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Big Sean
Jan 17, 2010


Mugaaz posted:

I just want more randomization in this game. Most people want shorter levels (which I also agree with), but they want shorter levels because everything is so similar everytime you play. You always fight the same kind of enemies, in the same kind of map, in the each specific area. There is nothing to mix that up.

Shorter areas get you to a different thing youve already done before faster, but I'd like a lot more truly random elements to the level design. Vaults were a great example of this, but unfortunately, its usually incorrect to ever open them (which really sucks).

I want to see more randomly generated bosses appear on random floors of dungeons. This would be a big step up for making each floor potentially exciting. Hopefully random bosses won't have broken skills though =).

I want to see the ratio of randarts to named arts changed to favor randarts. I don't want to pick up the same pool of items off the early bosses everytime.

I'd like to see some "special events" that happen randomly. When entering a floor you may get a double gold event where guys drop double gold, or winter map where all the enemies are cold based, random quests, I don't know, anything!


The way it is now, I play to try out new builds, but I usually loathe the initial t1/t2 dungeons. I feel like the addition of more randomness could really spice up old areas. I know random events, bosses, and the like can lead to negatives, where unlucky events can kill players in ways that are hard to take precautions for. However, I feel like it does way more good than harm, especially since most people really don't care if they die to something new.

I play(ed) roguelike and opened almost all vaults unless I was level <5 or in High Peak. The one vault I don't do is the checkerboard of little 4X4 rooms that sometimes spawns in dreadfel (possibly elsewhere). There are a few other vault types that have skeleton master archers and are probably to be skipped for some characters, but other than that.

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Mugaaz
Mar 1, 2008


Protocol 5 posted:

I think there's a lot of variety in enemy types, the main problem is that enemies in a particular area tend to be too samey, which combined with the dungeon length tends to exacerbate that. Long dungeons would be more fun if there was a more clearly defined progression of enemy types and tactics from floor to floor. There is a bit of this already, but it could certainly stand to have more. Dreadfell is a good example in that you've already seen everything you're going to see there in terms of enemy types by the fourth floor, but you still have 5 more to go.

How does this address me doing Dreadfell on my 15th character? I mean if Dreadfell was 5 levels instead of 4, sure it's shorter. That doesn't make me look forward to it. True, I would completely DREAD dreadfell if it was say 25 floors, but that's because long dungeons bring problems to light quicker. Shortening dungeons runs from the issue the real issue, a lot of the content is incredibly boring.

This game has incredible gameplay, this is why people keep playing. If this was your standard bump to attack game people would stop playing SUPER FAST because the content gets old very fast. People put up with the content because the gameplay is so good. I got bored of Orc prides on the 4th floor of my first pride on my first time into the East!

Example of what I want:

I waltz into the 3rd floor of X Pride. Instead of the standard mob layout in the initial room, this time there are 2 random bosses, and I triggered the "True Darkness" event where everyone's vision on the map is limited to 2 squares away. I manage to fight the bosses 1 on 1, because the limited vision allowed me to fight one while out of vision with the other. I get a sweet randart from each boss, one is even useful for my build! I manage to clear the floor.

I enter the 4th floor and trigger the "Hot Feet" event, which causes squares to turn into fire 5 turns after you step on them and continue to burn for 100 turns. While carefully maneuvering through the floor I open one of the houses and find a Dwarf fighting an Elf where both of them beg me for help each offering a different type of reward. I manage to kill the dwarf by teleporting him into the area I was just walking, causing him to burn to death while trying to walk back into the house.

Etc...

Random stuff like this would give this game infinite replayability.

Remember the first time you did the sandworm lair, how interesting and novel the mechanics were? Now jump to how much you dread redoing that for your 15th character. These events and random bosses don't have to be that often to have a big payoff. They would recreate the experience you got the first time in the Sandowrm lair.

Mugaaz
Mar 1, 2008


Big Sean posted:

I play(ed) roguelike and opened almost all vaults unless I was level <5 or in High Peak. The one vault I don't do is the checkerboard of little 4X4 rooms that sometimes spawns in dreadfel (possibly elsewhere). There are a few other vault types that have skeleton master archers and are probably to be skipped for some characters, but other than that.

