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Pope Guilty posted:The new Charles Stross Laundry novel, The Apocalypse Codex, is out today! I preordered it months back, was out of town and forgot about it, and came back today to find it waiting on the doorstep. This is the best thing. 
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Jul 3, 2012 23:49
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Finished reading it, pretty awesome. I found it interesting that the Sleeper in the Pyramid is a recurring plot point. It seems like the events of the first two books were more separate world-building--Bob might reflect on those events, but Nazi infovores and DEEP SEVEN aren't an imminent threat anymore-- while Fuller Memorandum and now Apocalypse Codex are part of a continuing arc building up to NIGHTMARE GREEN.. The very ending when we find out that the Sleeper actually did "awaken" is pretty clear foreshadowing that this will continue. Now to hunker down and wait for the next book which hopefully will be along in another couple of years and will put Bob deeper into the fire. I hope the balloon starts properly going up soon; as much as I like the variety of stories Stross gets out of the series, I don't want it to be a Wheel of Time thing where we wait multiple decades for the apocalyptic payoff.
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Jul 5, 2012 07:22
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Pope Guilty posted:Stross is way too productive and prolific a writer for me to worry about that. Prolific in general, yes, but he also has a few other continuities on his plate. (Which I think is awesome for him as a writer, but I just don't enjoy those others as much as the Laundry stuff.) That said, much as I'd like him to just dump everything else and put out a Laundry book every year, I'll have no complaints if he stays on this schedule of alternating one Laundry novel for each other one. TOOT BOOT posted:It'd be interesting to see a Lovecraftian Apocalyse actually occur for once instead of being narrowly averted Depending on how semantic you want to be, the Laundry universe's apocalypse will hopefully be "narrowly averted" in the sense that the Azathoth-analogue (or whoever) won't unmake reality altogether. But Bob is definitely going to be thrown into the poo poo filled frying pan and I couldn't be more excited for it. e: If you want to see some attempts at writing what happens when the apocalypse doesn't get averted, you might check out Cthulhu's Reign. If memory serves, it wasn't an entirely unmixed bag (as genre anthologies tend not to be) but it was worth a read for me. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 5, 2012 |
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Jul 5, 2012 22:31
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Ornamented Death posted:Don't do this. Get The Book of Cthulhu instead. It most (or all) of the worthwhile stories from Cthulhu's Reign, but the remainder isn't made from complete crap, as is the case with the Cthulhu's Reign. I actually didn't know this. Thanks for amending my recommendation! Mr.48 posted:Check out the Adversary Cycle by F. Paul Wilson. You could probably just jump right into the last book, Nightworld, that has an awesome Lovecraftian Apocalypse. I'll also have to check this out.
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Jul 6, 2012 01:33
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Thank God I'm not the only one who couldn't stomach the Repairman Jack novel. I was trying to read through the six-book series that Jedit posted, and the Keep was enjoyable if inexpertly written, but The Touch made me feel like I was reading supermarket-style "supernatural" fiction rather than anything cosmically horrific, and The Tomb was just going to be more of the same, so about halfway through Tomb I just took it back to the library so I wouldn't have to read it anymore. Both books also felt orientalist as gently caress. I'm halfway tempted to try reading Nightworld on its own for the advertised Lovecraftian apocalypse, but I'm starting to feel like it would be a pretty lovely apocalypse that needs books like these to put it in context.
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Aug 18, 2012 03:16
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Ornamented Death posted:edit: Does Declare ever get to the spooky poo poo? I'm 100 pages in and reading about a bunch of mundane (as in, not supernatural) spy poo poo. I mean, it's competently written and probably very interesting if you're in to that kind of stuff, but I was promised some spooky poo poo and it is not delivering as of yet. It does get into some very weird stuff. There's lots of digressions during which not much actual supernatural stuff happens. But the overarching antagonists are some very alien forms of life and there is a climactic confrontation with them. That said, if you're reading it for Mythos porn, I think you're going to be disappointed, and I personally enjoy e.g. the Laundry Files more for that reason even though Declare is, as you say, probably more competently written.
