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NINbuntu 64 posted:Stop. loving. MONOLOGUING.  "You sly dog! You got me monologuing!" Wait, no, that only worked because the entire premise of the movie is satirizing idiotic superhero tropes. Terraciano actually thinks the king (who is fearing a loving feather boa  ) is a badass villain.
WeaponBoy fucked around with this message at May 29, 2012 around 07:26 |
| # ? May 29, 2012 07:22 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 20:00 |
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ZeeToo posted:Wait. 
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| # ? May 29, 2012 07:23 |
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Glitterbomber posted:Once again, this comic literally only works if Dominic and his crew are the bad guys. Has anyone pointed this out to Terraciano?
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| # ? May 29, 2012 07:29 |
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So wait the king had them make a circle for him (whatever that means) and then just left to do other stuff but then came back because he needed the power? He obviously didn't need the power to control the archmagi. So...why did he create the circle so long ago? He wasn't getting any power from it while he was away from it (or else he wouldn't need to reclaim it now) so he could have waited until just recently to have it created. This would have had the additional bonus of not having to reveal his plans to the person who took his place on the circle.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 07:36 |
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Just once, in any comic like this, I'd love for the bad guy to just as soon as the hero storms in to go "GASP, Duke Evil Dark, YOU are the monster?!" he shoots them in the loving face and goes "Yep". Like, I get that big speeches for villains are a super common trope and all but it'd be so satisfying for just once the bad guy to go 'nope, gonna just murder this hero, like I've murdered nearly everyone else who bugged me'.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 07:39 |
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Glitterbomber posted:Just once, in any comic like this, I'd love for the bad guy to just as soon as the hero storms in to go "GASP, Duke Evil Dark, YOU are the monster?!" he shoots them in the loving face and goes "Yep". This is why Top Dollar is the best villain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi8obKLsc9A#t=45s
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| # ? May 29, 2012 07:44 |
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I can see where Mookie drew some of his inspiration from.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 08:04 |
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WeaponBoy posted:
I think it is meant to be a fur lining to his cloak, which is the only way Mookie knows to show someone is a rich noble.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 09:15 |
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Say what you will about this stupid plot, but man, King Johan's outfit is absolutely fabulous!  I bet you the tailor in Down Town Erossus makes all the King's robes!
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| # ? May 29, 2012 10:49 |
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Mookie posted:There will probably be filler of some kind next Monday in place of a comic. But how will we be able to tell? 
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| # ? May 29, 2012 10:56 |
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Badguys who are, in fact, hardworking cult-of-personality types and self-made men who worked for it their whole life (but got a bit TOO ambitious) vs. Goodguys who were just pretty much born into it seems like a pretty common theme these days. I mean, I could make a list here (Lex Luther vs. Superman, Voldermort vs. Harry Potter, Syndrome vs. Mr. Incredible, Amon vs. Korra, and that's just without trying). That doesn't make this excusable, though. It just means there's so, so, so many examples on HOW TO DO IT BETTER. Blurry Gray Thing fucked around with this message at May 29, 2012 around 11:07 |
| # ? May 29, 2012 11:04 |
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I cannot see panel 3 as anything other than a guy with extreme wall-eyes.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 11:28 |
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:Badguys who are, in fact, hardworking cult-of-personality types and self-made men who worked for it their whole life (but got a bit TOO ambitious) vs. Goodguys who were just pretty much born into it seems like a pretty common theme these days. Your first three examples, amusingly enough, are also of villains who are overwhelmingly intelligent versus guys who Have Heart and a fuckton of muscle to back it up. Luthor is so smart it completely levels the field with Superman. Same with Syndrome. Voldemort was an incredibly brilliant magician with emotional issues. And who do they all fight? Superman's a terrifying alien who enforces "justice" and "law" as he sees fit, on such a personal level it's horrific. Mr. Incredible is also incredibly strong and largely invulnerable, using his power to mostly stop muggers and wasting his potential. Harry is some dumbass kid with moron friends. Snarkiness aside, I think the reason that kind of cliche arises is simple. Superman, Harry Potter, Dominic Deegan, these are guys who can't help being who they are. They have these various abilities and are simply trying to live a decent life. The villains are actively using their gifts to change the world into what they think will be better. It's not a recent thing at all, this is pretty much rote for stories in human history.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 13:10 |
