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Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Lascivious Sloth posted:

I'm going through the series this time in Audiobook format and this coincides with where I'm at, not too far in, when Rand meets Min.

There are so many references symbolising a characters role or destiny I didn't pick up the second read through. Perrin is incredulous about wolves when Moiraine mentions they hate Trollocs. Mat alludes to chance a lot, look for it. Min's viewing are worked out/explained throughout the entire series and are still being used as a device and reference. I totally forgot that we are introduced to a lot of the shadowspawn so soon (trollocs/fades/dragkhar.)

I started doing this, but honestly listening to the audiobook just takes so drat long. I'm halfway into chapter two after an hour and a half, I kinda have to eat and sleep as well as finish the story by the time the next age comes in December.

The prologue is fantastic, it's just jam PACKED with little references and allusions to stuff that crops up later the True Power and Ishamael's use of it is great, I think you get more out of it every time you reread the story.

It's odd also how... small the focus seems in these early chapters, concentrating on the very small town worries and such, seeing things from the perspective of these clueless farmboys, especially considering the shift in focus the series undergoes as it goes on. Still, once poo poo GETS REAL soon, we'll be into pretty much my favourite era of this story, right up until the end of book five, I think.

The beginning few chapters are also so Tolkien it is great, it's really evocative, with the whole shire, common-clay hobbits and the mysterious black cloaked rider.

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Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

Nynaeve's very first scene and she's in hardcore bitch mode to Rand.

Start as you mean to go on I guess.

omnibobb posted:

The first three feel kind of small and self contained because there was no definite plan for how long the series would be. Book one was written as a book that could stand alone. When it did well, they stretched it to a trilogy, then a, uh, 6-logy, and then a write however the gently caress much you want-logy.

Books 4-6 are generally considered the highlights of the Jordan written books with 4 or 6 being the general favorites.

Edit: Also, a question: During the prologue, Ishmael is pretty clearly channelling and having a direct effect on the world. I thought he only had a small effect after being sealed in the Bore? Maybe it's so fresh that he still has a pretty strong hand?

Book 3 has always been my favourite, since that's when Mat finally starts being great. He does at least one super-badass thing in every perspective he has and I love two. I think I really liked the whole feel of the adventure back then, but I can elaborate on that later. I think books 4-6 are really more telling of the series as a whole though.

In the prologue, he is also THERE in the flesh. I think we know that Ishamael is basically partially trapped in a sort of wave or cycle, where he is released every 1000 years (may be less, can't recall) I always assumed he just preferred to do his work in the shadows and such. Hell, even AFTER the Forsaken start pouring out fully, he still doesn't go around blowing poo poo up or anything.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


I agree that my appreciation for Nynaeve has grown a lot as I have read the books, though I'm not that much older than when I started, Book Eleven was just about to be released when I first got EoTW, and she still does tend to have some character traits that annoy me tug braid tug braid woolhead tug braid tug braid men are dumb tug braid tug braid. Her personality develops a lot as the story goes on too.

Conversely, I liked Egwene a lot when I first read the series, and seeing her here I can see why, she seems kind of adventurous, wanting to go places and explore new things and such. Her and Mat's attitude towards the outside world is a nice counter to Rand's "Why would I ever leave the Two Rivers" attitude. Whereas now I really can't stand her, and I think those feelings may be tainting zing! my memories of her early character. I'm interested to see when exactly my opinions here change

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


He channels three times in EoTW, before the whole Eye of the World bit I can only remember two off the top of my head. One is the one you mentioned. One of the others is when Mat and Rand are trapped in an Inn later with Darkfriends about to break down the door, Rand channels lightning and blows the wall off and they escape I can't remember the other one.

