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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I missed this thread, I must repost my request.

I'm in need of various China history. I am interested in Hong Kong in the 1800s, colonials in China/late Qing more generally, and both the Han and Tang dynasties. Both Chinese and western perspective for the colonial stuff would be good.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Jive One posted:

The Cambridge History of China is about as comprehensive as you can get. It's expensive though.

Yeah I'm not spending thousands of dollars on books. Other suggestions?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Hocus Pocus posted:

Edit:
And anything good on British Hong Kong?

I'm still hoping someone has an idea here too. Searching for Hong Kong books is just a wave of finance poo poo.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Bagheera posted:

I don't buy into the belief that Genghis Khan was an inhuman monster, but I also don't believe he was the savior of the world. So a book that starts out with ten pages fellating his legacy makes me skeptical. I already bought it, so I might as well read it, but I'll take it all with a grain of salt.

There has been a lot of revisionist pro-Genghis stuff lately. I think it has its place and re-examinations are good, but I would suggest listening to Dan Carlin's Wrath of the Khans or picking up a less sympathetic book to go along with it to get some balance.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


vyelkin posted:

Guns of August is probably the most famous book on the outbreak of the war.

Yep, this is what you're looking for. Best approachable book to start with, if it grabs you you'll have a whole world to dig into.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Otto Von Jizzmark posted:

Anything good on Brigham young and the early Mormon church?

Under the Banner of Heaven is a lot about modern Mormon fundamentalists, but it also traces the history in some detail and is worth reading.

I'm going to crosspost from the general thread: I'm looking for history books about Japan, but not all the samurai/WW2/anime books that are coming up in my searching. I want something about the post-war transformation, from the 50s through the 70s/80s. I've found a couple for the immediate post-war occupation era but I am interested in something about the changes during the boom times and I am not finding much.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I am looking for things on the history of computers/hacking. I read The Innovators recently and I have read other books I can't remember the titles of, so suggest away. I'll take anything but I particularly enjoy the wild west 70s to early 90s era. All the stuff that inspired cyberpunk, more or less.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Dapper_Swindler posted:

I can believe that poo poo. Most people who served/survived world war 2 are dying out. in another 20 years their will be none left. and once awful poo poo goes out of living memory, people start saying it wasnt so bad. examples people defending stalin and other long dead autocrats both left and right. Hitler is one of the few who is still taboo and even that is slowing going away. :(

That always happens with distance though. It's fresh because it's so recent, but you can read any history of Alexander or Caesar's conquest or the Mongols or Tamerlane or hundreds of other dudes who are now looked at dispassionately and project back that people who were actually affected by it had the same disgust we feel about the idea of an account of Hitler that isn't purely negative. It's inevitable. I guarantee you centuries from now there'll be a history book talking about how Hitler was instrumental in bringing peace to the historically war-torn European nations. That's just how it works.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Dapper_Swindler posted:

true, but those people actually either conquered a hell of lot and kept it for long time, and or started long lasting empires. Hitler didnt do either. he held on to most of europe for 4-5 years, hosed up bad with Russia, killed 12 million people because they were the wrong religion/ethinicity and then blew his brains out cursing everyone. He didnt enact any long lasting moral laws or codes. He might be treated "softer" but not by much. they only way he will get fully redeemed is if europe falls under the far right.

I'm not looking to defend Hitler here but you can very easily make the argument that the current, unprecedented level of peace and cooperation in Europe is directly a result of the horrors of the World Wars (which will be condensed into a single conflict eventually). Europe may have become more peaceful just as the general world trend has been towards peace--though, again, the World Wars are a big part of that--but it might very well look more like East Asia, where there's no active fighting but everybody hates each other and is on a hair trigger. I can't tell you that's going to be the common view of it in the future but I guarantee there'll be plenty of books making the argument.

It also depends on if the European peace lasts in the long term or this is just a short interruption in the usual state of affairs.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Thanks for the computer suggestions, I'm checking a few out now. I was also reading a random Wikipedia article and therefore want to read something about the Victorian era Royal Navy. Preferably about Asian stations but I'm okay with anything good.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


And it's extra thorny because it's totally understandable why they did it. Somebody has to administrate the place and you don't necessarily have a lot of options. In Iraq the De-Baathification process went to the extreme that it didn't in Germany/Japan and is a big reason why ISIS exists now.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I am now looking for pre-colonial African history books. Any time period is fine, I tend to like ancient stuff. And not North Africa, south of the Sahara.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


My standard recommendation for that is Rubicon by Tom Holland. He's a great writer and it's about the end of the Republic, which is the best documented of one of the most dramatic periods of Roman history.