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If the most powerful magic users in all of creation were vulnerable to a simple little magic persuasion, they deserve to be enslaved.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 13:38 |
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Young Freud posted:This is why Top Dollar is the best villain. Was that the scene where they legit killed the dude, because yea if so pretty much the best villain.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 13:56 |
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Glitterbomber posted:Was that the scene where they legit killed the dude, because yea if so pretty much the best villain. Nah, that was the scene where he returns to his girlfriend's apartment and David Patrick Kelley and gang shoot him at the beginning of the film. Supposedly, the actual scene of them shooting him was filmed near the end of production, so they had most of Brandon Lee's work in the can. However, there were reshoots and the compositing was...iffy to say the least. You can tell which shots were done after his death because most of them are of his stunt double in silhouette or in the dark. Even Draven shooting scene at the beginning is done in POV.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 14:05 |
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:Badguys who are, in fact, hardworking cult-of-personality types and self-made men who worked for it their whole life (but got a bit TOO ambitious) vs. Goodguys who were just pretty much born into it seems like a pretty common theme these days. To be fair, Voldemort is portrayed as viciously over-the-top evil with a side of pedophile and Lex stole 40 cakes. That's terrible. I haven't seen The Incredibles nor whatever those other two are from (Avatar, maybe?) but I'm sure the other "eeevil guys" actually have some motivation or explanation behind their actions. More specifically, Voldemort comes across as a selfish sociopath whose issues were only aggrivated and he was never really put in a position of power by anyone so Mookie can't claim the same of the king--no one but hard-line crazies and bigots seem to actively follow Voldemort so the idea of a guy who was already so obviously psycho could not have made it to a position of power over an entire country and be considered a beloved leader without a huge chunk of people from other countries and even many of the citizenry smelling something fishy. Lex Luthor is a megalomaniac with power fantasies but has enough charisma to get by with many people and has often been shown to have a side of himself that isn't wholly selfish or evil and his evil acts have been explained by his worldview and a genuine sense of self-betterment. King David here has just kinda out of nowhere gone evil for no tangible reason. The whole "other beings are bigoted!" thing is lazy and shoehorned in and wouldn't explain why he's willing to outright murder normal folks with them.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 16:32 |
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^^^^Now that you mention it, Voldemort didn't have to work to get everything he had; he was naturally gifted.Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Your first three examples, amusingly enough, are also of villains who are overwhelmingly intelligent versus guys who Have Heart and a fuckton of muscle to back it up. Luthor is so smart it completely levels the field with Superman. Same with Syndrome. Voldemort was an incredibly brilliant magician with emotional issues. Hey, Harry is some dumbass kid with 1 moron friend. Hermione just loves hanging out with idiots for some reason (probably so she can be super snotty all the time).  This whole point just proves how bad Mookie is at writing. People love these types of stories because it's basic wish fulfillment. You can kind of live vicariously through these special people that have their own strong code of honor and always get the bad guy. It shouldn't be hard to make a this kind of story that appeals to people since most everyone has that fantasy at some point. Mookie just fails to make his wish-fulfillment character remotely likable or decent, so only broken (or young and immature) people can relate to or admire him. i hate meatloaf fucked around with this message at May 29, 2012 around 16:44 |
| # ? May 29, 2012 16:38 |
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ZeeToo posted:Wait.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 17:08 |
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:Amon vs. Korra Sorry to go on a bit of a tangent here, but am I the only one who is actually kind of rooting for Amon? Like, I get that losing one's Bending is awful but his position is actually pretty solid and reasonable. The way I see it, the show can only end with either everyone losing their Bending or non-Benders acquiring Bending. I appreciate that the show focuses on an issue that's often overlooked in fiction, namely the social dynamic between people with a Gift and people without. It's something that Mookie doesn't bother touching on at all, but then again he doesn't even take into consideration something as basic as where food or money comes from.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 17:09 |