You can always tell because, as Moirane describes, when someone is learning to channel on their own they become sickly afterwards. It isn't noticeable with Bela, but later Rand starts to get really loving ill for a while, then suddenly gets better, and it gets worse every single time

I'll be glad when we are at weekly here, as I'm a bit behind cause I've been busy the last two days.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


I think RJ has the whole Rand as Jesus/Tyr, Perrin as Thor/Perun and Mat as Odin thing thought up pretty early on. There are a LOT of hints towards later stuff in Min's visions, paying attention to pretty much every one she has is essential

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


omnibobb posted:

Alright suckas, we're moving to a weekly format here.

Between now and January 23 read chapters 17-35.

During this week, remember to spoiler any discussions we have for slower readers.

As usual, previous chapters are spoiler crazy.

Woo, weekly schedule, awesome!

So it turns out I lent my copy of EoTW to a friend (I am that guy), and there's pretty much no chance of me getting it back any time soon. Good job I have the audiobooks I guess. It'll make looking up quotes and whatever pretty much impossible. Oh well!

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's actually almost bizarre how much of EotW is foreshadowing. It's almost an entire book of just foreshadowing.

As to those tipoffs,



1) Removing Bela's weakness. He later gets loopy and dizzy around the Whitecloaks and in the Inn in Baerlon, briefly.
2) Breaking loose the rudder on Domon's ship. He later gets loopy and dizzy up in the rigging.
3) Blasting the darkfriend with lightning in (Market Sheran?). Gets flat out sick in an inn and Matt takes care of him.


Almost every single thing that happens in EotW is not just a plot point but also foreshadowing or part of some puzzle. It's really an amazingly intricate book.

Ah, thats it. It really is amazing how much is foreshadowing, yeah. I must've read the book three or four times, and I JUST picked up that Rand can sense Moirane is channeling, even if he doesn't yet know he can do it. There is even a scene where he says "the moon made a nimbus around her", that I think may have been originally tied into this before it was decided that men could only FEEL not see women embracing the True Source. Thom saying Rand has "the height of an Aielman" is nice too..

I'd also COMPLETELY forgotten that the stone of Tear was even mentioned this early in the story, I thought it didn't come up till book two.

Ross posted:

You read eight WoT books in eight days

I dunno that sounds about right.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


terminal mehmet posted:

Still, that requires significant reading speed. If I can do more than a page a minute in the hardcover format, I'm doing well.

I know people who read books all the time, but have a really slow reading speed because they pour over and absorb every word, taking thier time and enjoying every second of the experience. And then there's people who read so fast that the only reason reading the Mistborn series took them two days was because they had to go back to the book shop and buy the sequels.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

I'm a bit behind in the re-read, but I'm at the scene in Baerlon with Moiraine and Nynaeve having a "pleasant" conversation. Is this the only scene where we learn Nynaeve's backstory? She mentions that her dad took her out hunting and taught her everything he knew about tracking because he didn't have any sons. She then says both her parents died, but we never learn why or how. Is there any more, or is that it for the rest of the series?

Pretty sure that doesn't come up again. Nynaeve's parents sit right in the same camp as Kari al'Thor, Mat's mother and Perrin's entire family: Not Important To The Story except when perrin's family is mentioned once only to be unceremoniously slaughtered offscreen a chapter later in book 3 or 4

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


One posted:

I'm definitely with you Danith. Perin is the one that gets me the most with regards to this stuff. His thing with the wolves seems to be the one with no downsides to it but his own personal baggage. He even seems to get over it only to regress and be worse than he was in the first book. I'm only on page 106 of the third book. I can understand Rands problems with his lot and matt has nothing good going for him that I can see, but Perin is just being a baby.

I'll mention it more when we get to it but the best thing about book 3 is that every single perspective Mat has, he does at least one super-badass thing. He's pretty much the best character. It also frames his lack of perspectives in the first two books in a way that kinda makes sense: He was cursed and can barely remember anything from that time anyways, so having his perspective then would just be kinda silly

I like the mention when Rand and Mat are wandering that Mat's paranoia easses up around children. Hell, every other sentence in this book is just dripping with meaning in regards to the whole series, it's pretty loving amazing.