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Jan 13, 2013 07:56
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I wanted to thank this thread for turning me on to Barron. I just finished Imago Sequence and it's pretty much a given that I'll be picking up Occultation next time I visit the library. I definitely see what people say about his work being really weird but it didn't seem like more than what I know I'm signing up for when I read cosmic horror, so to speak. I've read more uncomfortable stuff in bog-standard epic fantasy novels.
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May 18, 2013 07:28
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Dr. Benway posted:Quick reminder. Book 5 of The Laundry Files will be available on the 3rd. There's a somewhat humorous competition underway on Charlie's Blog and he posted the first chapter there today. My copy actually got here from Amazon on the afternoon of the 30th.  I'm only a little ways in but it seems like it has everything I've been looking for so far!
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Jul 1, 2014 08:03
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CuddleChunks posted:I"m reading it right now. Wooooo! I wish he could publish these faster or had more short titles in the same universe. Go Charlie Stross! Well, there's one bit of good news for us Laundryphiles--his blog has stated that the next one will be out next year (July 2015, ostensibly), and there are hints that the one after that might only be a year apart, too. I'm really looking forward to a faster progression of the Laundry series for at least a while, because (Rhesus spoilers) The Rhesus Chart, while filled with the usual great Laundry flavor, didn't feel to me so much like it progressed the CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN scenario in the same way the previous books did. Yes, it did some things that will be significant going further forward into CNG--Angleton's death(incapacitation?), Mo's being pushed apart on her own path--but we weren't shown the actual world changing that much, the way the previous two books did by releasing and then freeing the Sleeper. In The Fuller Memorandum and The Apocalypse Codex there was a sense of the world as a whole slowly slipping under the shadow of some great existential menace, whereas that was sort of in stasis here--CNG didn't become less of a threat, but the crisis that actually takes place in this novel didn't seem like an integral part of the acceleration. It felt more like one of the episodic side-stories. None of which to say is that I didn't enjoy it immensely, of course. edit: Charlie's blog has a good spoiler thread going that has some discussion and at least a few points of helpful confirm/deny/clarify responses from the man himself. I recommend checking it out if you don't already. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 03:02
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Appropriately for the conversation, Stross should definitely be up there, even if weird fiction in the cosmic horror sense is only one part of his oeuvre. His Laundry shorts and Colder War are available online to boot, though I don't know if I'd recommend people read the Laundry shorts before at least The Atrocity Archives--Colder War ought to be enough to tell someone if they'd enjoy Stross's brand of Lovecraftian thriller, though. Also, someone on his blog pointed this out and I love it-- in the Laundry universe, there actually is a very good and real reason to keep track of every paperclip. 
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Jul 10, 2014 10:29
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CuddleChunks posted:Hahah oh yeah, it even featured as a bit of a plot point in Atrocity Archives i think. Gotta love that attention to detail. Maybe it did, the time I know of for sure was in Fuller Memorandum though. Re: the nerd humor in the Laundry series, it might affect other people more strongly than it does me. The Laundry series sometimes gets goofy; however, it never plays the actual reality of the series too lightly, in my opinion. It's not the same type of relentlessly dark prose as Barron or Ligotti, but the cosmos it takes place in isn't any rosier or less weird, it just has a protagonist who's brushing elbows with bureaucracy and programmer culture along the way. Honestly, my recommendation for starting the Laundry would just be to check out The Atrocity Archives from a library, or take the gamble on buying it, and dive in. The Internet shorts tend to be farther enough along in terms of Bob's career that it seems weird to read them first. However, if there's no other option, I'd agree that reading "Down on the Farm" or "Equoid" to get a taste of the universe would not be the worst idea. I would avoid reading "Overtime" without a grain of salt, because it is one of the shorts that even I found too goofy for my taste. It's basically a Christmas special, though, so it gets a bit of a pass on that.
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Jul 10, 2014 22:07
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Hughlander posted:What's the short story where they find out if you die you get reincarnated on another planet and spend your life their screaming in alien insanity ? Probably Lovecraft but not positive. "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" has a loosely similar theme but probably not exactly what you're referring to.
