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dusty posted:it's like watching an episode of Man Men: the most awful aspects of the 1960s are still part and parcel of New Zealand culture. There I fixed it for you. This sort of poo poo doesn't just happen in Canterbury or the South Island. There may be some places you can avoid it entirely (e.g Central Wellington, even in Christchurch if you work in the right areas like the university) But these sort of attitudes are every where in NZ society, just tune in to talkback if you really want to depress yourself.
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Jun 22, 2012 02:56
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Varkk posted:There I fixed it for you. This sort of poo poo doesn't just happen in Canterbury or the South Island. There may be some places you can avoid it entirely (e.g Central Wellington, even in Christchurch if you work in the right areas like the university) I know, I know - there's probably equally awful precedent everywhere. Christchurch just picks up more than it's fair share of my criticism cause what with the National Front being based down there and the former Mayor Gary Moore criticising activists in the Chinese community when they started complaining about racism. I wonder how the quake will affect the more overt racist vibe in the long run - you'd think that "pulling together" and all that would help lower the barriers between different communities. It would be pretty hard to yell at someone "go back where you came from" when all your mates and half your family are migrants in Australia for instance. Anyways, just posted that article - it's a special day when High School principals go around calling old boys syrups and soggies in this day and age. edit - http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/motoring/7154434/Boy-racers-plan-cruze-protest quote:Boy racers are planning a "big boy racer car cruze" from Porirua to Wellington tonight for Daniel Briant, whose car was the first to be crushed under new boy racer legislation. Not sure this is really going to win the public over. dusty fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 04:55
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I wonder how many in the 'cruze' were eligible to vote and didn't.
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Jun 22, 2012 05:30
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The car crush law should be redirected at repeat drink drivers. If the government wasn't full of morons obviously.
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Jun 22, 2012 06:22
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Slightly belated trip report. I don't have many pictures or any really that I can post ITT atm. I want to describe in Gonzo as terms as possible, what the New Zealand First conference was like and I guess open the floor to questions. Quite simply, it was a mix of Outrageous Fortune and Goodfellas. If it wasn't a political party conference from the aesthetics of the whole thing Id guess it was a meeting of the mafia. The black and white aesthetics rather accoutrement the whole thing. After a business session I entered the bar to enter into a deep length chat about the prospects of Nationalizing New Zealands Oil with considerable animosity against megacorps as well as the lost potential from New Zealands now 'long gone' Public Works authority. Its something of a time warp. Its a house full of loose cannons and at the same time a mix of some apparently subservient people. Its definitely not boring. A video of the NZF Youth Report is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dskv9mQ3vGA
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Jun 22, 2012 07:14
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That young lad came across pretty well on B-Benches when he was last on. Winston talk - he's definitely not as young as he once was. A month or two back Kiwiblog pointed out that in one speech he read out some paragraphs of his speech twice. What did you make of his performance? I've noticed he'll wing a lot of stuff - and normally really talk well, but then struggle to reconnect back with his prepared speech easily. What did you make of seeing more of his performance up close? I don't see a credible path for the party post-Winston yet. Horan's an intellectual lightweight imho - compared to mad skillz of the incumbent. What rumbling did you absorb from the party faithful?
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Jun 22, 2012 08:27
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Was that where he did the thing about them evil Chinese immigrants?
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Jun 22, 2012 10:33
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dusty posted:That young lad came across pretty well on B-Benches when he was last on. Its true he is getting older, and Im sure there have been a few slip ups as you describe but honestly I don't view his performance has slipped much at all. I definitely don't think there is any significant cognitive decline or something, I guess I view the "but he sooo ollllld" follows in the whole stereo-meme about NZF and old people. From my run ins with him he was pretty onto it/quick with it, I would have to say still much sharper than a lot of younger MP's we know from Parliament. His performance in Parliament is still on the whole pretty cutting. I don't view his age as a pressing concern right now. I agree that Horan is a lightweight, he is probably the most inept NZF MP tbqh. Its an opinion shared among most of the youth people that were there and several others I spoke to. I don't think his prospects of taking over are that good. He also kind of has a weird rapey look in his eye... I wouldn't want to be in some situation alone with him if I was a young woman tbh. Basically my view is this- Succession planning is basically happening. I think the topic is "in the air" quite a bit, people who might step up to the plate are starting to groom themselves but not speaking about it. At the same time, I dont think its actually an immediately pressing concern right now. I do take the view its something of a trite distraction- the media basically came into the conference only to ask two things: 1. Stuff about pension age 2. Who's gonna replace Winston? While the "pension age issue" is current, I felt the NZF policy on it wasn't new and 2. was something of a media circlejerk. There were a number of key headings of stuff covered at the conference that didn't get any attention paid to them including bottom lines for coalitions and also export policy. Vagabundo posted:Was that where he did the thing about them evil Chinese immigrants? Well 'yes'. Im not just jazzing this: There was at most a 15 second digression about pensions and immigrants (mentioning chinese people in that context) from a 45 minute speech. It was approximately 2/3 the way through. Patrick Gower's media team packed up their microphone and left just after that. I swear it was like: "Ooooh, look! Winston just said something about immigrants! Oooh, look! Winston just said something about pensioners! OMG he just said something about immigrants and something about pensioners IN THE SAME SENTENCE!!!!! RIGHT WELL WITH THIS FIFTEEN SECONDS WORTH OF FILM WE CAN GO HOME, JACKPOT Lemonus fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 13:03
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So... it's OK because the entire speech wasn't ragging on Chinese immigrants, just a very small part of it. That makes it OK.
