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One posted:I felt Elyas was a pretty decent example for how to accept what you are and use the power for what it is. What bothered me the most was Perin rejecting the wolves after sharing that brotherhood and feeling that connection with them. I'm also not saying he should have copied Elyas and lived by himself in the wilderness. Perrin is dealing with some of the same issues as Rand in becoming (what seems to him) a monster out of the scary stories people tell around campfires. On top of that, he's facing either a life on the run like Elyas (who had to get away from Aes Sedai and killed a few of his fellow Warders in the process) or a mindless (well, human mind) life like Noam. Neither are exactly appealing. In trying to grudgingly call upon his powers, he seems to always get his wolf friends killed. He feels the same way about leading men. In the 4th book you find that he out of all the main characters suffers the most permanent personal loss. You should be paying attention to what he does get accomplished even while he's mentally whining about his lot. Dude has a lot of natural leadership abilities and an instant ... sense ... of command that the other boys really take a lot of time easing into. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jan 22, 2012 |
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Jan 22, 2012 04:26
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Prison Warden posted:Favourite foreshadowing line (paraphrased): Rand "I'll never channel again, I'd rather cut off my own hand than use the one power." The best version of that is later on "I'll cut off my own hand before I hurt you (Min)"
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Jan 25, 2012 23:53
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Ramadu posted:I have no idea how you can deduce it honestly. I read it in the general discussion and was shocked. There doesn't seem to be any clues at all about it and I've read the series like 3 times in 15 years or something dumb. Maybe I'm an idiot though. The clues are all there, read the "Sherlock Holmes" treatment of it.
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Feb 4, 2012 18:25
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Apples First is such a goddamn good chapter for that callback to the very first set of prophecies in TEoTW.
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Feb 5, 2012 04:45
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Especially since it sets off so many changes in the Two Rivers.
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Feb 5, 2012 16:41
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Ramadu posted:Yeah it's revealed but I don't think that there are very good clues, I always thought that it was Lanfear because it seemed the most reasonable I guess. All you get in the book is the "It's You!" without any context at all. No, really, all the clues are there. Read the deduction. It could NOT have been Lanfear, because she was already tossed through the 'finn gate.
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Feb 6, 2012 18:52
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ZypherIM posted:I'll support not being able to figure out who-done-it, because when you read the deductions, a lot of it runs on information outside the books, in the form of interviews/statements from RJ. With literally just the information in the books, you can make a couple guesses but until ToM there isn't much of a chance you can definitely say who. Actually you can say with good confidence who it was based on information only from the first 5 books. And the list of potential suspects with even the slightest possibility of doing the deed becomes exactly 1 after the next book. When we say Sherlock Holmes deduction, we meant this one http://m.fanfiction.net/s/4975913/1/ which was written from what I can tell around 2000, posted to that site in 2009, based only on information from books 1-6 and not on anything external to the books. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Feb 6, 2012 |
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Feb 6, 2012 23:08
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ZypherIM posted:but makes some assumptions and uses that to get down to 1 Nothing involving any leaps of faith other than saying, hey, RJ didn't write anybody else's POVs in such a way, so he probably didn't write these POVs in such a way either. And there are a few annoyances in the WOTFAQ writeup in that it refuses to do (itself being a reflection of the altsfwrj newsgroup's wishful thinking of the time) or skips over in the end summation. 1) Refuses to eliminate candidates who were dead at the time 2) Also does not consider for Opportunity (whereas the SH writeup does) that there IS a group of Forsaken who have some amount of license to be in the Caemlyn palace Furthermore, as a final confirmation, reminder that in book 6, after the breakup of the Caemlyn Forsaken Posse, Graendal forms an alliance with Sammael, and in book 7 she rummages through his poo poo in Illian after he bites it.
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Feb 7, 2012 17:09
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No, that's the Aes Sedai shawl test. The Accepted test is somehow fully about yourself. There's no way anybody could have come up with Egwene's test.
