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Torokasi
Jan 13, 2011

Powered up to a level 2 super schmendrick.


Tsurupettan posted:

I have become addicted to dwarves, but I noticed on my Wyrmic that my spell/mind resists capped out. Is there an equation or chart or something detailing when resists cap? I think my resists were capped at 45ish at level 21 or 22. It made the last point or two of the gold -> resist skill unnecessary at the time.

Kinda tempted to start a Yeek though since I unlocked them last run. Are they great as any specific class?

Their affinities make them best for magic - Alchemist (to cover their frailties), Archmage (to do similar), and Summoner (to play to their strengths) seem best of what I have unlocked. This being said, they uh kinda... have a massive bloody roadblock in the form of Subject Z that I seriously can't figure out how to bypass.

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Lprsti99
Apr 7, 2011

I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
~Oscar Wilde


Tsurupettan posted:

Kinda tempted to start a Yeek though since I unlocked them last run. Are they great as any specific class?

Berserker.

Post poste
Mar 29, 2010


Torokasi posted:

Uh. And do -what-, precisely? I have nowhere else I can go, I cleared out both of the other two dungeons Ritchell and Yeachell.

EDIT: In case I didn't make it clear, the race I'm using is Yeek.

You're at the end of the dungeon where you unlocked Yeeks. Recalling takes you to the surface, not back to the yeek island.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


I just had a pretty cool encounter in the ruined dungeon on my dwarf wyrmic.

As soon as I step inside there are a ton of dragon hatchlings, an ice drake and a storm drake in sight. I sort of panic and hit quake, a spell that does an AoE knockback and also scrambles all the terrain in its radius. This moves some walls between me and the drakes, but unfortunately it also puts the stairs on the other side of the wall, cutting off my means of escape. I use a spell that lets me burrow like a sand worm and try to find an approach to the drakes that doesn't involve cutting through a narrow hallway full of hatchlings while the drakes shoot lightning at me.

As I'm burrowing, an umber hulk digs it's own tunnel up next to mine. I kill it, then notice that there's another drake+hatchling horde at the end of its tunnel, this time fire. Meanwhile, two Xorns (enemies that can move through walls but don't dig tunnels) have found me. I retreat back down the tunnel, which is rapidly filling with fire drake spawn, and deal with the two Xorns. Meanwhile yet another umber hulk has burrowed into my tunnel. I kill him with the fire dragonspawn closing in on me, and realize that his tunnel has opened me back up to the room with the ice and storm drakes.

I'm really starting to regret not having a teleport rune, and decide that it's time to do or die. The situation had changed a bit so now rather than having to chop through a hallway full of hatchlings to approach the ice/storm drakes, they were now all assembled into a horde in an open room. I use sand breath, blinding the entire horde. As the hatchlings stumble around they open up a pathway to the storm drake. I use lightning form to rush up next to it, shield bash it, assault it and eat it. At this point the blind debuff had worn off so I use bellowing roar to confuse them.

Most of my abilities were now on cooldown, so I hit burrow and head for the dungeon's main north-south hallway. I toss out a tornado behind me, which kills the ice drake who had been hurt pretty badly by the confused hatchlings. So I burrow out into the hallway and run into a group of orcs led by a wyrmic. I take them out using my lightning breath and weapon skills and then eat the orc wyrmic, gaining his courage. I'm finally able to rest a bit, then I head back and finish of the fire drake and the remaining hatchlings.

Also, I take back what I said about swallow earlier. Once you get a lot of abilities to use it's amazing for keeping your equilibrium (mana) low (high). I'm not sure if it warrants more than 1 point though.

Torokasi
Jan 13, 2011

Powered up to a level 2 super schmendrick.


Post poste posted:

You're at the end of the dungeon where you unlocked Yeeks. Recalling takes you to the surface, not back to the yeek island.

... that's incredibly counterintuitive, since Yeek entrance is from Yeek island, but... okay. That explains that.

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


Torokasi posted:

... that's incredibly counterintuitive, since Yeek entrance is from Yeek island, but... okay. That explains that.

