looked way smaller than Yao so he probably was 6-10 or something and conned the Grizzlies into a first round contract. edit: He's literally that guy from that Kevin Bacon movie who played on 8 foot rims. cisneros fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 19:11 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 18:59 |
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MorningView posted:He might have been like 6'8" or 6'7" instead but as noted, most players list themselves as taller than they are, so whatever. He was still freakishly large for a PG. I don't know that he ever played center outside of that one time, but the Lakers did use him as a forward fairly regularly later in his career, and when he very briefly came back in the mid-90s he played PF exclusively (he had bulked way up through a combination of age and HIV medication) and actually played quite well all things considered. I'm sad his PF comeback didn't last longer. He was averaging something like 15/6/7 as a 4, which is pretty good for a 36 year old who's playing out of position. That whole comeback is very  though, because in his words, "I got to go out on my terms."As far as new stats go, all of them have limitations. The main thing is to ignore (or quantify) counting stats when determining a basketball player's worth, and to focus more on rate stats. Here's a handy glossary: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html If you ever want to look something up about an individual player, go to Basketball-Reference.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 19:08 |
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DrGonzo90 posted:So was Magic Johnson actually a 6'9" point guard or was he shorter than that? And could he really play all 5 positions or did someone tell me that just because he played center in that one NBA Finals (1980 I think?)? Magic Johnson had the skills and arguably size to play 4 positions, I don't think you'd want him as your shooting guard or permanent center. He really was a big guy. He had an ugly jump shot but his post and inside game was tops. He also played power forward when he had that stint in 1996. Defensively, he was probably a little overrated and didn't often guard his own position or the other team's best players, but he was a solid help defender and rebounded well which goes a long way. Great team defense basically means you're not allowing points in the paint or uncontested jump shots. Great individual defenders will deny dribble penetration by moving their feet, try to deny their man the ball by cutting off passing lanes, be verbal with their teammates about when picks and screens are being set and if people need to switch, and also do things like being able to play help defense without losing track of their man and go over rather than under screens. Boxing out to prevent offensive boards is a big part of good defense. Steals and blocks (especially steals) may or may not mean someone is playing good defense, they're not always a good indication. But if someone has like 5 blocks they're probably had a really good defensive game, but a lot of guards who aren't great defenders get a lot of steals because they gamble the passing lanes, which winds up leaving a man open a lot of the time. Likewise, a big guy like Amar'e Stoudemire is a terrible defender and still averages 2 blocks a game because he's good at using his athleticism to get weakside blocks -- it doesn't mean he's consistently contesting shots and making presenting a serious obstacle in the game. On the flipside, Dennis Rodman was one of the greatest defensive players of all time and had very few steals or blocks, but was amazing at denying his man the ball, rebounds, and easy shots. As for great defenders, a good place to start would just be to check out players who have won the Defensive Player of the Year award, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_De..._the_Year_Award Dwight Howard has won the last three years but his defensive fundamentals aren't actually that spectacular, but they're good enough that combined with his timing and athleticism he is a defensive monster. For players with great defensive fundamentals, check out old guys like Jason Kidd, For younger guys who play good defense, I'd say try to watch: Guards - Russel Westbrook (OKC), Rajon Rondo (Boston) Wings - Lebron James (Miami), Andre Iguodala (Philly) Bigs - Joakim Noah (Chicago), Andrew Bogut (Milwaulkee) Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2011 around 19:17 |
| # ? Dec 12, 2011 19:09 |
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cisneros posted:Thabeet looked way smaller than Yao so he probably was 6-10 or something and conned the Grizzlies into a first round contract. Thabeet is weird. I got up close to him a couple of times at WVU-UConn games and he was huge, much bigger than anyone else on those two teams, but on the court he somehow managed to make Jeff Adrian seem bigger than him.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 19:13 |
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Speaking of defense, here is an old article from 2009 about Shane Battier. It's very long, but has some good insight on defense. Example: quote:“The absolute worst thing to do,” Battier says, “is to foul him.” It isn’t that Bryant is an especially good free-throw shooter but that, as Morey puts it, “the foul is the worst result of a defensive play.” One way the Rockets can see which teams think about the game as they do is by identifying those that “try dramatically not to foul.” The ideal outcome, from the Rockets’ statistical point of view, is for Bryant to dribble left and pull up for an 18-foot jump shot; force that to happen often enough and you have to be satisfied with your night. “If he has 40 points on 40 shots, I can live with that,” Battier says. “My job is not to keep him from scoring points but to make him as inefficient as possible.” The court doesn’t have little squares all over it to tell him what percentage Bryant is likely to shoot from any given spot, but it might as well.