Hopper.... nooo.....

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Quad posted:

I'm catching up, and one thing I've been keeping in mind this time around is that they're all like 17 years old during the first 3 books. The 17 years of someone from before electricity, from farms, who still played tricks like dunking dogs in flour and probably pulling braids. These are absolutely children.
Mat matures fastest, which is easy to do because, well, he's the luckiest. His love of battles translates to a love of conflict, and he starts to just feed off of everything.
Perrin has the longest way to go, because while he isn't stupid, he was used to a life of simple, rote tasks before everything around him went to poo poo.
Picture yourself at like 14 and now aliens exist and they want to kill you. Just you.

They are actually like 19. I dont know if its a retcon or anything, but in this book they mention they are "not yet twenty" and in book... 3 I think? They explicitly state they just recently turned twenty years old, and thats set like a year or so after this book. Theres a pretty concrete timeline of when everything happens in story because (pre book 10 where he kinda stops caring it seems) RJ is always very accurate with the phases of the moon in story.

And didn't people in pre industrial times mature faster than today? Or were considered adults earlier anyways. I always kinda found it weird how apparently 19 (17 for girls)is the age of marriage in the Two Rivers, seems kinda old for this pre-industrial society.

Does that female darkfriend in the barn ever show up again? I cant for the life of me remember.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


I really like Book 2 personally, but hey different strokes. I think Book 3 is my favourite by one of my best friends didn't really like it all that much. The climax of Book 2 is especially cool.

You hopethe seanchan will play a bigger role huh?

Ahahahahahahahahahaha

I love this part of the series though, where Rand and Mat are on the run. Them being alone and pretty much powerless to do anything is such contrast to later in the series. I am wondering however, if Moiraine had Rand pegged as the Dragon from the start? If his clearly not-Two Rivers ethnicity wasn't a bit of a giveaway, the fact that he has a heron marked sword would be a pretty big clue. I think she would be working on that assumption, anyways

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


terminal mehmet posted:

Are you joking?

If it were, I'd imagine it'd have to be until all the crap it reveals before it's revealed in the main series has been read. Whenever the hell that is.

Yeah, if you read it in strictly chronological order it kinda spoils a lot of stuff. The entire reveal at the end of book one is spoiled in like the first couple of chapters. It does provide interesting insight into the Aes Sedai and borderlands and such though, so I'd probably say we should slip it in in release-order, if that doesn't interfere with the schedule too much. It's pretty short anyways so shouldn't take too long to read.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


terminal mehmet posted:

It's all over the first book if you pay attention. Read their first meeting and when Moiraine talks about who she'd marry, in particular. These two are masters at saying things with a glance or with silence or by saying something else entirely.

They are both Daes Daemar-ing it up to the full Cairheinen-level excellence you would expect.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Mazed posted:

Jordan loves vowels.

If you ever speak with someone else about the series in person, those pronunciation guides will be a godsend. While we're on the subject: it's MWA-rain, not MOY-rain (though as the guide will tell you, the inflection is MoiRAINE), and a-YEEL, not ALE.

We had to keep one open back when we did the old Wheel of Time RPG that came out way back when (i was a Red Ajah ), but no one, no one got "Cairhien" right for more than one sentence.

He also loving loves apostrophes. It comes up more later, when we see more of the old tongue, but drat. I was always hesitant about a WoT RPG. I love the setting, but a lot of the cool stuff I would want to include the Asha'man for example, don't appear until far later in the story, and given the way the story goes, the setting could be totally different by the time the plot is finished, and I always think dealing with canon characters just comes across as dumb fanwankery.

So I just finished the book today. All in all, it is every bit as good as I remember, I even picked up on a few things I missed in my previous readthroughs, which is always a plus. I never really realised before how much was set up this early. And the "main party" in this book includes some of my favourite characters from the story. Except Egwene, she sucks. If this is anyone here's first read through of the story, I'd recommend rereading the series, or at least this book, at least once. There are a LOT of things, especially in the climax of this story, that take on entirely different meanings when you know more of what is going on.