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Personally, I just can't get over how tremendously dull the main villain here is. I mean, the guy has no personality whatsoever; he's just sitting there, twirling his moustache and giving a speech straight out of the Big Book of Generic Villain Monologues.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 17:27 |
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Kit Walker posted:Sorry to go on a bit of a tangent here, but am I the only one who is actually kind of rooting for Amon? Like, I get that losing one's Bending is awful but his position is actually pretty solid and reasonable. The way I see it, the show can only end with either everyone losing their Bending or non-Benders acquiring Bending. I don't know, I think one of the points of the Avatar is supposed to be maintaining and restoring balance, and that could extend to restoring balance between the two social classes rather than taking the stance that everybody has to be one way or the other. But enough about that, let's talk about this shitheap. If these "Circles" are just magical... stuff that can be taken up by anybody at any time, I seriously don't get why King Evilfornoreason isn't just taking them all. Unless... Oh no. I'm calling it now, either Momgan or Dominic will absorb the other circles to power the final showdown with the king.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 17:28 |
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The Five Circles of the Archmagi are hiding a more horrifying truth. Mookie is a secret Zionist. This summer, when England sinks to the ocean floor through the Illuminadi attack, he will rip off his cloak of Italian heritage and reveal himself to us, his thralls. And we will weep blood for his favour.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 17:44 |
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I can't believe you didn't include Dr. Doom in that.  Edit: DaveWoo posted:Personally, I just can't get over how tremendously dull the main villain here is. I mean, the guy has no personality whatsoever; he's just sitting there, twirling his moustache and giving a speech straight out of the Big Book of Generic Villain Monologues. That sounds like something Xykon from Order of the Stick would say. OriginalPseudonym fucked around with this message at May 29, 2012 around 19:12 |
| # ? May 29, 2012 19:08 |
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Your first three examples, amusingly enough, are also of villains who are overwhelmingly intelligent versus guys who Have Heart and a fuckton of muscle to back it up. Luthor is so smart it completely levels the field with Superman. Same with Syndrome. Voldemort was an incredibly brilliant magician with emotional issues. Korra would fall under your classification there, too. She's very much a straight fighter that's a foil to Aang, who was more passive and cerebral. One thing to note is that Superman's not meant to be terrifying, though, embodies all the most positive attributes humanity has. The fact that he's from another world shows that these traits aren't inborn. Anyone can learn to be as noble and empathetic as Superman, but few people have the courage to try.  Also, the big thing with Harry Potter is that he was locked into a self-fulfilling prophecy before he was out of diapers. The whole thing about destiny only being what you make of it is a recurring theme of the books. Voldemort thought he was preventing the prophecy by killing Harry, but what he was really doing was weighing two potential candidates (Neville and Harry) and marking one as a threat, thus feeding into it. Voldemort didn't hear the full prophecy, so he didn't get that part, but even with the information he had he could have decided prophecies are bunk and moved on. In that case, the entire cycle instigated by the prophecy would never have occurred and someone else would have had to defeat him. It's an interesting look at fate that Dominic Deegan never approaches. Mr. Incredible did try to do bigger and better things, but he was forced into retirement because superheroes don't mesh well with real-world bureaucracy. He was reduced to busting petty criminals because he wanted to do good while also keeping his family safe. Of all these setups, Dominic has the most in common with Mr. Incredible but even then every thing Dominic does seems more arbitrary and stupid. Mr. Incredible worked on his strengths (literally) he could beat people up really well, but if he had precognitive powers you know he would have done a lot more to make the world better. Dominic alternates between loving around and using his ability to see anywhere at any time and gazing into people's very souls for DBZ fights. Dominic's scope of potential power is magnitudes higher than Mr. Incredible, but while we see Mr. Incredible pushed to his limits multiple times, Dominic hasn't had a serious workout since at least the storm of souls. We see Dominic effortlessly solving problems in Snowsong, the March of Maltak, and two showdowns with the Beast. Why will this time be any different?