It's actually something of an exploit in my opinion but Subject Z is poorly balanced for a level 10 character.

Back when enemies still respawned people dealt with this by grinding their character up to level 12+ before tackling Subject Z so they'd at least have fourth tier talents. Now they don't have that option so it's best to just skip that fight until later on most classes.

Blunt Force Trauma posted:

Edit: Can anyone tell me where to find information on creating my own tileset? The in-game custom tileset menu mentions that it needs to have the exact same naming scheme as the existing tilset, which it says is in the module's data/gfx folder, but I can't find that.

The team files are a form of compression. You can uncompress them with winzip or similar decompression utilities.

e vv: I don't blame you, I've lost level 15 characters to him. Level 10 is just brutal.

oneliquidninja fucked around with this message at Jan 4, 2012 around 22:11

Torokasi
Jan 13, 2011

Powered up to a level 2 super schmendrick.


oneliquidninja posted:

It's actually something of an exploit in my opinion but Subject Z is poorly balanced for a level 10 character.

Back when enemies still respawned people dealt with this by grinding their character up to level 12+ before tackling Subject Z so they'd at least have fourth tier talents. Now they don't have that option so it's best to just skip that fight until later on most classes.

I'm going to refuse to brush off him one-shotting my alchemist golem as a "poor balance" and say that I'll take the ability to skip past him and return because as he stands he's flat out bullshit at L9-10, which is about where you'll end up against him now. Still, thanks, that gives me some ideas as to how to handle this and I think an alchemist will be how I get that class unlock.

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Oh super wow! That looks like a tasty thing for me to eat with my excellent beak!


Does doing the antimagic training also stop me from equipping anything powered by arcane forces from then on? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it for my Dorf Bulwark.

The only magic ability I have is Imbue Object, will it also get rid of my positive energy skills (providence).

Tsurupettan
Mar 26, 2011

My many CoX, always poised, always ready, always willing to thrust.

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Does doing the antimagic training also stop me from equipping anything powered by arcane forces from then on? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it for my Dorf Bulwark.

The only magic ability I have is Imbue Object, will it also get rid of my positive energy skills (providence).

I don't think you can even see Zigur at this point if you have a magic or positive energy resource.

vvvv That will teach me to assume things.

Tsurupettan fucked around with this message at Jan 4, 2012 around 22:29

Gils
Aug 23, 2008

take it smugly


100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Does doing the antimagic training also stop me from equipping anything powered by arcane forces from then on? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it for my Dorf Bulwark.

The only magic ability I have is Imbue Object, will it also get rid of my positive energy skills (providence).

It'll block all spells, runes, and arcane items, yes.

And you probably can still see Zigur. It only checks the first time you enter the worldmap if you have a spell resource bar. I just did it on a character that had a mana bar from an escort, and he still has the mana bar (just no way to use it).

Tsurupettan
Mar 26, 2011

My many CoX, always poised, always ready, always willing to thrust.

Holy poo poo I am officially a Summoner convert. At first I thought they were kind of stupid, but I started in with the Yeek Summoner guide on the ToME Wiki. Level 10 I got to Subject Z and absolutely murdered him with my Hydra and Minotaur. Sadly, I lost the Yeek npc, but maybe next time. Careful summon usage let me clear the dungeon, too. This class is absolutely amazing with a few levels.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Diet Evil, only one Calorie

Is there a protip to how to use stores? I was glancing at the walkthrough in the OP and it mentioned store inventories being instantiated at the current player level that you have when you walk into the shop. Is there a best level to instantiate most shops at? What few shops I tried to mess with had such high prices that I really haven't had any opportunity to use them much.

Torokasi
Jan 13, 2011

Powered up to a level 2 super schmendrick.


Tsurupettan posted:

Holy poo poo I am officially a Summoner convert. At first I thought they were kind of stupid, but I started in with the Yeek Summoner guide on the ToME Wiki. Level 10 I got to Subject Z and absolutely murdered him with my Hydra and Minotaur. Sadly, I lost the Yeek npc, but maybe next time. Careful summon usage let me clear the dungeon, too. This class is absolutely amazing with a few levels.