Favourite foreshadowing line (paraphrased): Rand "I'll never channel again, I'd rather cut off my own hand than use the one power."

We also get a few of the poetic prophecy styled phrases in this book, a few of which will turn up again, as well as more in later books. "The Land is one with the Dragon, and the Dragon is one with the Land" and "The Grave is No Bar to My Call" are some of my favourites in the whole series, even and they show up here.

berenzen: ishamael's reborn form is named Moridin because it is the word for death/grave in the Old Tongue, so they just share the same word. The Old Tongue is basically grammatically identical to english but with different words, which he is pretty consistent with. You can even pick up on commonalities in various names. Shadar Logoth, Mashadar, Machin Shin all share similar word parts for the same thing, for instance.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

Oh god, for the longest time I pronuced her as Eggy-AHN-nin. Not sure why I couldnt pronuounce the W in her name somehow. I blame my 13 year old self.

Eganin is a different character.

And now it's time for!

Wheel of Time cliché corner!

Books Finished: 1
Braids Tugged: 1
Blood and Ashes!: 35
Woolhead: 6
T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 2


Not a lot of Nynaeve perspectives in this one. Though mat still makes a good showing. I'm gonna try and keep a running tally as we go on, if anyone can think of anything else to add to the list, as long as it doesn't get too difficult to keep track of.

Prison Warden fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2012 around 12:41

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Lascivious Sloth posted:

The amount of times Elayne blames others for her mistakes.

Now you are just being obtuse

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Add to the OP if you want, I think that'd be cool.

Mazed posted:

Sniffs. Eyebrows raised. Skirts adjusted.

No seriously, this is everywhere. I guess you could go overboard with those, but I'm a bit morbidly curious to see just what the final tally is.

Wheel of Time girls are very idiosyncratic. As hard as it may be sometimes, try not to think of them all being the exact same character. I mean, there's at least one of them that isn't!

Hey, both Min and Birgitte are very unique! And I like Nynaeve way better than Egwene or Faile

Sniffs, Eyebrows raised, Arms Under Breasts and Skirts adjusted are good ones, but I THINK those probably show up in the first book too... if anyone has the eBook and wants to Ctrl+F through it I'd appreciate it, since I'd hate the final tally to miss out book 1.

There were three other ideas I had, but they don't show up 'till later books. I was gonna count Every time the colours swirl, every time Mat says "It's time to toss the dice" and every time Rand bemoans all the women he's killed, though I'm still undecided on that last one. I considered tallying every time Faile is an insufferable bitch-queen, but I think that would definitely break the tables.

I can add Mat speaking the old tongue no problem, because I distinctly remember it only happens twice in EoTW, so I think I'll add that in.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Well, there are other factors too but One of the characters goes completely loving insane, which I'm convinced is at least partially to do with all the pressures and stuff on him in this book onwards. I mean, Perrin and Mat and such were always kinda interested in leaving the Two Rivers, and Mat's outright said in later books he couldn't go back, but Rand has a clear Just Wants To Raise Sheep attitude right from the get go.

Just Winternight even is pretty hosed up, for a random schlub farmer. The main thing that's always confused me about the Ways though is, why weren't the ways already a thing in the Age of Legends? I mean, I guess maybe they just Travelled everywhere, but not everyone was an Aes Sedai. Or maybe they had a better system of instantaneous teleporters or something that got destroyed in the War of Power and couldn't be duplicated using only one half of the True Source.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


omnibobb posted:

In the Age of Legends, they had sho-wings(?)/airplanes for general everyday travel. For important tasks, I assumed they had channelers whose job it was was to open traveling door thingies.