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Feb 15, 2012 19:42
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The other thing about the Accepted test that's not exactly like the test for the shawl is that these "visions" are like alternate versions of herself in mirror worlds, like a more controlled version of the visions Rand/Mat/Perrin/Ingtar/etc. had when they went through the portal stones incorrectly. So Aginor in a maze makes a lot less sense than her other two visions, and even less so than the ones Egwene got. The one thing that would make sense is if these visions not only tapped into mirror worlds but also tapped explicitly into Tel'Aran'Rhiod for its ruleset, as alluded to with the test for the shawl. As an aside, any time the Aes Sedai put her in a position to have/lose Lan in mirror worlds or in her reality is pretty strong writing. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Feb 15, 2012 |
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Feb 15, 2012 21:52
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I think The Final Empire is standalone enough that it probably wouldn't matter too much to pick the series back up as an "after school special" after AMoL is done with. It's also really loving good.
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Feb 17, 2012 16:05
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Cartoon Man posted:If you really want to know, He's actually already an officer at that point. He definitely joins the whitecloaks at around the same time the tower coup goes down--Gawyn I believe references the fact that he'd been spending time with the whitecloaks already while they were out of their mind with worry over the girls.
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Feb 24, 2012 19:00
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Yarrbossa posted:Crossroad of Twilight Spoilers: The most popular assumption is that Dobraine and Bashere had the Seals, though this is not supported by any actual evidence within the text. Out of 7, there are now 4 broken, 3 intact. Rand has the 3 intact Seals, though where he's put them is not known. The thing about the specific events here is that Dobraine and Deira were nearly killed in CoT's prologue, which could also indicate that Darkfriends were under orders to try to locate the Choedan Kal access keys prior to Rand's cleansing of saidin. Ultimately, I don't think we'll find out what these events really were. Davram Bashere and Dobraine Taborwin seem to be faithful/loyal followers of Rand, but Rand is simply not that trusting to place the Seals or the keys under the care of his followers. After all, prior to the cleansing of saidin he kept the Choedan Kal keys under wards himself.
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Feb 25, 2012 21:53
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Vaniljcola posted:Fires of heaven: I think Rand gave the one he got from Taim to Bashere. Chapter 1 if i remember correctly Just re-read for that section. Lord of Chaos, Ch.2, actually. That chapter actually does strongly imply that Bashere HAS been keeping one of the seals for Rand all this time. It is also very suggestive, since Taim is the other major name in the room, and he is most certainly a Darkfriend by the time CoT swings around, if not by this time already.
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Feb 26, 2012 02:30
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Cartoon Man posted:Also is Faolain ever confirmed to be Black Ajah? I can't remember if it was just a red herring or not. Probably better spoiler the answer if anybody knows. Apparently a red herring. She's a stickler for authority and propriety and didn't like how the supergirls were treated, first when they were special, and then when Egwene was raised as a puppet she didn't like that either. So she swore fealty to Egwene and was one of her chief helpers in taking the Amyrlin Seat for realsies. Although she's apparently missed the purge because she's camped outside the Black Tower, so she hasn't herself been tested on an Oath Rod yet. But I don't think she is BA.
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Feb 27, 2012 14:25
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Loony theory: each myrdraal is kind of like a true power ter'angreal with universal one power access.
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Feb 28, 2012 17:33
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Prison Warden posted:Aviendha discovering how to travel through sheer tsundere-ness. That and the Aiel channellers who apparently figured out through sheer force of will how to un-weave poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2012 00:06
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Logain (endgame) I think it's fairly unlikely that Rand won't be remembered as the Dragon Reborn for the next few thousand years (like nobody's forgotten about Lews Therin Kinslayer the Dragon). What Logain's "glory" more likely refers to is that he will take up some kind of mantle or leadership role after Rand's death, first with regards to some sort of action (possibly wrt the Black Tower), then most likely leading the Black Tower after all's said and done.
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Mar 9, 2012 14:42
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Yeah, but the mangled retellings of the Cold War are referring to something that's 2 Ages distant at that point. The more important thing here is that Min's viewings are contemporaneous.
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Mar 9, 2012 16:42
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Neurosis posted:Are they? You're probably right, anyway. Yep, her farthest out viewing of any person is of their death.
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Mar 9, 2012 18:04
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You laugh, but that's pretty much what the Acceptatron is, it just "borrows" from the T'A'R and mirror worlds to make itself function. Rand tells Egwene, "Oh that thing? We used to jerk off in there."