Man, he just teleported past my summons and caved my head in. Lucky. I'm running another Yeek Summoner, plan on getting a few levels before committing back to Subject Z.

WAMPA_STOMPA
Oct 21, 2010


I don't really like antimagic because of all the cool things it blocks. Providence is amazing.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011

If the body is a temple, then I've committed countless acts of desecration.


Lets gently caress Bro posted:

Never heard of this game before. How does this compare to Dungeon Crawl? Also, can I use hjkl movement? (no numpad)

Dungeon Crawl is a more traditional roguelike.

I like TOME4 quite a bit, but I find that playing it as a roguelike (as opposed to adventurer with multiple lives) gets kind of wearing after a while. The starts are always the same, and once you've done them once you're really just redoing content. DCSS in particular among rogulikes relies much more on the randomization factor to maintain a high interest level despite repeated plays. TOME4 has, at least for me, a limited shelflife because of this.

Adventurer is also not much fun. The game is balanced as a roguelike, and with adventurer it's just a grind.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011



Blunt Force Trauma posted:

I don't know what vi keys are but you can bind movement to whatever keys you want.

Can anyone tell me what's up with my Alchemist's Heat spell? The tooltip says that it does 175.9 damage over 8 turns, but it only ticks for 4 damage per turn.

Gotcha. However, in clicking through the menu I appear to have set basically everything to left click. Is there a way to reset the keys to default, or a list on a wiki somewhere?

Tsurupettan
Mar 26, 2011

My many CoX, always poised, always ready, always willing to thrust.

Torokasi posted:

Man, he just teleported past my summons and caved my head in. Lucky. I'm running another Yeek Summoner, plan on getting a few levels before committing back to Subject Z.

I maxed out the infravision thing. It is the best thing ever, especially when coupled with another item to boost it. I drop my summons on mobs like a drat mile away and just let them take the heat.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHnMDGIbFkc

Jordan7hm posted:

Adventurer is also not much fun. The game is balanced as a roguelike, and with adventurer it's just a grind.

I think you are misunderstanding adventurer - you have a finite number of lives. After they run out, if you die, you die for real. Trying to get through a boss by sheer force of will is not going to work. (As I learned to my cost...)

PotatoManJack
Nov 9, 2009


I've just started playing this a bit, and it's a neat roguelike so far. I can't say I'm in love, but it's a bit different than the standard fare, and the loot is quite nice.

I was a bit annoyed by the second area for elves - the corrupted forest place, as mutant wolves and rats kept nailing me from range with mind attacks for like 30 damage each. I found it so much harder than the dwarf or human equivalent second dungeon.

What is the general noob mistake that I'm probably making that will help me move beyond the early game?

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Oh super wow! That looks like a tasty thing for me to eat with my excellent beak!


Don't got charging into the fargate (or whatever it's called) in your home base once you unlock it.

I came across a boss that had an area field attack that it could fire from out of my vision range that did big damage and ALSO pinned me. And the field refreshed the pin every turn so I couldn't get away, even using an infusion to clear it.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


Phase door no worky?

Gils
Aug 23, 2008

take it smugly


PotatoManJack posted:

I've just started playing this a bit, and it's a neat roguelike so far. I can't say I'm in love, but it's a bit different than the standard fare, and the loot is quite nice.

I was a bit annoyed by the second area for elves - the corrupted forest place, as mutant wolves and rats kept nailing me from range with mind attacks for like 30 damage each. I found it so much harder than the dwarf or human equivalent second dungeon.

What is the general noob mistake that I'm probably making that will help me move beyond the early game?

Don't go to heart of the gloom yet? There's nothing stopping you from going to trollmire or kor'pul after finishing norgos.

