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One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

I'm definitely not a fast reader and I have little regard for so called speed reading. That's something to do for book reports not for a leisure activity. If i dedicate myself to all day reading it still takes me about 2.5 - 3 days to finish a 600ish page book.

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chiefnewo
May 21, 2007
the chief of newo

One posted:

I'm definitely not a fast reader and I have little regard for so called speed reading. That's something to do for book reports not for a leisure activity. If i dedicate myself to all day reading it still takes me about 2.5 - 3 days to finish a 600ish page book.

I don't have any "speed reading" techniques, I just happen to read fast. I can finish a 600 page book in a day if I'm enjoying it enough and don't have anything else to do. I do occasionally miss small details if I'm distracted but I think I would get bored if I tried to go any slower.

One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

My reading speed has increased this last year I noticed because I've read way more books than I used to. I used to not be able to read any faster than as if I were saying the words out loud. Maybe I could finish 3-400 pages a day now but no more than that I'm sure.

cryptoclastic
Jul 3, 2003
The Jesus

I noticed in I think chapter 19 when they're dealing with the trollocs on their way to Shadar Logoth, Mat is the only one who gets caught in a noose. Poor guy was doomed from the start.

One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

I was so angry with matt for taking that dagger from Shadar Logoth. It's the one thing he definitely should not have done and you are helpless as you watch him blunder ahead and do it.

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008


I give Matt the benefit of the doubt in that he grabbed the dagger to have a weapon when Mordeth goes all nuts, an once he's holding it he's at least somewhat under sway.
Shador Logath stuff above ^

omnibobb
Dec 3, 2005
Title text'd

I love this series and all, but drat does everyone need a dose of listen to those with experience.

"tell me if you have bad dreams. I can help with bad dreams."
"derr, lets not tell herwe had bad dreams"

"hey, dont do this thing in shadar logoth"
does it anyway
"come on guys im serious, did you do it? If you did its super dangerous"
"no way, jose"

I know it's just a book and for plot development and stuff but everyones life would be so much easier if they stopped and talked for a bit. Especially later in the series.

One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

omnibobb posted:

I love this series and all, but drat does everyone need a dose of listen to those with experience.

"tell me if you have bad dreams. I can help with bad dreams."
"derr, lets not tell herwe had bad dreams"

"hey, dont do this thing in shadar logoth"
does it anyway
"come on guys im serious, did you do it? If you did its super dangerous"
"no way, jose"

I know it's just a book and for plot development and stuff but everyones life would be so much easier if they stopped and talked for a bit. Especially later in the series.

This got on my nerves big time. Everyone resists doing the thing that would make their lives easier. I guess it's partly explained by saying that people from the 2 rivers are stubborn but there's a difference between stubborn and self destructively contrarian.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010


One posted:

This got on my nerves big time. Everyone resists doing the thing that would make their lives easier. I guess it's partly explained by saying that people from the 2 rivers are stubborn but there's a difference between stubborn and self destructively contrarian.

Thats not exactly uncommon in reality though. It can take a lot for people, especially teenagers, to open up to someone they're still sort of afraid of. And once you lie once about the dreams, well then its worse because you have to deal with the dreams and them getting mad at you for lying about it. Much easier to pretend nothing is wrong and try to deal with it on your own or ignore it.

That describes how half the people I knew in High School and college dealt with things like poor grades, terrible relationships and sometimes severe illness. Trying to ignore it in the vain hope it'll go away is a terrible loving idea, but its a very compelling one for people in their teens/early twenties.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly representing vanilla Legends since 1994


omnibobb posted:

I love this series and all, but drat does everyone need a dose of listen to those with experience.

"tell me if you have bad dreams. I can help with bad dreams."
"derr, lets not tell herwe had bad dreams"

"hey, dont do this thing in shadar logoth"
does it anyway
"come on guys im serious, did you do it? If you did its super dangerous"
"no way, jose"

I know it's just a book and for plot development and stuff but everyones life would be so much easier if they stopped and talked for a bit. Especially later in the series.