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Mar 13, 2012 00:01
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werdnam posted:The Great Hunt: In contrast to EotW, I really liked this one. I liked getting more into each individual's character arc, and Rand's motivations were a little less annoying than in other books ("I need to run away so I don't kill my friends, oh now I need to help my friends" vs "Quit telling me what to do, Not sure how much farther you got, but the Seanchan make a return in a big way and they'll probably figure significantly into the resolution. The Whitecloak arc has obvious consequences that you've already seen, with Dain Bornhald, but it shows up again and again, particularly in book ... 7? Perrin's issues with them are not concluded until very late.
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Mar 16, 2012 16:33
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Neurosis posted:Alright, that makes sense. Still don't think Moirane's advice was in any way intelligent, though. You're reviewing this with perfect hindsight and reader's omniscience. But look at it from her perspective, with imperfect knowledge--Rand already killed 3 Forsaken, Moiraine took care of a 4th, he's got Callandor, who's to say they couldn't have done with Illian? Next few books' worth of spoilers: It doesn't matter what kind of warmonger he looks like, because he conquered Tear, and he's about to bring the Aiel back across the Dragonwall, and he's about to sweep Cairhien AND Andor, plus whatever else. He's going to be a warmonger no matter what, which is the point, partially, of Lord of Chaos and on. For what it's worth, Rand does handle this in a two-pronged move--he sends Tairen grain to both Illian and Cairhien, IIRC, which helps with his popularity in Cairhien at least, particularly after he cleans out the White Lions and the Shaido. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Mar 17, 2012 |
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Mar 17, 2012 13:43
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Neurosis posted:It also takes no special knowledge to know that the first move of setting up de facto rulership of Tear being to attack its traditional enemy will not endear you to the rest of the world. Hindsight says he does that anyway. We're constantly told that the prophecies involve him doing a lot of conquering and a lot of destroying and a lot of breaking of bonds etc. That's not happening by just diplomacy, particularly as they already know there's Forsaken leading certain nations. On the ground, with imperfect knowledge of prophecies, future chapters, the Lanfear/'finngate mess, the impending White Tower thing, etc., Moiraine picking out a second target country to conquer to topple a Forsaken is probably not all that bad a move.
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Mar 17, 2012 14:01
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Neurosis posted:Rand isn't just trying to conquer Illian. He still has to worry about how the rest of the world perceives him. The Dragon Reborn is prophecied to save the world and destroy it, and that's the best he's going to be perceived as and this is also after 3 millennia of False Dragons coloring perceptions. quote:Also being told of those prophecies should not be interpreted as 'well gently caress he's the Dragon Reborn he can just ignore conventional politics'. If that were so Moirane should have approved of him running off to Tear to take Callandor. He doesn't ignore politics. Waging war is a part of politics.
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Mar 17, 2012 14:38
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ZypherIM posted:Doing what Moiraine wants does a couple things. One, it assaults one of the forsaken they know is loose, freeing that land from his influence. Two, it cements Tear behind him. Remember what they have in the White Tower, and once Rand takes out Sammael, produces the horn, Illian would follow him (their original plan in TGH). This would give him enough military muscle to prevent other nations from being able to quickly band together to take down another 'false dragon'. Combined with other Aes Sedai working the diplomatic angle, and the plan overall isn't that bad. A major threat is removed, and Rand would have a strong base of support in each country. Another reason they don't join any band of dragonsworn is because Jaichim Carridin secretly runs most of them with the instructions to kill Rand.
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Mar 17, 2012 15:17
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Neurosis posted:If they were so willing to proffer the Horn a lot of issues would be solved. They might say the Dragon was working illusion, but it would seem petulant next to Artur Hawkwing telling you that that big redhead was Lews Therin. “The Grave is no bar to my call. Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but of salvation.” —Inscriptions on the Horn of Valere
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Mar 17, 2012 15:44
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Getting tied down in one spot so a bunch of Forsaken could gang up and jump you before you've learned Travelling (or anything at all about Channelling, really) is a worse idea.
