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pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Hey cool, a sumo thread. Been thinking of starting one for years, but never got around to it. Awesome!

Fryhtaning posted:

Actually, I thought even the juryo wrestlers make the equivalent of 6 figures in the US. The salaries look low.. until you realize that they're monthly salaries. Hakuho makes around $400k a year, plus a buttload of prize money (kensho). So, they're not living in the same kind of luxury as world-famous athletes, but it's upper-class level. Below juryo, there isn't even a monthly salary, so you literally never have a reason to not try and win every single match you can so that you can break into juryo.

Another significant source of income for many wrestlers is Mochikyukin, which is a bonus on top of monthly salary, kensho from the matches, and tournament victory money. Every time a wrestler does something noteworthy, such as win a tournament, win a special award, win over yokozuna as maegashira, even get a positive score in a tournament, the bi-monthly bonus increases. If, say, a maegashira ranked wrestler beats the yokozuna, then for each time he manages to do that, he will be receiving an extra ~$24,000 a year until he retires.

All in all, with all the salaries, bonuses and kensho together, I believe the ozeki are almost certainly reaching seven dollar figures a year, while the yokozuna would be receiving a couple.

Of course, this is offset by the fact that the lowest ranked wrestlers get dick and live under boot camp conditions, in literal slavery, until they get better and can reach upper divisions.

pigdog fucked around with this message at Feb 7, 2012 around 00:05

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Stickarts
Dec 21, 2003

literally


Is there any media/public backlash against non-Japanese participants? I feel like such a traditional sport would have its fair share of assholes wailing about the "de-japanisation" of the sport, or whatever.

e. \/\/ That is partly what spawned my question. I was just looking for more specific details regarding what traditional/conservative Japanese reactions are/specific examples, justified or not. And what does "acting Mongolian" particularly entail? \/\/

Stickarts fucked around with this message at Feb 7, 2012 around 02:54

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!


Stickarts posted:

Is there any media/public backlash against non-Japanese participants? I feel like such a traditional sport would have its fair share of assholes wailing about the "de-japanisation" of the sport, or whatever.
See the thing about "acting Mongolian" just a few posts back.

To be fair though, there was a Scottish guy back some nearly twenty years ago when UK channel 4 had occasional sumo wrestling, and that guy was loving useless, embarrassing to watch, so I can see some justification for taking that attitude.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Stickarts posted:

Is there any media/public backlash against non-Japanese participants? I feel like such a traditional sport would have its fair share of assholes wailing about the "de-japanisation" of the sport, or whatever.

e. \/\/ That is partly what spawned my question. I was just looking for more specific details regarding what traditional/conservative Japanese reactions are/specific examples, justified or not. And what does "acting Mongolian" particularly entail? \/\/

In what little I know of the topic, I know that the backlash wasn't that there were non-Japanese in the sport, but that said non-Japanese were loving dominating. They've since dropped the limit on foreign rikishi per stable (heya) to one, which keeps the foreigners from arriving in droves and forces the stables to pick only the wrestler that they believe can do well for them. I can equally respect the need to try and save some semblance of the historical roots of a national sport (considering Shinto is an exclusively Japanese religion) as well as a need to be open. It's a tricky balance to obtain but I think they're doing as well as they can.

As far as xenophobia vs. not-xenophobic, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people would think. Japan in general is very accepting of those who genuinely try to be a part of their society, although the consensus is that you're never 100% accepted as a gaijin. Hakuho acts more Japanese than a lot of Japanese wrestlers, so he is loved by the Japanese media and hated by the foreign fans who find him too boring. Baruto and Harumafuji are very loved as well. You can pretty much use Asashoryu vs Hakuho as the perfect example of how little simply being foreign has to do with it - both dominating Mongolians in the last decade with completely different opinions by the media.

Gozinbulx
Feb 19, 2004


I was going "who is this Haramufuji whos now ozeki?"

Then i watched.


Did Ama change his name?? I love that guy.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Gozinbulx posted:

Did Ama change his name?? I love that guy.

Yup, his stablemaster gave him that name when he was promoted to Ozeki!

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Added a salary section to the OP... let me know if any other sections would be useful for first-time readers.

Protocol 5
Sep 23, 2004

God created Fenway to train the faithful.


Gozinbulx posted:

I was going "who is this Haramufuji whos now ozeki?"

Then i watched.


Did Ama change his name?? I love that guy.

I liked Ama more before he started gaining, back in like 2005 he was all about the yotsu and pulled off some incredible wins against guys twice his size like Kotooshu.

Is Takamisakari still around? I loved that guy's pre-bout routine.