Oh, yeah, but early on they have an excuse for not doing what Moiraine says - she's Aes Sedai. Everyone is afraid of the One Power, and almost nobody trusts Aes Sedai despite their Oaths. Much later on, a sister suggests that the Oaths actually hurt more than they help; Aes Sedai cannot lie, but as a result they've become so good at obfuscating that nobody ever believes they say what they mean anyway.

Also, Mat didn't believe he had done what Moiraine said not to do. He was told not to take anything he was offered, but so far as he was concerned he wasn't offered the dagger - he just took it.

caleramaen
Mar 29, 2006
Even if I'm wrong, that doesn't mean you're right.

Jedit posted:

Oh, yeah, but early on they have an excuse for not doing what Moiraine says - she's Aes Sedai. Everyone is afraid of the One Power, and almost nobody trusts Aes Sedai despite their Oaths. Much later on, a sister suggests that the Oaths actually hurt more than they help; Aes Sedai cannot lie, but as a result they've become so good at obfuscating that nobody ever believes they say what they mean anyway.

Also, Mat didn't believe he had done what Moiraine said not to do. He was told not to take anything he was offered, but so far as he was concerned he wasn't offered the dagger - he just took it.

That might be the reason he doesn't instantly turn into Mordeth the second he leaves Shadar Logoth

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006

Do Randroids Dream of Objective Sheep?

One posted:

I was so angry with matt for taking that dagger from Shadar Logoth. It's the one thing he definitely should not have done and you are helpless as you watch him blunder ahead and do it.

Shadar Logoth stuff;

If you wanna be mad be mad at Mat suggesting they go out in the first place. Once Mordeth found them, Mat taking possession of the dagger is the only conceivable thing that would have gotten him to stop possessing one of them right there. It just so happens that grabbing the dagger carries a ton of extremely unfortunate side effects.

One posted:

I guess it's partly explained by saying that people from the 2 rivers are stubborn but there's a difference between stubborn and self destructively contrarian.

Not really.

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008


Oh man. How did I forget that Thom is the definition of BAMF?

dorijan
Apr 24, 2011
sleepy

Oh boy, I've finished reading book five of the series yesterday. It appears I've missed quite a bit in book one, so I'll be following this thread closely while re-reading parts of it.

rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003



Daedalus Esquire posted:

Oh man. How did I forget that Thom is the definition of BAMF?

Not to be confused with the sound Nightcrawler makes, of course.

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

THAT'S our O-line?


caleramaen posted:

That might be the reason he doesn't instantly turn into Mordeth the second he leaves Shadar Logoth

That is one of those things that never made sense to me. Why didn't he become Mordeth?

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008


Ramadu posted:

That is one of those things that never made sense to me. Why didn't he become Mordeth?

From what I got from the descriptions furnished, Mordeth is a separate independent entity from the taint itself. If he had been present upon Matt leaving the city with the dagger, I think he would have been able to "escape" the city through the tainted dagger right away due to proximity or whatever. Once they put some distance between themselves and the city, it became more of a slow poison.

I guess in my mind it kinda follows rules similar to magnatism. As distance increase, the attraction becomes weaker, but in this case, as distance increases the rate of Mordeth's corruption decreases. Had they been just beyond the border of Mordeth's prison, with Mordeth near by, he would have had a conduit to escape right way.

Of course this is just my poor attempt to rationalize it, since I have very little to base it on. Nothing but Moraine's brief description, treasure/gifts as a needed catalyst for transfer, and the target needing to be present at the edge of Mordeth's prison.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004



I'm a bit behind in the re-read, but I'm at the scene in Baerlon with Moiraine and Nynaeve having a "pleasant" conversation. Is this the only scene where we learn Nynaeve's backstory? She mentions that her dad took her out hunting and taught her everything he knew about tracking because he didn't have any sons. She then says both her parents died, but we never learn why or how. Is there any more, or is that it for the rest of the series?