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Jun 23, 2012 02:36
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I don't know, I'm supportive of immigration in general, but it must be watched lest it run out of control. Do you not see a problem with a person who enters the country at 55, probably does not engage in productive employment and then collect super at 65? I mean, we have enough boomers, don't need to import that commodity...
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Jun 23, 2012 04:45
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exmachina posted:I don't know, I'm supportive of immigration in general, but it must be watched lest it run out of control. Do you not see a problem with a person who enters the country at 55, probably does not engage in productive employment and then collect super at 65? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10814888 quote:That figure is up from 31 per cent just two years earlier. But the actual number was less than 1900. Some will be at the younger end of the age spectrum which means those immigrants can hardly be classified as recent arrivals by the time they reach 65, while those around that age simply will not qualify for super for some time. Imagine, for a second, that Key, Joyce or Brownlee had said something with as little factual backing as this dog-whistle. This thread would be making GBS threads its collective pants. People are quick to point out that there aren't that many career beneficiaries as National or ACT would have you believe, but obviously racist bullshit from Peters gets a free pass? Don't let the fact that Peters is in opposition excuse the fact he's still an old loving racist trying to appeal to old loving racists and their hosed up sense of entitlement.
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Jun 23, 2012 06:58
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I've been pondering how Winnies racism fits in these days. I'm kind of puzzled by it - he never actually proposes to do anything about the problems he outlines. He always uses those rhetorical bursts of anti-migrant sentiment, but of policy I hear narry a peep. Can't think of anything he's done per say - his racism is impotent and merely symbolic.
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Jun 23, 2012 07:31
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dusty posted:Can't think of anything he's done per say - his racism is impotent and merely symbolic. Even symbolic racism is terrible and either he is using it in a cynical move to grab votes without believing it or he does believe it but has never been in a position to push any change on it when he has been in a position of power. After all Bolger did reject the racist elements within his own party, and Clark would never have had any of it either. Either option makes him a bad choice to be a leader. Is he a shallow manipulative populist who will do or say anything which he thinks will give him power or is he a racist? But it is unfortunate that all the media cares about is the 15 seconds of his speech, I am sure he said many other terrible things for the rest of the 45 minutes.
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Jun 23, 2012 08:07
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ClubmanGT posted:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10814888 I wouldn't let that excuse his racism for a second, and I don't like the man or the awful pandering party he stands for for a number of reasons. It also worries me that he may end up the kingmaker next election, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. That said, if Key, Joyce or Brownlee had said something with as little factual backing as that dog-whistle, there would rightfully have been a far bigger backlash, because they're the party in power. I know this thread has its fair share of Labour die-hards too, but I'd like to imagine similarly baseless dog-whistling from them would meet far more concern because they're considered the main opposition party (gently caress, I had a problem with the targeting of the Chinese during the Crafar farm thing). It's not excusing him, it's a question of proportion. He has eight seats, he's the only one in a small opposition party with any presence or appeal, and he has a deep history of racism that has nonetheless had marginal impact on his career in politics (which is enough of an indictment of this country). Key or Joyce or Brownlee are figureheads of the government and have no such history. Winston shouldn't be getting a pass for his racism, but saying that people are horrible hypocrites for not attacking it like they would were John Key or David Shearer being racist is missing the basic reality of politics in NZ.
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Jun 23, 2012 08:32
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He'll say anything if there's a vote in it and that's all there is to it really. He gets on tv and old or rural voters will nod their head.