Yeah... I dunno I just assumed that in a world where instant portal-wise teleportation is around, there would be some sort of mass transit system utilising it BEFORE the world went to hell in a handbasket

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


berenzen posted:

Probably because it was unreliable, when you have aeroplanes that can take you anywhere in less than a day, why would you want a system of portals that still takes days to walk somewhere. Once the world went FUBAR, the male Aes Sedai realized that planes, trains and automobiles were out, so they developed a non-tech based solution for quicker travel for the Ogier.

Oh, I certainly understand why they didn't have the Ways, I was referring more to some kind of ter'angreal that links two places via gateway permanently, or something like that. Or even an archway that is capable of creating a gateway such as that on command, in a kind of "Portal Station", linking major cities together to some kind of transport hub and such. I mean, we know they can create ter'angreals that link certain places by portals, you would think doing so to somewhere else in the real world would be easier than another plane of reality.

I don't think they would just say "lets not bother with a better method when we have Concorde", that's not really how transport works. It'd be like people saying "why invent the train when a horse can get you there in time? And we know some kind of teleportation is in this book even in Eye of the World, since Moirane alludes to Travelling, Ishamael teleports into and away from lews Therin's house in the prologue, and Rand teleports all over the shop when in his Eye of The World powertrip / Learning to Channel drunken fever dream.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


cryptoclastic posted:

Okay, so I just finished Eye of the World, and there are some things I'm unclear about. I've read the series before, but I've never understood some things about the fight at the end with Aginor/Ba'alzamon.

Firstly, I read a chapter summary and apparently Aginor is trying to draw the power from the Eye of the World. I never really caught this. Once I know that's actually what's going on, I'm assuming that's what the white lines are leading from his body, and that Rand latches onto himself.

Second, the whole bit with Tarwin's Gap. I've never been completely clear on this. Rand is obviously there, as Agelmar says he saw a man there doing things that no man should be doing. So Rand traveled away from Aginor to that area, laid some waste, and came back?

Next, a voice tells Rand to go somewhere. Is this the first time Lews Therin is yelling at him? Anyway, Rand goes and finds Ba'alzamon. Where is this? It's the area from their dreams, but is it actually back on the hilltop, and just an illusion? Is it an actual place? Did he enter the World of Dreams?

Lastly, I THINK Aginor is dead at this point, set aflame from pulling too much power. So, what I never understood is, who is this Ba'alzamon? In one dream he leads you to believe that it is Ishamael, but the other characters refer to Ba'alzamon as if it's the name of the Dark One. So what's going on there? This is the single most confusing part of the whole series to me, honestly. I still have never understood who dies there.

It's been too long since I originally read this book, but this one chapter still seems to have confused me just as much as the first time I read it.

People have already answered these pretty well, but I'll just add one or two things

1. Aginor and Balthamel are clearly after the Eye of the World. It contains enough power to break the dark one's seal after all, and besides that, just contains a CRAPLOAD of power. The kind of thing Rand does at the end where he annihilates the Trolloc army is pretty drat impressive. Rand is the strongest single channeler in the series and when he does a similar feat in book 13 (with an angreal I think) he exhausts himself. I'm not sure on the size disparity but I think the armies were about equal. Beyond that, all the male forsaken have to channel saidin through a bond with the dark one, so they aren't corrupted by the taint, Aginor wanted the Eye of the World so he could channel without the Dark One knowing what he was doing also

2. Yeah. The whole sequence is pretty confusing, which I think is partially intentional. Moirane says when someone starts to channel "the fever and the touching of the true source come at practically the same time". Rand is pretty clearly in a confused fever-dream state the entire time here.

3. As has been said it's definitely Ishamael, this is outright confirmed by Book 3. What Rand cut in his fight with him, the black cord stretching away from him, was his Bond to the Dark One that allowed him to channel the power untainted and touch the True Power at all. He does the same to another forsaken later (Asmodean, I think?). They were pretty definitely fighting in the world of dreams. When Rand opens a gate to enter Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh when fighting Rahvin (I think) he explicately says that he remembers doing the same thing in his battle at Tarwin's gap

Starting to look like a CIA document here. My biggest hang up is all the talk of Aginor being "not far behind Ishamael and the Dragon in terms of power". Given what we learn later this is likely pretty untrue. I think Aginor is probably just full of himself and Moirane's info is wrong

That reminds me, while Moirane is pretty weak compared to the Forsaken and Nynaeve and Rand and some of the other channelers who show up later in the series, am I right in my remembering that she is basically one of the strongest Aes Sedai in the White Tower? I know there is Cadsuane, and a few strong women in new Spring who wind up dead but I think she is pretty high up there by the standards of the Tower.