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


I've had EotW on my kindle for a while and finally started rereading it (I love the kindle smart phone app) so I'll be following the thread along at my own pace. One thing I do really love about EotW is how solid it is, the world building is great and when Rand makes references to ogier and the Green Man and Avendesora I can't help cracking a smile.

I also really like how Narg (the wolf headed Trolloc that talks to Rand at the farmhouse) is referenced 12 books later. It's a small thing but it makes the world seem real.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

I'm a bit behind in the re-read, but I'm at the scene in Baerlon with Moiraine and Nynaeve having a "pleasant" conversation. Is this the only scene where we learn Nynaeve's backstory? She mentions that her dad took her out hunting and taught her everything he knew about tracking because he didn't have any sons. She then says both her parents died, but we never learn why or how. Is there any more, or is that it for the rest of the series?

Pretty sure that doesn't come up again. Nynaeve's parents sit right in the same camp as Kari al'Thor, Mat's mother and Perrin's entire family: Not Important To The Story except when perrin's family is mentioned once only to be unceremoniously slaughtered offscreen a chapter later in book 3 or 4

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


They are actually brought up in the bonus chapter in the one edition, nothing very specific that I can remember but they're described as a big and close family, lots of daughters I think? The chapter is called Ravens and it's from Nynaeve's perspective like 5 or so years before EotW starts.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004



ONE YEAR LATER posted:

They are actually brought up in the bonus chapter in the one edition, nothing very specific that I can remember but they're described as a big and close family, lots of daughters I think? The chapter is called Ravens and it's from Nynaeve's perspective like 5 or so years before EotW starts.

Ah, thats the secret chapter that he wrote for the Young Adult version of the book that he split in two. I hope that gets released as a bonus somewhere, perhaps in the upcoming encylopedia or something. I just can't justify the 6 bux that amazon wants for it. (I don't want to it either...)

Danith
May 19, 2006
I've lurked here for years

I'm up to chapter 39 currently and I just don't get why Perrin, Mat and Rand still refuse to accept the changes that are happening to them. You would think Perrin would accept the wolves and the advantages they give instead of being terrified of it and refusing to believe it despite the evidence, they all seem so whiny now after 30ish chapters of 'it can't be happening, I must be going crazy blah blah blah'.

There isn't as much braid tugging as I thought there was in this book though

Rereading this book makes me wish they started making it into a TV series like they did with Game of Thrones. I'm thinking Daniel Craig could be Lan

I've read up to book 10 or 11 many years ago and one thing I either missed or never figured out, who is Mat supposed to be the reincarnation of? Where is he getting his luck?

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Perrin doesn't want to be special, it's a running thing throughout the entire series and it's not until book 12 that he really (begrudgingly) accepts his new responsibilities and power.

They're all really stubborn fucks it what it kind of boils down to. Two Rivers folk.

One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

I'm definitely with you Danith. Perin is the one that gets me the most with regards to this stuff. His thing with the wolves seems to be the one with no downsides to it but his own personal baggage. He even seems to get over it only to regress and be worse than he was in the first book. I'm only on page 106 of the third book. I can understand Rands problems with his lot and matt has nothing good going for him that I can see, but Perin is just being a baby.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Danith posted:

I've read up to book 10 or 11 many years ago and one thing I either missed or never figured out, who is Mat supposed to be the reincarnation of? Where is he getting his luck?
Super spoilers below, view at your own peril unless you've read to near the end:

E: I realized I may have misinterpreted your question. In-universe, I'm pretty sure that the Dragon is the only one that is reborn, the rest of them are new heroes spun out by the Wheel in a time of need. There's a scene in The Great Hunt that comments on whether any of them are heroes reborn or are new heroic spirits.