A second possibility is SPQR by Mary Beard. I actually have not read it yet but I have seen a bunch of her Roman documentaries and they're really good, and she tends to approach the subject from a common person perspective instead of the elite. So, I'm going to bet the book is worth reading.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Are there any histories in English of the Khmer empire? The only Cambodia books I can find are Khmer Rouge stuff and I want to know about the people who built Angkor.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Are there any good books on the Inca or Aztecs prior to the arrival of Europeans? Maya would be fine too, or Olmecs or any of the American urban civilizations really. It's okay if the book covers the conquest but I really want something focusing on before. I've read 1491, I want to get deeper into individual cultures.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


It's a good book, and will also make you wonder why the gently caress Belgium gets no poo poo about colonialism today. I've been looking for older Africa histories for a while and there just don't seem to be many. There's a lot of really exciting archaeology going on right now, so hopefully there will be books coming in the next few years.

There's a BBC documentary series called Lost Kingdoms of Africa which is all on youtube and is really good.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I am looking for East Germany books, focusing on the government/society. Everything I've read suggests they took Stalinism and just went batshit with it but I don't know details. I've read Stasiland already.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Guy A. Person posted:

Second one is more specific but I was reading Fast Food Nation awhile back and was extremely intrigued by the chapter on the science of smells and artificial flavors, how they will use seemingly unrelated extracts/chemicals to combine into a common scent/flavor like caramel or mint or whatever. I tried to find more extensive books/articles on the subject but didn't know what to search for and got a bunch of 90 dollar chemistry textbooks popping up.

Mary Roach's book Gulp is about eating and food science, it has at least one chapter about that subject and is all related.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Looking for history of computing books that are focused from the mid-60s up through the mid-80s or so, if such a thing exists. It doesn't have to exclusively be that time period as long as it has plenty of material in that range.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Jedi425 posted:

It's more '80s Internet, but I'll pop back in to mention The Cuckoo's Egg again. It's not exactly history of computing, but it's adjacent.

Early internet is good too. I have this one and haven't read it yet.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


It's one of the better broad overview books I've read in a while and would be my first recommendation for that type of text. There was a bunch in there I'd never read about before and Mary Beard is an engaging author.

E: Tacitus is the most fun of the Roman historians imo, he's a cynical rear end and doesn't like the Roman Empire much.

Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 13, 2018

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Minenfeld! posted:

Is there any good history of the Incas out there?

The Last Days of the Incas by Kim MacQuarrie is very good. It's focused on contact and the resistance against Spain but has some pre-contact stuff in it too.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


spiderbyte posted:

So I read "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes a while ago, and quite enjoyed it. Wasn't too dry, but still was informational. Definitely recommend if anyone is interested in that topic. It goes from the first explorations in the atom, all the way up to the Manhattan Project itself. I feel like it gives you a nice overview and feel for the people involved as well. It focuses more on the American research into the bomb, for obvious reasons. But it does talk a little bit about what other nations such as Japan and Germany were doing as well. Overall, great read. I listened to the audiobook of it, and I thought it was well done and well voiced.

This is unrelated to your post but I think the sequel Dark Sun is a better read, if you haven't gotten to it. Less about physics and more about the Soviet espionage stealing the atomic and hydrogen bomb research.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


vyelkin posted:

I haven't actually read it, but I flipped through Eric Cline's 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed once and it looked really interesting, and I hope to return to it someday.

It's good, I have read it and can recommend.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


cloudchamber posted:

Is Scott's thinking particularly common among scholars of ancient history? I know basically nothing about the field but is it really full of people who think that our first mistake was when we started farming cereal crops?

Not particularly. Good scholarship recently has realized that pre-agriculture people actually had more free time and there were negatives to settling down along with the positives, which has launched a small field of trying to figure out exactly what compelled the development of settled societies. But Scott is rather extreme.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


MeatwadIsGod posted:

I've heard that Tokyo Vice was basically complete bullshit but haven't found any breakdowns as to how. Is there a reputable book on the Yakuza, assuming Tokyo Vice really isn't?