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Sep 20, 2014 21:18
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Fire Safety Doug posted:English is not my first language, but I was using "overcome" in the sense of "overwhelmed by", not in the sense of conquering something. It reads to me like you used the word perfectly properly and God of Paradise just parsed it wrong. 'The nameless protagonist overcome with nameless dread' doesn't indicate that the protagonist is overcoming anything if one reads it correctly; rather, it says just what you intended it to. /derail I had to put down the original version of The Night Land. The best I can say in the author's defense is that it actually seems like the way someone who isn't a very good writer might keep a journal, so in that sense it might be appropriate for him to be writing 'I slept and then I ate some of the tablets and drank some of the water' for the nine billionth time, but it doesn't make it any less putrid to read as a narrative. The setting is definitely amazing but it made me think I wanted to be reading an RPG sourcebook about it, not a novel. Maybe at some point I'll try the rewrite. House on the Borderlands is better so far, but it's still turn-of-the-century purple weird fiction.
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Nov 26, 2014 22:43
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The Laundry novels continue to be worth reading but I agree that the balance between bureaucratese and cosmic horror has gotten out of whack from where I preferred it. There isn't as much of a sense of adventure to the two most recent ones. I fell in love with the series because it took me places like a frozen Nazi planet in a collapsing universe, a pyramid on an alien plain with something horrible inside it, a graveyard where a horrible rite was being performed to bind the Eater of Souls, a cult compound being buffeted by an apocalyptic blizzard as they invoked powers beyond human comprehension. The Rhesus Chart at least had something substantial to offer the Laundry universe, conceptually. But the superhero plot adds so comparatively little to the universe or the novel and I'm left completely blueballed by the relatively scanty attention given to the place in the mythos of The King in Yellow. I'm hoping that this was a one-time deal caused by Stross hanging his hopes on something that turned out to be just a little too much of a tonal mismatch for the Laundryverse.
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Jul 19, 2015 06:51
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Pope Guilty posted:The emergence of superheroes pushes forward CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN- it's the widespread increase of occult power that has been predicted as part of the early stages of CNG since the beginning. I realize Stross tried to do that, but it rang hollow for me. Humans getting weird powers and not knowing how to control them is one thing, but the book gets too deep into the, well, superhero stereotype. The explanation that some people tend to conceptualize their new powers using the narrative framework they're used to (viz., superheroes) is actually quite plausible and I could completely buy it if you were trying to write a novel about how a superhero universe gets started--but Stross is (I hope) trying to write a techno-occult horror novel first, superhero novel second. Given that, there was a little bit too much pervert suit and not enough alien reality incursion. I maybe ought to reread The Rhesus Chart to refresh me as to how I feel about it, but right now it feels as though Annihilation Score is what Rhesus Chart would have been if Stross had decided that the PHANGs needed to devote a substantial amount of time to acquiring and administering a castle in the Transylvanian Alps, just to make it a "proper" vampire story. That is, I'm sure he would still have been able to drop in the points of relevance to the Laundry and the metaplot, but the tone and pace would probably have suffered.Having said all this, every author ought to be allowed a false note when their body of work is otherwise as good as Stross's. He's 2-for-3 on the new direction of the Laundry narratives (vampires, unicorns,
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Jul 19, 2015 17:03
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0 rows returned posted:Anyway I'm making my way through the annihilation score and its a huge slog so far. The Rhesus Chart was similar. It feels like Stross hit a wall or something after the ending of The Apocalypse Codex because after seeing them waking the sleeper in the pyramid these two feel really lowkey and slow compared to the first four novels of increasing tension over who and how they're going to potentially unmake reality. And as I think I said or at least hinted at, this is why the balance of plots in Annihilation Score was so disappointing, because they had that sort of cosmic catastrophe all set up and then it got relegated to a sideshow. The plot with Lecter and Hastur is the real meat of the NIGHTMARE GREEN threat (e: as far as this novel is concerned). The superhero thing has the weight of a minor plot at best, even if it is something that would plausibly occur during CNG. It actually should have been a silly side piece in the vein of the Christmas special or whatever. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 03:27
