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They can be sensed. They can all be sensed. If they are sent on infiltration missions they are warded so they can be sensed by channelers.
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Feb 19, 2016 17:24
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I just got through the Matt part of Winter's Heart. God I love Matt, and I am not looking forward to reading about Elayne again.
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Feb 19, 2016 18:27
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If I remember right, Warder's and Aes Sedai can sense Grey Men but the magic they have has the same effect on their evil-sense as it does on other people's normal senses. Which is why Perrin was able to sense the Grey Men before Lan and Moraine in one of the earlier books, I believe.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:23
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Nihilarian posted:If I remember right, Warder's and Aes Sedai can sense Grey Men but the magic they have has the same effect on their evil-sense as it does on other people's normal senses. Which is why Perrin was able to sense the Grey Men before Lan and Moraine in one of the earlier books, I believe. I just read the chapter where he did in the Dragon reborn actually.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:33
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AlternateAccount posted:So how much blame for crappy plot bits and characterization to we currently ascribe to Harriet? Sorry for the ancient quote, but did anyone else read that interview/QA/something on dragonmount.com where RJ pretty much said all the women in the book were based off of Harriet, or did I just dream it up?
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Feb 23, 2016 10:57
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Haerc posted:Sorry for the ancient quote, but did anyone else read that interview/QA/something on dragonmount.com where RJ pretty much said all the women in the book were based off of Harriet, or did I just dream it up? Oh no, he's been saying that all the time going back to the early books in the series. I don't know how he never filed for divorce.
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Feb 23, 2016 13:54
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While doing three other things at the time I got to ruminating about these books again and got to thinking. I feel like there's a big missed opportunity in this series that explores so much, but notably doesn't explore why anyone at all would want to become a Darkfriend. The closest the series ever gets is Ingtar's hurried partial confession before he runs offscreen and dies immediately. Sanderson gets into some really interesting territory with Demandred.... at the very very climactic of the series, mostly through indirect references to things that happened offscreen in conversation to a woman he's got Feelings for for reasons we learn about only in the most rudimentary ways. Graendal internally mulls it over a bit manipulating Moridin, but even that boils down to "we do things we know are awfulfor reasons we have trouble talking about during and after, and then we stop feeling bad about it and stops mattering and we mostly stop thinking about it ever" It always falls back on some spiritual flaw in the person themselves. Liandrin is greedy and mean. Carridin is an rear end in a top hat and bully. Semirhage likes hurting people more than she likes healing them, and she LOVES healing. Why. Why on earth would you seek these fuckin' people out. Why would you stick it out if the punishment for failure is catastrophic and the reward for success is, invariably, a more unreasonable and impossible demand from an absolute superior? In a series that so meticulously plans out geology, history, economy, politics, climate and metacommentary about the structure and purpose of stories themselves, the series does a worse job of explaining why good people go to the Shadow than Warhammer 40k fiction talking about people falling to Chaos.
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Mar 1, 2016 20:04
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Sheriam and the rest of the Black Ajah are pretty interesting in that regard. She muses to herself that she never really was into the whole apocalypse thing, she joined the Black for power, to advance her career (i.e. becoming Mistress of the Novices for example).
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Mar 1, 2016 20:25
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Torrannor posted:Sheriam and the rest of the Black Ajah are pretty interesting in that regard. She muses to herself that she never really was into the whole apocalypse thing, she joined the Black for power, to advance her career (i.e. becoming Mistress of the Novices for example). I think this is true for most of the low level and mid tier Darkfriends. The Bors points of view show how ill at ease he was around the constructs and when pressure got too high he immediately turned to drink. It's been discussed before, but I think Ishmael was the only one who was a Darkfriend for the right reasons. He believed in the inevitability oblivion.