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Jun 23, 2012 08:35
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ClubmanGT posted:So... it's OK because the entire speech wasn't ragging on Chinese immigrants, just a very small part of it. That makes it OK. Its a legitimate point about the fact there are a considerable number of immigrants who draw super and never put tax into it. My Father for example I know could be drawing super in this situation but doesn't by choice you know, because he thinks it would be unethical. Examples from China are apt because they would never allow a recent migrant (if they allowed you to migrate?) or with dual citizenship (they don't allow you to have dual citizenship) to do such a thing or even have such an opportunity, nor do they really allow foreign ownership of their land to any significant extent. It does seem Winston got his numbers pretty wrong though, at least from the info provided in that NZ Herald piece which Im trying to unpack. Anyways, people ITT do see completely set on the whole DAS RACIST vibe. At worst its dog-whistle xenophobia tbh, use language properly. Ratios and Tendency posted:He'll say anything if there's a vote in it and that's all there is to it really. He gets on tv and old or rural voters will nod their head. Platitudinous. You know NZ First has always had considerable Maori support, among others. NZ First does not have some carved out rural support, you are pretty much just making poo poo up. Anyways, just like the media it seems and among some apparently limp urbanites ITT the only bottomline is 
Lemonus fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 08:35
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Lemonus posted:Anyways, people ITT do see completely set on the whole DAS RACIST vibe. At worst its dog-whistle xenophobia tbh, use language properly. Is this for real? Get it right guys, geez Ratio and I don't agree on much but it's pretty obvious Winston race-baits, invoking the impending invasion of the Chinese to get terrified old people to toddle down to the polling booth while he grins like a cheshire cat. It happens every election. And yeah, it is racist.
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Jun 23, 2012 09:05
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Im partly trolling, but really though do you guys know what a dog-whistle is? A dog-whistle is something thats in coded language thats designed to convey a specific meaning to one group and designed to shroud its meaning to the general populace. I.e. "States Rights". There is no dogwhistling here, its a straight up criticism of immigration policy.
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Jun 23, 2012 09:10
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Lemonus posted:Im partly trolling, but really though do you guys know what a dog-whistle is? Hint: the dog-whistle part is naming 'senior Chinese sources' that gave him the insider information
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Jun 23, 2012 09:13
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miss_chaos posted:Hint: the dog-whistle part is naming 'senior Chinese sources' that gave him the insider information Its not a dog-whistle though. He is clearly "naming" said person, if anonymously. There is no shrouded meaning here. If you are going to you know, hurl accusations, do it properly. Anyways, serious point: China and NZ have no reciroprocal superannuation agreement, among NZ and many other countries. NZ and the UK do for example. Thats a reasonable point of immigration policy worth looking at. Lemonus fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 09:15
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Lemonus posted:Im partly trolling, but really though do you guys know what a dog-whistle is? There's enough plausible deniability in the statement to suggest that his target isn't the immigrant family but the retirement system - his criticism is that our superannuation system is inefficient and provides superannuation for those who haven't worked for it (in his words, a Chinese family can "bring in four elderly parents who don't have to work here in the 10 years before they turn 65, yet they will all receive full New Zealand super"). It's dogwhistling in that it shrouds the anti-immigrant sentiment by attacking super, rather than the Chinese themselves - he can suggest it would be fine if those elderly parents came in and worked tirelessly until they turned 65, but a) he won't and b) he's presenting the problem as an epidemic and the thing that his constituents are going to hear is "immigrants are eating up our super". So it arguably is dog-whistling in that it's a very thinly-veiled 'coding', but 'coding' all the same. But hey, you want to argue semantics because you're angry that Patrick Gower 'caught him out' making a racist/dogwhistling/racist and dogwhistling statement (whatever's your poison), that's your prerogative.
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Jun 23, 2012 09:27
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Writes longwinded palpably forced analysis containing many assumptions then says "hey you are arguing semantics". Do you actually want to discuss super and immigration policy? or our reciprocal agreements with them? Maybe compare and contrast it with other countries? Or is THATS RACIST the bottom line of the conversation for you? Anyways, Im just glad to say my Dad who is a recent immigrant isn't drawing super in this country, even when he could. Lemonus fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 09:36
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miss_chaos posted:Is this for real? Get it right guys, geez I went to a museum today which talked about the introduction of superannuation in this country. Apparently Asians were specifically excluded from receiving it when it was first made. Nice to see parts of this country haven't changed in over 100 years.