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Finished The Deep. It could be simplistically, but not misleadingly, described as Event Horizon but at the bottom of the ocean with biologists, instead of in space with a physicist. For most of the book it seems to be more general horror than cosmic/alien in the Lovecraftian sense, but 1) that's not bad in itself 2) there is some payoff at the end with a glimpse of the Lovecraftian trope of something transcendent and sublime that comes across to humans as merely malevolent. I can see what Pistol_Pete is talking about with the technology being a little handwave-y, but ultimately it didn't come close to stretching my suspension of disbelief. I'd say it's worth a look.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:18
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The phrase "shrill whining of a handful of social justice warriors" is a pretty good shibboleth for someone whose opinions aren't worth listening to, at least on the subject immediately at hand. That said, the switch of the award does seem a little bit like pearl-clutching. As far as I'm aware, nobody was under the impression or has argued that Lovecraft's racism is a selling point or that his work wouldn't, all things being equal, be better off without it (I'm talking here about his racism against real-world races that have the potential to be hurt by it, and not the horror tropes that may have been informed by his racism, like miscegnation with fish-people). It's been generally understood for decades that Lovecraft's work is to be enjoyed (by those who enjoy it) very much despite its racism, and I don't think anything has newly come to mind to indicate that he was actually a super duper double saiyan racist.
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Nov 13, 2015 04:29
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Xotl posted:You might as well throw out the classic canon of SF and fantasy if terrible opinions held by dead people are that worrysome. I wish people could just accept that temporal context means something and that these people had horrible opinions by modern standards--because they weren't modern people--and just leave it at that. No one loves Lovecraft because of his ethics or moral stances. His influence is undeniable, regardless of how much of a racist weirdo he was back when the Teapot Dome scandal was a hot-button current event. There's still room to criticize Lovecraft's viewpoints even in a temporal context, insofar as there were absolutely people--writers, even--who held much better views on race in his day and before. It's a pretty low bar, after all. This said, it's an award for work in the fantasy genre, not an award for social viewpoints. On the other hand, there are a lot more prominent minority writers of fantasy these days than there would have been forty years ago, and I can get behind the argument that they should be able to avoid being given an award that reminds them of someone who hated them and wrote horrible things about them. Maybe they should use a bust of Cthulhu, if they want to make it clear that it's about the work/mythos and not the man? I have to say I'm surprised that Lovecraft's name would be shortlisted to represent "fantasy" in the first place. I'd have thought that you'd go with someone like Tolkien (who, of course, had his own problems with racial themes, but c'est la vie) or Howard if you want to stick with the pulps. I guess Lovecraft has the advantage of being instantly recognizable in caricature, though. ravenkult posted:Tim Waggoner (doesn't write cosmic horror, but he does write horror) had a great status on Facebook the other day, questioning why we don't mind having a Poe award all that much, considering he was pro-slavery and married his 13-year old cousin. While it's largely pointless (plenty of terrible authors are admired today) it was hilarious watching nerds doing mental gymnastics to explain away pedophilia. People are flawed and horrible generally, and while it's probably worthwhile excising the worst of the worst from contexts of admiration (  ) at some point you need to draw the line or very few legacies are getting out alive. One problem, is that once you skim off the Hitlers and Mengeles, everyone's idea of who's in their top ten worst human beings in X field is going to be colored by their own perspective. Black authors quite understandably might respond poorly to Lovecraft, whereas someone who was a victim of sexual abuse and knows about Poe's tendencies (or even, poo poo, Lewis Carroll's) is going to have a bad time with anything that lionizes them. When it comes to major awards and stuff we can probably avoid putting a face on them (literally) that calls back to this sort of stuff, but in a larger context we need to be able to deal, because if we go through the canon like we were striking off jury candidates we're going to end up pretty impoverished. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 14:28