Ishamael was pretty much Merlin to hawkwing's King Arthur, whispering in his ear, sowing distrust and such, against the White Tower. I think Ishamael was allowed to affect the pattern in cycles of 1000 years, with every time lasting 40 years or so.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Willie Tomg posted:

Note: after the fanfuckingtastic prologue the first couple chapters of wacky oops-shoulda-left-town-a-month-ago-now-im-hiding-from-nobility-and-honored-guests-in-their-own-castle hijinx do not, in fact, rock. But it gets way better really quick!

One thing I always felt was a bit of a missed opportunity is, when Rand is meeting the Amyrlin Seat, he does a lot of borderlander stuff, but then he does this cool kind of ritual where he accepts water and then sprinkles a few drops on the floor and says (paraphrased) "The Land Thirsts". I was convinced, (since it's fairly obvious if you pay any degree of attention that Rand is an Aielman) that that was gonna show up later as an Aiel custom, showing off more of Lan's world knowledge and just loving with Siuan even more. Sadly that little tidbit is never seen again, in my recollection.

Prison Warden fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2012 around 20:24

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


DrGonzo90 posted:

e:\/\/\/ OK that makes some sense. Most of my confusion came from the fact that Aginor and Rand both had the white cords, it wasn't really obvious why that was the case but I get it now.

The one power doesn't really have a colour, per se. I always (in my brain) equated the different flows of the One Power to have different colours to the perception of the channeler, fire being red and water blue etc. so I think White would make sense as all the colours blending together.

I think the reason why the symbol of the Aes Sedai is black and white is implied to be because when cuendillar is forged using saidar, the object turns white and when it is forged using saidin it turns black. Or, y'know. It could just be symbolic.

The whole meaning behind the black cord isn't really clear for a few more books anyways.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


I don't know if it has come up yet, but bear in mind that Aes Sedai do not lie. Oh they twist words all the time, but they are physically incapable of telling an outright lie. Obviously this wouldnt work for the Black Ajah, keeping themselves hidden. If you catch an Aes Sedai character outright lying at any point, you have found your Darkfriend

Just to make the reading experience a little more fun.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


berenzen posted:

I disagree Galad's chapters are actually quite interesting. Gawyn's chapters though... he just comes off as a spoiled, whiny brat.

Also, there are something like 200 named characters added in each book, and if they don't die off, you can expect to see them in later novel.

Galad's last name is Damodred

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Probably, yeah, it was the Creator telling everybody they have to go play over there, but that's probably the single weirdest and most ambiguously-interpreted moment in the whole series to date; it's sortof the Tom Bombadil of WoT, an ambiguous appearance by a maybe-Creator that mostly happened because it's the first book and stuff wasn't completely worked out yet. (Similarly, the Old Tongue passages in Eye tend to be "off" when compared to the old tongue in later books -- Jordan explained it in-universe by saying they were idiomatic useages, etc., but basically it was really first-book-itis.

Best solution; accept that it's a moment you don't fully understand because the POV character didn't fully grok it either.

I usually rationalise it to myself as Rand is at his final learning-contact with the True Source, where the fever and the touching come at the same time, and he is pretty much out of his gourd for the whole final confrontation with Ba'alzamon

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

Crossposting from the book 13 thread.

A Memory of Light will release on January 8, 2013

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/02/th...-set?WT.mc_id=0

Well at least we can now re-calculate how much we have to read each week in order to meet the deadline.

