|
pik_d posted:Is anyone able to get this video on Watson's blog to play? I can't, I'm not sure if it's just not working right now or if it's because I'm in America. Yeah, it's definitely because you're a dirty, dirty American. It wouldn't load for me until I used this thread's favorite program.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 10:28 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2013 09:00 |
|
|
Do we really even need to think that Addler was in ~love~ with Holmes? All we really needed it seems is that she had some sentimental feelings regarding him and was not just being coldly manipulative like she was making out. Holmes concluded that he got within her comfort zone enough that she would set her password to be one final 'lol' when she's got away with her money, which is something, what with her being a professional sex worker and all. I'd imagine that if Holmes was gay, Watson in the same role would have shown the same elevated pulse and stuff, and who knows what he sets all his passwords to? Fangz fucked around with this message at Jan 2, 2012 around 10:48 |
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 10:39 |
|
|
I think the real point about Irene's attraction to Holmes is that she can't have him. She's a woman who's used to sleeping with and using powerful men and woman. They even pay her for the privilege. But here's a man who's unique. He's interested in her because she's smart and provides puzzles for him to solve. I don't know what to make of the ending. My first thought was it had to be imagination, but as someone pointed out this show doesn't do that. And that line Mycroft said Sherlock being the only one who could fool him which is kinda out of character for him to admit to even in that kind of context really sticks out, so it was probably set up for him having actually rescued her. Which suggests maybe in the end, she did get what she wanted one way or another.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 10:59 |
|
|
It might just be that it's been a long day, but that felt like the best piece of TV that has been made this year and I'm suddenly realising that that's a really bad way to express how amazing this show was. The tension between them was incredible, electric! (Although I must say, I did briefly hope for a crossover with a certain other famous british license - sort of an LXG type thing...)
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 11:19 |
|
|
Oh I guess the other explanation for the lesbians thing is that Adler was lying to Watson about being gay because as far as she's concerned, Watson could be gay. In which case Watson seeing her as competition for Holmes would be an unnecessary complication for her plan, which gives her a reason to lie.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 11:46 |
|
|
She did say smart was the new sexy about a million times.... maybe she meant it.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 12:18 |
|
|
God drat this series is fantastic.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 12:27 |
|
|
As for the confusing timeline of the episode, we know that from the beginning to Sherlock and Irene Adler in Mycroft's office is 6 months. Although from there until the end of the episode is a little vague as the only reference is that its no longer winter and (not)Adler's body was found two months ago.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 12:47 |
|
|
I just read it as "I can be gay sometimes, and there's nothing wrong with that." OR you can take it that she is a lesbian, doesn't mind the company of men, but has never fallen for one until now. There is such a thing as 'I'm only gay for one person' (and boy do I know it), and the opposite is true, ie straight for one person. I really hate the "oh so what you're saying is a lesbian needs to find the right dick to be straight" attitude that arises when something like this happens. Human sexuality is incredibly fluid and shifts back and forth along the spectrum.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 12:49 |
|
|
Anyone else resigned to Adler coming back in The Reichenbach Fall for a completely unnecessary and tacked-on romantic interest? James Bond I'm looking at you 
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 13:43 |
|
|
I really enjoyed the Moriarty raspberry scene. At first you think it's to Sherlock, but it's to his, currently, more serious opponent, Mycroft. Add to that the composition of the shot and he is both literally and figuratively blowing a raspberry at the British government. The whole episode was sublime television
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 14:25 |
|
|
I too found this episode to be fantastic TV, particularly the chemistry between Holmes, Watson, Mrs Hudson and Mycroft. The only thing I would really like different, is 6 x 45 minute episodes instead of 3 x 90 minutes. The only correct length for a series is 6 episodes.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 14:59 |
|
|
Fire_Monkey posted:The only correct length for a series is 6 episodes. Doctor Who would like to have a word with you.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 15:28 |
|
|
So wait a minute, what was the story again? What an absolute mess. I thought Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be a private detective, not an SIS asset.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 15:32 |
|
|
This was a really great piece of television. I interpreted Adler's "I'm gay" scene as that she's feeling an asexual attraction to Holmes. She's fascinated by him. That's the same as Watson - he isn't gay, but in almost that same scene he chooses Holmes over a girlfriend. Adler isn't a "lesbian who stopped being one for Holmes" anymore than Watson is "straight who stopped being one". Watson's initial attraction to Holmes was mainly in that Watson was an adrenaline junkie, and Holmes fed the habit. Similarly, Adler is a power/game/manipulation junkie, and playing with Holmes feeds - that - habit. If Holmes was readily available, she would have treated him probably with the same scorn he treated Molly. The final password was just painful, though.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 15:35 |
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:So wait a minute, what was the story again? What an absolute mess. I thought Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be a private detective, not an SIS asset. Mycroft Holmes (Sherlock's brother) is in the UK government and sometimes gets his little brother to run around and solve things when Mycroft can't be arsed (all the time).