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I've decided that for me a huge part of the problem is that pop culture references, memes, etc. are a huge trap for Stross as a writer. His work always becomes way more annoying (to me) whenever he starts dropping them. The Venn diagram circle of what I enjoy in my weird fiction can be pretty big, but honest-to-god Pedobear references are usually outside it. And that's the problem with Annihilation Score--it simply goes too far into the zaniness and kitsch. The best parts of the novel are when we get the glimpses of the cosmic malevolence and the otherworldly environments, but they get vastly outshone by the parts that feel like the equivalent of a laugh track playing in the background. Note that by a laugh track, I don't mean humor per se--that's fine--I mean the parts that make me feel as though the author is constantly glancing over at me with a  face, reminding me that he thinks I ought to be laughing.I think that in light of these complaints of mine, it's interesting to use a couple of other books as points of comparison. First of all, Rhesus Chart. Obviously this could've been a trap to fall into with pop culture references, but it seems as though Stross navigates around it much better here. He lets vampirism be its own thing on the Laundry universe's terms, and while IIRC he does acknowledge poo poo like Twilight, it ends up being subverted and discarded as not useful. They're a symptom of "Everybody knows vampires don't exist," not the terms on which vampires do exist. The equivalent to Annihilation Score would be if Stross had decided that vampires do sparkle in his universe and repeatedly poked the reader with it. (I'm not misremembering, am I? Vampires don't sparkle in Rhesus Chart, right? I don't have my copy anywhere near me.) The other obvious point of comparison is Jennifer Morgue, which obviously is ultimately one big pop-culture reference, but also doesn't annoy me nearly as much as Annihilation Score (though I think it is still my second-least-favorite Laundry novel). Why? Well, first of all, it's much earlier in the series. I daresay I'd feel much less disappointed with Annihilation Score if the Laundry series hadn't hit its stride so drat well with Fuller Memorandum and Apocalypse Codex. Second of all, like The Rhesus Chart, it does a much better job of feeling like it's still playing on the setting's terms. Bob isn't literally a 00 agent by any stretch of the imagination; nobody (including himself) thinks he is one; it's just a quirk of magic that someone can use the shared understanding of James Bond novels to affect actions and events. It stays grounded in the tone of the series. The Annihilation Score could, I'm very sure, have been written with a similar approach, but instead it spends the bulk of its time sniffing superhero farts. As for Mo herself, I really didn't dislike her any more than I dislike any other flawed protagonist. I wouldn't want to be her husband, but there are plenty of good people whose husbands I wouldn't want to be.
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Nov 29, 2015 21:31
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I'm not sure if someone already mentioned it, but Stross actually did a blog post only yesterday, in which he talks about the shifting perspective of this pair of Laundry books. He describes the next book's PoV-- Alex, one of the PHANGs-- as being a spiritual return to the early days of the series when Bob was a grunt in the trenches rather than a powered-up superman. That sounds really good to me, and it makes me think that one of the problems** with the Mo perspective was that it didn't actually address the issue of Bob's perspective spiraling out of control, it just replaced him with someone who for all intents and purposes was comparably powerful, but who wasn't similarly endeared to the long-time reader. Of course, then he lets us know that Bob will be returning to the first-person seat for the novel after that. We'll have to see how that works out. **Earlier I said I didn't hate Mo, but that's not the same thing as liking her equally as a PoV. I prefer Bob's PoV, definitely.
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Nov 30, 2015 03:05
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Peztopiary posted:He also believes that the Laundry is demonstrably in the right and that people are better off being kept in the dark by various intelligence agencies supernatural or otherwise. I can sort of forgive/accept that in context, since one of the major tropes with cosmic horror is that information can literally, itself, be a deadly threat. You know the wrong sorts of things or think the wrong thoughts, and the Outsiders seep through into your brain, especially as CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN gets closer. It's a few steps beyond "well, our attempts at enforcement will be hampered if people know about the surveillance operation." In fact, I'd go so far as to say it could act as a (very slight, and likely unintentional) deconstruction of the arguments in favor of powerful secret agencies, by asking "Okay, what sort of threat or premise unambiguously makes this sort of deception necessary?" and concluding, of course, that it's literally the stuff of fantasy. That said, if he's actually defended poo poo like the NSA in the real world,  For some reason I always got the impression he was pretty progressively minded, but I guess one can't take that for granted.