Some builds can easily handle most vaults and adventurer parties, others find it very difficult. That's not the issue really is it? I was commenting that the difficulty of vaults aren't justified against the reward. So it's usually wrong to attempt doing them unless your one of the builds who can handle most of them easily.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


A general suggestion for OOD/supertough/dangerous enemies - the game should put a --STOP-- warning that requires a keypress to remove when such an enemy comes into view.

I realize it's a gamey solution, but this game is a) long and b) has shitloads of total fodder enemies. The game needs to say 'hey, watch out', the same way it warns you before entering a vault room or whatever.

Mental fatigue tends to get you killed in any roguelike, but there's no reason the game can't accomodate for that. You can still get killed by such an enemy if you gently caress up handling the situation, but at least you won't get killed to pushing up twice.

Having the game stop you from movement-mashing or continuing to fight peons while a mage or archer winds up to annihilate you would go a long way towards removing some of the bullshit instadeaths later in the game.

I think its bad design in the first place to have enemies that can kill you that quickly, but regardless, some sort of warning system would help at least.

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


For anyone interested in contributing some ideas I've started a thread on the Tome forums here. This is basically a brain storming thread on what the game needs rather then a specific ideas thread but once some brain storming is done we can move on to specifics.

There's also several threads in the ideas forums for artifacts, vaults, etc. if any of you would like to contribute. Templates should be easy to find if you look through the stickies.

The forum does require moderator approval to post but this is an anti-spam measure only and the community is welcoming of new ideas.

e: And as a general rule the Tome forums are a better place to post comments on how the game could improve then here. I pass a long a lot of stuff I read in this thread but I simply don't have the time or the inclination to pass along everything.

oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at Jan 25, 2012 around 05:27

Protocol 5
Sep 23, 2004

God created Fenway to train the faithful.


Random gimmick events sound like that would be an irritating pain in the rear end that could gently caress you over without recourse, a notably bad thing. For example, the darkness thing would gently caress over anyone at all that uses ranged attacks, and rather than providing a challenge, would simply negate several entire classes' abilities.

Dreadfell gets boring because you're doing 9 levels of mostly the same enemies. The Orc Prides get boring because it's just a shitload of orcs with various abilities in various combinations. Having a theme is fine, I just think they could stand to have more variation within that theme.

UselessLurker
Apr 28, 2008


Playing a Paradox Mage on anything other than Exploration Mode would give me a goddamn anuerysm. As it is, dying because a misfired spell summoned the entire map onto myself is merely hilarious.

e: seriously though, if you want random gimmick events play a Paradox Mage. Sometimes casting spells does what you want it to do. Sometimes your spells backfire and you instantly die. Sometimes you get a bunch of friendly level 3 gardeners summoned right next to you. And then, of course, sometimes your spells just summon elite enemies who give you another variety of dying instantly.

UselessLurker fucked around with this message at Jan 25, 2012 around 05:31

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


oneliquidninja posted:

e: And as a general rule the Tome forums are a better place to post comments on how the game could improve then here. I pass a long a lot of stuff I read in this thread but I simply don't have the time or the inclination to pass along everything.

If I might ask, is there some reason other Tome devs aren't reading this thread? There's been tons of feedback, not just in terms of 'hey add this or tinker with that' but also lots of general tone stuff (ie, its too long, cheap instadeaths, classes are fun, etcetc)

Some addicts will probably register and post over there, but plenty of goons will continue to post here, seems silly to miss out on a lot of direct input from new players experiences.

Mugaaz
Mar 1, 2008


Protocol 5 posted:

Random gimmick events sound like that would be an irritating pain in the rear end that could gently caress you over without recourse, a notably bad thing. For example, the darkness thing would gently caress over anyone at all that uses ranged attacks, and rather than providing a challenge, would simply negate several entire classes' abilities.

Dreadfell gets boring because you're doing 9 levels of mostly the same enemies. The Orc Prides get boring because it's just a shitload of orcs with various abilities in various combinations. Having a theme is fine, I just think they could stand to have more variation within that theme.