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 15:36 |
|
|
Watching this again and I really feel bad for Molly. She's a nice, attractive girl who happens to be crazy about Sherlock Holmes, the worst possible person to have a crush on. I laughed pretty hard at Sherlock's assholery the first time, but this time around I just felt bummed out for poor Molly Hooper. Especially since she even went to the morgue for Sherlock to identify Irene Adler's body immediately after the party. meristem posted:The final password was just painful, though. I'll admit, I kind of winced at "SHERLOCKED". Trin Tragula posted:So wait a minute, what was the story again? What an absolute mess. I thought Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be a private detective, not an SIS asset. Sherlock also solved the case of the Missile Defense Plans for Mycroft/the government in the series one finale. If the Devil himself showed up and asked Sherlock to figure out how someone was murdered in a windowless room that was locked from the inside, he'd jump all over it. Sherlock doesn't care where the case comes from; as long as it's interesting, he'll take it.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 15:45 |
|
|
That was goddamned excellent, and goes some way towards redeeming Moffat for that awful last season of Doctor Who. Very tightly-plotted with tons of great twists, and I love the use of depth of field. Occasionally it felt like it was trying a little too hard to be funny, but there were far more actually funny moments (Sherlock's way of calling the police being possibly my favourite). Being Moffat, I was fully prepared for a good amount of misogyny, but I actually felt that unless you want to get into stuff like "MOLLY IS ONLY CHARACTERISED BY HER ATTRACTION TO SHERLOCK" and whatever it was actually perfectly fine. The "lesbian who just needs a good man" way of thinking doesn't hold up at all. The passcode thing was very...Moffat-y, for lack of a better word, so far as him thinking "oh man this idea/wordplay is SO SUPER COOL" and writing the whole section around it, but it was decent enough that it didn't bother me too much. The only twist I wasn't on board for was the very final one, but I like the imagination concept - there had been a fever dream earlier in the episode. It's probably not that though.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 16:16 |
|
|
Bown posted:Being Moffat, I was fully prepared for a good amount of misogyny, but I actually felt that unless you want to get into stuff like "MOLLY IS ONLY CHARACTERISED BY HER ATTRACTION TO SHERLOCK" and whatever it was actually perfectly fine. You don't see a problem with Moffat turning Adler from the opera singer she was in the original story into a sex worker whose entire character was defined by her sexuality and every single connection she could call on was formed by loving a guy?
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 16:21 |
|
|
Noxville posted:You don't see a problem with Moffat turning Adler from the opera singer she was in the original story into a sex worker whose entire character was defined by her sexuality and every single connection she could call on was formed by loving a guy? She really wasnt just an opera singer though. She was a quite clever conwoman. Plus, I dont know how else you translate "strange intimate picture with a noble person" in a dramatic, modern context other than sex worker. I mean, Moffat writes iffy stuff about ladies sometimes, but that is reaching.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 16:48 |
|
|
Huh. That's an interesting question for me, mostly because I don't. I just don't see how her character is only defined by her sexuality - for me, like I posted above, her character is mostly abou power/games/manipulation. Being a dominatrix is just a convenient way to turn this into money. Also, I'm not sure if anyone had the same reaction: Adler reminds me a lot of the dominatrix Lady Heather from CSI: Las Vegas, who for some time was also a not-really-love interest for the hyperrational male lead (Grissom). And the first Lady Heather episode was extremely memorable, in the good way.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 16:48 |
|
|
After watching Sherlock i am beginning to the think that Moffet is really suffering from writer's fatigue and that is why Dr Who has suffered. Perhaps Dr Who should be 6 episodes as well. The last season really lagged and i think it was just too long and too much for him.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 16:54 |
|
|
God drat this show is good. So far it's been totally worth the long-rear end wait. Bring on next sunday!
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 16:58 |
|
|
Does Adler have sex with Holmes? No. Is Holmes sexually attracted to Adler? No. Is Adler sexually attracted to Holmes? Not especially. The only significance of the sex worker background is (a) to suggest her ability at emotional distancing and manipulation and (b) to explain the photos, which actually at the end of the day served as nothing more than a convenient excuse for Mycroft to rope Sherlock into investigating without blowing the true secret. The idea that her whole character is defined by her sexuality doesn't stand up to any inspection. Adler's depiction can only be a problem if you think having a largely positive depiction of a sex worker is inherently a bad thing.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 17:07 |
|
|
Fangz posted:The idea that her whole character is defined by her sexuality doesn't stand up to any inspection. She mentions a half dozen times that she has information from a guy because 'she knows what he likes'. Every part of her backstory we learn is in relation to her having sex with someone. The combination to her safe is her vital statistics that she impart to Holmes by taking her clothes off.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 17:09 |
|
|
Actually I think the exchange between Watson and Adler regarding their sexualities was to point out how they both devote significant portions of their lives and emotions to someone neither of them should be interested in sexually/emotionally. I may be reading too much into it though.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 17:30 |
|
|
Noxville posted:She mentions a half dozen times that she has information from a guy because 'she knows what he likes'. Every part of her backstory we learn is in relation to her having sex with someone. The combination to her safe is her vital statistics that she impart to Holmes by taking her clothes off. She knows what they like but that doesnt mean she slept with them. Maybe she always targeted people with kinky fetishes she could exploit. It can be many things other than sleeping with them. And yeah, she took her clothes off thinking it would either rattle Holmes OR show him they are like-minded (the first pictures she gets of him are a naked guy wearing a sheet in public!). If sexuality was all she was about, why are they intrigued by each other over a murder mystery?