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Jun 23, 2012 09:44
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Zephonith posted:The hypocrite I called out on Facebook for supporting NZF while being high and mighty over Paul Henry claimed some nebulous difference between racism and xenophobia which somehow makes the latter okay, so maybe it's something they indoctrinate their supporters with. Seriously? You can't call me indoctrinated when you start flat out on the presumption that NZF is some racist party and starting out with "The Hypocrite". You call me indoctrinated? maybe consider what media coverage you get? I guess Ill withdraw from this conversation. I was honestly really interested in a discussion about super agreements with other countries, or comparing/contrasting approaches overseas. NZF policy is pretty inline with the Danes, Dutch, Italians, Singapore etc. when it comes to this stuff. But none of that seems possible to be discussed at all in this climate. Its utterly amazing how much it gets immediately pushed into the gutter, getting compared to Paul Henry and poo poo. Zephonith posted:I went to a museum today which talked about the introduction of superannuation in this country. Apparently Asians were specifically excluded from receiving it when it was first made. Nice to see parts of this country haven't changed in over 100 years. In the same post that you accuse someone as "The Hypocrite" you make a huge hyperbolic jump to saying that criticizing recent immigrants drawing super is fully akin to excluding super based on race which you can only say "apparently" happened century ago. What is this histrionic bullshit ffs Anyways, far out, if anyone is actually willing to listen: I was there. For 45 minutes. There were a great number of topics covered. There was the one digression about issues facing superannuation and one about immigrants drawing superannuation that encapsulated maybe 15 seconds of the speech. Quite literally at that point TV3 packed up their microphone and left. They than ran headlines like "Peters returns to hard-line anti-immigrant roots". Im willing to acknowledge Peters borders on xenophobic or is xenophobic in his rhetoric a number of times. If you are unwilling to acknowledge there is some serious media inflammation and sensationalism going on here as well though then you just aren't being fair. Lemonus fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 09:49
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Lemonus posted:Platitudinous. You know NZ First has always had considerable Maori support, among others. NZ First does not have some carved out rural support, you are pretty much just making poo poo up. I said that they nod their head, not that they are his core voting bloc. Go tilt at someone elses windmill.
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Jun 23, 2012 10:05
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Pigeon Shamus posted:It's not excusing him, it's a question of proportion. He has eight seats, he's the only one in a small opposition party with any presence or appeal, and he has a deep history of racism that has nonetheless had marginal impact on his career in politics (which is enough of an indictment of this country). I'm seeing a lot of this in this thread, which looks to me as though people think NZ is some sort of back water when it comes to race relations. Are we? What other western nations are better than us? Certainly Oz, the UK and the USA are worse. And lots of European nations are loving awful. Are we really that bad?
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Jun 23, 2012 10:12
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ledge posted:I'm seeing a lot of this in this thread, which looks to me as though people think NZ is some sort of back water when it comes to race relations. Are we? What other western nations are better than us? Certainly Oz, the UK and the USA are worse. And lots of European nations are loving awful. No, we aren't. New Zealand comparatively has an awesome record we can be proud of. If you read this thread you would think talking about New Zealand and people like Peters we are talking about the Deep South in the USA and the Republican Primaries or something. Here is a Otago Vote Chat Interview with Winston, particularly talking about race: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udF9RwS-fAc&feature=player_detailpage#t=18s Lemonus fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 10:16
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Lemonus posted:Im willing to acknowledge Peters borders on xenophobic or is xenophobic in his rhetoric a number of times. Also - http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/family-welfare/2 quote:‘Asiatics’, which included Chinese, Indian, Syrian, Singhalese and Lebanese, were excluded from the old-age pension whether or not they were naturalised New Zealanders. This continued until the Pensions Amendment Act 1936, which removed restrictions on ‘Asiatic’ residents. ledge posted:Are we really that bad? Zephonith fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 10:24
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Zephonith posted:Why is xenophobia okay but not racism? You're only the third person I've ever come across to come up with this argument and the other two were NZF supporters, so I assumed there was some link there. What makes something xenophobia and not racism, and what makes xenophobia okay but racism not? This is the crux. Winston Peters dog-whistles all the time about Chinese/Asian people in New Zealand and cited a 'senior Chinese source' as his source of info about all the - following his line of logic - Chinese people moving to NZ stealing OUR HARD-EARNED SUPERANNUATION. He also has a history of lying through his teeth. Was he making a genuine criticism of New Zealand's immigration and superannuation policy? Maybe. But given he regularly racebaits about Asians and pointed out the Chinese as his source of his information about these "so-called immigrants" in this speech, he knows exactly what he's doing. He knows Paddy Gower is going to run out when he hears that, and Winston Peters actually wants him to because people who are scared of other races, like my Grandad, think Winston talks sense. Winston knows what side his bread is buttered. He's been gaming the media his entire career. Everyone in this thread who thinks Winston's comments are a racist dogwhistle is because almost everything he does is shrouded in racist dog whistle. If it walks and talks like a duck it probably is one. Maybe when Winston stops talking about Asians and Maoris like they are plagarising the good, white way of life maybe people will start taking his claims more seriously. I don't consider 1900 people (if those numbers are correct) to be the biggest problem in the world, either.