He's an amalgamation of lots of legends, but the principle one is Odin/Woden from Norse mythology. Odin hung himself from the Tree of Life, Yggdrasil, in order to gain supernatural knowledge and plucked out one of his eyes so that he could gain information from around the world. He had two ravens, Hugin and Munin, which translate to 'thought' and 'memory' and he wielded a legendary spear called Gungnir, analogous to Mat's ashanderei. He was the god of war and battles in addition to poetry, magic, wisdom and the Hunt. Odin wasn't really a trickster figure (that goes to the god Loki, who incidentally was one-and-the-same with Odin in early mythology) but he did use disguises and mess with people. The 'luck' part of Mat's character is harder to pin down, but since they call it "the Dark One's own luck" it's probably tied with Loki in some way, especially since Mat got it after his brush with the evil of Shadar Logoth and Mordeth.

DarkHorse fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2012 around 15:33

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


One posted:

I'm definitely with you Danith. Perin is the one that gets me the most with regards to this stuff. His thing with the wolves seems to be the one with no downsides to it but his own personal baggage. He even seems to get over it only to regress and be worse than he was in the first book. I'm only on page 106 of the third book. I can understand Rands problems with his lot and matt has nothing good going for him that I can see, but Perin is just being a baby.

I'll mention it more when we get to it but the best thing about book 3 is that every single perspective Mat has, he does at least one super-badass thing. He's pretty much the best character. It also frames his lack of perspectives in the first two books in a way that kinda makes sense: He was cursed and can barely remember anything from that time anyways, so having his perspective then would just be kinda silly

I like the mention when Rand and Mat are wandering that Mat's paranoia easses up around children. Hell, every other sentence in this book is just dripping with meaning in regards to the whole series, it's pretty loving amazing.

Hopper.... nooo.....

Quad
Dec 31, 2007

10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
20 GOTO 10
END

Danith posted:

I'm up to chapter 39 currently and I just don't get why Perrin, Mat and Rand still refuse to accept the changes that are happening to them.

I'm catching up, and one thing I've been keeping in mind this time around is that they're all like 17 years old during the first 3 books. The 17 years of someone from before electricity, from farms, who still played tricks like dunking dogs in flour and probably pulling braids. These are absolutely children.
Mat matures fastest, which is easy to do because, well, he's the luckiest. His love of battles translates to a love of conflict, and he starts to just feed off of everything.
Perrin has the longest way to go, because while he isn't stupid, he was used to a life of simple, rote tasks before everything around him went to poo poo.
Picture yourself at like 14 and now aliens exist and they want to kill you. Just you.

One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

Seriously though if I ever found out I had beneficial powers of any kind I would definitely roll with it instead of moping about being different.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010


One posted:

I'm definitely with you Danith. Perin is the one that gets me the most with regards to this stuff. His thing with the wolves seems to be the one with no downsides to it but his own personal baggage. He even seems to get over it only to regress and be worse than he was in the first book. I'm only on page 106 of the third book. I can understand Rands problems with his lot and matt has nothing good going for him that I can see, but Perin is just being a baby.

Perrin gets some good reasons for rejecting his power though in the form of the wolfbrother he met who has gone completely loving feral and in Elyas who is a man living life permanently on the run. Not to mention that his experiences are being colored by his little run in with the Whitecloaks where they kill some of his very first wolf-friends and show him how most people are going to react to someone who claims to talk to wolves. All of it feels like its pulling him away from everything he finds normal or comforting, and feeds into his greatest fear. He's a control freak because he's always been so much bigger and stronger than others, and he always feared losing control more than anything else. Now with the wolves he doesn't just have to fear losing control in a normal human sense, but actually losing his humanity.

Book 12 is all about him getting over it and realizing his fears are, to a large degree, exaggerated by his assumptions. Once he really faces and deals with them he gets to participate in two of the most awesome scenes in the series

I always liked and empathized with Perrin the most out of the Ta'veren.

One
Jan 9, 2003
My username is creative.