I don't know what to make of the Vice controversy but I'm reading Yakuza by David E. Kaplan right now and it's pretty good.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I didn't know sans-culottes even had internet access.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


chernobyl kinsman posted:

hieronymous make this botm it sounds badass

It is. Then read Broken Spears after to complete the journey.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


SubG posted:

Menzies' theory that Chinese explorers circumnavigated the globe in 1421 needs more evidence in the same sense that the theory that aliens built the pyramids does.

Yeah. It is utter, complete nonsense with no basis in anything whatsoever. There is zero evidence for any of his claims. More stuff: https://historycooperative.org/not-rewrite-world-history-gavin-menzies-chinese-discovery-america/

The only thing in the book even remotely possible is Chinese sailors had been to Australia, since we know the Chinese traded in Indonesia and it wouldn't be that hard to get lost and run into Australia from there. But even that has no evidence at all, it's just possible to imagine it happening.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


EoinCannon posted:

There were Macassan traders from Indonesia trading with parts of Australia before European contact but Wikipedia says mid 1700s and "possibly earlier". Bit of a leap from the 1400s

As I said. Zero evidence, but if evidence turned up at some point it wouldn't be that surprising.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


StrixNebulosa posted:

As I'm really enjoying the Making of the Atomic Bomb (Richard Rhodes) and the Great Deluge (Brinkley) and feeling awful about humanity, I've decided that I should go on a nonfiction book shopping spree for my birthday in a couple days.

You should throw Dark Sun in there, Rhodes' book about the hydrogen bomb. I think it's a better book beyond just being the second part of the story.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Neurosis posted:

I'm probably less worried about it than I would be if I were reading a book about something which is a major contemporary controversy, where it is harder to trust that the author's mind was dispassionate in making qualitative judgments on how to resolve controversies (I know academics have their own little turf wars which can become heated but I think it's probably less of a factor here than when reading, I dunno, an analysis of the New Deal).

This is a highly incorrect thing to believe about academics. :v:

I have seen people get loving enraged about Macedonians. And I don't mean the modern spats over the name in Greece.

Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Aug 1, 2019

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Of the three Nixonland is the most fun read, but I'm looking forward to the Reagan one.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


ulmont posted:

Read anything by Mary Roach:

Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003M5IGE2/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i2

Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00421BN2C/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0

Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AN86JZ4/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i4

etc. If those land for you, look for general deep dives into some aspect of the world (Mark Kurlansky's Salt and Cod come to mind after that). Not necessarily uplifting per se, but often interesting.

These are good suggestions, Mary Roach is great.

They're not entirely depressing-free but I like books that are based around living in places and interviewing people, there are a lot of those set in China. They have depressing parts because China's 20th century history is pretty rough, but I wouldn't say they're depressing the way a lot of histories can be.

Some I recommend: Peter Hessler's River Town, Oracle Bones, and Country Driving. Leslie T Chang, Factory Girls. Michael Meyer, In Manchuria.

After that if you want something full of incredibly hosed up but fascinating stories, Liao Yiwu's The Corpse Walker is good.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Also tbh King Leopold's Ghost is one of the most depressing history books I can think of and it's normal to be bummed out after reading that. The Congo Free State is top level :yikes:

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Yep read both of those if you want a complete picture of things.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Extremely wide net: any history audiobooks you've particularly enjoyed? I have a couple Audible credits kicking around to use and no real idea what to spend them on. I'm open to anything, preferably something pre-modern and not American (unless it's pre-Columbian). The longer the better, some unabridged 50 hour thing would be ideal.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Last Days of the Incas by MacQuarrie is great.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Norwich is the main narrative, but if you read it keep in mind it's an old book by the field's standards and the scholarship has changed quite a bit.

History of Byzantium is good and uses modern scholarship.

For a modern book on a more narrow time period, Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood by Anthony Kaldellis is good.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Look Sir Droids posted:

Yeah, if the scholarship is outdated I’d like something more recent. It also looks like Norwich is hard/expensive to get.

Who is the author for History of Byzantium?

Robin Pearson. https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/

I know you asked for a book, not a podcast, but frankly this podcast is the best up to date, full scope narrative history of the ERE you're going to get in English. I don't think there are any comprehensive books that have been published in the past few decades.

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