I came up with these in the span of 2 mins as a general example. I didn't think of ways they might break the game. Of course a lot more has to be taken into consideration for them to make sure they don't render some class dead on the spot. They SHOULD be a mild pain in the rear end that requires a real change in tactics, thats the whole point. If you don't need to adapt to them they are not changing the experience.

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


victrix posted:

If I might ask, is there some reason other Tome devs aren't reading this thread? There's been tons of feedback, not just in terms of 'hey add this or tinker with that' but also lots of general tone stuff (ie, its too long, cheap instadeaths, classes are fun, etcetc)

Some addicts will probably register and post over there, but plenty of goons will continue to post here, seems silly to miss out on a lot of direct input from new players experiences.

There's not a development team. There's a few contributors but ultimately it's one developer. He asks me about the general tone of this thread and he does care what you guys think but between coding, social life, and work I don't think he follows this thread as closely as I do.

All I was really trying to say is that if you guys have specific ideas they're more likely to get read by the developer if you post them directly on the Tome forums. I pass along what I can and I certainly pass along sentiments that are shared but specifics can get lost.

e: It's probably worth mentioning that the thread I linked was started in direct response to sentiments in this thread Victrix and I sent Darkgod an email last night (forgive me if I already said this) about decreasing the size of some zones. I am listening to the feedback here and passing it along as best I can but ultimately I don't have a say in the direction of the game. My opinion carries weight but the final decisions don't lie in my hands.

oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at Jan 25, 2012 around 06:00

German Joey
Dec 18, 2004


lol, YAVP here. Cornac Archmage, roguelike difficulty. Unfortunately and I'm not sure if it was because of having to go into debug mode to fix the broken quest in the east or because of the server difficulties, but my character was never saved to the server. But, at least it saved my achievement that I won!

http://www.te4.org/users/germanjoey

I was able to get those crazy-crit gauntlets and the lost staff of archmage taemlion's (or whatever that idiot's name is), and justified using them over my staff of warding by switching out some of my gear for some crappier stun-resist stuff and using Aegis a lot more often. This made a *huge* difference in my offensive output; I was able to turn on keen senses and end up with about a 70% crit rating, lots more mana, and mana-regen on crit. Was able to floor the prides pretty much. Later, I found some stuff with absolutely crazy resists. I had 18% resist all from the amulet of the moon, 8% resist all off a jade ring (later a 10% pearl ring!), 15% resist all from the girdle of preservation (although each resist is individual), 15% from thick skin, and a bunch of various stuff from my armour. I was practically 70% resist across the board. And, you know, this helped quite a lot with dealing with crazy spike damage lol. And it made me realize that one of the biggest problems with this game is that its just too sprawling. Not just in terms of the length, and the gigantic dungeons, as everyone else have mentioned. But you also have the fact that you have:

  • 12 different elemental damage types and corresponding resistances (unless im forgetting any, which is possible)
  • 6 different kinds of status immunities
  • 3 different types of status resistance
  • 10 different types of resources
  • 7 stats
  • armor, defense, ranged defense

There's just like, a ridiculous amount of defensive ground to cover. Compare that to Crawl or Nethack or even ADOM. Unless you luck out with some freak all-encompassing equipment like Puddy Dumplins up there had (and part of that was due to lucking into an alchemist escort quest in Trollmire and subsequently being able to afford 5 different merchant artifacts, of which I used 3) as well as crazy archmage shields, you're gonna have to focus on the two most vital of those, which are stun and confusion immunities, and everything else will end up being incidental. Its sorta like you still have the Angband resistance problem without being able to realistically cope with it in a great deal of cases.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, of course. Like so many people have said, the repetitiveness of the content, the length of the game, the immensity of the dungeons, the inconspicuousness with which potentially deadly enemies can present themselves after slogging through scores of similarly-spirited foes... I dunno. Seems symptomatic of the same kind of sprawlingness.