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Dec 1, 2015 08:13
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"If you don't like what I'm writing now, don't read my books anymore" is also, itself, fair enough, but the paraphrasing makes it seem like he was more  than  , which is dumb
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Dec 1, 2015 21:07
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ravenkult posted:There's really no way to say that without sounding like a jackass. I think there needs to be, though, because--the entitledness of some media consumers being what it is--even a non-jackass creator may occasionally need to point it out to people. But this admittedly is getting away from whatever Stross may demonstrably have done or not done, and in his case I can buy him being tone-deaf enough to come off like a jackass. He fits the mold, no doubt familiar to us from Internet discourse generally*, of the mostly cool and interesting guy who doesn't realize when his head is getting close to his own rear end in a top hat. *Or the mirror. Like in my case. vvv 
JerryLee fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 1, 2015 22:38
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feedmegin posted:Yeah, no. He's a socialist. If you read his blog at antipope.org he's pretty much the opposite of an NSA shill. Glad to hear! And yeah, I read his blog every so often to see if there's been any major updates on his writing, but not nearly often enough to be sure I haven't missed something... so I was just reacting to posts/implications in this thread. anilEhilated posted:If you want class, Barker isn't for you. I find his earlier stuff fairly enjoyable, but it's mosty body and gore horror, nothing subtle or imaginative in there. Also if it's a Barker book and has more than 300 pages, it's poo poo; he eventually started writing horribly bloated fantasy novels that are like 90% pure drivel. I have three real data points for Barker: The Hellbound Heart: Good stuff. Both earlyish and shortish, which might have saved it based on what you're saying. Mr. B. Gone: Amusing, not bad for what it tried to be, IMO. Completely different in tone than Hellbound Heart, though. The Scarlet Gospels: Ostensible sequel to The Hellbound Heart, but shifted the cosmology to something completely different in tone and implications. As a result of this thematic mishmash and possibly other factors, this book ends up being complete poo poo. It might be worth flipping through it if your library has it or something, just so you don't take my word for it, but don't give anyone a single dime for the privilege. Unless that dime is paying your library fees to unlock your account, because that's something you should do anyway. Based on this and what I hear, I agree with you (anilEhilated) that the earlier books are at least a much better bet. If one reads The Hellbound Heart and likes it, then I found the tribute anthology (i.e. not written by Barker) Hellbound Hearts to be an okay read, by the standards of multi-author horror collections. It certainly does a less discordant job of expanding the mythos than Barker's own sequel does.
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Feb 6, 2016 19:30
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Just finished The Nightmare Stacks. Having a Laundry book out every year has spoiled me and now I have to wait two years, I think? At least there's no cliffhanger as such, aside from wondering what will be next in the gradual escalation of the metaplot. That ending though... I wish we'd gotten a 'debrief' like we do in some of the other books. e: Actually, Charlie on his blog has posted that The Delirium Brief is supposed to be out next July. Could have sworn they were going to go back to every 2 years after Stacks, but I'm happy to be wrong! JerryLee fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 02:25
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Dr. Killjoy posted:Stross did say that there would be Orcs. Wasn't expecting his twist on that I think I'd forgotten where Stross said that and I was too dense to pick up on it as I was reading the book, beyond a general "Hmm, rings a bell..." Now that you've mentioned it, of course, I see it. I was at least clever enough to catch the foreshadowing of the "false" positive in the SCORPION STARE tests.
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Jul 2, 2016 08:41
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Mo has never annoyed me as a character. But it doesn't do her any favors that the novel where she was the main PoV character is probably the low point of the entire series so far.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:26
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chernobyl kinsman posted:Years later he blocked me on twitter and sent a brigade after me for making fun of InfoWars.  And all of a sudden, Joshi might be the lesser madman again
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Nov 24, 2017 18:31
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