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| # ? May 29, 2012 19:11 |
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i hate meatloaf posted:^^^^Now that you mention it, Voldemort didn't have to work to get everything he had; he was naturally gifted. Voldermort was naturally gifted, but he worked very, very hard in school to get to where he ended up. Harry Potter was famous and rich from childhood, spent most of his schoolyears slacking off, and basically won though lots and lots of Deus Ex Machina. But all the things that make the ambitious guy bad and the 'destined' guy good were hit on at some point. I don't really accept "intelligence as a superpower". It's not just raw intelligence that levels the playing field in those cases. It's applied intelligence - as in study and hard work. People who fight superheroes by making robots work a lot harder than the superheroes, even if it just ends up seeming like "having a robot" is now their superpower. I seriously didn't mean this to be a big deal, though. It's a pretty common thing to do, is what I'm saying, and it can be done well, or at least much better than here. It's definitely a bit overused, and there's some wish fulfillment about just being "The Chosen One" instead of working for it - but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea that not every rags-to-riches-through-sheer-hard-work story produces a good and moral person. Blurry Gray Thing fucked around with this message at May 29, 2012 around 20:11 |
| # ? May 29, 2012 19:51 |
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A huge part of modern superman (okay I haven't read superman in a long time but still) too is exploring what natural talent means. He constantly feels like he has to save everyone because he was born "better" than everyone. He's excluded from society yet he still feels like he has to protect them, and other comics (maybe a mainstream superman comic has done it I don't know) have taken inspiration to explore how much someone like that would resent humanity. Dominic Deegan is both the super special seer but also just like you and he has diseases but he's also super saiyan but don't worry he can't dance so feel sorry for your messiah!
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| # ? May 29, 2012 20:09 |
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There's also the Code Geass example, which is sort of an interesting take on the subject. The protagonist is stylistically and symbolically a bad guy, an anti-hero at best, who has one neat power but virtually nothing else and has to build his way to power through cunning, manipulation, strategy while getting very little sleep. He's with the sympathetic side. His foil is stylistically and symbolically a good guy, who has no powers other than technical competence but is on the side of the oppressors and gets all the overpowered technology. He just kind of shows up and destroys everything with brute strength. This is a pretty interesting topic, and that's a connection I haven't really made until now. I really wonder why the "good guys" are so often linked to raw power and the bad guys to intelligence. And then usually they have the bad guy be really crazy or off the mark about some key idea that leads to them being bad guys in the first place. Can we have more stories where the bad guys are just powerful and oppressive and the good guys have to use their heads to win? Or is that too closely linked to the "civilized man vs. barbarian hordes" narrative of old?