Zore posted:

Perrin gets some good reasons for rejecting his power though in the form of the wolfbrother he met who has gone completely loving feral and in Elyas who is a man living life permanently on the run. Not to mention that his experiences are being colored by his little run in with the Whitecloaks where they kill some of his very first wolf-friends and show him how most people are going to react to someone who claims to talk to wolves. All of it feels like its pulling him away from everything he finds normal or comforting, and feeds into his greatest fear. He's a control freak because he's always been so much bigger and stronger than others, and he always feared losing control more than anything else. Now with the wolves he doesn't just have to fear losing control in a normal human sense, but actually losing his humanity.

Book 12 is all about him getting over it and realizing his fears are, to a large degree, exaggerated by his assumptions. Once he really faces and deals with them he gets to participate in two of the most awesome scenes in the series

I always liked and empathized with Perrin the most out of the Ta'veren.

I felt Elyas was a pretty decent example for how to accept what you are and use the power for what it is. What bothered me the most was Perin rejecting the wolves after sharing that brotherhood and feeling that connection with them. I'm also not saying he should have copied Elyas and lived by himself in the wilderness.

I guess what it boils down to is I don't like whiners or people who can't accept reality. I understand he's young and everything but I was young once too and I dealt with some serious poo poo as a teenager and I didn't mope about it or get all angsty. At bottom I have a character conflict with him. I'm not criticizing the writing when I say all this. I don't want every character to be like me or do what I want them to do. It's good that Perin has his own struggles that are unique to him. I was just saying how I felt about him. I guess it's to Jordans credit that I feel the characters are important enough for me to have an emotional conflict with them.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Quad posted:

I'm catching up, and one thing I've been keeping in mind this time around is that they're all like 17 years old during the first 3 books. The 17 years of someone from before electricity, from farms, who still played tricks like dunking dogs in flour and probably pulling braids. These are absolutely children.
Mat matures fastest, which is easy to do because, well, he's the luckiest. His love of battles translates to a love of conflict, and he starts to just feed off of everything.
Perrin has the longest way to go, because while he isn't stupid, he was used to a life of simple, rote tasks before everything around him went to poo poo.
Picture yourself at like 14 and now aliens exist and they want to kill you. Just you.

They are actually like 19. I dont know if its a retcon or anything, but in this book they mention they are "not yet twenty" and in book... 3 I think? They explicitly state they just recently turned twenty years old, and thats set like a year or so after this book. Theres a pretty concrete timeline of when everything happens in story because (pre book 10 where he kinda stops caring it seems) RJ is always very accurate with the phases of the moon in story.

And didn't people in pre industrial times mature faster than today? Or were considered adults earlier anyways. I always kinda found it weird how apparently 19 (17 for girls)is the age of marriage in the Two Rivers, seems kinda old for this pre-industrial society.

Does that female darkfriend in the barn ever show up again? I cant for the life of me remember.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008



The darkfriend with the dagger?

I think she shows up once or twice more. She is semi-big shot assassin (except I can't remember her ever shanking anyone) and lucks into a mansion or something when her boss fucks up serving Mogheiden.

Might be one of the darkfriends that run into a certain princess waaay later too.

E: Yup, Mili Skane

Infact, she isn't the only one of those early darkfriends (that survive the first book) that show up again. It's pretty mindblowing when you spot them.

Pimpmust fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2012 around 09:03

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly representing vanilla Legends since 1994


Prison Warden posted:

They are actually like 19. I dont know if its a retcon or anything, but in this book they mention they are "not yet twenty" and in book... 3 I think? They explicitly state they just recently turned twenty years old, and thats set like a year or so after this book.

To be exact: Rand was born on 25th November (equivalent) in 978NE, Mat and Perrin were born no more than a couple of weeks either side of that. TEOTW begins on March 23rd 998NE and the events of TDR occur between February and May of 999NE, so they'd all be about two or three months past their 20th birthdays at the start of the book.

Pimpmust, have you not heard of spoiler protection?

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008


^ To have information that exact, I assume there is some WoT website equivalent of the Game of Thrones website towerofthehand.com?

api call girl
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?