This game is soooo good, but at the same time is so badly in need of restructuring. I'd use the word "balancing" but it hardly seems adequate enough. Like just a few of the things I think are badly needed are: limiting the early game, cutting all dungeons in half at least or more in some cases, cutting all dungeon floor-sizes to a half to a third at least, removing status immunities, nerfing statuses (both for the player and for monsters) and reworking their relation to saves, consolidating damage types and resistances and resources, reducing spike damage potential (both for the player and for monsters), nerfing shields and heals, etc. Really drastic stuff in other words, not even getting into individual monsters/talents/dungeons... but of course that's just IMHO.

I dunno, maybe with the rate that Tome's been going, in a year from now it'll all be perfect!

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


oneliquidninja posted:

There's not a development team. There's a few contributors but ultimately it's one developer. He asks me about the general tone of this thread and he does care what you guys think but between coding, social life, and work I don't think he follows this thread as closely as I do.

All I was really trying to say is that if you guys have specific ideas they're more likely to get read by the developer if you post them directly on the Tome forums. I pass along what I can and I certainly pass along sentiments that are shared but specifics can get lost.

e: It's probably worth mentioning that the thread I linked was started in direct response to sentiments in this thread Victrix and I sent Darkgod an email last night (forgive me if I already said this) about decreasing the size of some zones. I am listening to the feedback here and passing it along as best I can but ultimately I don't have a say in the direction of the game. My opinion carries weight but the final decisions don't lie in my hands.

Hmm... thanks for that info.

I may register and post some thoughts, though I should say say that I've stopped playing the game due to the various issues raised in this thread - don't get me wrong, I think the game as a whole is a great framework, and with some tinkering, I think it could be really amazing (just look at the goon reception, this thread has been page one for weeks).

I read about his personal problems a few pages ago though, and that's both a huge bummer and a far higher priority than tome, so I dunno if now is the time to bombard him with suggestions for a free game

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


Well his living situation at least is sorted even if the whole situation isn't. The time he's been able to give to the game though since he got back to working on it has basically amounted to fixing the server and wrapping a few things up so b38 can be released. But he is back to working on ToME and I suspect the next beta will be released relatively soon.

After that I imagine he'll start looking at some of the feedback I've been passing him from this thread.

I guess I was just wanting to make it clearer that I don't have a final say in anything. There's some code changes I wrote that will be in b38 but Darkgod made the final decision on rather or not to include them. Some of those code changes were ideas I pulled from this thread. But I don't want you guys to feel like I'm the gatekeeper because I'm not.

German Joey
Dec 18, 2004


oneliquidninja posted:

Well his living situation at least is sorted even if the whole situation isn't. The time he's been able to give to the game though since he got back to working on it has basically amounted to fixing the server and wrapping a few things up so b38 can be released. But he is back to working on ToME and I suspect the next beta will be released relatively soon.

After that I imagine he'll start looking at some of the feedback I've been passing him from this thread.

I guess I was just wanting to make it clearer that I don't have a final say in anything. There's some code changes I wrote that will be in b38 but Darkgod made the final decision on rather or not to include them. Some of those code changes were ideas I pulled from this thread. But I don't want you guys to feel like I'm the gatekeeper because I'm not.

You shouldn't have to feel you have to "report" anything. I mean, this is a forum, we're just talking about what we think of the game! Its a really good game. I played it maybe a billion hours in the last month and donated some money (30 euros, whatever that is, I think?) Its just that, you know, with roguelike players - we like bitching about mechanics. Kinda comes with the territory. Its also worth keeping in that there are a lot of Crawl players here, which is very different from the Angband tradition that Darkgod comes from.

Indecisive
May 6, 2007



Just won for the first time myself . Skeleton archmage - after splatting a bunch of promising berserkers I decided to play something overpowered and try to get back into a more defensive playstyle. Did very well in the early game, 0 deaths until the mid-20's or so (Can't remember what got me anymore - probably the dark crypt). After that I guess I got sloppier and sloppier because I died a couple times in dreadfell and then a BUNCH in the east, and wound up using my 1-time skeleton ressurection ability in the middle of the 2nd pride. Really thought at that point that it was going to be game over soon, so to avoid getting killed to boredom I started skipping content, and somehow I managed to finish the rest; failed the event in the charred vale, chickened out of doing the alchemist quest because fuuuuuck that at 0 lives, and crawled on tippy toes through the final dungeon. I wasn't even 50 going through, I think I started at 43 and got to the final boss at 47, made it to 50 during the fight. Wasn't too hard although I was somewhat spoiled on what the fight involved by someone in the IRC who failed the fight earlier in the night.