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| # ? Dec 12, 2011 19:15 |
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DeimosRising posted:Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, who have basically come to be the definition of shooting guards, are listed at 6'6", which is therefore regarded as the archetypal size for that position but they are are both closer to 6'4". is this true, that mike and kobe are actually probably 6'4?
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 00:30 |
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With shoes, Jordan's measurements were accurate
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 00:51 |
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Jordan was a big dude. Kobe's a tiny bit taller than him, I think, with longer arms. Around 6'6" sounds right.
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 00:57 |
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jordan is thicker and physically stronger than kobe has ever been. kobe has always been rather skinny, but especially is in respect to jordan's frame.
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:06 |
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Twat McTwatterson posted:jordan is thicker and physically stronger than kobe has ever been. kobe has always been rather skinny, but especially is in respect to jordan's frame. Jordan also had those hands. Those hands.
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:07 |
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is it true that young kobe had better hops than mike?
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:29 |
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Twat McTwatterson posted:is it true that young kobe had better hops than mike? Unlikely. Jordan had a legitimate measured vertical of 48". Kobe was and is a much more aggressive dunker than Jordan, though.
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:32 |
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I am a casual NBA fan, I've never really committed to a team or anything like that. I always called myself a Clippers fan because they were the closest team to me that wasn't the Lakers, because gently caress the Lakers. Anyways, I'm a pretty big college basketball fan. After last year, my favorite college player from my school, Kawhi Leonard, was drafted and traded to the Spurs, so I'm going to try and follow them this year. I have a few questions, and they might be a little specific: 1.) What kind of offense/defense do the Spurs run? 2.) Do they have a good coach? 3.) How is Leonard seen as an NBA prospect?
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:33 |
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SteelAngel2000 posted:1.) What kind of offense/defense do the Spurs run? 1) Currently a run-and-gun aggressive shooting team, but they were formally known for feeding the ball to the post to Tim Duncan, one of the best players in the NBA. They switched mostly because Duncan is near in his 40's. 2) One of the best coaches in the Leagues. 3) A very good rebounder, may be slightly increased in value since he was taken by the Spurs (who can do no wrong!!!)
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:42 |
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I am a casual NBA fan, I've never really committed to a team or anything like that. I always called myself a Clippers fan because they were the closest team to me that wasn't the Lakers, because gently caress the Lakers. 1.) They were always a slow deliberate halfcourt team but last year, God I hope I recall this correctly, they went a little more up tempo. Duncan and Ginobili are slowly declining and Parker fucks his teammates wives. 2.) Popovich is pretty loving good. Not Phil Jackson good but really loving good. 3.) No idea. If the Spurs have him he probably has alot of potential. Edit; Oh gently caress you Tae
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:42 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 18:21 |
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I am a casual NBA fan, I've never really committed to a team or anything like that. I always called myself a Clippers fan because they were the closest team to me that wasn't the Lakers, because gently caress the Lakers. 1. The Spurs recently transitioned from years of being a slow, half-court offense to being an uptempo, small-ball type lineup, based on crashing the boards, fast breaks, and lots of threes. However, they still have a decent inside presence with Tim Duncan and DeJuan Blair. Defensively, they primarily operate out of a 1-3-1 zone, because Duncan can still defend the post, but there's lots of help defense and switching. The Spurs have taken cues from the Celtics in that respect, but the key strength of the Spurs is their perimeter D. 2. The best.  3. I'm very high on him, but the major question is whether or not he can transition to playing SF in the NBA. He's only 6'7, so despite his great wingspan, he'll be mismatched against power forwards in the NBA. Defensively, he'll contribute immensely, but he's still raw offensively, and his athleticism alone won't be enough to score in the NBA. E: Tae!  I thought you'd be in the GDT so I could take my time!
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| # ? Dec 13, 2011 01:47 |
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