PotatoManJack
Nov 9, 2009


Hmmmm... my starting area was completely blocked off from anywhere other than the first dungeon, 2nd dungeon, and the town. I figured it would be like that every game and wasn't just bad luck.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011

If the body is a temple, then I've committed countless acts of desecration.


Fangz posted:

I think you are misunderstanding adventurer - you have a finite number of lives. After they run out, if you die, you die for real. Trying to get through a boss by sheer force of will is not going to work. (As I learned to my cost...)

Yeah it's been a while.

Regardless, it's the same thing. A huge part of roguelike attraction for me is the fact you get one shot at it. Felids in crawl are crappy because of the extra lives - adventurer is the same thing.

(This is a fun game though. Just wish the start dungeons were more randomized.)

edit: Also, I did say that you get multiple lives, not infinite. I find TOME to be more of a mix between a turn-based diablo and a more traditional roguelike.

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Don't got charging into the fargate (or whatever it's called) in your home base once you unlock it.

I came across a boss that had an area field attack that it could fire from out of my vision range that did big damage and ALSO pinned me. And the field refreshed the pin every turn so I couldn't get away, even using an infusion to clear it.

Teleport or a movement infusion (which also provides 100% pin immunity for a few turns) would have helped get you of that. The spell is called Gravity Well (there's an unlockable class that can cast it).

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHnMDGIbFkc

Jordan7hm posted:

Yeah it's been a while.

Regardless, it's the same thing. A huge part of roguelike attraction for me is the fact you get one shot at it. Felids in crawl are crappy because of the extra lives - adventurer is the same thing.

(This is a fun game though. Just wish the start dungeons were more randomized.)

edit: Also, I did say that you get multiple lives, not infinite. I find TOME to be more of a mix between a turn-based diablo and a more traditional roguelike.

Well shrug, I quite like adventurer, since it lets me take risks like tackling tough dungeons or bosses early, instead of grinding up on safe dungeons.

Blunt Force Trauma
Mar 16, 2008

No one gives a fuck about shit.
So fuck your shit.
We fuck shit up,
Cause shit's fucked anyway.
Shit is run in to the ground.

I don't wanna think about it,
I just wanna get down.


PotatoManJack posted:

Hmmmm... my starting area was completely blocked off from anywhere other than the first dungeon, 2nd dungeon, and the town. I figured it would be like that every game and wasn't just bad luck.

The elven starting area is not blocked off, but you do need to use diagonal movement to get out of it.

I haven't had any problems clearing Heart of Gloom second, but all of my elven characters have been archers.

God of Evil Cows
Feb 23, 2007

Let this be our final battle!


I started playing this roguelike thanks to this thread and I've been having a lot of fun. I have a bunch of random questions though. These might be spoilerish so don't read this if you don't want to see spoilers.

First off, I'm confused as to how Rogue stealth is supposed to work. I invest a point or two in it and creatures seem to see right through it most of the time, but then sometimes lose track of me. Also I invested a point in shadowstrike and sometimes I get the critical hit when breaking stealth and sometimes I don't. This seems to be unrelated to whether or not the creature is actively attacking me at the moment. Is there any way to check whether or not a creature has "noticed" you and thus whether you'll get the shadow strike? Does increasing the stealth talent make it so creatures will notice you less often and thus you'll shadow strike more often? Does stealth stay useful throughout the game? Also I noticed that a lot of the rogue stun talents check against dexterity. Does this mean they are checking against accuracy (and thus it's good to have really high accuracy?) If that's the case, does physical power do anything for rogues?

Next up, questions about the spellcraft feat for archmages. Does the "hole shaping effect" work with triggered and/or persistent effects, particularly hurricane? I.E. do I not have to worry about getting zapped by hurricanes I created if I have spellcraft at max? What about infernos and the trailing flames from the wildfire school? Also, which of storm and wildfire is generally considered to be the more effective path?

Finally, I have some questions about the alchemists quest. Can a quest you currently have active be completed if you turn in the ingredients for a different alchemist or does it pick randomly among the potions you have not yet started a quest for? Also, where can I find the following monsters: Nagas, Multi-hued wyrms, and Luminous horrors?