Character here:
http://te4.org/characters/10627/tom...e8-0911b8f3b864

Overall I had *far* worse stats than German Joey's mage, as I had to devote a lot of my gear towards Stun/Freeze resist since skeletons can't use wild infusions. I also only had the cash to get 2 random artifacts, the gloves and boots. The gloves weren't even particularly good (just lots of crit) but I'd been wearing the same gloves I wore since like level 10, those flame ones that always drop in the newbie dungeons. Other than stun resist I focused on boosting fire damage and went heavy in the fire tree because Inferno is ridiculously powerful and I abused the poo poo out of that from 30-50. Skeleton racials were really nice, the free shield gives you backup protection when you need it most (when both rune shields are down) and can also be activated preemptively to overwrite a shield that's been knocked down to like 5 points left, instead of having to wait for something to take off half your health or more. The big downside of course is being unable to use wild infusions to cure status effects. It was definitely scary those times when I wasn't stun immune because Freeze is like the most deadly spell effect for a mage, and I basically felt I had to wear Wintertide Phial the whole game in case I had to cure confusion - I probably could have swapped it out but that 1 turn to change gear can be deadly also. However, despite not having a ton of damage resistances, I rarely encountered any of the 'ridiculous spike damage' that people often complain about in the late-game. The only death I really felt was bullshit was in Rak'shor pride I think, one of the random classed orc bosses used 'Beckon' on me which I believe forces you to walk towards the caster, so several turns passed rapidly as I walked forward with a pile of orcs beating on me and died. Thankfully though I didn't run into any real dangerous bosses in the final dungeon, each floor has 1 guarding the stairs but it felt like the orc groups at the stairs in the prides were much more dangerous, probably because you have to deal with 3 at a time.

Anyway, despite the pacing issues I still really like the game, now that I've won and seen most of the content I'll relax a bit and play some less powerful classes.

Indecisive fucked around with this message at Jan 25, 2012 around 09:25

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Does anyone no how to get a Doomed to work? They seem to have zero options for dealing decent damage and their crowd control also seems kind of mediocre. I can clear out a horde of snakes or trolls or whatever no problem, but the only character I'd have trouble with that on is Cursed so it's not particularly remarkable.

Vanilla Mint Ice
Jul 17, 2007

A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.


I don't think I can even get through the final fight

My spellpower is way too low for any of my critical spells to even work on the bosses and my infusions are too weak. I blame going from the last pride straight to high peak without going back to town to check out all the shops and buy the merchant artifacts. FYI so no one acts stupid like me, you can't recall out of high peak so make sure you're ready before you go in.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

I don't think I can even get through the final fight

My spellpower is way too low for any of my critical spells to even work on the bosses and my infusions are too weak. I blame going from the last pride straight to high peak without going back to town to check out all the shops and buy the merchant artifacts. FYI so no one acts stupid like me, you can't recall out of high peak so make sure you're ready before you go in.

The adds that spawn from the portals are aggressive to the sorcerers as well, just close 2-3 portals and run away until they are surronded by trash.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

I don't think I can even get through the final fight

My spellpower is way too low for any of my critical spells to even work on the bosses and my infusions are too weak. I blame going from the last pride straight to high peak without going back to town to check out all the shops and buy the merchant artifacts. FYI so no one acts stupid like me, you can't recall out of high peak so make sure you're ready before you go in.

I thought I wasn't going to be able to on my first win. I was a summoner, and it was really easy to just constantly fart out a bunch of chaff to the point where the male boss never even attacked me. The problem was, between its shields and healing, it took me several hundred turns to actually kill it.