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| # ? May 29, 2012 20:11 |
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Kit Walker posted:I really wonder why the "good guys" are so often linked to raw power and the bad guys to intelligence. Probably because raw power is straight forward while intelligence can be tricky and unpredictable.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 20:34 |
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Kit Walker posted:Sorry to go on a bit of a tangent here, but am I the only one who is actually kind of rooting for Amon? Like, I get that losing one's Bending is awful but his position is actually pretty solid and reasonable. The way I see it, the show can only end with either everyone losing their Bending or non-Benders acquiring Bending. Amon himself is sketchy as hell, though. His story about the mask is bullshit. There's no way he wouldn't be showing off a hideous scar/burn that symbolizes the abuse of the non-special people. His followers are all plucky underdogs trying to use smarts and also robots because they're afraid of the superheroes oppressing them. But he, himself, actually does have superpowers. Maybe it's just the one superpower. Maybe it's not. The last series basically ended on revealing that this superpower is the original and greatest superpower from which the other four superpowers came from. Yes, he's living in a world where some people are pretty much just born scary and abuse it. Yes, he got where he is though careful planning, sheer force of personality, and probably a whole lot of training since he can close in on a person throwing all sorts of crazyness at him without using any of it himself. Yes, his main threat is a kid who was destined to have superpowers and be the biggest deal in the world, no matter what, and maybe even her life would be better if all the magic went away and she wasn't stuck as the chosen one. But he's not a very sympathetic figure at all. It's still vague right now, but he really doesn't seem like an earnest but confused idealist. He's exploiting all the earnest idealists to shake things up in a way that'll put him on top. He has a point only in the sense that it makes sense that people follow him.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 20:45 |
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Kit Walker posted:There's also the Code Geass example, which is sort of an interesting take on the subject. The protagonist is stylistically and symbolically a bad guy, an anti-hero at best, who has one neat power but virtually nothing else and has to build his way to power through cunning, manipulation, strategy while getting very little sleep. He's with the sympathetic side. His foil is stylistically and symbolically a good guy, who has no powers other than technical competence but is on the side of the oppressors and gets all the overpowered technology. He just kind of shows up and destroys everything with brute strength. Batman. Sherlock Holmes. Iron Man, I guess? Plenty of clever super-heroes, or ordinary heroes who tech themselves up as super-heroes. What I think it curious is that you never seem to have any politically radical super-heroes - the Punisher, maybe? You could make him an out-and-out fascist or something, would make him more, I dunno, whole.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 22:14 |
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Psych posted:Probably because raw power is straight forward while intelligence can be tricky and unpredictable. To bring this back to Dominic Deegan - that's the weirdest drat thing. This hero is supposed to be the intelligent and tricky sort. Unlike all those Jocks. That's the idea behind the character. But he's not. He cheats. He doesn't have to figure out what's happening, what will happen, or what happened to lead to this situation. He gets to look it up. I mean, come on, that's not what being smart is. He is supposed to be a 'really smart nerd' character, but he just ended up the smug sort of nerd who thinks he's better than everyone and coasts on his natural talents without ever being challenged. He actually does have smarts as his superpower instead of a replacement to power. He doesn't study more, he doesn't practice more, he doesn't use cunning and creative new ideas (although I guess, technically, we're supposed to believe that he does, since he did that thing with the mask). His smarts just mean he's really tough in mental fights. He just has a really, really high Int score that boosts all of his mind magic. He goes "well, I'm smarter than you, that means I can beat you up mentally." And then he does just that. Sometimes he does it while wearing barbarian gear. Now we have a stereotypical 'worked hard for it all his life and thinks he deserves it' bad guy opposing him and his pals. How do you miss the whole point of your own character like that?
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| # ? May 29, 2012 22:21 |
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Watch Mookie backpedal and say every advantage the king has legitimately worked for (joining the battlecasters, becoming democratically elected) is all due to mind-control. The puppetmaster strategy...which Dominic routinely employs.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 22:48 |
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/\/\/\/\So King David working his way up to being Archmage and then King is Siggy 2.0?Veev posted:A huge part of modern superman (okay I haven't read superman in a long time but still) too is exploring what natural talent means. He constantly feels like he has to save everyone because he was born "better" than everyone. He's excluded from society yet he still feels like he has to protect them, and other comics (maybe a mainstream superman comic has done it I don't know) have taken inspiration to explore how much someone like that would resent humanity. Dominic Deegan is both the super special seer but also just like you and he has diseases but he's also super saiyan but don't worry he can't dance so feel sorry for your messiah! The other huge part of post-dailies Superman is that he knows that literally every war, famine and other problem could be solved in at most a month by him using his powers to do poo poo like forcibly disarming every nuclear power. But his more noble and human traits make him aware that doing this would make him exactly what Luthor paint him to be, a fascist that believes his superior strength makes him born to rule. I think it was Earth One that had him making it a big deal when he decided to become a hero. He uses the dorky Clark Kent persona to pass along an interview stating that "There is nothing political about saving a city from a meteor." and ensures the people that he will never intervene on the behalf of one government or power because these are things that humanity has to figure out for itself. It leaks into several aspects of Superman. His mother tells him that she didn't make a mask as part of the costume because when you look at Superman you're supposed to see what humanity can become. Every noble, kind and decent part of yourself that you wanted to ignore because it was necessary. Wearing a mask would destroy that. He would just become another vigilante, and someone that people would fear. Compare this to Mookie. His characters murder unsuspecting victims, drop people into magical prisons without trial, use their magic to impose their will on other people, and surprise sex underage girls. These are his heroes.