EDIT: Figured I'd add that since I'm looking at salaries from the perspective of baseball, where MLB league minimum just got bumped up to 400K USD, rikishi make lovely money for really high injury risk and a guarantee of serious health issues later in life. It makes perfect sense that a lot of young Japanese guys are turned off by the idea of going into professional sumo.

uinfuirudo
Aug 11, 2007


Uncle Jam posted:

Yeah, its a dumb thing to dump the sport about, it happens in every sport in the US come playoff time, with star players sitting out.

What I meant about that was that there was a reason that it took 9 years to get done, not that it was right.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Protocol 5 posted:

I liked Ama more before he started gaining, back in like 2005 he was all about the yotsu and pulled off some incredible wins against guys twice his size like Kotooshu.

He's still by far the smallest Ozeki and one of the smallest in the makuuchi division. Off the top of my head I don't think there's anyone other than Takanoyama (obviously).

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Protocol 5 posted:

Is Takamisakari still around? I loved that guy's pre-bout routine.
He's in juryo for now.

Blimpkin
Dec 28, 2003


Hey ya'll, I found something you might be interested in. Also I enjoy these videos of Sumo bouts.

http://www.gravitysensation.com/sumotori/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOvq3-oG5BM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOvq3-oG5BM

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


I'm actually surprised noone's linked THE REAL SUMO FIGHTING videos yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxqYGNvgaQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73f0_izSNHg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5LF8dwd-8

AxeBreaker
Jan 1, 2005
Who fucking cares?

There's one in the OP.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



AxeBreaker posted:

There's one in the OP.

tbf it wasn't obvious or advertised as such. But yeah, those are pretty badass.

Pvt. Public
Sep 9, 2004

I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.

It makes me feel like I'm watching Dragonball Z Kai (where there's a lot of bullshit cut out and a much better action to dialog ratio).

HypnoCabbage
Oct 26, 2007
Cheap as hell since 1971.

I don't know who changed the thread title, but they deserve some sort of award for subtle genius.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



That would be this guy right there:

OrangeKing posted:

.... Which doesn't make it right (implicitly, it hurts competitors elsewhere in the competition who might benefit from the other results), but without a formal framework for the whole thing, it's a much lesser form of collusion.

Which also made me think that if you wanted to give this thread a snarkier title, it could be "Sumo - It's just pigs colluding."

AxeBreaker
Jan 1, 2005
Who fucking cares?

http://www.cnngo.com/tokyo/play/jus...est-hour-004432

It's a play on the article in the OP on match fixing.

quote:

Despite the letdown, the Yokozuna was quoted as saying, "That which was lost in the ring can only be restored in the ring."

And so Japan, in more ways than one, continues with its recovery. One can only hope the same spirit of resilience, so celebrated after the tragedies in the northeast, can also revive the country’s national sport.

For without the sumo spirit, Akinoshima says, sitting on the edge of his practice dohyo watching his athletes ram into each other, "all this is nothing more than pigs colliding."

Mr.Trifecta
Mar 2, 2007



It's been years since I have seen anything Sumo. They used to air the Super Basho(sp?) on ESPN and I miss that. I also remember Ake Bono being the poo poo for US sumo dudes. Who is the best american sumo that competes over there?

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Spy posted:

It's been years since I have seen anything Sumo. They used to air the Super Basho(sp?) on ESPN and I miss that. I also remember Ake Bono being the poo poo for US sumo dudes. Who is the best american sumo that competes over there?

Afaik, unless there's one in the lower ranks, I don't think any Americans are having success in sumo any longer. Akebono and Musashimaru were part of an era where Americans (Hawaiians) were having great success. These days it is the eastern Europeans and Mongolians who are doing well.

It's really an exciting time, too, with there being 5 ozeki and a yokozuna who is finally showing signs of not being invincible. The Japanese are making a comeback (Kisenosato and Kotoshogiku) and Baruto has a chance at yokozuna again. I for one will not be missing much action in the March tournament.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Banzuke (rankings) for the next tournament have been announced!

This should be a very exciting tournament, especially for those of us watching from outside. Gagamaru has moved up to Komusubi, so he'll get his second chance to go against the entire lineup of yokozuna and ozeki after losing to all of them (including Kisenosato and Kotoshogiku who were not yet ozeki) in the last November tourney. He did defeat Baruto in the September tournament, who will in this tournament be most likely rooted on by everyone to win for his yokozuna promotion.

Takanoyama barely hangs on with maegashira #16, so we'll get to watch and see if he can hang in the makuuchi a little longer, and be more entertained as we'll get to watch him against tougher opponents.

Yoshikaze is maegashira #2 this time, so we'll get to see him go absolutely apeshit against a couple of ozeki.

Sekiwake Kakuryu and Aminishiki are always a threat to take out any of the top wrestlers.