The female boss didn't seem to have heals, and I was able to fight her seperately since before I closed all the portals some of the darkness demons had covered half the level in their squares of eternal darkness. It made it easy to divide and conquer.

Vanilla Mint Ice
Jul 17, 2007

A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.


Well I managed to did it!

I didn't know about the portal monsters attacking them thing so I closed them all. But instead of feeling sad that most of spells are useless, I respecced some class points into Echos From The Past, which is a 6 cooldown spell that does more damage the less hp they have. I used the rod from the spider boss and Time Skip to keep the guy away while I slowly took down the girl and then it was just standard 1vs1 after that.

I won with a paradox mage (character sheet) which was really really fun. Lots of tools for all situations. It sucks that Cease to Exist is as buggy as it is because it would otherwise be such a good spell. I died 15 times but like 3 of those were from a bugged out Zigur fight, 3 from adventurers, 1 from orc patrols and 2 just now from the giant golem so I like to believe I could've won with just normal mode all else considered. The gameplay is solid even if there are a bit of ongoing balance issues with saves and the likes and some of the later dungeons are too drawn out(sup orc bleed pit). I'm a bit burned out right now but maybe later I'll try a melee class.

Indecisive
May 6, 2007



Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

Well I managed to did it!

I didn't know about the portal monsters attacking them thing so I closed them all. But instead of feeling sad that most of spells are useless, I respecced some class points into Echos From The Past, which is a 6 cooldown spell that does more damage the less hp they have. I used the rod from the spider boss and Time Skip to keep the guy away while I slowly took down the girl and then it was just standard 1vs1 after that.

I won with a paradox mage (character sheet) which was really really fun. Lots of tools for all situations. It sucks that Cease to Exist is as buggy as it is because it would otherwise be such a good spell. I died 15 times but like 3 of those were from a bugged out Zigur fight, 3 from adventurers, 1 from orc patrols and 2 just now from the giant golem so I like to believe I could've won with just normal mode all else considered. The gameplay is solid even if there are a bit of ongoing balance issues with saves and the likes and some of the later dungeons are too drawn out(sup orc bleed pit). I'm a bit burned out right now but maybe later I'll try a melee class.

Just curious, haven't unlocked Paradox Mage yet but how is Cease to Exist bugged? It does seem like a cool spell so it'd be a shame if it's not working properly.

Vanilla Mint Ice
Jul 17, 2007

A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.


Sometimes Cease to Exist doesn't pull you back to the original timeline despite it's duration not running out and effect not dispelled, which sucks when you blew all your big cooldowns expecting to be able to go back. But what's worse is that it sometimes basically crashes the game when it tries to pull back to the original timeline.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Holy poo poo Temporal Warden is good. Just so god drat good. Like, puree Bill in 3 rounds at level 5 good.

I can see how the plethora of options would be overwhelming to some folks, but I didn't find it that bad. I was able to work out A Plan after like three minutes of looking at the tree. Sure I could have this ridiculous multitude of different abilities, orrrrr I could max out like four different skills to the exclusion of all else and roll around dealing sixty billion temporal damage per flurry while also teleporting through walls and having all of the Strength and Magic, all of it, all of the points in the world.

This is a Good Class, every play this Good Class because it owns.

e: I recommend Higher for the race, because they get bonuses to every attribute which is great for a super multi-attribute-dependent class like Warden, and their instant regen ability is loving amazing as a counterpoint the the Temporal Warden's major weakness, which is comparative squishiness for a melee(-ish) class. I guess you could be an archer warden or something though, Weapon Folding + teleport abilities + a 60%-speed projectile weapon would be pretty facemelting

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at Jan 25, 2012 around 17:22

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Diet Evil, only one Calorie

Make sure to max out spin fate and two weapon defense (think you need to unlock this category first) as well. B37's spin fate increases defense when you're physically attacked, and it can climb to ludicrous amounts - to the point of invincibility against most physicals. Of course this can be problematic if you happen to ever fight any clones of yourself.

Spin fate is getting the defense bonus removed in the next version however. Archer TWs will still be completely gross though.