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Mar 2, 2016 04:51
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Willie Tomg posted:Why. Why on earth would you seek these fuckin' people out. Why would you stick it out if the punishment for failure is catastrophic and the reward for success is, invariably, a more unreasonable and impossible demand from an absolute superior? High risk, high reward. The Dark One promises immortality and power over others (Jordan said its anyone's guess if he keeps his promise). The Dark One has done enough that his followers know he can deliver. The True Power can save people from death, and if that window is missed then the Dark One can just bring them back in a new body. Not to mention that while the One Power is incredibly addictive, the True Power makes it look like pez candy compared to heroin. A ton of the people who became Darkfriends did so for some small advantage in the real world. Want a promotion at work? Become a darkfriend! It's like a social club. The other darkfriends will make sure you get it. It's pretty common in the Wheel of Time for people to have joined the dark side for petty reasons and then been surprised to learn that there are actually powerful people out there who take their oaths very seriously. The point being that your average darkfriend on the ground, especially prior to the start of the series, has essentially zero true knowledge of the mythos of the world. Fain even proves that joining the dark side is essentially a matter of wanting to. Once you swear loyalty you are marked and lose protections and become vulnerable to the Shadow. It's why no non darkfriend ever interacted with Shaidar Haran. E: Between Semirhage, Lanfear, and Graendal many people also did not join willingly. Forcible conversions were their bread and butter. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 17:39
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I'm on book 11 and flying through. The difference between 8-10 and 11 is staggering. Only bad parts have Elayne.
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Mar 9, 2016 22:49
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RC Cola posted:I'm on book 11 and flying through. The difference between 8-10 and 11 is staggering. Only bad parts have Elayne. Bad books are over, it's all good from here. Though the final book is still the weakest of the Sanderson contributions. It really reads like a checklist of poo poo that has to happen before the series can close. Still, it's light years better than 8,9, and 10.
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Mar 9, 2016 23:05
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Cartoon Man posted:Bad books are over, it's all good from here. Though the final book is still the weakest of the Sanderson contributions. It really reads like a checklist of poo poo that has to happen before the series can close. Still, it's light years better than 8,9, and 10. I'm super stoaked for this. I've read 14 once, 13 twice, 12 three times, and 11 four times. The further I get the less I remember. It's nice to be surprised by some things again
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Mar 9, 2016 23:08
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Cartoon Man posted:Bad books are over, it's all good from here. Though the final book is still the weakest of the Sanderson contributions. It really reads like a checklist of poo poo that has to happen before the series can close. Still, it's light years better than 8,9, and 10. The last book could have been fleshed out more to address this issue... but then we would have had books 15 and 16, and I think nobody really wanted that.
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Mar 9, 2016 23:27
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Torrannor posted:The last book could have been fleshed out more to address this issue... but then we would have had books 15 and 16, and I think nobody really wanted that. Yup, and we all know this would've happened had Jordan not been terminated diagnosed.
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Mar 9, 2016 23:42
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Cartoon Man posted:Yup, and we all know this would've happened had Jordan not been terminated diagnosed. Wheel of time 19. The battle for the Lion Throne.
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Mar 9, 2016 23:49
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I'm not so sure. As it is we won't get to see what happens in Shara after all this, or Seanchan, or the other planned prequels, which is unfortunate. While I like Sanderson's Mistborn stuff, I felt like the ending there was poorly executed as well. I haven't read any of his other books, maybe it's a common theme?
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Mar 10, 2016 00:48
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JawKnee posted:I'm not so sure. As it is we won't get to see what happens in Shara after all this, or Seanchan, or the other planned prequels, which is unfortunate. It would be nice to see some of Demandred's adventures in Shara, and Matt and Tuon dealing with each other post last battle. Reactions to Matt saving the world with his leadership. I just read as if the world were fog in knife of dreams. I forgot how satisfying it is reading Tuon's perspective of Matt. A lion on the high plains indeed
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Mar 10, 2016 01:09
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JawKnee posted:I'm not so sure. As it is we won't get to see what happens in Shara after all this, or Seanchan, or the other planned prequels, which is unfortunate. Sanderson is known for his "Avalanche" where all the plot threads come crashing together right at the end and there's no rest or respite until you're through it. It's something he's aware of and has been working to improve his pacing, and I think his more recent books show progress in that regard.
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Mar 10, 2016 01:51
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Cartoon Man posted:Though the final book is still the weakest of the Sanderson contributions. It really reads like a checklist of poo poo that has to happen before the series can close. The Gathering Storm though has one of the best endings in the series, in my honest opinion.
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Mar 10, 2016 02:55
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DarkHorse posted:Sanderson is known for his "Avalanche" where all the plot threads come crashing together right at the end and there's no rest or respite until you're through it. It's something he's aware of and has been working to improve his pacing, and I think his more recent books show progress in that regard. After he got announced to finish the series, I went and bought just about everything he had published up until that point and while it was a good enough diversion, I quickly grew tired of his worlds and gimmicks. I tried reading his sequels to Mistborn and they were just so bad I had to put them down. He seems to be treating the Stormlight Archive with a bit more care so I'm willing to give book 3 a read when that comes out, but I think I'm done with him aside from those. There's just so many better authors to be reading.