Well poo poo, guess I'll have to schlep over to a publishing house or something in the post-apocalyptic wasteland in order to see how the story ends.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Kruller posted:

Different planets, though. That's important. Warbreaker is okay as a book, but it is very obviously one of his earliest attempts at a novel. Parts of it are way too fast, parts are way too slow, and I personally found one of the characters completely boring, and did not enjoy the chapters focused on that character.

Maybe Elantris? I certainly wouldn't recommend Way of Kings (it's a great book, but it's long as hell) or any of the Mistborn books, since they are part of a series.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Yarrbossa posted:

As a sidenote, while I'm waiting for my new books to come in...can anyone tell me what books the (book 3-4? minor-spoilers?)Aelfinn/Eelfinn stuff happened with Mat and Rand? I know it happens at two different points, but I'd like to reread those parts while I'm waiting.

It's definitely book 4, as The end of book 3 is the taking of the stone, and the end of book 4 is at Rhuidean.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


wellwhoopdedooo posted:

I envy the hell out of you, I still remember my first reading. You're past most of the confusing-as-gently caress poo poo and on to the pure awesomeness of books 3-6.

after that, bear with 7-10. They're just not the 100% HOLY poo poo WOW WHAT THE gently caress OH GOD THEY'RE hosed OH gently caress THAT'S AWESOME that the first few get you used to. They're not as bad as most people say though, and they give you a ridiculous amount of context for the return to HOLY poo poo WOW WHAT THE gently caress OH GOD in book 11.

Man, 11 was awesome, I don't care what anyone says

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


I am kind of behind, due to shenanigans, or I'd have said so already but for those of you on Book 3: Pay close attention to Mat's POV chapters. In making up for not being a perspective character for the first two books, he proceeds to do AT LEAST one incredibly badass thing every time he grabs the spotlight. Count 'em. Mat is the best character.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

Did they ever explain why it takes 13 Aes Sedai and 13 Myrdraal, other than it just does?

13 is the biggest circle you can make without including a man, probably something to do with that. And yeah, I think they use the Myrdrall like an angreal or something. It's never really been elaborated on as far as I recall, since none of the main characters are dreadlords.

Prison Warden fucked around with this message at Feb 28, 2012 around 14:26

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


I liked all the people coming back and being important because it plays into the whole idea of Taveren. incidental people that the 3 main dudes meet become tangled in the pattern they weave around themselves, they start to attract followers to them who are big loving deals in and of themselves and even some random farmer met on a road, or some girl in a house Rand and Mat stay in for one night have their lives turned upside down just by the presence of these people.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Yeah, keeping stuff spoiler tagged is vital here. I'm sure there are quite a few people here reading the series for the first time, going by all the posts in the thread.

I think it is actually possible to work out verin is Black Ajah by info in Book 2 alone. When verin meets up with those hunting the horn, I think she very explicately says "Moiraine sent me". And then later Moirane very certainly says "I didn't send Verin". There has to be a lie on one end there, or a forsaken disguising him/herself as verin I guess, but occams razor. Of course, the spoiler about Verin is more than just that revelation

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Mentioning the specific book for spoilers is a good idea, I suppose. I was trying to avoid drawing attention back to the whole Verin thing, but I guess the cat is out of the bag anyways

It's that time again! With updated stats on the first book even!

Wheel of Time cliché corner!

Eye of The World

Braids Tugged: 1
Blood and Ashes!: 35
Woolhead: 6
T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 2
Bad case of the Sniff-les: 10
Dresses creased, needed smoothing: 0
Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: 0

-------------

The Great Hunt

Braids Tugged: 0
Blood and Ashes!: 6
Woolhead: 8
T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 0
Bad case of the Sniff-les: 14
The invention of the ironing board cannot come quick enough for all these rumply clothes: 6
Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: 0

-------------

Variance:

Braids Tugged: -1
Blood and Ashes!: -29
Woolhead: +2
T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: -2
Bad case of the Sniff-les: +4
Dresses creased, needed smoothing: +6
Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: --