Paradox mages are gross if only for the confuse power. AoE confuse on a short CD on anything is just too good, because confuse is just too good of a debilitating effect.

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


Indecisive posted:

Just curious, haven't unlocked Paradox Mage yet but how is Cease to Exist bugged? It does seem like a cool spell so it'd be a shame if it's not working properly.

There's an issue with how projectiles are tracked that doesn't play well with Cease To Exist (or other chronomancy spells really). It was fixed once before but some recent code changes broke it again. Unfortunately it's all stuff in the core that I know nothing about so all I can really do is pester other people to fix it.

Happylisk
May 19, 2004

Leisure Suit Barry '08

I stopped being pouty and resumed playing (to the surprise of no one). I've been playing Reavers lately.. I really like them, the diseases are so much fun. I'm dual wielding the crooked club and skull cleaver, and I'm not quite sure when to upgrade.

Also, first character to kill the weirdling beast or whatever it's called. Been trying for some time.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

Heyyy watch it chief


Angry Diplomat posted:

I guess you could be an archer warden or something though, Weapon Folding + teleport abilities + a 60%-speed projectile weapon would be pretty facemelting

You can kinda be both at once. Weapon switching is instant for wardens and you get weapon folding and teleport either way. I didn't put any points into archery abilities except one into bow mastery for a bit of extra damage, that plus haste (which stacks with the elf haste racial) with a 60% bow is enough to drop most trash mobs before they reach melee range, and you still have a full arsenal of melee abilities to chop bosses up. And even bosses can be softened up quite well with archery.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010


I think I found a bug! Anyways, off to work so don't have time to try to replicate it. If you so desire, here is what I think are the steps needed.

1. Pick up a rune into your transmogrification chest.
2. In the screen after leaving the level, remove the rune from your chest.
3. Without closing the screen, change the tab to the runes tab, and use the rune.

I'm not sure if it does it when you're replacing a rune, but when you have an open rune slot, it didn't use up the rune.

Protocol 5
Sep 23, 2004

God created Fenway to train the faithful.


Angry Diplomat posted:

e: I recommend Higher for the race, because they get bonuses to every attribute which is great for a super multi-attribute-dependent class like Warden, and their instant regen ability is loving amazing as a counterpoint the the Temporal Warden's major weakness, which is comparative squishiness for a melee(-ish) class. I guess you could be an archer warden or something though, Weapon Folding + teleport abilities + a 60%-speed projectile weapon would be pretty facemelting

I prefer Cornac over Higher, since the attribute bonuses are irrelevant by level 10, and the regen power is quickly outclassed by decent midrange infusions. Since you don't need a manasurge rune, you can run an extra regen/healing infusion and spend a category point to buy another slot for movement, shielding, attack, teleport, or whatever. The Higher racial talents are pretty unimpressive, so having more flexibility with runes/infusions feels like a more versatile and powerful option. The unlockable trees are mostly class talents, so it's not like you're going to be spending all 4 of your category points on trees as a Cornac TW anyway.

Cuntpunch
Oct 3, 2003

A monkey in a long line of kings

Protocol 5 posted:

I prefer Cornac over Higher, since the attribute bonuses are irrelevant by level 10, and the regen power is quickly outclassed by decent midrange infusions. Since you don't need a manasurge rune, you can run an extra regen/healing infusion and spend a category point to buy another slot for movement, shielding, attack, teleport, or whatever. The Higher racial talents are pretty unimpressive, so having more flexibility with runes/infusions feels like a more versatile and powerful option. The unlockable trees are mostly class talents, so it's not like you're going to be spending all 4 of your category points on trees as a Cornac TW anyway.

Isn't the biggest problem with Cornac the fact that you have the super fast levelling, without the sharp focus that you can get from playing a Yeek?

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Diet Evil, only one Calorie

The biggest problem with Cornac is that you have no racial tree in exchange for an early game category point. Stress on the early game, as it lets you buy a rune at level 10 and unlock a tree. Otherwise the 5th point is just kind of meh in exchange for a racial tree.