One posted:

I felt Elyas was a pretty decent example for how to accept what you are and use the power for what it is. What bothered me the most was Perin rejecting the wolves after sharing that brotherhood and feeling that connection with them. I'm also not saying he should have copied Elyas and lived by himself in the wilderness.

I guess what it boils down to is I don't like whiners or people who can't accept reality. I understand he's young and everything but I was young once too and I dealt with some serious poo poo as a teenager and I didn't mope about it or get all angsty. At bottom I have a character conflict with him. I'm not criticizing the writing when I say all this. I don't want every character to be like me or do what I want them to do. It's good that Perin has his own struggles that are unique to him. I was just saying how I felt about him. I guess it's to Jordans credit that I feel the characters are important enough for me to have an emotional conflict with them.

Perrin is dealing with some of the same issues as Rand in becoming (what seems to him) a monster out of the scary stories people tell around campfires.

On top of that, he's facing either a life on the run like Elyas (who had to get away from Aes Sedai and killed a few of his fellow Warders in the process) or a mindless (well, human mind) life like Noam. Neither are exactly appealing.

In trying to grudgingly call upon his powers, he seems to always get his wolf friends killed. He feels the same way about leading men.

In the 4th book you find that he out of all the main characters suffers the most permanent personal loss.

You should be paying attention to what he does get accomplished even while he's mentally whining about his lot. Dude has a lot of natural leadership abilities and an instant ... sense ... of command that the other boys really take a lot of time easing into.

api call girl fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2012 around 03:29

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why?! Why?! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market ?!!!


Daedalus Esquire posted:

^ To have information that exact, I assume there is some WoT website equivalent of the Game of Thrones website towerofthehand.com?

This should be what you're looking for. Beware spoilers for well literally everything.

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008


Thanks, it's a shame it doesn't have the option like Tower of the Hand to limit the content to what you have seen already. Over there you can say "I've only read the first two books" and it limits all information about a character to what has appeared in only the first two books. It makes it a great resource for remember who minor characters are, or what location is what.

My worry with this, is that if I start reading about someone I think is a minor character, I'm sure it will be spoiler city when they inevitably show up later.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly representing vanilla Legends since 1994


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

This should be what you're looking for. Beware spoilers for well literally everything.

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/

The WOTFAQ hasn't been updated in a little while. I got the timeline from WoTWiki - and beware, that really does contain spoilers as the prologue to book 4 is set before book 3. It's as accurate as can be, up to a point; Jordan used to be extremely diligent about checking phases of the Moon, but slacked off after book 9 when he just wanted to get the series finished.

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Fiendish Dr. Wu
Nov 11, 2010

You done fucked up now!


Nice! This will give me reason to get back into reading these. I left off several months ago at Chapter 42 of The Great Hunt, mostly due to actually not liking book 2 very much. I just caught myself up using the chapter summaries at http://www.thonky.com/wot/ and I'm going pick it back up.

Book 2 stuff: I remember being really happy when Egwene got leashed, I don't know why maybe because it was the only hope of any real action after all the daes dae'mar garbage. Really that was the worst part of the series so far.. I'm really hoping that the Seanchan play a bigger role soon. They're too badass to be written about as little as they are so far.

Glad I found this thread. I'm going to head to the local used book store and try to pick up the next few books so I'm prepared, and might start rereading book 2 and keep along with the thread. Or even, anybody have any copies for books 2 and 3 they'd like to send my way (I'll pay. I prefer the paperback versions like this (and it doesn't matter how beat up they are)?

Question / idea: Since we're doing it as daily / weekly discussions would it be a good idea to have posts for each day, something like

quote:

Week 2, Monday 16 January - 23 January, The Eye of the World: Chapters 17-35

Anyways looking forward to joining this thread.

Also, this should totally be in the OP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AjIJEOm_DU

Fiendish Dr. Wu fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2012 around 16:33

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