-------------

Total:

Books Finished: 2
Braids Tugged: 1
Blood and Ashes!: 41
Woolhead: 14
T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 2
Bad case of the Sniff-les: 24
Dresses creased, needed smoothing: 0
Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: 0


Some of the more famous clichés aren't in full force yet, or havent even come up! Fear not, the smoothing, braid tugging and arm folding seems to be making a fair showing in book 3 so far. And Mat has perspectives now, so his old tongue should be showing strong. And with Mat perspectives we can add Mat's catchphrase to the list! Exciting times ahead, peeps!

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Cartoon Man posted:

I'd forgotten most of the chapters where the Supergirls travel south to Tear. Holy crap do they all act bitchy to each other most of the time. Also where the gently caress did Nynaeve learn to Balefire somebody out of the blue? Though I guess this is the first of many many things she will rediscover how to channel before her story arc is done.

Welcome to the female characters in the Wheel of Time! Only through bitching and passive-aggressiveness can women ever achieve anything, according to RJ

Book 5/6 spoilers: A lot of channelers start to do this as the series goes on, where they just pull new weaves seemingly out of their rear end. The difference in ability between the weaker and stronger channellers is kinda ridiculous, weaker ones can struggle to pick up simple things, while the stronger ones just invent 15 new weaves that they never even dreamed of in the Age of Legends, on raw instinct. Nynaeve and Rand do it the most, though since Rand doesn't have a teacher everything he is doing with the one power until book 5 is this, I guess. At least Rand kinda has an excuse for doing this, since he begins actively being taught weaves by his previous life, who was the leader/ most powerful of the Aes Sedai back then. The other main example I can think of is Aviendha discovering how to travel through sheer tsundere-ness.

Basically, it's really no surprise that the Forsaken think the modern Aes Sedai are all terrible at their jobs.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Neurosis posted:

Yeah, I know, it's pedantic, but these things are noticable when you're reading through the books quickly. The other thing that stuck out being Verin's age making no sense, since she has grey in her hair but was a novice with Siuan, and Siuan was only in her 40s in Eye of the World.

Verin wasn't a novice with Siuan Moirane specifically remembers that she used to order the cooks to leave sweets out for her and Suian when they were novices.

Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


veekie posted:

I think shes actually using weak Compulsion on them the whole time, since everyone starts acting counter to the norm around her. Except Rand is so bloody contrary and stubborn that lesser forms of Compulsion isn't getting her anywhere.

I think the biggest support of this is that It isn't just men feeling attracted to her or anything like that; when Egwene sees her she describes feeling "less than" her, she even starts ascribing things like "can probably use more of the one power than I can", and such (I think this is before she can reliably detect channeling and such and Selene is probably hiding that she can channel when in the White Tower). I think there is also a scene, either in TGH or TDR where Lanfear says something to the effect that Graendal's use of Compulsion is always so blunt and ruins the subject, whereas she finds that more subtle uses are far more effective, which is kinda a big hint. I think it's around when Liandrin tries to use compulsion on her, though I'm not 100% sure that scene even happens, now I think about it.

I think that stuff is only a spoiler if you haven't finished book 4, though I'm not 100% on this.

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Prison Warden
Oct 29, 2011

Everyone in the world should have heard of my feats by now.


Jedit posted:

But when Rand consciously channels from the Eye he doesn't feel the normal "struggle against the freezing cold fire or be destroyed" thing either. The likely explanation is that Jordan didn't come up with the saidargasm until he wrote a chapter from the POV of a female channeller, which didn't happen until book 2.

He is still kinda in that whole "first time touching" phase at this point though. You can tell because when Moiraine describes how it happens, she says that the touching and the fever come at practically the same time. Last time he channeled there was a delay of a few minutes, and he is pretty clearly in a weird mental place in the climax of Book 1 when fighting Ba'alzamon and the Trolloc army

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