All of the racial trees have at least one good thing in them at least. Timeless, instant summon treants, a lot of great save talents, confusion immunity, every single undead racial, etc.

German Joey
Dec 18, 2004


Rascyc posted:

The biggest problem with Cornac is that you have no racial tree in exchange for an early game category point. Stress on the early game, as it lets you buy a rune at level 10 and unlock a tree. Otherwise the 5th point is just kind of meh in exchange for a racial tree.

All of the racial trees have at least one good thing in them at least. Timeless, instant summon treants, a lot of great save talents, confusion immunity, every single undead racial, etc.

well, you can use that point to pick up a tree from an escort quest. there's at least four good ones worth taking now, depending on your build.

German Joey fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2012 around 06:22

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


Cornac pairs well with classes that have good unlockable trees as well as good generic talents to invest in. It's also handy if you plan to unlock harmony, an escort tree, or invest heavily in anti-magic or hexes.

In other words it's a great race if you plan around it and really know what you're doing. I think what throws a lot of people off is that it's not a beginner race like the 'plain' human is in many RPGs.

Next beta I'll be making a Cornac Berserker with Anti-Magic and possibly Harmony and/or the Defiled Equipment tree. Which gives me access to the Conditioning tree, Combat Techniques, and the trees above to put generic points into. I'll also be able to have Bloodthirst and Superiority unlocked early without feeling like I'm short on Infusions.

It's a character I've been wanting to play for awhile but without the Conditioning tree to dump a bunch of generic talent points into it didn't feel viable. Now it does

Then again, we have add-ons so I guess I don't need to wait until beta 38 to get started.

Vodurden
Jun 5, 2011


Paradox spells are the best thing ever, especially if your enemies spells backfire.

Ran into an adventuring party that had a paradox mage. They pretty much slaughtered me but on the brink of death 15 friendly dwarves spawned and beat the poo poo out of them.

I thought it was an allied kingdoms patrol but now I'm fairly sure it was a paradox backfire.

Vodurden fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2012 around 08:29

Big Sean
Jan 17, 2010


One time I took 500 physical damage fighting the time bozos at the end of the rift and died, so that happens as well.

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

This game owns a lot! It's the only roguelike I've ever tried with gameplay that didn't bore or irritate me.

But it keeps crashing for me, at a specific point. Whenever I set foot in the Old Forest, with any character, it bluescreens and I have to restart. I assume this has something to do with the environmental overlay effects in that dungeon, but I can't find any graphics settings or tweaks that resolve the problem, and nobody seems to have any solutions on the official forums.

Have any of you ever had this problem? Any idea how to fix it?

Max Volume
Mar 30, 2005
I draw pictures

"Bluescreen" is too general to really give any kind of solution. I'd start with researching the exact error you're getting and going from there. As it is it could literally be anything.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Big Sean posted:

One time I took 500 physical damage fighting the time bozos at the end of the rift and died, so that happens as well.

I tried to blink behind cover to get out of sight of a skeleton master archer who'd just pinned me. My spell wonked the gently caress out and instead plunked me immediately in the middle of the room he was in, surrounded by ghouls and still completely open to his shots.

Paradox effects are the Xom of ToME4.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


I like Cornacs for classes who are starved for generic points. The character I'm currently playing is a Cornac Cursed. The five inscriptions at level ten really helped me survive their early-game terribleness, and between the cursed body, defiling touch and generic weapon/armor trees I'm not exactly hurting for places to put generic points.

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Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Diet Evil, only one Calorie

Attorney at Funk posted:

This game owns a lot! It's the only roguelike I've ever tried with gameplay that didn't bore or irritate me.

But it keeps crashing for me, at a specific point. Whenever I set foot in the Old Forest, with any character, it bluescreens and I have to restart. I assume this has something to do with the environmental overlay effects in that dungeon, but I can't find any graphics settings or tweaks that resolve the problem, and nobody seems to have any solutions on the official forums.

Have any of you ever had this problem? Any idea how to fix it?
The "shaders" option in video options is the one you want to disable if you want to get rid of all the little overlay effects (like the black/white plane effect, or the red low health effect).

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