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Jun 23, 2012 10:36
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I don't think xenophobia is okay. You kind of put that into my mouth. And you wouldn't hear anyone defending that race-excluded super policy, can we move past this apparent smear by association chat? Its drags down discussion. I was partly trolling earlier, but honestly I just want some perspective on this poo poo ffs. I am supporter of NZF Policy but I am not some partisan hack and I am not going to sit around defending xenophobia, but people have made extravagant smearing claims in this thread. Ive already been made to feel like I am apparently by association a racist. You literally seemed to implicate that NZ First would somehow exclude certain races from Superannuation i.e. "Somethings haven't changed in 100 years" based on a short critical comment about recent immigrants drawing super-annuation and that he used Chinese people as an example (and he did get his numbers wrong). Winstons comments do verge on xenophobia at times. Its not good. But I dont think its driven by hatred nor do I think it is in any substance actually dangerous. He should speak more in generalities but China legitimately is one of the biggest issues in terms of our sovereignty or "putting NZ first" like free trade agreements, foreign ownership in this country and assimilation in terms of immigration. In terms of what pre-occupies him ideologically, China comes up regularly. I speculate he has developed some cognitive bias and brainfarts in this respect. NZ First has carved out a niche for several issues because of basically what this thread exemplifies: There are lots of legitimate issues to discuss around immigration for example but the moment someone says the wrong thing, even if its in an off-hand comment that forms some small part of an entire platform, the whole conversation gets dragged down to things like being associated with some race-excluded super policy from 80 years ago. I am an immigrant to New Zealand and so is my father. Just anecdotally, he could be drawing super-annuation in this country (as well as from another) as a recent elderly immigrant but chooses not too. I would view in policy it shouldn't even really be a choice for him. There are a number of key issues like the TPPA that reap considerable possible harm to this country and only NZ First is hitting on it as an issue. Labour and National are both totally on board with it. Winston might be an old guy and one of his senior moment cognitive defaults is to regularly bring up China when he wants to discuss one of his ideological issues relating to sovereignty, whatever. Its a fault, its wrong. But Im tired of having all the legitimate issues and ideological debate around this stuff get cast off and smeared. miss_chaos posted:Maybe when Winston stops talking about Maoris like they are plagarising the good, white way of life maybe people will start taking his claims more seriously. This is where you reveal yourself to be willfully dishonest. Seriously, complete slander and utterly false. NZ First stood candidates and won all Maori seats not that long ago. Did you know that? Have you read much about his views on Maoridom? evidently not. Edit: LOL, only just noticed the "Maoris". The real crux of this is you exemplifying the sickly, urbanite liberal attitude of telling minorities how to think and make the most obvious/well known linguistic mistake in describing them as a group. Watch that video I just linked above your post for his discussion on Maoridom in the 21st century, then tell me he is saying the things you are saying. FYI NZ First has and always has had considerable Maori electoral support. The NZF Conference was more racially diverse than the National or ACT conferences I can assure you. BTW, I don't view 1900 people as a huge problem in the scheme of things either, how about we move from that 15 second segment of the conference to then discussing the bigger issues? (that formed the large part of that conference) Lemonus fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 10:58
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"... a type of political campaigning or speechmaking which employs coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has a different or more specific meaning for a targeted subgroup of the audience." The "Foreign non-paying senior citizens making our pension scheme unafforable" is coded as concern for our nation's finances to everyone else, but it's designed to make senior citizens feel like their entitlements are under threat from those dirty yellow chinks. If you have ever complained about 'middle class white' people being clueless when it comes to dealing with ideas like welfare or smacking then you need to make exactly the same generalisation when it comes to dealing with old people and their old timey prejudice. Peters just keeps ringing that bell and they keep salivating right on cue, and he puts his hands up and says "Whoah guys, it's not about race, I just care about Kiwi jobs/our nation's finances/ Just remember that every corruption allegation you could ever throw at Key has been proven true when it comes to Peters, usually at least once. Why this gets constantly overlooked every time he opens his mouth I have no idea, and his views on immigration should be given the same credibility that you'd give Kyle Chapman's.