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 17:44 |
|
|
Astro Cake posted:For those of you not living in the UK, like myself, Expat Shield along with the BBC One online streaming website will allow you to watch the episodes unhindered. I'm currently using it to watch BBC news. It works like a charm. http://bbc-player.com/
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 17:50 |
|
|
Was there anything to be made of the 1895 hit counter, or is that just assumed to be a red herring at this point? During the year 1895 Sherlock was "dead" after "The Final Problem" but before "The Hound of the Baskervilles" which is the next episode. I'm guessing that's a coincidence but who knows?
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 17:54 |
|
|
Locutus of Bald posted:Sherlock also solved the case of the Missile Defense Plans for Mycroft/the government in the series one finale. If the Devil himself showed up and asked Sherlock to figure out how someone was murdered in a windowless room that was locked from the inside, he'd jump all over it. Sherlock doesn't care where the case comes from; as long as it's interesting, he'll take it. I get that; it's just that IIRC three of the four stories shown thus far (The Blind Banker being the exception) have involved Mycroft and the government. The thing with "Sherlock doesn't care where the case comes from" is that we haven't actually seen that on screen. We know that because it's in the books, but on screen so far it seems like all he gets involved with is stuff where Mycroft has some sort of interest, and in the last two cases he's been directly put onto them by Mycroft. Hopefully the next one will do something different; if they make a bollocks of Baskerville then there's no hope. Oh, and I still have absolutely no idea why John's still hanging around with him, but I'm hoping they'll retain some of the great stuff Watson got to do by himself in the original and maybe Sherlock will show some appreciation without immediately zinging him afterwards.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:01 |
|
|
pik_d posted:Was there anything to be made of the 1895 hit counter, or is that just assumed to be a red herring at this point? During the year 1895 Sherlock was "dead" after "The Final Problem" but before "The Hound of the Baskervilles" which is the next episode. I'm guessing that's a coincidence but who knows? It's either a reference or it's Moriarty playing games.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:12 |
|
|
Noxville posted:You don't see a problem with Moffat turning Adler from the opera singer she was in the original story into a sex worker whose entire character was defined by her sexuality and every single connection she could call on was formed by loving a guy? So like, did you not actually read the story because it was kinda a major deal that Adler was a manipulative flim-flam artist who knew how to exploit weaknesses and failings, and was not in fact an opera singer? She, just like in the book, has no real connection and affection for her 'job', it's just a way for her to get close to her marks and get them to let their guards down. Holmes is different because he's the only man she goes against who doesn't think with his dick around her, so she has to go into over-drive to 'get' him in her mind.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:13 |
|
|
Glitterbomber posted:So like, did you not actually read the story because it was kinda a major deal that Adler was a manipulative flim-flam artist who knew how to exploit weaknesses and failings, and was not in fact an opera singer? She, just like in the book, has no real connection and affection for her 'job', it's just a way for her to get close to her marks and get them to let their guards down. Yes, she's a con artist. But not an actual literal prostitute.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:16 |
|
|
Noxville posted:Yes, she's a con artist. But not an actual literal prostitute. If you seriously want to get into this as a thing, calling a dominatrix a prostitute is a bit demeaning actually! Yes when translating a a story from 1800's to 2000's the con artist who focused on weaknesses and failings of the upper class was changed from a not-singer to a not-dominatrix. That's not that crazy of a leap to make considering the character type and the entire point of the story!
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:19 |
|
|
Glitterbomber posted:If you seriously want to get into this as a thing, calling a dominatrix a prostitute is a bit demeaning actually! That's true enough. I don't really care enough to continue arguing about it, ivenever been particularly fond of that story and I never get why people get so overly fixated over a character than appears in one story and is never mentioned again (this also applies to Moriarty).
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:29 |
|
|
Noxville posted:That's true enough. Because they actually have an impact on Sherlock Holmes and thats more interesting than him coldly dismissing/besting immediately anyone he comes up against.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:31 |
|
|
Noxville posted:That's true enough. Because those two characters shook Sherlock to his core in very real ways by stripping away his ability to hide himself behind being the smartest man in the room. They get overused by dumb fans of course but in the sense of telling the Holmes story they are both critical to be done exactly right.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:41 |
|
|
kazmeyer posted:God drat this series is fantastic. Definitely a case of "quality, not quantity". While I wish that there were more episodes, I treasure the ones presented.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:47 |
|
|
The counter on the website is prob stuck at that number so when we go to the website it doesn't count our visits and when they reference it on the show it can stay at its current number.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:48 |
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2013 09:00 |
|
|
Guy Fleegman posted:Definitely a case of "quality, not quantity". While I wish that there were more episodes, I treasure the ones presented. Yea I find myself going 'oh man I wish they'd do more' then realize 'wait no, more means more chances of taking this to poo poo' so I'd rather have this handful of excellent programs.
|
| # ? Jan 2, 2012 18:49 |
|