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Mar 10, 2016 14:37
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He's really not that great a writer. Technically competent, well suited to pulp fantasy, D&D novels, that sort of thing. I suppose that's kind of the point though - How many A listers would be willing to take a several year break from their own work to finish someone else's series?
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Mar 10, 2016 15:08
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He is a good writer, but a bad wordsmith. He can plot things out well and create good character interaction, but he doesn't have a good writing voice
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Mar 10, 2016 20:59
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The Glumslinger posted:He is a good writer, but a bad wordsmith. He can plot things out well and create good character interaction, but he doesn't have a good writing voice One thing I do like about him is that he's willing to admit where his weaknesses are and is clearly striving to always improve. Like, I don't think any of his works are ever going to be considered works of art, but as an artist I respect that he's always trying to improve rather than churn out the same cheap schlock for a paycheck.
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Mar 10, 2016 21:23
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I don't care about any of that. 20-30 years from now, he's going to write a capstone book series about a Justice Leaugue of all the best characters from his books and it's going to own...
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Mar 11, 2016 01:47
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The Glumslinger posted:He is a good writer, but a bad wordsmith. He can plot things out well and create good character interaction, but he doesn't have a good writing voice Yeah this is what I meant. He can create a good story, and move characters from A to B - he'd be great working as part of a TV writing room, working on plot arcs while someone else handled dialogue. His prose just doesn't have that higher artistic quality that separates great writers from competent ones though, and I don't think he's that good at dialogue either.
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Mar 11, 2016 04:29
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The Glumslinger posted:He is a good writer, but a bad wordsmith. He can plot things out well and create good character interaction, but he doesn't have a good writing voice Another agreement for this. I learned a ton watching the tapes from when he taught a college writing class. Dude knows how books are made but his artistic side is rough in the details.
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Mar 11, 2016 04:31
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He does a podcast with a couple other writers called the Writers Workshop. It's pretty darn good. If you are interested in writing absolutely check it out. These people really like to break it down and talk out their methods.mossyfisk posted:Although if you want to listen to it, knowing that it's actually called Writing Excuses would perhaps help. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 11, 2016 15:57
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Although if you want to listen to it, knowing that it's actually called Writing Excuses would perhaps help.
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Mar 11, 2016 19:27
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He is absolutely fantastic at putting a book together and he was totally the right person to finish the series, but his technical abilities are lacking. It's cool that he is open about that and always trying to improve though.
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Mar 12, 2016 12:47
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Back to Wheel of Time chat. Book 12 is wonderful. Rand's path down the dark side if well done
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Mar 12, 2016 13:54
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mossyfisk posted:Although if you want to listen to it, knowing that it's actually called Writing Excuses would perhaps help. Funny enough, I know Mary through puppeteer circles. Wonderful human being.
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Mar 12, 2016 23:19
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Egwene vs the seanchan was very powerful
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Mar 14, 2016 05:30
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RC Cola posted:Egwene vs the seanchan was very powerful The chapters of her blowing them out of the sky and saving whoever she could in the tower and the end of the book (Veins of Gold, I'm looking at you) were just so cathartic.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:05
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:The chapters of her blowing them out of the sky and saving whoever she could in the tower and the end of the book (Veins of Gold, I'm looking at you) were just so cathartic. I got chills at Veins of Gold. My fiancé kept looking at me wondering why I was giggling like a madman.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:14
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Yeah, Veins of Gold is up there for best chapter of the series, right next to ending of Lord of Chaos where Rand says "Kneel or be Knelt!" or something.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:57
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Taim says that iirc as for favorite scenes I'd put Moraine taking out Lanfear up there with the best
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Mar 15, 2016 01:07
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Cartoon Man posted:Yeah, Veins of Gold is up there for best chapter of the series, right next to ending of Lord of Chaos where Rand says "Kneel or be Knelt!" or something. Kneel to the Lord dragon or you will be knelt by taim is a powerful line. Also rand meeting egwene in calm serenity
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Mar 15, 2016 01:08
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I've always been fond of dagger tainted Mat being the only one to react when Aginor threatens Nynaeve at the Eye of the World. Its the first clue you have that Mat might just be a hero.
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Mar 15, 2016 02:16
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The Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gaidon is still up there for me. It signifies the beginning of the end, is Nynaeve finally becoming what Aes Sedai should have been for the whole series, and Lan finally accepting his destiny.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:33
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