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Jun 23, 2012 22:23
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Jews are the masters of international finance! Not racist, just raising some serious questions about global capitalism, guys.
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Jun 23, 2012 22:36
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It is totally a dogwhistle to racists/xenophobes. However, I would like to get REAL numbers on the subject, as my line of work puts me in contact with quite a few foreign born superannuits, most of which speak absolutely no English, and brandish their supergold cards. I'm not sure if Supergold cards mean they receive NZ super, but if so, there is now way there is as few as 1900.
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Jun 23, 2012 22:43
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John Armstrong has done a thorough fisk of Peter's speech which it seems was pretty light on actual facts (shockingly!) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-armstrong-on-politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502865&objectid=10814888
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Jun 24, 2012 02:31
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Lemonus posted:I am supporter of NZF Policy... What the... New Zealand First are a joke party. It's a glorified ego trip for a known liar and media whore based around pandering to old people with anti-immigrant populist nonsense. New Zealand
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Jun 24, 2012 04:01
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Ratios and Tendency posted:What the... And yet NZF represents sensational value to someone considering the use of their party vote: a joke party wouldn't be as effective an opposition as NZF, nor have their impressive list of policy wins when in Government. A joke party couldn't secure free healthcare for children under six. As for the MPs with him? It's not like any of them are out stealing the identities of dead babies - they're not Act Party crazy, just merely Winston levels of bizarre. I for one am looking forward to seeing how Richard Prosser's political career turns out. Why Winston runs easily disprovable migrant scare-mongering? My guess is the people he's targetting with it are not the sort of people with the ability to accurately assess outcomes or evidence, so probably aren't aware of the cynical theatre. He's not Rob Muldoon or Brash level racist thankfully. dusty fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jun 24, 2012 |
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Jun 24, 2012 06:04
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Ratios and Tendency posted:What the... Yeah, all of this is true, but at least Winston Peters is entertaining. If he was boring he'd be long gone, the fact that he knows how to get and grab interest is what's kept him around.
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Jun 24, 2012 07:18
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Part of it is that there's an edge of cynicism at work with Winston. I doubt anyone outside of his target demographic when he says that stupid poo poo about them thar evil Chinamen immergants thinks he actually believes any of the bullshit he's spouting and can tolerate him in opposition where he's a constant thorn in the government's side, or in government because he's actually very effective until he either gets kicked out or walks out. And the fucktards that actually believe that poo poo? Well, at least they won't be voting for ACT, right?
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Jun 24, 2012 07:34
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I'm sure that Winston Peters' political strategy is if he can get 5% of election day voters to believe him, then the other 95% can gently caress off.
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Jun 24, 2012 09:56
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I see you haven't responded to any of my points about being completely wrong on NZF and Maori Miss_Chaos. I guess you get a free pass for that sort of blatent untruth/white womans burden type noise.Trouble Man posted:Jews are the masters of international finance! Now we have a "coded" godwins law and everything. Really quality chat. ClubmanGT posted:his views on immigration should be given the same credibility that you'd give Kyle Chapman's. Oh ok, so he is now a white supremacist. Quality analysis, not going full blown histrionic or anything. Ratios and Tendency posted:What the... If you keep repeating it to yourself, it becomes true. If anyone is willing to get off their circlejerk for a minute, Id love to actually analyze what their MP's have been upto in Parliament, but that might sort of challenge your committed worldview that this whole thing is some "joke party" (you know, one that has been in govt several times, worked cross benches on stuff like Kiwisaver, secured policy like free doctors checks for under 6's and such) All of my points in my post got pretty much ignored so you guys could keep on steamrolling on with hysterical stuff including a godwins law and comparison to Kyle Chapman. The ladies doth protest too much, methinks. Is my opinion worth nothing? Im a young immigrant myself, I think I have a lot of valid comment on my immigration experience and assimilation. But I guess I am by default a racist old person in peoples eyes or something. If there is honestly one issue that NZF seriously hits upon at the moment that no other party really seems to be its regarding the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement. Talking about a typical NZF voter, my friends long time anti-globalization activist mother (also an immigrant) is also a fan of NZF on this basis. ITT 
Lemonus fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jun 24, 2012 |
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Jun 24, 2012 15:48
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