WAMPA_STOMPA
Oct 21, 2010


Someone in ingame chat told me that even if you get that red "foo has spotted you" message you still crit them when you attack from stealth, and my experience agrees. Anyway stealth scales with cunning so you get spotted less as you progress. Not getting spotted has some advantages- mages and archers won't target you, monsters will miss with spells, etc. So I think it's a good investment.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

GOOOOOOOOOOONS!

God of Evil Cows posted:

I started playing this roguelike thanks to this thread and I've been having a lot of fun. I have a bunch of random questions though. These might be spoilerish so don't read this if you don't want to see spoilers.

First off, I'm confused as to how Rogue stealth is supposed to work. I invest a point or two in it and creatures seem to see right through it most of the time, but then sometimes lose track of me. Also I invested a point in shadowstrike and sometimes I get the critical hit when breaking stealth and sometimes I don't. This seems to be unrelated to whether or not the creature is actively attacking me at the moment. Is there any way to check whether or not a creature has "noticed" you and thus whether you'll get the shadow strike?

I'm not sure about your other rogue questions (I haven't really touched that class), but you can check if a monster has seen you or not by hovering over its sprite. There's one line that'll say something like "Target: ". If they haven't see you, it'll say "Target: None.". If they have, it'll be "Target: [Character]". You can also use this to tell if they're trying to attack your golem or your alchemist, if your playing that class.

Gils
Aug 23, 2008

take it smugly


God of Evil Cows posted:

Finally, I have some questions about the alchemists quest. Can a quest you currently have active be completed if you turn in the ingredients for a different alchemist or does it pick randomly among the potions you have not yet started a quest for? Also, where can I find the following monsters: Nagas, Multi-hued wyrms, and Luminous horrors?

Yes, turning in a potion can cause one you're working on for another alchemist to be completed. I had two complete sets of ingredients, and of course he has to finish it without me, especially since that was the third one.
Luminous horror you'll probably see at Lake Nur. Naga and wyrms probably not til your 30s-ish.

the night dad
Oct 23, 2006




Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Diet Evil, only one Calorie

I just can't get tired of the sound effect that the Alchemist Golem makes when it shoots lasers from its eyes.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Welp. Turns out the Blood of Life extra life isn't the same as the Adventurer extra lives! Also, I should avoid "adventurer parties" on the world map, I guess!

Also gently caress, air elementals.

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009



Agh, just lost a level 20 character to an ambush while I wasn't paying attention. Just absentmindedly heading back to upgrade my rod of recall and bam, dead. Couldn't do much against those spellcasters as a berserker.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Diet Evil, only one Calorie

I just went 12 levels of Alchemist before realizing golems have their own equipment sheets and stat sheets to level when you level.

Is there any point to leveling imbue item beyond level 1?

oneliquidninja
Jan 6, 2007

I swear I wrote something funny here.


You can imbue higher tier gems so yes. It's very much worth leveling up imbue item.

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

I hate this book and I hate Railrunner and I hate Thunderbark and I hate Black Magic and I hate everything they stand for.

Evil Eagle posted:

Agh, just lost a level 20 character to an ambush while I wasn't paying attention. Just absentmindedly heading back to upgrade my rod of recall and bam, dead. Couldn't do much against those spellcasters as a berserker.

How do you upgrade the rod of recall, and what does the upgrade do?

Scrubber
Feb 23, 2001
I'm just arguing for leniency; all she did was kill her friend.

PotatoManJack posted:

Hmmmm... my starting area was completely blocked off from anywhere other than the first dungeon, 2nd dungeon, and the town. I figured it would be like that every game and wasn't just bad luck.

There is a way out through the trees but it is hard to see. Try using autoexplore on the world map until you get out of that area and into the open parts.

I had to use autoexplore to find the way into that elven starting area, so it should work to get out.

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHnMDGIbFkc

Over world exploration is kinda obnoxious. Someone needs to draw some roads all over the place, and make the trees more obvious which tiles exactly are passable.

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