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| # ? May 29, 2012 23:02 |
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notoriousman posted:Watch Mookie backpedal and say every advantage the king has legitimately worked for (joining the battlecasters, becoming democratically elected) is all due to mind-control. The puppetmaster strategy...which Dominic routinely employs.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 00:05 |
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V. Illych L. posted:What I think it curious is that you never seem to have any politically radical super-heroes - the Punisher, maybe? You could make him an out-and-out fascist or something, would make him more, I dunno, whole. Green Arrow is super left-wing if you're looking for a political superhero. Deeganchat: I had the impression that the Circle of Arch-Magi were honorary positions, but now they're actual things? I know Mookie doesn't plan these stories out, but does he really just poo poo out ideas and then not pay attention to them? You'd think with how thorough he is with linking to old comics when they're relevant that he'd be able to hold onto the ideas he had when creating the things.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 00:07 |
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Voldermort is the worst thing about the series. He is such a cardboard cutout villain that it's almost comical. And as for king, wouldn't this be more interesting if the king wasn't revealed as the villain a couple of months ago? What did it even achieve to show him as a big bad villain so early on in the story? It would have been interesting if Mookie showed him concerned with what was going on and trying to help Miranda try and defeat the beast whilst all along undermining all their efforts. They'd trust him because of his background and he was a former circle mage, and maybe you could have him trying to sway everyone with how arrogant and bigoted the circle mages are. He'd probably make some great points and the conflict between Dominic/Miranda and king might actually be somewhat interesting. But nope, king is evil, all the good guys know this and har har Mookie will never plan poo poo.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 00:30 |
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Toes posted:Voldermort is the worst thing about the series. He is such a cardboard cutout villain that it's almost comical. The problem with this is that it would still be boring and cliched. The powerful guy who was helping us turned out to be evil? Gasp! The answer would be to do something no one would see coming. How about Momeegan turning out to be evil? She locked goatee guy in the box to use as a magical battery and is now going to harness the Beast to do something or other. Then Dominic is forced to kill her, but decides to keep it a secret in order to protect his family and everything his Mom helped work for. You could even bookend it! Since everyone now hates and despises him he's forced to change his name, altar his looks, and lives out his days as a seer to some small town where everyone asks him dumb questions.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 00:48 |
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Nah, Dominic will just find a portal to another dimension where he'll become the protagonist for Mookie's next comic.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 01:03 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 20:00 |
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V. Illych L. posted:Batman. Sherlock Holmes. Iron Man, I guess? Plenty of clever super-heroes, or ordinary heroes who tech themselves up as super-heroes. What I think it curious is that you never seem to have any politically radical super-heroes - the Punisher, maybe? You could make him an out-and-out fascist or something, would make him more, I dunno, whole. Green Arrow. Dude's a hardcore leftist anarchist. The original team up with him with the Green Lantern was a unique synergy. G-Latern served as the conservative law-and-order type while Green Arrow was his counterpoint.
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| # ? May 30, 2012 01:12 |
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