Tickets are now on sale for those in Japan (lucky bastards), but we're still two weeks away from the beginning of the tournament. So much waiting...



Edit: hosed up the link

Fryhtaning fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2012 around 15:44

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


And here we go with Haru-Basho day 1! Good thing some kind soul has taken the time to compress all top-division matches of the day into 7 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qe0_WCIeuw

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



pigdog posted:

And here we go with Haru-Basho day 1! Good thing some kind soul has taken the time to compress all top-division matches of the day into 7 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qe0_WCIeuw

Great first day all-around!

Looks like that user posted consistently all of last tournament, too, so I'm adding that one to the OP. Definitely the most concise digest I've seen.

Terrible showing from Kisenosato, and how about Baruto flipping Gagamaru over like he was half his weight? Wow.

vvvv Yup, he's one of the best - had him in the OP from the get go.

Fryhtaning fucked around with this message at Mar 12, 2012 around 01:05

Funkysauce
Sep 18, 2005
...and what about the kick in the groin?

I think the dude on YouTube Araibira is uploading them now. It said 1 minute ago and the oldest from day 2 was 57 mins.

http://www.youtube.com/user/araibira

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Day 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeYvllKgs70

Also, Baruto was pretty much just trolling today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiKq6KYoEus

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.

I'm noticing that the wrestlers never go for each other's legs. Is that because it's illegal, or because it's just not worth the risk?

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Going for legs wouldn't accomplish anything since legs are below the centre of gravity, and they'd get slapped down easily. It's not illegal to grab a leg, but it rarely happens and only in clutch moves near the edge of the ring.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Anime Reference posted:

I'm noticing that the wrestlers never go for each other's legs. Is that because it's illegal, or because it's just not worth the risk?

Little guys like Takanoyama try to do trips all the time because they can't outmuscle the big guys. But yeah, it's mostly just not worth it. As pigdog said, getting slapped down is super easy if you give up your balance to lunge like that.

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Day 3 is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2djLUtQFBc

By the way, for people just randomly browsing the thread, a good way to enjoy the sport is pick any wrestler from the table (banzuke) posted earlier on this page, and cheer for his victory. Or make bets on win/loss with a roommate. Drinking games also work.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Day 4

Epic matches for Toyonoshima, Homasho, and Baruto! Definitely check those out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFs8...be_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsWz...be_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUS-...be_gdata_player

Baruto... even one loss has put him in big trouble now.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007

CENSORSHIP ROCKS


AKATSU is a comedian that does Sumo impressions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvV9KnwlMI4

With music: Sumo plus Exercise... Sumosasize! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bh7qJ_PQk4

Quiet but in a real sumo ring http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpK8ntMyvzA

<3 <3

Daemon Kogura from Seiki Matsu (世紀魔Ⅱ) has been a fan of Sumo for 300 years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss1JAo2wke0

Daemon's best match selections http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbAJ...feature=related

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.

Day 5 is up. Kintamayama's font gimmick gets old fast.

Great win by Takanoyama.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Gagamaru appears to be no stronger than your average 500 lb fat gently caress sometimes. Lot of good matches, but most were the lower ranks this time around.

By the way, we should probably agree on some standard for posting about matches. I don't want this to turn into a wall of spoiler tags, but at the same time it's nice to discuss individual matches without having to be too vague. Any suggestions?

Hurriness
Feb 23, 2011


Fryhtaning posted:

By the way, we should probably agree on some standard for posting about matches. I don't want this to turn into a wall of spoiler tags, but at the same time it's nice to discuss individual matches without having to be too vague. Any suggestions?

Speaking for myself, I think just posting the link to the days matches before any discussion should be good enough. I make sure to click the link and watch the matches as soon as it's offered.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Hurriness posted:

Speaking for myself, I think just posting the link to the days matches before any discussion should be good enough. I make sure to click the link and watch the matches as soon as it's offered.

All right, let's do that then.

Whoever gets to it first, post just a link to a digest for that day, then start open season on the discussion in the following posts. So yes, you can doublepost here.

And if you're such a fast reader that you can spoil things with your peripheral vision even when trying not to, and go do super genius stuff instead.

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.

Day 6 is up.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Anime Reference posted:

Day 6 is up.





What a loving win for Harumafuji, and hats off to Yoshikaze for giving Hakuho his first legitimate scare of the tournament. Was a little worried about Baruto for a bit... he will likely need to beat Hakuho to win the tournament, and a match like that won't cut it.

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.

And Takanoyama's match made it obvious what a handicap his size is, he got shoved around like a little kid.

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pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Day 7 is up

Yoshikaze - Kotooshu match was weird. Yosh lightly slapped Kotooshu's rear end, which made him jump out of the ring.

Kakuryu should be ozeki instead of the two token Japanese "K"-s.

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