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Mar 17, 2012 15:53
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veekie posted:The big clincher is that while they knew the Forsaken would be taking up positions of power, they had the arrogance to assume the Tower itself would be proof against such. Don't forget one of the Sitters advising Elaida was a Forsaken too in hindsight, I'd wager the entire 'depose Siuan' Hall was either Black of dupes of the Black. Mesaana didn't elect to become an actual Sitter. Amyrlin, Sitter, or Ajah Heads all have too much actual responsibility to actually feign. Semirhage was pretty much just that ballsy to even get away with what she was doing.
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Mar 18, 2012 00:25
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Mat's exorcism seemed to need a huge amount of brute power (a full circle PLUS Vora's sa'angreal?) more than Healing skill/finesse, which is what I think Yellows are really about.
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Mar 21, 2012 15:49
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Cartoon Man posted:I would have thought that the Yellow Ajah would have set up some kind of hospital system in each of the major cities to help everybody, but I guess they'd get chased out with torches and pitchforks. Yeah, they just let Wilders/Wise Women/The Kin do that kind of thing. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 15:58
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Hobbes24 posted:Book 4 Spoiler: I had forgotten that Perrin gives Faile a taste of her own medicine. That felt so good after that spoiled little twit keeps berating him, not that he doesn't have his own reasons. Was it a spanking? I thought it was the first few times I read it but I can't remember now. Also, the death of Perrin's family is perfectly written. As someone who went through something similar, it is really easy to relate now. Excellent work on Jordan's part and one of sequences I most appreciated on the reread. Definitely a spanking. I think she threatens to do the same thing to him later on in the book and it was obvious?
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Mar 23, 2012 17:10
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Sorry, but Nynaeve's arc that goes from 4 through 5 is one of the finest things ever put to paper.
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Mar 24, 2012 05:59
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Nynaeve works through a lot of her issues wrt. Birgitte, being a blustery coward, etc., Moghedien's been loving with the girls for a while for personal amusement, she turns the tables on Moghedien at the end of TFoH and uses her to come to Rand's rescue against Rahvin.
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Mar 25, 2012 01:06
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Speaking of Aviendha in TSR ... there are somehow people in these threads who think she actually hates Rand.
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Mar 29, 2012 15:16
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The Lord Bude posted:the kindle nor the google books versions of the ebooks use them. The Kindle books actually do use them, but it seems like the old art gets cached depending on when you downloaded the ebook.
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Apr 5, 2012 17:31
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The Lord Bude posted:I'm using the kindle app on an android phone, and they were downloaded over the course of the past year...how would I go about remedying this? Dissociate your phone with your amazon account, then go in to your sdcard or whatever and remove the cached book files, and re-associate, that should do it. My phone right now shows the current e-book covers.
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Apr 5, 2012 17:56
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werdnam posted:End of Book 4 chat: Throughout TSR, Rand keeps talking to himself about how he can't let Moiraine or anyone else catch on to his crazy plan, how no one will be able to guess what he's going to do, etc. Was he just referring to making it rain at the big council? He can't possibly be referring to Travelling to Rhuidean to battle Asmodean, since he didn't know that was going to happen. Or was he referring to the plan he puts into action in book 5, taking the Aiel beyond the Dragonwall to conquer the world? No. Read the beginning of book 4 again--Lanfear explicitly offers him the end-of-book scenario in that meeting, the opportunity to study with one of the weaker male Forsaken. Rand was completely expecting the Forsaken showdown at the end of book 4.
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Apr 12, 2012 22:11
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Ponsonby Britt posted:But if the world was really dominated by women for so long, then wouldn't the sexism be expressed differently than it is in our world? In our world, women and pretty clothes are linked, because for centuries a pretty woman was considered an ornament for a successful man. If women are the ones out there being successful at politics and trade, then wouldn't men be the pretty ornaments? And wouldn't men all be obsessed with their clothes, because that's what makes them pretty, whereas women mostly wouldn't care, because they don't HAVE to? In Ebou Dar, Arad Doman, and I think Far Madding men are expressly ornaments (excepting Ebou Dar's shipowner guilds, iirc.) so yes, it does happen that way.
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Apr 15, 2012 03:55
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Jedit posted:I'm fairly sure Ghealdan had a king at the start of the story as well, but Ghealdan changes monarchs like most people change their underwear. Well, only since Masema, really. I think they went like, King->Queen->Queen or something like that. edit: that might be a bit spoilery
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Apr 15, 2012 13:05
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